Topic: Furgonimics question - How would space suits accommodate for tails?

Posted under Art Talk

Hope art is an appropriate category as this is a design question for some stuff i'm working on drawing up...

I'm trying to design space suits for some of my anthro characters, but I'm struggling with how to approach the tail area. With characters with long tails, like cats or dogs, how would a space suit be designed to accommodate that? would it be a sleeve, like for any other limb, that you'd have to wrestle your tail into (sounds like a hassle), or is there another more intuitive way that i'm missing? And how would that work for more complicated tails like on avians (like my oc) where the tail is comprised of fanned out feathers?

closest example I could find after googling for a loooonnnnngggg time is the dog space suit the Russians used for their space program, but the tail part, if there is one, seems to be omitted from any pictures of the suit.

Updated

single_cell said:
Hope art is an appropriate category as this is a design question for some stuff i'm working on drawing up...

I'm trying to design space suits for some of my anthro characters, but I'm struggling with how to approach the tail area. With characters with long tails, like cats or dogs, how would a space suit be designed to accommodate that? would it be a sleeve, like for any other limb, that you'd have to wrestle your tail into (sounds like a hassle), or is there another more intuitive way that i'm missing? And how would that work for more complicated tails like on avians (like my oc) where the tail is comprised of fanned out feathers?

closest example I could find after googling for a loooonnnnngggg time is the dog space suit the Russians used for their space program, but the tail part, if there is one, seems to be omitted from any pictures of the suit.

Bend the tail?

Updated by anonymous

The tail sleeve would probably be placed on before the pants, though for the less flexible tails like a bird's, they'd either need to have assistance getting into it, or a mount for the tail cover that they could back into.

As far as images go, I found This '3D illustration' and this photograph

While the first one looks realistic, the fact that it calls itself an illustration makes me somewhat uncertain if that tail is legitimate. The second one, however, simply has an extra bit of space behind the haunches, which would all the tail to be "Balled up".

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Okay, setting aside real world animal testing... let's approach this from a different approach.

There are lots of 'different' space suits. the ones we think of our astronauts wearing are generally designed for short term wear outside of space craft. there are other suits worn inside a "safe" location.

If we're talking about a world were, presumably, anthro are a well respected species, and capable of performing relevant science research, they would have a number of studies done on what the body needs -- for example, for us, restricting mobility of a limb for more than a few hours is generally a bad thing. So they'd have good ideas about what is healthy for individual tails.

Anywya, these tail sheaths probably would require the hair to be smoothed down... or perhaps it might be standard for longer furred creatures to shave their tail down to a certain length. Or perhaps they have a "presuit" sock that they put on-- maybe something that wraps around the base of the tail and is rolled or wrapped downward. Or maybe the tails are simply dampened and slid in.

These people have been living with tails for their whole lives. I mean, If a 1st grader can learn to put on a backpack, if they can learn how to put clothing on around or over a tail, they can probably manage to feed their tail through a space suit. But yeah, depending on the setting, they're probably not going to be putting on the suits without help, anyway.

As for avians.. well, I hate to say this, but they probably get their tails clipped. It's a sacrifice, absolutely, so astronauts already give up a great deal to go into space. So long glorious plumage is probably turned into a short cropping of feathers. There certainly wouldn't be much flying going on out there-- it'd take a lot of relearning how to fly, and a lot of space they typically isn't had in your usual space ships.

Failing that-- perhaps something like wrapping tail feathers up into a bundle and feeding it into a sheath.

But a lot of these depends entirely on your setting and techknowlogy. in a modern day setting, you're probably getting clipped. Mass effect would be a bit different lol.

Updated by anonymous

aurel said:
Obviously, you expose it to cold, irradiated darkness of space
post #489621

After some lookups, my best guess is that the problem was never actually tackled.

All soviet dog suits that seem to be only meant to hold tools to monitor their health. Cabins were all pressurized, and they were stuck in a small box.

An interesting fact, these boxes had to be fitted with tools to collect animals waste (and soviets only used females, because they dont raise their leg to pee). They trained dogs to use them. So they seem to have left dogs behind entirely exposed... to the safety (?) of the capsule.

