Topic: [Announcement] Making our gender tags less vulgar

Posted under General

This topic has been locked.

JadePrime said:
And I'm sorry to hear that you're trans, I hope you can get the mental help you need to realize that you are the gender you were born with.

What in the world are you thinking? That's like telling a gay person: "I'm sorry to hear you're gay, I hope you can go to conversion therapy and like the gender you're supposed to like."

That's an absolutely backwards thing to say to someone. People are different than you, they feel differently, and don't have to be "fixed" just because they aren't like you or the majority of people you know.

JadePrime said:
Gay behavior has been recorded to long, long ago and it's a somewhat common occurrence with animals as well. Being trans however is rarely if ever recorded and has only really been relevant in modern times due to the overwhelming fad it has become to be trans due to the lgbt community rising up.

Trans and gay people have always existed. The fact that the atmosphere is more open to them these days is why they are more visible. They aren't some kind of recent creation used to make someone more unique.

This really shouldn't of even been brought up here. Now I'm even getting off-topic.

Updated by anonymous

hiekkapillu said:
I don't discuss with people who can't treat me with basic decency, which you are doing by implying that my gender identity is some sort of mental illness. Now stop talking to me.

Well by all technicality's it is, if you have a perfectly healthy male/female body and your mind tells you that you're supposed to be other gender or you're not supposed to have this body, then it's a mental problem. This is further proven by the fact that people who do transition are rarely in a better mental state, in fact they're much more likely to feel unchanged or even worse.

And if you want me to stop talking to you, then simply stop replying and I won't have anything to reply back to.

Updated by anonymous

JadePrime said:
Well by all technicality's it is, if you have a perfectly healthy male/female body and your mind tells you that you're supposed to be other gender or you're not supposed to have this body, then it's a mental problem. This is further proven by the fact that people who do transition are rarely in a better mental state, in fact they're much more likely to feel unchanged or even worse.

And if you want me to stop talking to you, then simply stop replying and I won't have anything to reply back to.

Shut up

Updated by anonymous

UgandaKnucklesYT said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus#Sexuality_and_gender_controversy

brudda transphobia is not da wae and being trans isnt new.

Not sure what your issue is with girls being born with dicks considering your favorites

Wow, something that started in the 90's by gays and lesbians and another that clearly says 'The question of Elagabalus' sexual orientation is confused, owing to salacious and unreliable sources.'

Even if they were both good points, it's literally two, whereas homosexuality's naturalness has been proven tons upon tons of times.

Also 'transphobia' is mostly just a buzzword anyway, I do not hate trans people nor do I fear them.

Updated by anonymous

JadePrime said:
Well by all technicality's it is, if you have a perfectly healthy male/female body and your mind tells you that you're supposed to be other gender or you're not supposed to have this body, then it's a mental problem. This is further proven by the fact that people who do transition are rarely in a better mental state, in fact they're much more likely to feel unchanged or even worse.

And if you want me to stop talking to you, then simply stop replying and I won't have anything to reply back to.

Brudda you need to meditate and chillax and think about your cognitive dissonance of thinking that trans people are mentally ill and weird but girls with dicks are hot.

Maybe girls with dicks would like you better if you were more accepting of them and not thinking they are mentally ill.

Updated by anonymous

Alright I am going to let Nimmy handle handing out records for this because this because this is a bit more of a sensitive issue, but both of you stop arguing. This is getting childish.
I'll lock this thread if I have to.
Anyone who continues throwing around slurs or hate speech will have any record that is going to be handed out(Yes, records will be handed out, Nimmy is busy cooking them) automatically elevated to a negative, or a suspension if it would have been a negative.

Updated by anonymous

Ninosi said:
What in the world are you thinking? That's like telling a gay person: "I'm sorry to hear you're gay, I hope you can go to conversion therapy and like the gender you're supposed to like."

That's an absolutely backwards thing to say to someone. People are different than you, they feel differently, and don't have to be "fixed" just because they aren't like you or the majority of people you know.

Trans and gay people have always existed. The fact that the atmosphere is more open to them these days is why they are more visible. They aren't some kind of recent creation used to make someone more unique.

This really shouldn't of even been brought up here. Now I'm even getting off-topic.

Homosexuality and transgender are vastly different and have vastly different histories, you can't really compare the two even though they relate with genders.

As for feelings, I am fully fine if people feel differently, however it does not mean I'm going to reject reality for it and accept it as normal, as rejecting reality isn't normal. When a gay person says 'I like men' there's no reality denial, it's been proven that gay people simply don't find women attractive and gay behaviors have been observed in animals for decades.

