garfieldfromgarfield said:
sorry, wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. i apologize if i came off as being incendiary

I'm also a bit worked up today, but nothing personal was intended. I just find it rather typical in an interaction to see a pileup of inappropriate assumptions that seriously impair any possibility of meaningful dialogue. So if you feel I took my frustration out on you then I apologize, too.

funny thread lol

notmenotyou said:
Do excuse the dust in here. The latest update is pretty straightforward, we renamed the rule to be a bit more objective and clarified more what exactly is inappropriate. In addition to that we've made a small help page to add some examples and explanations on what is and is not appropriate.

First of all the rule text:
And the help page:

e621:Inappropriate Comments

Link

In the interest of the success of the site we do not want people discussing their personal sexual encounters (past or present) or any explicitly detailed desires, fetishes, or fantasies. All users, artists, commissioners, the subjects of works of art, and other people browsing the website all have the right, within realistic expectations, to browse our website without seeing comments from our users that may make them uncomfortable.

Examples of inappropriate comments:

Comments that are overly focused on graphic /explicit details.

Don’t make up elaborate stories about what you wish would happen, or were to happen.

"Definitely going to need some happy aftercare time in a snug onesie and diaper. Don't forget to lock up the young kitten in a chastity with his mouth filled so he doesn't wake himself up from his nap in daddy's lap."
"Fine addition to my collection for erection."

Comments that detail your personal sexual experiences, fantasies or desires.

Any comment that describes your past real life experiences, roleplay encounters, or fap stories are going to be considered creepy by the broader userbase. Note that the comment doesn’t need to be long in order to share too much information.

Examples that will get you a record:

• I came so hard
• I wish I could get fucked like that
• I wish that vaporeon would breed me
• My boyfriend likes doing that to me!
• I wish my girlfriend would be doing that for me
• I want to lick those paws
• Wish I could get filled like that

Examples that (most likely¹) won’t get you a record:

• God I wish that were me
• I’m loving those tits
• That is one hot / wet pussy
• Pump that donut!

¹ Context is going to matter, see the two following sections for details

Comments that focus on a fetish on a picture that does not include that fetish.

Fairly self-explanatory, don’t bring any (controversial) fetish into an image that isn’t already featuring it, talking about how you’d wish any given image without X fetish should feature X fetish instead to make it “better” is always inherently creepy.

Fetishes falling under this category are the generally divisive ones like cub, watersports, scat, rape, humiliation of various kinds, and similar.

Comments that exceed the rating on the picture

In the shortest way possible, if something is rated safe nobody will want to hear about how you’d like to see the character getting lewded or fucked. Similarly goes for submissions rated questionable, nobody will want to know how you’d like them to get railed by a pack of 14 werewolves in the parking lot of an Arby’s if they’re only being suggestive or in the nude.

"God I wish that were me" I don't think this example is very appropriate. is very similar to "I would like to join them".

I must say that reading this thread, I feel like either I am missing the point, or everyone else does. Are we looking for solutions, or arguments?

Because if the former, look no further than right here, to this exact site. There are plenty of posts that some people don't want to see. Does anyone ban such posts? Not at all, there is this nifty little thing called “blacklist”. Don't wanna see some pic? Put it in there. There, done. Voilà. Problem solved.

Likewise you already can block messages based on keywords.

So, I'm not a professional programmer or anything, but clearly a mechanic that'd make everyone happy (apart from that peculiar demographic that actually enjoys telling others what they are or aren't allowed to do not to maintain order but just for the sake of doing so, but naturally those can never be satisfied) effectively already exists. Don't like seeing someone say something? Create an appropriate rule yourself. In the long run it's both more freedom for everyone and less work for the staff.

wlkwos said:
I must say that reading this thread, I feel like either I am missing the point, or everyone else does. Are we looking for solutions, or arguments?

Because if the former, look no further than right here, to this exact site. There are plenty of posts that some people don't want to see. Does anyone ban such posts? Not at all, there is this nifty little thing called “blacklist”. Don't wanna see some pic? Put it in there. There, done. Voilà. Problem solved.

Likewise you already can block messages based on keywords.

So, I'm not a professional programmer or anything, but clearly a mechanic that'd make everyone happy (apart from that peculiar demographic that actually enjoys telling others what they are or aren't allowed to do not to maintain order but just for the sake of doing so, but naturally those can never be satisfied) effectively already exists. Don't like seeing someone say something? Create an appropriate rule yourself. In the long run it's both more freedom for everyone and less work for the staff.

I don't see how that'd work. unless you're suggesting that comments would be tagged in the same way that posts are? because there's not really any individual words that makes a comment creepy/inappropriate so just blocking comments with certain words from showing up in comment threads really isn't going to help anything.

darryus said:
I don't see how that'd work. unless you're suggesting that comments would be tagged in the same way that posts are? because there's not really any individual words that makes a comment creepy/inappropriate so just blocking comments with certain words from showing up in comment threads really isn't going to help anything.

This. And the rule is still a way to protect the artist's work. For those who don't want creepy comments underneath it.

anguirus12345 said:
"God I wish that were me" I don't think this example is very appropriate. is very similar to "I would like to join them".

I think "God I wish that were me" is allowed only because it's directly quoting a meme.

...that said, where the meme comes from is a comment on deviantART that would be in violation if our policies applied there, so...

I honestly still don't understand how comments like "I wish this was me", or "I wish this happened to me" could be problematic and make people possibly uncomfortable, if you consider it's website with pictures about many kinks that you can find here. You normally can expect people to be able to take something if they are on a website like this here and here to watch those in my opinion, the rules are childish in my point of view, and they should be way more loose.

But the owners just regulate it as they want, it actually only causes more suffering, and because of this misunderstanding, the admin and mods will continue to have a lot of work here. Most people probably don't expect, including me, that comments should be so safe, and that on such a website where are massive amounts of porn pictures.