At least dogs had some space, monkeys seem to have had it a bit worse.

All the illustrations are fiction. Space agencies would only bother to create such suit for animals if they sought to put animal into a spacewalk. Which they never did and never will.
There is nothing that can be gathered from actually existing spaceflight, it is up to furries to figure out how the furry kind would do it.

To that, my guesses
No space agency launching sentient humanoid animals into space would bend the tail or stuff it with the legs. That would be too uncomfortable.
For canines, they would use hair ties/cloth wrap to handle floof and stick it into a sock like in furrin goks posted illustration
Lizards are also simple, stuffing it just like another limb.

But after all that, when you get birds and dragons with wings, it may became too impractical to have a space suit. Suit would have too many parts, too many issues like horns scratching back of the helmet, bird tail needing huge designs. New spacesuit design for every species draining agencies funds.
Then they could just assume that spacesuit is an illogical idea, instead they would choose to use a small ship to house the furrynout, giving enough space for whatever species would be using it, and in front it would have a glovebox.
Making the whole design look more like a dalek or repair ship from 2001: space oddysey

You're looking at it from too much of a modern perspective, where extravehicular activity isn't a real necessity. That might not be true in the far future. If we have furries living in space, they might need to be ready for that regardless of species...

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

XXXFentacion said:
You're looking at it from too much of a modern perspective, where extravehicular activity isn't a real necessity. That might not be true in the far future. If we have furries living in space, they might need to be ready for that regardless of species...

OP asked about 'space suit' and talked about trying to find images of modern day images, so it's not an inappropriate thing to focus on, y'know?It was never specified what era or technology level was being discussed. if you go far enough in the future, the answer is "The suit is sprayed on to them in the airlock" or "they put on a harness with a button that, when activated, causes the suit deploy and wrap around their bodies." or "the suit actually puts itself on." or any number of things.

*shrug*

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
OP asked about 'space suit' and talked about trying to find images of modern day images, so it's not an inappropriate thing to focus on, y'know?It was never specified what era or technology level was being discussed. if you go far enough in the future, the answer is "The suit is sprayed on to them in the airlock" or "they put on a harness with a button that, when activated, causes the suit deploy and wrap around their bodies." or "the suit actually puts itself on." or any number of things.

*shrug*

The suit renders the tail and wings into pure energy so that it can remain condensed near the body.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Furrin_Gok said:
The suit renders the tail and wings into pure energy so that it can remain condensed near the body.

Those are my favorite ones. They make my wings all tingly :D

I know some people say it's better to replace them with the cyberbionetic models, but it just feels weird to replace them like that. They're mine, y'know? Even though the whole "fold up to the size of a space-golf ball" thing is pretty neat.

I've heard good things about the dimensional phasing schema too-- you know, that the reptiles use for their tails? It's pretty clever to have your body be here, but your tail be there. It just scares me to think of how easily something could go wrong there. I mean, one misplaced atom and the next thing you know, there's a micro black hole back at the base and there are alarms going off... eeugh. I know it happens more in holomovies than in real life, but it'd always be in the back of my mind, y'know? Not that they've got too much choice, I guess.

Updated by anonymous

I'd go with a sort of zip-up sleeve. Put it on the tail and just zip it up on the bottom end, it could be integrated with the suit or as a separate piece of clothing.

Additionally, the tail poece of the suit could have an extra function, like a flashlight or a tool (though the tail would need to be long and prehensile).

Updated by anonymous

Been a minute since I made this thread and am pleasantly surprised by the responses.
One of the problems I foresaw was that slipping a garment over the tail might be difficult due to the grain of the hair radiating out from the body to the tip, but this seems to now have been covered by the above suggestions of methods using dampening (not ideal as it would leave unwanted moisture in the suit), using a sort of 'pre suit sock' like a stocking to flatten the fur first making it easier to slip into a tail segment on the main suit, then one of the ideas I really liked was the zipper idea (having a zippered tail section so the tail can simply be set into the suit and zipped up) but I learned from some more research that modern space suits don't use zippers like the old ones; instead the suit is segmented into several parts that lock together. I feel the answer of clipping the tails off avian astronauts is a bit lacking as tails were evolved not just for aerodynamics, but also as tools for social signaling (just look at peacocks). That means that societies with feathered tails would likely very much pride themselves upon their tails and not even remotely consider clipping them if it could be avoided. I feel like there has to be some way to design a light weight solution for enclosing the tail in the suit so it can be maneuvered around and fanned in and out... perhaps a fitted piece with some accordion like action going on? Idk.

