i was checking out on his/her art but when i actually searched for it on the website there was nothing, any explanation?

They asked to be DNP for private reasons, thus they're DNP now.

xxxdoritosmlg69xxx said:
i was checking out on his/her art but when i actually searched for it on the website there was nothing, any explanation?

He disagrees with the tag-what-you-see rule, which caused his sona Mik to be tagged as 'cuntboy', not (presumably) 'female' and 'transgender'.

GunStinger said:
He disagrees with the tag-what-you-see rule, which caused his sona Mik to be tagged as 'cuntboy', not (presumably) 'female' and 'transgender'.

Source for this claim?
Because there was also case of paid material leaking trough us and there was also tweet by them before DNP request accusing bad dragon of something.

Mairo said:
Source for this claim?
Because there was also case of paid material leaking trough us and there was also tweet by them before DNP request accusing bad dragon of something.

I did an advanced search to find that they recently tweeted about their disagreement with both the TWYS policy and the use of the term "cuntboy" as a gender descriptor.

Yeah, most see "cuntboy" as a slur\derogative term, especially if they hail from Canada\Britain.

Swiftkill said:
Yeah, most see "cuntboy" as a slur\derogative term, especially if they hail from Canada\Britain.

Country of origin has nothing to do with how the word is viewed.

Versperus said:
Country of origin has nothing to do with how the word is viewed.

Yes it does, slang is different around the world, as is social acceptability of different words. For example smoking a fag means smoking a cigarette in Britain, and killing a gay person in the US.

And not, this is not an exaggeration, even though it is one of the more extreme examples.

NotMeNotYou said:
Yes it does, slang is different around the world, as is social acceptability of different words. For example smoking a fag means smoking a cigarette in Britain, and killing a gay person in the US.

And not, this is not an exaggeration, even though it is one of the more extreme examples.

As fair a point as that is I've never heard cuntboy even used in dialogue here. Which leaves the assumption that they used the word cunt to make their argument.

Swiftkill said:
Yeah, most see "cuntboy" as a slur\derogative term, especially if they hail from Canada\Britain.

Hell, any transgender person views the terms 'shemale' and 'cuntboy' as a slur if they're English speaking.

Seeing that terms like shemale, cuntboy, dickgirl, futa, and trap are for the vast majority are used in porn (real life or drawn), I think there's a large part of the 'I don't want my identity to be fetishized' thought at play as well. Which is kind of ironic when it's someone drawing porn saying something like this.

Well this thread is quickly going off topic.

Whygena just pulled the plug too, removing my example from both sides of my tug-of-war argument around androgynous character tagging drama.

MagnusEffect said:
The problem is really that there are several characters of either sex with the same range of androgynous body depictions, which just means whenever tagging protocols shift to one gender the other side gets pissed.

WHO WOULD WIN?

post #238240 post #1695886

We got the answer guys:

Nobody wins.

This is the weirdest case of mutually-assured-destruction I've ever documented.

Remember, everyone:
e621 didn't remove these artists; their own fans did.

MagnusEffect said:
e621 didn't remove these artists; their own fans did.

Weird conclusion, given the root cause of the drama is the heavy-handed and strictly enforced tagging policy here. Actual fans of a particular artist would most likely stick with TWYK and artist's opinion on controversial tags, eliminating the problem completely. Too bad doing so is a bannable offence on e6.

hslugs said:
Weird conclusion, given the root cause of the drama is the heavy-handed and strictly enforced tagging policy here. Actual fans of a particular artist would most likely stick with TWYK and artist's opinion on controversial tags, eliminating the problem completely. Too bad doing so is a bannable offence on e6.

Because we became popular having a tagging system like FA where everybody can just tag however they feel, and not curated tags that are actually enforced on a consistent standard.

hslugs said:
Actual fans of a particular artist would most likely stick with TWYK and artist's opinion on controversial tags, eliminating the problem completely.

What? That's exactly what led to people complaining to/at the admins and artists.
e621 only supplied the gun. People who care enough about the specific characters to kick up a fuss (I'd call them fans) pulled the trigger.

I'm not even in favour of the tagging system myself. I vocally disagree with a number of locks that I believe themselves went (big F for Mik posts) against the gender tagging guidelines. (Not just a screech for TWYK.)
I stopped even using gender tagging in my browsing when Mikhaila started getting consistently locked to male and cuntboy, unless I'm searching for a specific post.