Many people are also against this kind of regulation that you can find here on this site, but they won't listen to that feedback. It could be far better, and user friendly. I wonder which causes more suffering, the possible "uncomfortable" comments you can find here, or the strikt handling with people that will be called to have done that and will be punished on mass, for something the most people probably would not expect to be punished on a website like this.

If it keeps going way, the admins and owner will keep having lots of unnessesary work and punish people for something that doesn't need to be, they could invest all that time and work better and make the site more relaxed and easier to enjoy.

darryus said:
I don't see how that'd work. unless you're suggesting that comments would be tagged in the same way that posts are? because there's not really any individual words that makes a comment creepy/inappropriate so just blocking comments with certain words from showing up in comment threads really isn't going to help anything.

Well, not necessarily; since comments are already made of text, there are ways to automate the bulk of the process. There are already pretty effective ways of doing so, but you are right, they probably wouldn't handle 100% of the cases. (Not that humans can either, but the point stands.)

So alright, it could be a problem. But maybe let's not just give up just because the very first thing we've tried isn't perfect.

In this case we could only use two tags - or any one variable, e.g. displayed as a tickbox - to tag comments in conjunction with the rules simply as “compliant with the rules” or “not compliant”. This of course means people would have to tick it if they wanted to write a non-compliant comment, and those who'd fail to do so would get theirs deleted as usual / marked / whatever. Now this is as simple as it gets; literally one more checkbox upon writing a comment, and one more in your settings, defaulted to “hide” for the viewers' convenience and backwards-compatibility.

DubsTheFox said:
This. And the rule is still a way to protect the artist's work. For those who don't want creepy comments underneath it.

Not sure what you mean? That's exactly what I'm trying to come up with: a tool for of easily moderating “creepy” comments in a way that would give people a comfortable choice instead of trying to force either side's views onto the other (and of course inevitably failing to some extent anyway, though that's probably the least of my concerns at the moment).

A way to fix this issue would be to remove the upvote/downvote system from the comments and replace it with something like the facebook emoji reacts or steam's comment system. Not necessarily with emojis, but with categorized checkboxes or a dropdown menu with options like wholesome/creepy/funny/helpful/stupid/relatable. A set amout of negative checks would hide the comment, just like downvotes in the upvote/downvote system. At that point an admin would be able to step in for review after the community decides whether they approve of the comment or not.

I feel this is much better than admins just stepping in willy nilly whenever a comment tickles them the wrong way, based on a rule that can be bent to however they're feeling in a given scenario. The claim is that it's for the community, but as it is, it only functions to serve the will of a small group that holds the ban hammer.

Furthermore, the artist of the work should be given some sort of priority over their own posts for these decisions should they be active on the site, going as far as having the option to disable comments entirely if they wish.

Sometimes I check out banned accounts to see why they've been banned. And despite a most of them being weirdos or assholes that had it coming, I know there's been a couple that I think were undeserved.

Sorry for odd formatting, I only really split it up to make it easier to read. I know this probably won't be taken into consideration for multiple reasons, mostly due to it being a decent amount of work to impliment, but figured I'd chuck an opinion and solution out there. I like this place, and want the best for the majority of us.

Lastly, I haven't read the whole thread, as there's a lot of people saying a lot of things and am only commenting based on the core parts which I have read. Please excuse me if I've repeated something someone said or missed something that contradicts something something yadda yadda. Thanks for reading my first forum contribution, I'll keep an eye out for replies, have a lovely whatever it is for you.

flunkden said:
Furthermore, the artist of the work should be given some sort of priority over their own posts for these decisions should they be active on the site, going as far as having the option to disable comments entirely if they wish.

I think this could be a good feature for artists who have their account linked to their artist tag.

Inappropriate Comments
Comments that exceed the rating on the picture

Honestly this rule is just the greatest addition of the whole set. It does actually makes a lot of sense.

flunkden said:
I feel this is much better than admins just stepping in willy nilly whenever a comment tickles them the wrong way, based on a rule that can be bent to however they're feeling in a given scenario. The claim is that it's for the community, but as it is, it only functions to serve the will of a small group that holds the ban hammer.

This is out of context for the current thread, but I would like to thank you for concisely explaining how I see a group of mods in a Discord server I used to enjoy. Think ~10 mods for 230k people. I was in the server for over a year, even becoming a mod myself for a few months.
Then suddenly one of the admins decided that they don't like me and they collaborate with other mods to get me removed. Over the next 3 weeks I received several warnings from them, and each one vaguely violated their rules. I was liked, helpful, and engaging with the community until the day I was banned.
I apologize for the rambling that others will see here - I have no feedback towards the rule changes.

I find it odd that a porn site bans people for horny comments but that’s just me. :V

anunusualguy said:
This is out of context for the current thread, but I would like to thank you for concisely explaining how I see a group of mods in a Discord server I used to enjoy.

Unfortunately this trend is prevalent in almost every group, platform and community. It's a defining reason for my anti authoritarianism and misanthropy. People who hold power will almost always use it to serve their own interests, regardless of any outcry the herd might have. I remove myself from pretty much all governmental political discourse for the sake of my happiness and sanity. Politics amongst personal communities is often enough of a headache.

To be honest I don't see any good reason why the rule isn't just a ban on exceeding the rating/being more explicit then the image, and containing certain fetish oriented posts to images only containing that fetish.