I'm definitely looking for ideas based around the use of space walking, as in both zero-g for external ship repairs and for use on alien planets of regular or reduced gravity that have no breathable atmosphere. I'd prefer a focus on solutions that could exist within today's real world technology, as the setting I'm writing in is a future with anthro characters that are the results of humans meddling with genetics resulting in the human species evolving to be more animal like.

Updated by anonymous

I also really liked the jab at art featuring tails poking out of the suit into open space as that's bothered me for years.

Updated by anonymous

Haljkljavahlibrz said:
I'd go with a sort of zip-up sleeve. Put it on the tail and just zip it up on the bottom end, it could be integrated with the suit or as a separate piece of clothing.

I like this option the best. Custom tailored based on tail size, one zipper along the length of the tail to make it easier to put in, one zipper or locking mechanism near the base to attach it to the suit. Obviously, these would need to be astronaut grade zippers that don't leak any air.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

In today's exciting adventure of "I could be making lunch, instead I'm doing this..."

single_cell said:
One of the problems I foresaw was that slipping a garment over the tail might be difficult due to the grain of the hair radiating out from the body to the tip,

This is probably a problem more for some species than others. Fur is, for a lot of animals, not just a docile dead sheet of keratin on their bodies.

I mean, take goosebumps. Y'know, the stuff that happens on our human arms when we get scared or cold. That is an uncontrollable natural reaction of our bodies making our hair move. We don't actively think about moving our hair, and we don't have to pet ourselves to 'fix' it later. Many animals exhibit similar reactions -- a cat's tail, a dog's neck/shoulders. ...

which is all generally to say, while it might not be COMFORTABLE, I doubt it would be PAINFUL to put on a tail sheath. Any critter with stiff enough fur to make it difficult will probably be able to correct the direction the fur lays, while any one with longer fur.. well, the fur is probably a lot more osfter and can auto correct itself via it's weight.

And this stuff COULD all be fixed by, say, instead of a narrow round hole, make a longer oval at an angle and the ass of the astro-pants is baggy because it has some extra room to accommodate for sliding a tail in. ... Peopel sending people to space are probably pretty good at figuring out solutions to problems.

but this seems to now have been covered by the above suggestions of methods using dampening (not ideal as it would leave unwanted moisture in the suit)

I didn't mean "soak the tail to the bone".. lol. a few drops of water spread evenly can do a lot to the surface layer of fur. Or natural oils like is already found on skin and hair. That said, moisture is probably a bad idea in general, depending of course on the goal of the suit... something used inside for 12-18 hour shifts is very different than something that is expected to deal with the vacuum of space.

For that matter, repeatedly stroking a tail, or compressing it could get the same effect.

I feel the answer of clipping the tails off avian astronauts is a bit lacking as tails were evolved not just for aerodynamics, but also as tools for social signaling (just look at peacocks). That means that societies with feathered tails would likely very much pride themselves upon their tails and not even remotely consider clipping them if it could be avoided. I feel like there has to be some way to design a light weight solution for enclosing the tail in the suit so it can be maneuvered around and fanned in and out... perhaps a fitted piece with some accordion like action going on? Idk.

well... this is your story of course.

That said, to accomedate the range of motion an avian's tail has, you'd need a tremendously large amount of suit. It would need to be light weight enough that the tail feather's natural movements could open the'accordion'... while also collapsing inward when there is no longer external force going on. As, after all, if yu're socially signalling, you're doing more than just spreading feathers and displaying tail.

On that note, your avian astronaughts would probably want transparent suits in general, as their colors are very important for communication and signalling.

Actually, much of the tail-based communication, to OUR MODERN HUMAN UNDERSTANDING, is mostly based around mating behavior. Most birds flare their tail feathers to help them identify members of their own species via patterns of baring and speckling. That said, I'm sure there are a number of more subtle tail communications that are made.