NotMeNotYou said:
like FA where everybody can just tag however they feel

On FA, only the artists tag their own work, not everybody.
This is likely more important than the strict tagging rules.

Consistency itself means nothing unless the rule being enforced is actually useful. Consider tagging every other image "shitty_art", consistently, and enforcing that. And then wonder why artists are leaving.

This case is about a bad rule that's being consistently enforced to ridiculous extremes. Why, I have no idea. Like, why are you so hell-bent on slapping gender tags on every single image? If you are facing a genuinely borderline case, where tagging war got so bad you have to lock the tags, why not lock it without gender tags? No, let's force-slap "cuntboy" there to piss off as many people as possible including the artist.

hslugs said:
On FA, only the artists tag their own work, not everybody.
This is likely more important than the strict tagging rules.

Consistency itself means nothing unless the rule being enforced is actually useful. Consider tagging every other image "shitty_art", consistently, and enforcing that. And then wonder why artists are leaving.

If someone went around doing that, they'ed get reported for tagging abuse.

This case is about a bad rule that's being consistently enforced to ridiculous extremes. Why, I have no idea. Like, why are you so hell-bent on slapping gender tags on every single image?

People put in reports requesting, (my self included) gender ruling on images that are being warred over by both people trying to follow site guidelines, and those following lore standing. Believe it or not, I rarely see admins intervene with posts that didn't first get reported for some issue.

If you are facing a genuinely borderline case, where tagging war got so bad you have to lock the tags, why not lock it without gender tags? No, let's force-slap "cuntboy" there to piss off as many people as possible including the artist.

Because there are people that are both looking for images of characters that are masculine but have a pussy, and those whom want to avoid seeing it as it's not in their tastes. Completely removing a tag would invalidate blacklists, causing more discourse as people would likely start complaining on images. Which in turn would cause more people to be hurt by their negativity.

Where also the opposite is true, and people whom appreciate the body type wouldn't be able to find artwork they are looking for.

The site always entertains suggestions for aliases.

hslugs said:
On FA, only the artists tag their own work, not everybody.
This is likely more important than the strict tagging rules.

Consistency itself means nothing unless the rule being enforced is actually useful. Consider tagging every other image "shitty_art", consistently, and enforcing that. And then wonder why artists are leaving.

This case is about a bad rule that's being consistently enforced to ridiculous extremes. Why, I have no idea. Like, why are you so hell-bent on slapping gender tags on every single image? If you are facing a genuinely borderline case, where tagging war got so bad you have to lock the tags, why not lock it without gender tags? No, let's force-slap "cuntboy" there to piss off as many people as possible including the artist.

So you entirely argument boils down to that we shouldn't tag things because some people's feelings might get hurt. But it only matters if those people are the artists. Just as a funny example, that dude who insisted that an underage character undergoing female circumcision or clitorectomy shouldn't be tagged with genital_mutilation, despite it quite literally being just that. But sure, let's just not tag that and then have people find mutilation artwork because it's not being blacklisted properly.

And yes, we force tags on because with those tags one of them always applies, and it makes no sense to not tag something if it's applicable. There is literally no case possible where a character shouldn't have a gender tag, thus they get one.

Versperus said:
body type

See, there's the problem.

It was my problem with the Charr tagging incident too. People were taking it to the point that showing a Charr with a vagina and no indication of bodytype was enough to slap on some cuntboy.
What I noticed a lot with Mikhaila were posts where she's narrow-shouldered with hips double the width of her waistline, and those would lock to cuntboy because she's flatchested with "defined pectoral muscle."
Cuntboy just shouldn't be a default-tag, like dickgirl isn't the default tag for characters with a penis and an obscured body.

Naturally those weren't issues I had with the Reggie locks, but what I saw in the comments was a pretty good mirror of what I'd already seen with Mikhaila, and I knew from the start how it was all going down. All I thought when Reggie happened was "Oh no, this is Mikhaila again."
But what I found most telling is there doesn't seem to be much overlap between Mikhaila fans and Reggie fans. I call it a tug-of-war because it's essentially two entirely separate communities screeching at the admin team, with arguments simultaneously supporting and opposing one another.

I do want to make it clear to the admin team that I personally don't want to associate myself into any of the group-arguments here. I haven't seen anybody else say what I want to say, and I'd like to be the least-antagonistic I can be around this surprisingly-abrasive issue. Because this is where I come for my art browsing, and pushing artists off the site only hurts me.

hslugs said:
Weird conclusion, given the root cause of the drama is the heavy-handed and strictly enforced tagging policy here. Actual fans of a particular artist would most likely stick with TWYK and artist's opinion on controversial tags, eliminating the problem completely. Too bad doing so is a bannable offence on e6.