So like, no writing vore stuff On a post that lacks an vore related tags. Outside of that I have no idea the benefit of being comments that are no more or less lewd then the comment subject material.

we are on a PORN SITE okay so how tf is this stuff being creepy if I put any these comments towards a art post who tf cares I can't help the person thinks my comment is creepy when I'm commenting on a damn nude furry character that could be getting destroyed by another guy doesn't seem creepy to me lol I think the whole role is kinda dumb tbh I'd see if it was normal social media but we are literally commenting on what's going on in the art cause it's hot if so don't post pirn art I think it's a odd role in most cases tbh I'd understand if you're shooting out the mouth sexual stuff to the user but cmon man lol just remove the post it's not that big of a deal to make a code of conduct over porn commenting

It was acknowledged a couple months ago that you can report someone for consistently failing/refusing to tag contentious content. Another admin actually gave a warning to a user for it at around the same time, so shouldn't the rules and the bad behavior PSA be updated to reflect that?

setgrdgftgrd said:
But it's also why sites like Rule 34 are important

As an example, how it shouldn't be done? That website is a shitshow in my opinion.

notmenotyou said:

Examples that (most likely¹) won’t get you a record:

• God I wish that were me

Okay, small question due to the fact that such gave me a record. Considering the change, is their a chance of an appeal of sorts to dissolve the record? Since admittedly when given the first time I was both confused and slightly saddened at the event. Of course, it was years ago. If nothing could or should be done, that is understandable.

kemonophonic said:
Your neutral record is over 2 years old and can be removed by asking an admin.

forum #323051

Ah, that is wonderful news. Thank you very much for answering. I'll get to figuring out how to do so right now.

While I do appreciate the revision of the commenting rule and that it is being looked into, I still have my doubts as yes, I get that it is positive for the site and all that but we must take into account that such a revised rule isn't without its flaws. The moderation team is quite picky with what comments that are seen as irrelevant, creepy, inappropriate, etc. Still though, a good decision to revise the commenting rule but it still needs some work.

notmenotyou said:
Do excuse the dust in here. The latest update is pretty straightforward, we renamed the rule to be a bit more objective and clarified more what exactly is inappropriate. In addition to that we've made a small help page to add some examples and explanations on what is and is not appropriate.

First of all the rule text:
And the help page:

e621:Inappropriate Comments

Link

In the interest of the success of the site we do not want people discussing their personal sexual encounters (past or present) or any explicitly detailed desires, fetishes, or fantasies. All users, artists, commissioners, the subjects of works of art, and other people browsing the website all have the right, within realistic expectations, to browse our website without seeing comments from our users that may make them uncomfortable.

Examples of inappropriate comments:

Comments that are overly focused on graphic /explicit details.

Don’t make up elaborate stories about what you wish would happen, or were to happen.

"Definitely going to need some happy aftercare time in a snug onesie and diaper. Don't forget to lock up the young kitten in a chastity with his mouth filled so he doesn't wake himself up from his nap in daddy's lap."
"Fine addition to my collection for erection."

Comments that detail your personal sexual experiences, fantasies or desires.

Any comment that describes your past real life experiences, roleplay encounters, or fap stories are going to be considered creepy by the broader userbase. Note that the comment doesn’t need to be long in order to share too much information.

Examples that will get you a record:

• I came so hard
• I wish I could get fucked like that
• I wish that vaporeon would breed me
• My boyfriend likes doing that to me!
• I wish my girlfriend would be doing that for me
• I want to lick those paws
• Wish I could get filled like that

Examples that (most likely¹) won’t get you a record:

• God I wish that were me
• I’m loving those tits
• That is one hot / wet pussy
• Pump that donut!

¹ Context is going to matter, see the two following sections for details

Comments that focus on a fetish on a picture that does not include that fetish.

Fairly self-explanatory, don’t bring any (controversial) fetish into an image that isn’t already featuring it, talking about how you’d wish any given image without X fetish should feature X fetish instead to make it “better” is always inherently creepy.

Fetishes falling under this category are the generally divisive ones like cub, watersports, scat, rape, humiliation of various kinds, and similar.

Comments that exceed the rating on the picture

In the shortest way possible, if something is rated safe nobody will want to hear about how you’d like to see the character getting lewded or fucked. Similarly goes for submissions rated questionable, nobody will want to know how you’d like them to get railed by a pack of 14 werewolves in the parking lot of an Arby’s if they’re only being suggestive or in the nude.

It's still silly that you can't comment about things that pretty much anyone who is comfortable looking at the image you are commenting on would be comfortable seeing. It honestly makes the comment feature on e621 pretty much useless.
For example, things that won't get you flagged "I wish that were me" but things that would get you flagged "I wish that vaporeon would breed me" like... that's pretty much the same comment, but because it is more detailed it's not allowed? that makes no sense, you can easily infer one from the other. I in particular was flagged just because I specified what character I wished I was in an image, what reasonable person that enjoyed such an image would find it objectionable for someone to say they wanted to be a particular character, even if such a person existed, why would that same person not be creeped out by saying "I wish that were me"

dripen_arn said:
idk, i feel like i've seen users get marks for comments like that even with appropriate context (rip tiamat5)

regardless, that news notification got my hopes up that this was going to be more of a revision to make the rules on inappropriate comments a bit more lax than just rewording, but if those examples given for comments that won't get you banned really won't get you banned, then i've got no complaints

also:
i'm sorry, that one is just too funny to me

i have actually seen people get dinged for saying god i wish that were me

lendrimujina said:
I think "God I wish that were me" is allowed only because it's directly quoting a meme.

...that said, where the meme comes from is a comment on deviantART that would be in violation if our policies applied there, so...

And both admins and many proponents of this rule argued that jokes and memes are not exceptions...

Basing warnabality of the comment on dubious meme knowledge of the staff is just asking for more justifiable shitshow.

dripen_arn said:
idk, i feel like i've seen users get marks for comments like that even with appropriate context (rip tiamat5)

regardless, that news notification got my hopes up that this was going to be more of a revision to make the rules on inappropriate comments a bit more lax than just rewording, but if those examples given for comments that won't get you banned really won't get you banned, then i've got no complaints

also:
i'm sorry, that one is just too funny to me

I just imagined the situation that some dude made this comment and created a pool called "collection for erection" with random artworks he liked. I bet that this is possible. And i already imagined the record they get.