Parrot owner, for example, report a number of physical expressions of body language: https://www.petcoach.co/article/understanding-bird-body-language-what-your-parrot-or-your-o/ (though I would treat that page with a grain of salt... they describe several behaviors as "happy" when I have read in other places that they can indicate sickness, allergy, or poor health)(no seriously, if you're gonna do anything with birdy body language, google several sources. find ones you trust most. You will get a LOT of criticism if you describe "sick bird" body language as happy bird body language.)

That said, most body language, as described on that page, focuses on head and beak movements, with wingmovements being a secondary and tails being less common. But, again, we're humans. birds will get a lot more information from bird movement.

That said, a lot of animals use their tails for communcation. Did you know that a dog will wag it's tail in different ways to indicate the 'tone' of it's emotions? A recent study showed that dogs tend to wag more to the left or the right depending on their motions. A dog VIEWING this tail wagging also had different emotional responses, depending on the direction of the wagging. So most anthros would have issues with tail-restriction.

Kind of like how we have difficulties when we can't see another's face.

Anyway. If these characters are in the first steps of space exploration, they're probably very willing to learn to have to communicate clearly with their mouth as to avoid conflicts. Especially if we're dealing with a cross- species crew. But that's why astronauts are highly screened and highly trained to ensure that they can get along and communicate effectively with one another.

Of course THAT also depends on how species are distributed across the planet... as well as the status of intercultural communications... and and and and....

That means that societies with feathered tails would likely very much pride themselves upon their tails and not even remotely consider clipping them if it could be avoided.

I think I will take this tiem to sum up the glories of space life:

  • If you sneeze, your sneeze-juice will drift around through the air for hours, or days until finding something to stick to.
  • In zero-g, you always feel like you are falling.
  • “Recently I had to clean up a gallon-sized ball of urine mixed with acid … The acid is added to the urine so the urine doesn’t damage the machinery that moves it through the system. It keeps it from clogging up the system.”
  • In 1961, Alan Shepard peed his pants because no one thought to give him a way to pee inside his suit because they thought the mission'd be done in 15 minutes.
  • On the fight that showed that humans could survive in spce for 2 weeks, they didn't have a toilet. They had a plastic bag.
  • Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong had "fecal collection bags" that were stuck onto their bottoms. These bag also came with finger sleeves so you could help "move things along" since gravity is not there to assist with natural "separation".
  • The same crew, after achieving successful separation, then had to mix a germicid *thoroughly* through their waste, else risk the bag exploding.
  • The very same crew urinated through what is described as a 'condom like' pouch that connected to a hose that would vent out into space, if one turned a single valve. (this was described as "unnerving")
  • Here's a fun fact: the Mir Space station, when it was retired in 2001, had lost about 40% of the effectiveness of it's solar panals, mostly due to damage revieved from high-velocity impacts with frozen urine.
  • as a result, the ISS has a filtration system that converts urine into drinking water. Yummy.
  • These days, to prevent another Alan Shepard incident, during liftoff, landing and any EVA activities, they wear "Maximum Absorbency Garments" ... which are basically diapers. This is an improvement over some of the prior designs that had been in use.

sources and more readingx x

and one of my favorite bits of NASA lore: The Apollo 10 turd

and separately, on the very early selection process to be an astronaut

One astronaut, Michael Collins, several years later when the examination procedures had been somewhat moderated, described the procedure and NASA later incorporated his description in the official record as an example of a “humanistic perspective of what all those tests were like”: Inconvenience is piled on top of uncertainty on top of indignity, as you are poked, prodded, pummeled, and pierced. No orifice is inviolate, no privacy respected ….cold water is poured into one of your ears, causing your eyeballs to gyrate wildly as conflicting messages are relayed to your brain from one warm and one cold semicircular canal. Your body is taped with electrocardiogram sensors and you are ordered onto a treadmill, which maintains its inexorable pace up an imaginary mountain road. As the tilt becomes steeper, the heart rate increases, until it finally reaches 180 beats per minute. A psychological and stress evaluation of the astronaut candidate was conducted by the Air Force at the Wright Air Development Center Aeromedical Laboratories at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. One of the tests was to lock the candidate alone in a totally dark room for an extended time. The first group of candidates began their 6 days of psychological evaluations in February. The final step in the selection process occurred at Langley Research Center where a group representing both the medical and technical fields evaluated the data identifying those meeting the basic physical and psychological requirements. The final decision, however, rested largely on the nontechnical evaluation of the person’s resourcefulness, interest in the manned spaceflight program, and “survivor” instincts. A good number of the prospective astronauts, however, earlier withdrew from consideration because they believed that the space program might be very short-lived, and because it did not seem to contribute to their promotion and career enhancement as military officers.