Wow, it's almost like there are gazillion gallery websites which allow artists themselves setting up their own gallery and maintaining it and where they can do just this. And it's almost like we are archiving content mainly from those websites in more manageable and universal format.

It's almost like there was reason for Bad Dragon to start Furry Network even though e621 exsists, it's almost like these websites have seperate purposes or some shit.

hslugs said:
On FA, only the artists tag their own work, not everybody.
This is likely more important than the strict tagging rules.

Consistency itself means nothing unless the rule being enforced is actually useful. Consider tagging every other image "shitty_art", consistently, and enforcing that. And then wonder why artists are leaving.

This case is about a bad rule that's being consistently enforced to ridiculous extremes. Why, I have no idea. Like, why are you so hell-bent on slapping gender tags on every single image? If you are facing a genuinely borderline case, where tagging war got so bad you have to lock the tags, why not lock it without gender tags? No, let's force-slap "cuntboy" there to piss off as many people as possible including the artist.

Now we are getting to the territory that you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'm also getting so goddamn tired of explaining things, including the simple ones, over and over again, because look up any thread where TWYS is questioned and you have wall of text discussing about all the aspects and biggest reason againts the system is that "artists and character owner feelings get hurt by wrong tags", which for someone who things of tagging system being computer based organization system is mostly thinking as ridiculous.

Furaffinity and other gallery websites are like conventions or tiny malls, artists and others set up their own table or own shop, which they then fully maintain, people form around these places and you are pretty much directly in contact with the artist every time you visit there. It's also up to single individual to kinda set the athmosphere and what's good and bad and they can put up whatever they want as long as it's not illegal or againts rules of the place that they are in.

e621 and other booru and archival websites are like library or museum, where it's the staff of the building who does all the setting up and organizing. Books are usually bought to be there so the original author rarely comes by personally. General etiquette is expected, as you have limited resources of maintaining everything you do rely on computer software for sorting and curate stuff so that visitors don't bump into stuff that's clearly not meant to be there.

Also tagging is generally objective and are aimed to be objective. Computer magazines are usually found in magazines shelf and technology. I don't remember library having category for "shitty magazine". I also do not think that if the author for fifty shades of grey would come and demand that the film is intented for kids and should be moved to kids films section that it would be complied with.

Closer to normal scenario example would be keeping your local collection of furry images. If you compare your collection to 10 other people, I'm 100% sure that you all sort and tag stuff extremely differendly. Now imagine there being 500 000 people maintaining a single collection instead, not everyone knows everything and some of the images are from random places or by deceased artists, so there's no way of consistantly keep everything up until you also make secondary manually handled database of known information and constantly reflect and enforce that information on the main collection - so it is simply easier to not do that. Paheal took one step further and they have rules AGAINTS tagging, tagging anything else than character name and artist can get you banned, I guess their focus is more on SEO ad revenue though rather than archival.

Tags can only be enforced by admins. We have like handful of admins at work as nobody else who is sane wants to work with these kind of arguments for free and there's ~1000 posts uploaded daily. Usually when there's situation where tags need to be locked, that's the kind of post which is already gaining huge amounts of attention and is already starting up fights back and forth before admin even gets to it. It's at that point when it's enforced to stop the fighting. Because of this there can easily be posts where individuals change tags incorrectly and they are left unhandled as it can take quite some time before someone bumps into the post again and questions the tags, because older the post is, less traffic there is to it.

Also if it's not already obvious from the tone of my writing, I'm extremely pissed off already with this kind of attitude when I see it. It's always the individual artists who are in the right, not website which have operated with same system for longer than artist has drawn. I'm extremely pissed off at modern gender politics, especially combining how all everything related to that is english words only, which makes communication and translation harder and harder all the goddamn time and in the process everyone by default is malicious.

How about that someone tells me single word how to describe character which is not transgender, which has fully male body with female genitalia, which I can immidiately understand without googling nor translation, so that we can change mostly pornographic term cuntboy to that word and at least get rid of the slur - so that majority of the artist can still complain about how the word still doesn't describe the character being transgender or that it's supposed to be female.

How is this thread not locked yet?