>> Be an open ended porn image board (no you are not "just" an archive, you dont even have a non sexual tag)
>> Fire up rules and regulations fit for an international bank, acting like this is some sort of corporate operation ran by customer satisfaction and feel good points
>> Meanwhile in reality: Everyone has an overgrown ego, is power tripping, cant take (not even as much as an insult but) something as simple as a "creepy comment" cause your rights and speech ends where my feelings begin.
>> End result: A complete circus where everyone is wallowing in both self importance and self victimization at the same time

Yeah i have a question: Why cant we all just get over ourselves, accept that we are not the center of the universe and simply ignore when a random nick name pops up on our screen with a comment attached that we somehow disagree with?
Keep in mind: Not even offended, just "creepy".

You have made up a CoC that is LITERALLY impossible to not break simply by EXISTING.
You look at someone and/or their comment, they strike you as creepy. Banned. That is the current state of things.
I.... am not even mad. This is genuinely amazing to watch. Cant tell whether you are the weakest, most helpless people on planet earth or future mass murderers who just want to inflict suffering on others based on your own momentary mood.
We are getting back to the "you cry out in pain as you keep on punching someone who never did anything to you" analogy.

We all know that this will, (if not already has) devolve into a situation where the sole rule of the site is the moderator's impression of you. Absolute and complete power abuse because your ego over everyone and everything.
Well whatever... not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but a friendly, helpful, cherish-able community wont be the end result of rules like these.

aerensiniac said:
>> Be an open ended porn image board (no you are not "just" an archive, you dont even have a non sexual tag)

Don't we? we have an entire version of the website devoted to safe and safe-only artwork
A full 23% of images are rating:s

>> Fire up rules and regulations fit for an international bank, acting like this is some sort of corporate operation ran by customer satisfaction and feel good points

I'm sorry, what's wrong with people being satisfied and feeling good...? you're saying that like it's a bad thing?

>> Meanwhile in reality: Everyone has an overgrown ego, is power tripping, cant take (not even as much as an insult but) something as simple as a "creepy comment" cause your rights and speech ends where my feelings begin.
>> End result: A complete circus where everyone is wallowing in both self importance and self victimization at the same time

Wow, that's a leap. Uh.. hmm. I'm not sure where to start.

The funny thing is, the creepy comments rule has been in place for over 10 years, and all we did here was clarify our rules and give people more leeway to make certain types of comments that were previously against the rules, but you're acting like this is a new rule or something.

Yeah i have a question: Why cant we all just get over ourselves, accept that we are not the center of the universe and simply ignore when a random nick name pops up on our screen with a comment attached that we somehow disagree with?

This isn't about people disagreeing. If you say "I want to fuck the fox"... disagreeing means that I, personally, do not want to fuck the fox. Chances are, though, since I'm here on this post, I also agree that the fox is very attractive. what is being objected to is the way the statement is being said. If you said "Gosh that fox is beautiful" or "fuck! that fox is hot!" or "those tits are AMAZING"? all of those are fine.

We want to focus on the art. not the way you feel because of the art. Put bluntly: We have a dress code and it's pretty relaxed, but we really do want you to wear your shoes and a shirt. we're not asking for black ties. We're not even asking for closed-toe shoes. Just something on your chest and your feet.

Keep in mind: Not even offended, just "creepy".

Creepy is what we named the rule 10 years ago back when the staff often competed to see who could write the best parody song lyrics explaining why we were banning someone. This is the same era where "Look at me!! I can be an asshole too!" was a legitimate warning. We just never renamed it. Til, y'know. Recently?

You have made up a CoC that is LITERALLY impossible to not break simply by EXISTING.
You look at someone and/or their comment, they strike you as creepy. Banned. That is the current state of things.

We have 1,313,905 registered accounts.
less than 20,000 people have ever been banned, over the 14 years we've been around.

That's about 1%, and there have been a WHOLE LOT of ban evaders, minors, spambots (yes really. No I don't know what they think advertising on e6 is gonna do for them, but they sure do try.)

And of that 1%, there's LOTS of folks who get banned for other reasons besides making inappropriate comments.

So. ... all in all, 99% of people don't have a problem with this rule. They may not all like it, but they obviously haven't found it to be 'impossible' to not break.

Cant tell whether you are the weakest, most helpless people on planet earth or future mass murderers who just want to inflict suffering on others based on your own momentary mood.
We are getting back to the "you cry out in pain as you keep on punching someone who never did anything to you" analogy.

I'm not sure how "do not speak about your dick being hard" means that we are future mass murderers, but okay.

The funny thing is, you have literally not ever been given a record for being 'creepy'.

We've told you to use your black list.
We've told you to stop arguing about the racial dynamics.
We've told you to stop... <squints at paper> Wow, Uh... suggesting progressives should be set on fire.
We've told you to stop yelling about how adding 'don't use slurs' to the rules will turn this place into an authoritarian cesspit.
And we've told you to stop implying that, somehow, adding the above mentioned addition would somehow initiate an "authoritarian rampage of assigning who gets to have an identity and who doesn't"

But not for being creepy.

We all know that this will, (if not already has) devolve into a situation where the sole rule of the site is the moderator's impression of you. Absolute and complete power abuse because your ego over everyone and everything.
Well whatever... not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but a friendly, helpful, cherish-able community wont be the end result of rules like these.

I'm not sure how "we have loosened up the rules and clarified what we do not like" becomes "an absolute and complete power abuse"... but ok

Anyway, you're welcome to head over to another website if you like. I understand there are other sites like e621 that do not have many rules about commenting. You can go there instead. You might be happier.

aerensiniac said:
Be an open ended porn image board

There is plenty of non-sexual stuff here. It's not the admins fault if you can't find it.

aerensiniac said:
Fire up rules and regulations fit for an international bank, acting like this is some sort of corporate operation ran by customer satisfaction and feel good points

Fire up the rules, so artist do not go DNP.

aerensiniac said:
Meanwhile in reality: Everyone has an overgrown ego, is power tripping, cant take (not even as much as an insult but) something as simple as a "creepy comment" cause your rights and speech ends where my feelings begin.