Which is all a very long and detailed way of saying: If your astronauts are part of the elite (as of 2017, only 533 people have reached earth's orbit. Only 24 have gone beyond low earth orbit and only 12 have set foot on the moon.) they are totally going to put up with some undignified bullshit in order to be one of the few people to be in SPACE.

Am I saying that it's impossible for avians to keep their tail and wing feathers and pioneer a path into space? Of course not. But most of the first people up there didn't expect to come back.

I'm definitely looking for ideas based around the use of space walking, as in both zero-g for external ship repairs and for use on alien planets of regular or reduced gravity that have no breathable atmosphere. I'd prefer a focus on solutions that could exist within today's real world technology, as the setting I'm writing in is a future with anthro characters that are the results of humans meddling with genetics resulting in the human species evolving to be more animal like.

Well, in my opinion, most avians would have their feathers cut-- much like any furred animal is going to have it's fur meticulously groomed (a dog's coat can have a LOT of dead loose fur in it!), and probably shaved short. Most will keep claws carefully trimmed or even capped to prevent accidents like punctured suits. ... Feathers can and will regrow (as I recall, most birds molt twice a year) .. but even if that's not an option--which I can certainly understand, as removal of feathers does interfere with balance, mobility and so froth, as well as the fact that removal of blood feathers is very dangerous for any bird... these tails are not likely to be on vivid display for everyone to see, at best they're in some weird over-engineered sheath that allows for lots of movement.... and taking up a lot of space.

This could be an interesting point for your avian character, as avians may be biased against in most space programs due to the fact that they DO take up so much room. Yet yours is there anyway. And he has to deal with the uncomfortable tail sheath, and the cramped tail feathers, and whatnot, but it's worth it because SPACE, and he's awesome and paving the way for other avian space explorers, even though he's likely to have issues when he returns to normal gravity due to the decreased density of his already light bones.

Something being a complication doesn't mean it doesn't work. MAKE it work. :D You are the author here.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
On that note, your avian astronaughts would probably want transparent suits in general, as their colors are very important for communication and signalling.

Actually, much of the tail-based communication, to OUR MODERN HUMAN UNDERSTANDING, is mostly based around mating behavior. Most birds flare their tail feathers to help them identify members of their own species via patterns of baring and speckling. That said, I'm sure there are a number of more subtle tail communications that are made.

Parrot owner, for example, report a number of physical expressions of body language: https://www.petcoach.co/article/understanding-bird-body-language-what-your-parrot-or-your-o/ (though I would treat that page with a grain of salt... they describe several behaviors as "happy" when I have read in other places that they can indicate sickness, allergy, or poor health)(no seriously, if you're gonna do anything with birdy body language, google several sources. find ones you trust most. You will get a LOT of criticism if you describe "sick bird" body language as happy bird body language.)

That said, most body language, as described on that page, focuses on head and beak movements, with wingmovements being a secondary and tails being less common. But, again, we're humans. birds will get a lot more information from bird movement.

That said, a lot of animals use their tails for communcation. Did you know that a dog will wag it's tail in different ways to indicate the 'tone' of it's emotions? A recent study showed that dogs tend to wag more to the left or the right depending on their motions. A dog VIEWING this tail wagging also had different emotional responses, depending on the direction of the wagging. So most anthros would have issues with tail-restriction.

The tails might only have to be stuck in a sleeve when they are in the vacuum of space. The likely reasons to be spacewalking are construction and repair, so sexual expression or related communication is unnecessary. They can talk over the radio.