Kodanis said:
How is this thread not locked yet?

probably because though the starting argument was aggressive the conversation held in the thread has been relatively civil

Don't forget about these comments from the artist:

comment #2730101

comment #2730706

There's certainly some benefit to drawing a hard line in the sand between cuntboy and female. That said, a major artist is gone now. The quality of the archive has decreased.

What's wrong with a little more flexibility in edge cases like this? If she was a cut and dried cuntboy, that'd be one thing. But taking the most recently locked post as an example - this is not a fully male body with female genitalia. Not with a hips to shoulders ratio of nearly 2:1.

If it's arbitrary anyway, why not go with the tag that keeps people happy and the creator supportive of the site? So what if it causes a little inconsistency? The tagging system can't be perfect to begin with. It's hard to believe that this whole shitstorm is worth it. And most people seem to expect female on most Mik posts.

Like Magnus, I'm an outsider to this and I don't mean to be antagonistic. I greatly value e621 and the people holding it together. I only want to help the place improve.

Index said:
There's certainly some benefit to drawing a hard line in the sand between cuntboy and female. That said, a major artist is gone now. The quality of the archive has decreased.

The quality hasn't decreased at all, just the quantity by a relatively small margin.

Versperus said:
The quality hasn't decreased at all, just the quantity by a relatively small margin.

This is both entirely subjective and depends on how you measure quality. Personally I'd consider Tsampikos to be an above-average artist, and I count 173 deleted posts with at least 100 score.
If an above-average artist pops out of existence, the "average" bar drops a little.

MagnusEffect said:

This is both entirely subjective and depends on how you measure quality. Personally I'd consider Tsampikos to be an above-average artist, and I count 173 deleted posts with at least 100 score.
If an above-average artist pops out of existence, the "average" bar drops a little.

My assessment of the sites quality completely subtracts the posted content, but measuring it on usability, functionality and staff presence.

Versperus said:
My assessment of the sites quality completely subtracts the posted content, but measuring it on usability, functionality and staff presence.

If I'm to borrow from Mairo's museum/library analogy, isn't the content the primary draw? Those other factors only influence how likely people are to provide the content in the first place. Usability, functionality, and staff presence are important, but loss of content is still a potential loss of overall quality.

Are you primarily here for working with the tagging system, with the art being a coincidental upside you'd keep using the site without?

Adding an exception to a rule to placate someone with some weight to throw around seems like a bad idea. I'd hate to see how many miles from that inch people would try for as a result.

MagnusEffect said:
If I'm to borrow from Mairo's museum/library analogy, isn't the content the primary draw? Those other factors only influence how likely people are to provide the content in the first place. Usability, functionality, and staff presence are important, but loss of content is still a potential loss of overall quality.

Are you primarily here for working with the tagging system, with the art being a coincidental upside you'd keep using the site without?

A little bit of both, I came here for the art and stayed because I knew e6 was a place where it was easy to find types of content your looking for, knew there was no worry about malware attacking me, and knew advertisements wouldn't open because I clicked on a thumbnail. Literally most all the staff will answer your questions here as well, so there isn't a sense of waiting around with your thumb in your arse if someone will get back to you. As far as my tagging endeavours go, Thats really only bean over the past year. As I like this place and want to help make it more useable for other people to find content they're interested in as well.

We're not the United States Government, we do not bend the rules just because someone is more popular than someone else.

Ratte said:
Adding an exception to a rule to placate someone with some weight to throw around seems like a bad idea. I'd hate to see how many miles from that inch people would try for as a result.

NotMeNotYou said:
We're not the United States Government, we do not bend the rules just because someone is more popular than someone else.

Is this a response to a specific post, or a blanket dismissal of attempting to talk about body types within the tagging system?

MagnusEffect said:
Is this a response to a specific post, or a blanket dismissal of attempting to talk about body types within the tagging system?

Pretty sure mostly directed at hslugs and Index, though we get the same or similar argument fairly often from quite a few people.

Ah yeah I see it now. I tired-forgot what the body of Index's post talked about.

Nazrin said:
Hell, any transgender person views the terms 'shemale' and 'cuntboy' as a slur if they're English speaking.

Right, or at least most (I know a couple who doesn't care). But that's personal view. There is also regional dialect issue . Certain words, like "fanny", "cunt", "queer" etc. have different semantics. In Standard British "cunt" is much more a severe word, to the level of being unacceptable in print, than in standard American (if such thing exists). In Canada "cuntboy" may have different meaning unrelated to transgender.

American English vs. British got even some differences in official punctuation and grammar rules.