For some people, the furry fandom is more than "letting off some steam in the evening." The argument that some people cope with gender dysphoria through their commissions should already convince you. And if they see a comment like ^{_{(sorry for the following)}}:"I wAnT tO lIcK tHat CunTbOyS pUsSy So BaD aNd bUrY mY fAcE iN iT" they are probably more than just a little offended. I can imagine that it hurts to be objectified without at least being asked before. And yes, your rights to speak ends wherever someone else gets hurt. And you are not the person who decides what is hurtful to them.

This rule is there for a reason, and not just made up shit because the admins are bored... They would have waay more time for other stuff if this rule wouldn't exist. And your argument is "they do it because they are power hungry"

I also want to note in this discussion that unlike, say, YouTube (where the reported content policy is "shoot first, ask questions never"), the staff here doesn't take a "this comment is creepy" report at face value.

I tried to report a comment that gave me the jibblies, but then a mod messaged me asking why I thought so. I never responded, because I figured, if what was creepy about it wasn't obvious at first glance, then it probably doesn't actually violate the policy.

snowwolf said:
The funny thing is, you have literally not ever been given a record for being 'creepy'.

We've told you to use your black list.
We've told you to stop arguing about the racial dynamics.
We've told you to stop... <squints at paper> Wow, Uh... suggesting progressives should be set on fire.
We've told you to stop yelling about how adding 'don't use slurs' to the rules will turn this place into an authoritarian cesspit.
And we've told you to stop implying that, somehow, adding the above mentioned addition would somehow initiate an "authoritarian rampage of assigning who gets to have an identity and who doesn't"

But not for being creepy.

how does this dude have 5 negs 3 neuts at ~550 comments and isn't permabanned? I know that a lot of these would have decayed if the minimum amount of effort was put in to request it, but looking at those records and scrolling through the comments made it seems like trolling is this user's main reason for being on the website.

darryus said:
how does this dude have 5 negs 3 neuts at ~550 comments and isn't permabanned? I know that a lot of these would have decayed if the minimum amount of effort was put in to request it, but looking at those records and scrolling through the comments made it seems like trolling is this user's main reason for being on the website.

3 of those negs are ancient, from 2010-2011.

darryus said:
how does this dude have 5 negs 3 neuts at ~550 comments and isn't permabanned? I know that a lot of these would have decayed if the minimum amount of effort was put in to request it, but looking at those records and scrolling through the comments made it seems like trolling is this user's main reason for being on the website.

Mostly because, unlike what some would say, we don't ban people just because we dislike them. Users get warnings and the opportunity to do better in the future. The culture here *is* different than a lot of other porn-heavy locations on the internet, so people make mistakes. that's why we have warnings.

We only jump straight to ban in a few cases. We have a few rules that are an instaban, like ban evasion, or being a minor. But any time you see a ban that seems to be 'unprovoked'--there's a reason. We just don't always make those reasons public.

So even though we know this guy probably isn't going to change, he gets the chance anyway.

It's against the rules to express in a comment what kinds of sexual acts you as an individual enjoy, right? Not like the given example of (I wish X character would do Y to me), but the more general of (I really enjoy experiencing X type of sex).

There's a followup to this, I promise XD I just want to make totally sure first.

coebalt said:
And make no mistake, this rules *is* a form of censorship, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. The staff could save themselves a billion headaches by just dropping any and all rules regarding what can and cannot be said outside of those that confirm with a user's country of origin.

It's not censorship, it's etiquette. Every place has a set of rules you're expected to follow, or things you really shouldn't say. Why should e621 be any different?

Same goes for places like Twitter or YouTube. These are places which technically reserve the full legal right to terminate your access for any reason, because they have no legal obligation not to, just like you don't have a legal obligation to follow their rules.

Concepts like "censorship", in a stricter sense, in sociology, usually apply to the interactions between the state (monopoly of coercion) and the people. Applying coercion to suppress and dissimulate verbal dissent is not only censorship, it's a removal of freedom of speech.

Sure, in a broader sense, it also exists in private groups, such as cults and websites, but it usually nonetheless has to do with some sort of dissent or other form of ideological or epistemological contradiction with the group, not with behaviour in general.

People who can't resist talking about their kinks and fantasies on the website, effectively in public, aren't performing dissent whose censorship would highlight favouritism of ideology or epistemology. Rather, they are breaching a pre-established agreement on their conduct.

You'd hope people at least read the terms they agree to. But it is a well-known fact that, usually, they're way too verbose for that expectation to ever be reasonable. This usually applies to legal backgrounds, such as the Terms and Conditions or EULA of a software, but the Code of Conduct is also fairly extensive and non-resumed.

I suggest a page that resumes each chapter, in a way where you have one succinct paragraph describing its very basic gist, which one can click to expand into the full definition if one has any doubts about the details or circumstances. If I recall correctly, Twitter does this, somewhat. (And then they go on to never act on reports of persons who break these rules lol)

After reading for a bit I have to say that this seems to be a rule that can be broken with ease. Let me explan. (Tl;Dr at the end)

Frist lets define creepy that being "causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease." I know that there are things that are just universally creepy. Hell there was one comment that well... lets just say it goes under "We don't need you here" kind of comment. (had to find one, honestly yeah this is a prime creepy comment)

user_1315482 said:
Once few years back i stopped though as i just felt guilt and shame afterwards her just laying down shaking guess you can call it panting i prefer to say heavy breathing

IF you making comments like that that fall into the realm of "that's fucking illegal" then yeah, enjoy the ban GG. However what about comments like "I wish that was me" is what I would call. Contextual Comments.

Example : Is it creepy if I was to say "I wish that was me" on a picture like this? [ https://e621.net/posts/3561044?q ] What about this one [ https://e621.net/posts/3547398?q ] or this one [ https://e621.net/posts/2750725?q ] or lastly something like this [ https://e621.net/posts/3602825? ] At what point did "I wish that was me" hit creepy? All of them? some of them? half? or one? or did just you find that creepy?