Most anthro characters are likely to be "90% human" or more. The humanoid body shape is a dead giveaway, as are the advanced brains that allow them to talk. Their animal instincts should be suppressed most of the time if they want to live in a unworldly environment.

You can make parts of a space station rotate to provide artificial gravity. This will cause feathers, shed fur,  fluids , and other debris to fall to the floor for easier cleanup.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Lance_Armstrong said:
The tails might only have to be stuck in a sleeve when they are in the vacuum of space. The likely reasons to be spacewalking are construction and repair, so sexual expression or related communication is unnecessary. They can talk over the radio.

This is why the understanding of the purpose of said space suits is important. there's a big difference between a "NASA EVA suit" the clothes that ISS astronauts wear... and the suits that characters in mass effect wear, seemingly EVERYWHERE.

Most anthro characters are likely to be "90% human" or more. The humanoid body shape is a dead giveaway, as are the advanced brains that allow them to talk. Their animal instincts should be suppressed most of the time if they want to live in a unworldly environment.

Sure, but humans have instinct too. just our instinct is the 'standard' because we're looking at everything from our human eyes.

Human instinctive body language:

  • Looking away when shy or intimidated
  • placing limbs defensively across torso if uncertain
  • vocalizing in a louder tone to threaten or indicate anger and aggression
  • intent eye contact either suggests intimacy, threat or dominance display
  • bared teeth is Typically reflects aggression, however, is also often seen in play and other moments of high emotion.
  • Distinct body postures can be seen for post emotional reactions. (typically seen in shoulder and head positioning)

We're all just animals, man. Why should a dog anthro refuse to wag his tail or growl just because it's "not human like"?

You can make parts of a space station rotate to provide artificial gravity. This will cause feathers, shed fur,  fluids , and other debris to fall to the floor for easier cleanup.

You can though this has some complications as well -- the rotation radius must be pretty large, otherwise your head and feet will feel different gravities... and if you rotate too quickly, you'll get dizzy, basically. ... It's a good solution and, I believe, our best for artificial gravity, but has some significant engineering and material limitations at the moment. (Author, do your research :D )

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
This is why the understanding of the purpose of said space suits is important. there's a big difference between a "NASA EVA suit" the clothes that ISS astronauts wear... and the suits that characters in mass effect wear, seemingly EVERYWHERE.

They can keep the suit on, but if they don't currently have the helmet on, then they don't need the tail sleeve on. Because they won't be protected from sudden depressurization anyway.

SnowWolf said:
You can though this has some complications as well -- the rotation radius must be pretty large, otherwise your head and feet will feel different gravities... and if you rotate too quickly, you'll get dizzy, basically. ... It's a good solution and, I believe, our best for artificial gravity, but has some significant engineering and material limitations at the moment. (Author, do your research :D )

These are complications that will be faced eventually, because it is our only good option for managing the health effects assuming antigravity is impossible.

If you reduce the angular velocity and the desired centripetal acceleration, you can make the radius smaller. You could simulate Mars or Moon gravity instead of 1g.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Lance_Armstrong said:
They can keep the suit on, but if they don't currently have the helmet on, then they don't need the tail sleeve on. Because they won't be protected from sudden depressurization anyway.

Of course, I"m just saying, that there's a difference in the suits and the roles they're expected to function in.

the modern NASA EVA suit is big and bulky and has a lot of mechanical joints and is very carefully constructed to give the wearer mobility. It's generally very thick and clunky though, because it's meant to protect the wearer from space. The ISS Astronauts generally just wear clothes. Mass Effect characters wear suits that are capable of maintaining pressurization and mobility without any obvious sacrifice to dexterity, mobility or flexibility. It's like a wetsuit that is also armor, and also vacuum safe.

OP asked for a "space suit" which is not the most specific. :) Astronauts don't always wear EVA suits.

These are complications that will be faced eventually, because it is our only good option for managing the health effects assuming antigravity is impossible.

If you reduce the angular velocity and the desired centripetal acceleration, you can make the radius smaller. You could simulate Mars or Moon gravity instead of 1g.