Swiftkill said:
In Canada "cuntboy" may have different meaning unrelated to transgender.

Now please factor in non-english languages.

I'm pretty sure that most who do not speak english natively, will initially try to translate things literally in their head. So what this means is that if someone not familiar with vocabulary sees words "cuntboy" and "dickgirl", they translate immidiately and you understand that "oh, it means boy who has vagina and girl who has penis!"

Even if we did go the route of tagging even fantasy characters with transgender tags, saying something is "transgender female" immidiately makes at least me go like "oh wait, did that mean body or genitals or does that mean they look completely female or completely male because they transitioned from female? I'm confused and now everyone is thinking of me I'm transfobic for not remembering something so simple."

So the tag is literally there just as most descriptive way of telling what the character looks like for searching purposes, it's not there to state what character is. And this has also been explained so many times now it's making me tired.

Really this whole thing becomes a lot less of a problem once you just stop caring if what you're looking at categorically fits your categorised preferences.

Meanwhile I'm over here designing pseudopenised flatchested girls and deep-slitted boys whose dicks are never externally-visible. I hope to one day sit back and have a laugh at how e621 argues about that while not giving a fuck myself about how it's tagged.

The purpose of tags is to allow users to find the content they are looking for. If everyone expects to find pictures of Mik or characters like her by searching for "flat_chested female" but do not because all those images were tagged "cuntboy" then the tagging system has failed. Right now it is next to impossible for people looking for images of flat chested female characters to find them because of this insistence on using the cuntboy tag. This makes the tagging system an objective, abject failure.

And with regard to people's feelings, using the term "cuntboy" is pretty much comparable to using "nigger" as the tag for "dark_skin". It's not okay.

Kolhell said:
The purpose of tags is to allow users to find the content they are looking for. If everyone expects to find pictures of Mik or characters like her by searching for "flat_chested female" but do not because all those images were tagged "cuntboy" then the tagging system has failed. Right now it is next to impossible for people looking for images of flat chested female characters to find them because of this insistence on using the cuntboy tag. This makes the tagging system an objective, abject failure.

And with regard to people's feelings, using the term "cuntboy" is pretty much comparable to using "nigger" as the tag for "dark_skin". It's not okay.

This is why character names are excluded from TWYS, if you know character you like, you can search them using their tag.

Tagging system hasn't failed, you have failed to utilize the tagging system in use. flat_chested is already excluding males, so flat_chested female search is reduntant. Searching with ~flat_chested ~cuntboy should give you more results that you are looking for, combined with -masculine and/or -male for fine tuning.

I remember when I was in elementary school, we had class specifically to learn how computer searching works and how to utilize services like google efficiently. Nowdays especially google has transformed into system which tries to learn what you want to search instead of it assuming you know how to utilize advanced searching of it. Because we aren't google, we still need to rely on people to think like computer and know how to utilize the search and tag system properly.

All tagging systems have flaws, because they are technically perfect, but real life and artwork is never. What I mean by that is that tag either is or isn't, meanwhile in artwork, it can be up for debate if a pixel counts as something or not. In your own personal collections and artists own galleries, they can dictate fully how to use the tagging system and what tagging system to utilize for best results, usually you know the lore with these. However enforcing lore on collection of nearly 2 million posts, where nearly 50 000 posts are by unknown artist alone and thousands of posts have sources died or artists vanished or deceased, that's quite an undertaking, also especially communicating the tags being lore to users who are searching content without knowing the lore.

Seperate lore tags are one solution, however in current situation, technically single coder and software in use, this can take a bit to become reality.

My personal problem is that I do not even see the n-word as anything malicious or racist, when I was kid that was word which was used to describe chocolate treat and kids card game for example. Also from what I see in real life, the hate is aimed towards people like refugees, nothing exactly towards people with colored skin. Because of this I haven't seen those words used on the site as malicious ever, especially when tags are there for the database purposes. At the same time, if there are several people who are feeling so strongly of a word utilized that they do not want to accosiated themselves with the website, changing the word in use sounds good, especially as we do have aliasing system. Still hoping it's soon so that everyone could just move on with this.

BooruHitomi said:
I did an advanced search to find that they recently tweeted about their disagreement with both the TWYS policy and the use of the term "cuntboy" as a gender descriptor.

What a whiny shit.. oh well i'd say it's better this way. The less people like that around the better.