So yeah I can see bothsides here, But someone said that this is censorship, I see where your comming from but at the same time I disagree with you. Hell put it like this. If I walk into a sex shop with you can I start start talking about how I can deepthoat a large dick. you can say would be a "odd flex but okay" deal, but it's still creepy. Why? well why would I say that to someone at random?

But I know someone is saying "but this is a website that has massive amonet of furry porn, that point's kind of weak" Okay. What if I said "I bet that's a tight fit" On a pic of a cub? Fucking creepy right? now what if I said the same thing on a pic of someone getting stuck in a wall?" not creepy at all, A corny joke? yes. Creepy? nope.

Tl; dr : Yeah this rule is going to be something that could be based heavily on context. The facters being, wording, the picture in question, Tags etc. Right now it sounds like we are aruging about what apples are better; Red or green, when we are all making apple pies. It's not the color of the apples, it's the quality of the apples. If that makes sense.

(edited, small spelling error)

It feels like the easiest way to explain this is focus on the art. Any comment should be about the art, and qualities you like about the art. Describing the fantasies you have surrounding the art, while based on the post, are ultimately your own and partially to severely off-topic. Saying that you like the tits, however, is a quality you like about the art. This is an image sharing website, after all, so the community should be focused on the images.

Outside of John "let me set fire to progressives" Censorship, it seems like most people are just a bit unclear on where the line is. Mr.Gamerfur is right, though, that it's gonna end up being contextual. This just isn't the kind of thing you can make a 100% consistent rule on. The punishment's not all that severe, though, so do your best and try to keep discussion focused on the art itself. If you get bapped, try to figure out what to do better in the future.

It's good to be critical of any artificial hierarchy and any rules they try to impose on you... but this seems like a pretty benign example. If your biggest struggle in life is not being able to tell a bunch of random furries the precise methods you want to fuck the pictured vag/dick/ass/tit/etc... I envy you.

I am not too sure about this when it comes to already explicit stuff. If someone makes a sexual remark on a pornographic image, I think it'd be really fucking stupid if they get flagged for inappropriate comments. It's like getting upset about someone swearing in a porn video.

Very explicit ones are fair game to be flagged (intricate and explicit rants about the various things the person wishes to do, or them writing out a very explicit scenario, especially if this references niche fetishes) but ones that amount to "THEY LOOK HOT. I WANNA HAVE SEX WITH THEM." or something should be alright if the art is explicit/clearly sexual.

Maybe I'm just misreading this all, but if it works like how I think it does then it's a tad silly.

Just my unnecessary 2 cents

whamo said:
Is there any way to become a mod here? Just asking...

To become an e621 mod/admin you must first castrate yourself (women actually don't exist on the internet so only men are here) and then you must perform the sacred initiation ritual which involves chanting OwO 100 times and then doing a special ancient dance and drinking the sacred tea. Only then can you become a mod/admin.

lonelylupine said:
It's rather depressing how many people just don't get that even if this is a porn site (which it isn't specifically,) that isn't license for you to do whatever you want. Even brothels have standards of behavior. Even the nastiest bars have standards of behavior. Every social environment on the goddamn planet has a level of etiquette you have to observe or get thrown out.

Why do you think it would be any different here!?

I could give dozens of examples that make this statement untrue.

mintwinterbloom said:
I could give dozens of examples that make this statement untrue.

no you couldn't

mintwinterbloom said:
nvironment on the goddamn planet has a level of etiquette you have to observe or get thrown out.

Why do you think it would be any different here!?

I'd like to see you try.

This is an adult site, containing adult themes.

If there is a piece of art that users wish to further discuss the themes of; is the discord channel a more appropriate place to do so? (linking back to the art post)

I wonder if there is a special condition when you post a comment of similar intellect level like "I came so hard" on a post depicting your own *sona as additional description on that post.

I think the addition of "no comment of a higher rating than the piece" is sensible even if it's not something I'd care for having stapled to my work by default personally, it at least has some thought to what one should expect while leaving room for established community members that built up the place. I feel that if this is meant to be an archive though then comments should be limited to completely practical ones, such as things about missing community tags, missing sources, theft, ect. The furry fandom's community and history is one of rambunctious sexual openness and what is most comfortable for me and why I was drawn to it is that. It will never make sense to try to make it more digestible to "normal" people because the point is a community for people who aren't that and it doesn't make sense to make an "archive" and then make the community that created that history feel unwelcome in it. If only one group is allowed to be comfortable and happy it should be the established one that built the community otherwise it's idle complaining about something that needs to be solved another way, since it gives established members no incentive to change.

Etiquette and comfort aren't universal and propriety is used to excuse slowly and silently killing people you'll never meet, all the time. It's a terrible argument for policy making on something like an archive or a community and is best held for things that are more general and public, minding those policies will still always create accessibility problems for some, often without any concrete benefit to anyone other than maybe a little saved feelings somewhere in the day. Bad trade-off, so I think truly strict posting rules is the only way to go if it is such a major concern, topical to the process of archiving the art and not about the content of the art itself.

We're talking about a site that once upon a time was a furry porn dump that doxxed artists that made DNP requests. It's great it's moved away from being the worst of this kind of image board, but it's still run and used like an image board rather than an archive anyway. Especially when you consider the selectivity of what gets posted and how many years it took to even get anyone to source anything here.

tl;dr: the "archive" excuse has been used even for doxxing artists... this policy makes my comfort worse as a artist that doesn't care about normalcy and joined this community to get away from that... what is the middle ground and what is the ultimate goal?

"Similarly goes for submissions rated questionable, nobody will want to know how you’d like them to get railed by a pack of 14 werewolves in the parking lot of an Arby’s if they’re only being suggestive or in the nude."