Of course. OP also said that they were wanting "solutions that could exist within today's real world technology," so I was just making sure that they were aware that it's not as simple that. I mean, it's a really big undertaking that we haven't *actually* done yet. They don't have to explain every bit of technology, but understanding that "this took a lot of effort" is important :)

Just like it's important to understand that there's a difference between Science Fiction and Science Fantasy/Space Opera ;)

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
OP asked for a "space suit" which is not the most specific. :) Astronauts don't always wear EVA suits.

Heck, just take a look at Star Trek. Constantly running around in Uniforms, on occasion civilian clothing, but very rarely EVA suits.

Updated by anonymous

Furrin_Gok said:
Heck, just take a look at Star Trek. Constantly running around in Uniforms, on occasion civilian clothing, but very rarely EVA suits.

thats because they are always either on a station, onworld, inside a ship, or dead.

Updated by anonymous

Okay, okay, everyone is overthinking it.

If, somehow, anthropomorphic people actually become a reality, and some of them join N.A.S.A, they likely wouldn't go into much, if any, alteration of the existing space suite just to fit a new species. And the main reason, is MONEY.
Odds are, if there is going to be any alteration, it'll probably be some kind of extra space in the butt of the suit, where the furry would curl or stuff the tail. Otherwise, they'll just tell the furry astronaut to tuck the tail into a pant leg.
Point is, as creative and neat as the question is, Space exploration agencies will barely give it a thought, do to goddamn budgets.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

WulfTruppen1918 said:
Okay, okay, everyone is overthinking it.

If the OP is writing a space fantasy, then the precise mechanisms of how a space suit works doens't matter. what matters is what it looks like and how the characters interact with it. (is it annoying, is it prone to error, is it comfortable, is it constricting.. etc)

and by and large, that's what we've focused on, actually.

If he's writing science fiction--with a focus on science--then he needs a lot of detail on how this might work. Here, he's dealing with logistics.

If, somehow, anthropomorphic people actually become a reality, and some of them join N.A.S.A, they likely wouldn't go into much, if any, alteration of the existing space suite just to fit a new species. And the main reason, is MONEY.
Odds are, if there is going to be any alteration, it'll probably be some kind of extra space in the butt of the suit, where the furry would curl or stuff the tail. Otherwise, they'll just tell the furry astronaut to tuck the tail into a pant leg.

Are you serious o_o

Okay. IF Anthros were real--suddenly, today -- and IF they joined NASA -- which would be a big iff as they would probably not be allowed, much as women were not until....1978, I think? If anthros existed, and if NASA was accepting anthros, they would be prepared to deal with the different physical challenges that would entail (no pun intended)

NASA is not exactly flying by the seat of their pants, going WHEEEEEEEEEEEE and throwing darts at a dart board.

you're also makign a lot of assumptions.

How long have anthros been around? being born yesterday is a lot different from "were created 80 years ago" is a lot different from "crawled out of a hole in the ground 50 years ago" is a lot different from "have existed along side us for centuries"... who and what created them and why are all very big factors in this. (soldiers versus pets, good guys versus bad guys, victims, villans... )

TODAY is also an assumption. NASA TODAY is not NASA 20 years ago, is not NASA 50 years ago, is not NASA in 50 years is not NASA in 100 years.

We LITERALLY, today, have a fabric that can open little ventilation holes for you if you get hot. here's a link.

We have a TV screen that you can ROLL UP like a poster

Who knows what we'll have in 20 years. 20 years ago, having a miniature computer in my pocket that I could talk to was a fucking fantasy.

Point is, as creative and neat as the question is, Space exploration agencies will barely give it a thought, do to goddamn budgets.

This is, again, dependent upon what you perceive the situation TODAY as being.

this is SPECULATIVE FICTION. This is about speculating and guessing what ifs and whatcoulds.

So let me get this speculation train rolling.

It's time for Snow's creative writing exercise for the day!

Okay. Trump declared America was going to get a space force by 2020. Let's say that that happens. (no politics here please) ... Okay. Space force. It takes longer than expected, as you can't go from nothing to "space force" in under a year. Maybe it was created in name, but didn't actually do much. But let's say that it's a popular idea. it's a fun idea that captures minds and imaginations, much liek the original space race did decades ago. It's a fun idea. They pour money into it. They divert money from other funds-- probably military, seeing as how that is typically around 50% of Federal spending. It's worth it, because popular opinions love it. It's a hit with the masses. We all want star trek!