Swiftkill said:
Yeah, most see "cuntboy" as a slur\derogative term, especially if they hail from Canada\Britain.

while this is 18 days old i though i'd back up Vesperus after he said this

Versperus said:
As fair a point as that is I've never heard cuntboy even used in dialogue here. Which leaves the assumption that they used the word cunt to make their argument.

i'm a British guy here and while we do say the word "cunt", we rarely use the term "cuntboy", and i've personally never heard it used as an offence either.

Mairo said:
My personal problem is that I do not even see the n-word as anything malicious or racist, when I was kid that was word which was used to describe chocolate treat and kids card game for example.

words change over time, and the biggest problem with that is that people forget old meanings of words. for example, i can remember watching a program where an elderly lady talked about how there used to be a colour called (N-Word) and how it was beautiful... meanwhile the young black woman next to her went off screen and complained hat she was being racist, when all she was doing was describing a nice colour.

my point is, at some point (if the site goes on long enough) i wouldn't be surprised if many words become offensive and have to be replaced. so in a few years the term "cuntboy" could be casual while a casual word now might be highly offensive (another example: gay, used to mean happy, but if you walk up to someone and say that they're really gay now... let's just say that you might not be feeling very gay, afterwards)

(i have no idea what my point here was, but this thread could probably be locked)

jonnyawsom3 said:
there used to be a colour called (N-Word)

Negro is the Spanish (masculine) literal translation of the colour "black"
Attacking the word itself disconnected from racial context is just an abuse of identity politics.

MagnusEffect said:
Negro is the Spanish (masculine) literal translation of the colour "black"
Attacking the word itself disconnected from racial context is just an abuse of identity politics.

I'm kind of assuming you're talking about the one that still directly means the colour, not the Big Bad N-Word. It's hard to tell when all I have is loosely implied context.

i didn't know (but am also not surprised) that it's also a color in spanish, but once "the Big Bad N-Word", was also was a color...

So, Tsampikos has redacted their DNP status 3 hours ago. Though I don't know what'll happen to their old artwork it was undeleted, their new artwork will be now free to post.

Siral_Exan said:
So, Tsampikos has redacted their DNP status 3 hours ago. Though I don't know what'll happen to their old artwork it was undeleted, their new artwork will be now free to post.

Let's hope it lasts and the tag arguing (which is back) is contained to here where it belongs.

jonnyawsom3 said:
words change over time

I hate this argument, it's like responding to a claim about climate change with something like "the climate ALWAYS changes, lololol." Words used to change by consensus, not by a tiny emotional minority screaming and scheming until they get their way.

Siral_Exan said:
So, Tsampikos has redacted their DNP status 3 hours ago. Though I don't know what'll happen to their old artwork it was undeleted, their new artwork will be now free to post.

All is right with the world.

I don't understand why issues like this are still being debated. Is it so difficult for artists to realize that this an internet archive and not their personal fidget spinner of an Aryion page? First and foremost, e621 is an image categorization system based on absolutes and objective features of the image with no regard to canon, which I love. This means that your Gaston-lookalike character will still be tagged as cuntboy if they have a vagina, even if they are canonically female.

I can understand objecting to the use of the term "cuntboy" and "dickgirl" as crude but why does anyone need to be a little bitch about it and bring gender politics into it? Practically no one uses those words to insult transgender people, I think I only ever saw it once, and then does it matter? "Tranny" is a very inappropriate insult but it is not used as such on skeevier sites like PornHub.

Their motivations and such aren't worth trying to unravel; they're seldom what they appear on the surface, they also wax and wane wildly just like the moodiness that leads so many artists to try and nuke their art from the internet. Sometimes there's no reason at all.

e621 is owned by a corporation now, they can't afford the legal ramifications of ignoring these whims. Now when Joseph Artist thinks of her gender-bending art as a weapon in a cultural war, the staff have to choose between scraping their forehead or swelling the DNP; gone is the third option of "what you want is toxic to our site so no" available to independent communities. Either way, art is devalued and editorial control is given to outsiders.

Arrow189 said:
e621 is owned by a corporation now, they can't afford the legal ramifications of ignoring these whims.

I just like the notion that we cannot do stuff simply because we want people to be happy, to have a balance, to not bite hand of those who feed us, give some level of control to creator over their creations, etc. it has to be because of big corporation lingering above the website, being bound by law, advertisers, payment processers or some other shit.

I could also just be extremely naive person.

tsampikos is not on the DNP list anymore and this forum is degrading into the void so I'm just gonna lock it.