I appreciate the humor interjected here, and elsewhere throughout the site, makes the staff feel more approachable! (yes, I know it is also a serious statement, it's dual-purpose!)

notmenotyou said:
Do excuse the dust in here. The latest update is pretty straightforward, we renamed the rule to be a bit more objective and clarified more what exactly is inappropriate. In addition to that we've made a small help page to add some examples and explanations on what is and is not appropriate.

First of all the rule text:
And the help page:

e621:Inappropriate Comments

Link

In the interest of the success of the site we do not want people discussing their personal sexual encounters (past or present) or any explicitly detailed desires, fetishes, or fantasies. All users, artists, commissioners, the subjects of works of art, and other people browsing the website all have the right, within realistic expectations, to browse our website without seeing comments from our users that may make them uncomfortable.

Examples of inappropriate comments:

Comments that are overly focused on graphic /explicit details.

Don’t make up elaborate stories about what you wish would happen, or were to happen.

"Definitely going to need some happy aftercare time in a snug onesie and diaper. Don't forget to lock up the young kitten in a chastity with his mouth filled so he doesn't wake himself up from his nap in daddy's lap."
"Fine addition to my collection for erection."

Comments that detail your personal sexual experiences, fantasies or desires.

Any comment that describes your past real life experiences, roleplay encounters, or fap stories are going to be considered creepy by the broader userbase. Note that the comment doesn’t need to be long in order to share too much information.

Examples that will get you a record:

• I came so hard
• I wish I could get fucked like that
• I wish that vaporeon would breed me
• My boyfriend likes doing that to me!
• I wish my girlfriend would be doing that for me
• I want to lick those paws
• Wish I could get filled like that

Examples that (most likely¹) won’t get you a record:

• God I wish that were me
• I’m loving those tits
• That is one hot / wet pussy
• Pump that donut!

¹ Context is going to matter, see the two following sections for details

Comments that focus on a fetish on a picture that does not include that fetish.

Fairly self-explanatory, don’t bring any (controversial) fetish into an image that isn’t already featuring it, talking about how you’d wish any given image without X fetish should feature X fetish instead to make it “better” is always inherently creepy.

Fetishes falling under this category are the generally divisive ones like cub, watersports, scat, rape, humiliation of various kinds, and similar.

Comments that exceed the rating on the picture

In the shortest way possible, if something is rated safe nobody will want to hear about how you’d like to see the character getting lewded or fucked. Similarly goes for submissions rated questionable, nobody will want to know how you’d like them to get railed by a pack of 14 werewolves in the parking lot of an Arby’s if they’re only being suggestive or in the nude.

With this clarification, I feel a bit more comfortable participating in this website. I got a mark on my profile years ago back when I wasn't even an artist, starting that it was a creepy comment and "We don't need to know that." What made me confused was how so many others got away with their creepy comments while I was singled out for being a nobody (or so I thought at the time). But now that things are a lot more clear on what to say, I feel like a little bit of that fear of commenting has been lifted and now I know what I can and cannot say.

team_roc'n_kammy said:
With this clarification, I feel a bit more comfortable participating in this website. I got a mark on my profile years ago back when I wasn't even an artist, starting that it was a creepy comment and "We don't need to know that." What made me confused was how so many others got away with their creepy comments while I was singled out for being a nobody (or so I thought at the time). But now that things are a lot more clear on what to say, I feel like a little bit of that fear of commenting has been lifted and now I know what I can and cannot say.

I admit that the erection collection example is mildly funny...

shingen said:

What i would see instead, is a rule against pointless/irrelevant/spam comments.
If you have nothing more to say than "i like it" or "it's nice", use an upvote/favorite.

artists generally love those comments; especially since a robot could possibly click a upvote/fav, although that's more of a Twitter problem.

I wonder why you can't just repeal this silly rule
Only cause some artist creeped out and hid their gallery just because of "creepy comments"?

That's nosense.

dubsthefox said:
This. And the rule is still a way to protect the artist's work. For those who don't want creepy comments underneath it.

YuuYeon said:
I wonder why you can't just repeal this silly rule
Only cause some artist creeped out and hid their gallery just because of "creepy comments"?

That's nosense.

There is an old adage "You can't please everyone". I know a few, including one now-somewhat-trending 3D artist, who are posting stuff here or on FA _expecting_ creepy comments and are rather disappointed, seeing only critique instead (upvotes work though). And at least three artists I know (or knew, because two quite known ones had passed away) were at odds with site's moderation approach, not comments.

On other hand, other artists are irked that they can't control comments to their art. Some DNP are reasoned by that.

Anyway, "roleplaying" comments were always and everywhere a cup of tea for a minority. So stamping hard "no" on them is reasonable on image board like this. Sadly, it wasn't formulated properly before bans had started. People judge and have "filters" (if they have them) from their personal experience, and in this case e621 is a unique imageboard. Most imagebords don't police comment section to such extreme level. Or don't at all.

IMHO those bans should be reversible or how people would learn, provided most of them don't have that experience yet? Not all people visiting here are even native speakers, knowing line or similarity between "discuss your sexual fantasies" and "I like her big tits" begins to be a cultural thing. And other way too, a commenter may say something about character's feet or paw which would be considered benign by moderator, but artist (or commenter) from Malaysia would consider it creepy, while a Chinese may consider it offensive. If you think that having an artist from Malaysia or China here is unlikely, then I can say that here is at least one artist of each from there but I won't tell who.

swiftkill said:
There is an old adage "You can't please everyone". I know a few, including one now-somewhat-trending 3D artist, who are posting stuff here or on FA _expecting_ creepy comments and are rather disappointed, seeing only critique instead (upvotes work though). And at least three artists I know (or knew, because two quite known ones had passed away) were at odds with site's moderation approach, not comments.

As an artist myself, I kinda like 'creepy comments' in my art, I only get them on FA, no one comments on inkbunny so far, and while depending on the drawing the comments may be cringe-inducing, it's still a form of interest for the art being expressed, which is a lot better/ego-inflating than an empty comment section on a SFW picture that doesn't appeal to anyone's kinks. These comments, while not necessarily criticism, are still verbal feedback, which is just has valuable.