Nasa gets a new leash on life. they get rolled into the military -- and they focus fresh on the idea of making space planes, space stations and colonizing other places liek the moon. In the space of a few decades-- much as how the space race started in 1957 with people landing on the moon in 1969. less than 12 years to get from the first man in space (1961, Yuri Gagarin) to people on the fucking moon!

By 2050, most major countries have space fleets--civilian and military alike. The largest ones have colonies on the moon, while a number of the smaller countries have banded together in a coalition of allied countries to work together to form joint colonies. This is generally considered to be a fantastic thing, as these countries are developing a unified bond together that is strengthening them and allowing them to stand toe to toe with some of the larger and wealthier countries. There is talks of permanent political unions, much like the Historic United Kingdoms, or the European union.

Somewhere in this. Some country-- let's say Egypt--had a problem they didn't realize. Quietly, a man has been meddling with genetics. believing himself to be the hand of the gods, the self styled Dr Hermopolis/Dr Ogdoad/Dr. Tepi/Dr. Atum/ Dr. Khepri has been tinkering with the very code of life itself. Nothing so benevolent as trying to cure cancer or heal the genetically sick, his focus was to recreate the gods themselves. A tricky task, no doubt and his first step was to create suitable bodies for them. Jackal headed men, women covered in sleek black fur and piercing eyes. sharp taloned bird men... They later found whole graveyards filled with what they assumed to be Dr. Khepri's failures: twisted infants and children, the skeletal remains of the ancestral history of a people that the world had never seen. When they found him, he was a god himself, leading a kingdom of thousands of animal-people, and hundreds of humans.

To say it was a mess was an understatement. Dr. Khepri killed himself before he could be apprehended, leaving investigators with countless questions, few answers, and many wide eyed beings who's whole universe was changing before their very eyes.

Some said the so called Kheparians were abominations and should be destroyed.

Others said that they were victims and should be protected.

The problem of citizenship, of if human rights apply to something with a muzzle raged on for decades. The problem didn't, as some hoped, die out on it's own, as it proved that not only were the animal-people fertile, but they could reproduce--with each other, and with humanity!

Some swore that they could reproduce with their respective animals as well, but these rumors were never substantiated and are assumed to be the product of bigots, trying to de-humanize a minority group that had already struggled to be allowed to have even the basic right to exist.

Decades later, much of the fuss has subsided. The Kheparians still struggle with specism and racism, but most civilized countries have declared that they are, effectively, equal to humanity and cannot be discriminated against.... yet resentment still burns in some of the people, taught, as racism is, from parent to child, in actions and words. It's an attitude for rural folks, for countries uncivilized, not for 'proper' beings, yet it burned on.

It's for this reason that the first Kheperian Astronauts were embraced, not from America, but from the Coalition of Allied Countries. They sought to prove themselves to be civilized. To be separate from the racism that had once haunted their pasts. They opened their borders to many applicants--free to immigrate even if they didn't fit the Astronaut template. After several years, and considerable financial effort, the first fully Khaparian crew launched into space. Their mission was to investigate the prospects of one of earth's micro moons...

post #35106 post #1449688 post #125990 post #78514

Or maybe.... we received, suddenly and clearly, clear evidence of alien life. which leads to a reinvigorated space program, etc etc etc...

there are SO many ways you can do this man.

it's speculative fiction.

Don't be tangled up in reality. Dream!

Updated by anonymous

I'm going to start drafting up some concept art when I get a chance, but I'm very happy with how the discussion has been going so far! I'll post what I have when I'm done so I can get some more feedback/suggestions.

I think building suits with the goal of maintaining the mobility of the tail could be advantageous. It was described that one of the fears of sending men into space during the cold war era was that they could get stranded, and in real trouble, in zero-g if they ended up in an open space in their craft where they could not reach any walls or objects. This fear was put to rest when it was found that they could "swim" in space by flapping their arms. I think tails could provide similar advantages with steering and reach.

Updated by anonymous

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