Additionally, some people might not give critique in the first place, fearing it might be considered a form of creepy comment. Me included when I first started here.

IMHO those bans should be reversible or how people would learn,...

But people are only banned for repetitive offenses right? They first get warned, and if the behavior is frequent they get banned.
At least that's what I noticed from looking at the warns and praises given to currently banned users. The staff doesn't seem trigger happy with the ban hammer, they just wanna enforce the rules as they currently are present, giving reasonable chances along the way.

m3g4p0n1 said:

Additionally, some people might not give critique in the first place, fearing it might be considered a form of creepy comment. Me included when I first started here.

Yeah, _some_ can be whatever, sadly. Thickness of skin varies from heavy tank to wet toilet paper. I was blacklisted by an artist for asking what colors certain newly designed character was on a grayscale image with an interesting composition (I cannot visualize grayscale, my brain starts adding colors). The response could be boiled down to "I like them greyscale, your comment is unwanted".

Interestingly enough there are quite few comments on their work both on FA and weasyl. THough apparently saying "something is hot" there is "ok".

m3g4p0n1 said:

But people are only banned for repetitive offenses right?

On technicality yes, though it's no way an egalitarian process, some people get it, some not. THose who get it, are upset because they saw others done same. THere were a few cases when it technically happens "on first offense" from their point of view because of multiple comments were getting tagged retrospectively and they find out about it later.

Explanation is simple: moderators can't see everything. They react on reports and often reports are made by certain type of people who use reports as a "aggressive downvote". They don't downvote comment, but report it. Similar thing happens on FA with artists: some had been singled out and reported on technicalities (e.g. one didn't mention every character of every texture or model on a 3d image created in something like DAX Studio, an impossible requirement made up by FA). Actually reports were done because content theme is hated by reporter and he found an excuse to hurt the target.

PS. I still do not get what's up with notifications of this site. There should be, but hey are often invisible on desktop version because of how they are designed and placed and are disguised as e-mails. But admins claim that they are "quite visible". I suppose it's same thing as web designers claim that light gray text on light gray background, so popular today, is easier to read - it's a professional bias. They got good sight and their eye is trained to spot that anomaly. Not accounting that someone can have different sensitivity and isn't trained for that. And if person got bad sight, they can't read at all.

What constitutes a 'creepy comment' is all sorts of hit or miss here. Some things that are relatively light hearted seem to get downvote bombed or get a user in trouble meanwhile much more (subjectively, granted) gross comments go unchecked. It makes me chuckle because at the end of the day, this is a porn website which actively features a lot of very objectionable/"creepy" fetishes as compared to the ideals of a vast majority of people in the world.

I just stopped using the comments for absolutely anything besides questioning if a tag is applicable or if it should be removed. As usual it's a very touchy place so I find it best not to open my mouth much at all. If you can get in trouble for talking about or joking about porn on a porn site, why bother?

sybaricat said:
It makes me chuckle because at the end of the day, this is a porn website which actively features a lot of very objectionable/"creepy" fetishes as compared to the ideals of a vast majority of people in the world.

Furry Art archive that just happens to have way too much porn*

sybaricat said:
What constitutes a 'creepy comment' is all sorts of hit or miss here. Some things that are relatively light hearted seem to get downvote bombed or get a user in trouble meanwhile much more (subjectively, granted) gross comments go unchecked. It makes me chuckle because at the end of the day, this is a porn website which actively features a lot of very objectionable/"creepy" fetishes as compared to the ideals of a vast majority of people in the world.

I just stopped using the comments for absolutely anything besides questioning if a tag is applicable or if it should be removed. As usual it's a very touchy place so I find it best not to open my mouth much at all. If you can get in trouble for talking about or joking about porn on a porn site, why bother?

It's actually extremely simple.
Don't talk about wanting to do something to the character in the image, about wanting to be the character in that image, or about your personal sexual experiences.
That's pretty much it. If you can't comment without breaking that rule, then yes, you should probably refrain from commenting altogether.

edfdarkangel1 said:

If you don't like something, tell us why.

I don't like the posts that are just ads for patreon. I come here not for patreon ads, I come here for images and videos with anthros.
I hate the fact that even the animations in the patreons are not even complete (most of the time)!

verysadfox said:
Honestly only time will tell if this is enough of a change. Though imo there's still enough vagueness to make a shitty situation, and on the topic of context I do agree that it has more meaning than the words attached to it, so it should be the thing subject to judging. In terms of jokes I think we should really ease up because when you treat every person that explains to you that they wrote something with comedic intent as a liar, then that is how you essenitally create an unwritten rule that comedy is not allowed or censored based on what staff deems right and wrong either way making jokes a risk that new users - or users that were not informed by others - are not aware of because like I said its not written down. I myself made some comments that someone could definetly take out of context and report me because my joke was too much for them or something, honestly surprised I still wasn't given a warning because of that, few times I logged in expecting a message from staff thinking that if someone did miss the joke I could recieve negative score on my account

now color me surprised... most of my posts are made in jest for humor and to get dialoge started... "checks notes" and you wrote a thesis demanding stating how dare i (or other person you also quoted) make a funny post i mean you even made the comment on an animation made by the artist that i asked the artist to make.... oh and though i have paid commisdions on here not that you checked but also (the artist in question said She doesnt take commissions) so how would i commission her ?... very odd to say "let them make jokes" then get mad at me for making funny posts smh dude im not even surprised to find a hypocrite.

notinaire777 said:
*snip*

why are you bringing your stupid comment section disagreements into the forums?

notinaire777 said:
*also snip*

You spammed the comment section with five separate replies to a single comment, which you termed a "thesis" despite it being shorter than some of your own comments, including this one. Overall, seven of the ten comments on that post are yours, and the tenth is from a moderator rightly telling you to knock it off.

Feel free to continue this in the new rules discussion topic.
Better yet, don't.