However when a man says he's a woman, he's actively rejecting reality, as we know the differences between being a male and a female. Being gay is a preference whereas being trans, and I don't mean this insultingly just factually, is delusional.

Have gays and trans always existed? Of course, but homosexuality is well documented and currant throughout history whereas transgender has rarely been documented and has only really become relevant in recent years. It doesn't help that there are people raising their kids to be transgender by confusing them with what gender is and with how popular it is now.

Sorry to get off topic but it's a very serious issue. This will be my last post here though, I'm tired and I'm busy now.

Updated by anonymous

Chaser said:
Alright I am going to let Nimmy handle handing out records for this because this because this is a bit more of a sensitive issue, but both of you stop arguing. This is getting childish.
I'll lock this thread if I have to.
Anyone who continues throwing around slurs or hate speech will have any record that is going to be handed out(Yes, records will be handed out, Nimmy is busy cooking them) automatically elevated to a negative, or a suspension if it would have been a negative.

Alright, I'm stopping, excuse that last post as I couldn't see this one until I posted already.

Updated by anonymous

@JadePrime They both amount to ingrained mental preferences in a person and they both can't be "fixed" or "cured". It's shown to cause nothing but severe harm to try to do so.

(I typed a huge post about this, but decided I'd rather not clutter up the thread with a bunch of arguments.)

@Versperus I believe phobia's meaning evolved from fear into hate because that is exactly what fear tends to do in real life. People fear what they don't understand and that combines with the fact that it's far easier to hate something than it is to try to understand it.

On topic: I'm already getting used to seeing and using the new tags while tagging now. Tagging is just as easy as it was before, especially thanks to the aliases.

Updated by anonymous

Ninosi said:
@Versperus I believe phobia's meaning evolved from fear into hate because that is exactly what fear tends to do in real life. People fear what they don't understand and that combines with the fact that it's far easier to hate something than it is to try to understand it.

It hasn't, it's just been assumed as the word for hate. Someone who didn't understand words started calling something as such and it caught on. Even the proper definition for homophobia classifies it as an irrational fear, but I'm off topic now.

Updated by anonymous

Versperus said:
It hasn't, it's just been assumed as the word for hate. Someone who didn't understand words started calling something as such and it caught on. Even the proper definition for homophobia classifies it as an irrational fear, but I'm off topic now.

That's how a lot of language drift happens in the first place from what I understand, especially when the misuse is widespread.

But yeah, as for the new tags, I'm not even sure how much more can be said about them at this point.

Updated by anonymous

Ninosi said:
I'm already getting used to seeing and using the new tags while tagging now.

While I haven't been actively tagging anything, looking into the tags and seeing andromorph and gynomorph listed (had to look up and copy/paste the latter one as I didn't even remember what the term was) I still have absolutely no idea which one is which, there's zero intuitive way of knowing the difference unless you've already force memorized what they are, and even at that you're probably mentally aliasing them to "male with pussy" or "female with penis" anyway.

Updated by anonymous

Anonomn said:
While I haven't been actively tagging anything, looking into the tags and seeing andromorph and gynomorph listed (had to look up and copy/paste the latter one as I didn't even remember what the term was) I still have absolutely no idea which one is which, there's zero intuitive way of knowing the difference unless you've already force memorized what they are, and even at that you're probably mentally aliasing them to "male with pussy" or "female with penis" anyway.

I'm a big fan of word roots.

Now that I've learned gynomorph is "female-shaped" and andromorph "male-shaped", it helps me remember which is which.

Updated by anonymous

JadePrime said:
Well by all technicality's it is, if you have a perfectly healthy male/female body and your mind tells you that you're supposed to be other gender or you're not supposed to have this body, then it's a mental problem. This is further proven by the fact that people who do transition are rarely in a better mental state, in fact they're much more likely to feel unchanged or even worse.

And if you want me to stop talking to you, then simply stop replying and I won't have anything to reply back to.

If this is the game we are playing at this point (which I'm not surprised as this is going exactly the way the topic of discussing the tag change couple years ago) and let's assume that site suddenly takes a stance that trans people is form of mental health issue - what the fuck does it have to do with anything that's happening right now?

We host purely fantasy content here. I can imagine myself being female dragon in a tutu, but on top of having vagina to also have my tongue to be a dick and have natural lube dispencer in my ass. I can then either draw or commission someone to draw me or just write stories with that.

The whole point here is that we are changing the tags names to be less vulgar, so wheter it was character someone is playing or identifying as, aren't forced to have more vulgar names attached to them by computer tagging system.

Arguments of what trans are and are not or what you think they are, is pretty much irrelevant for us and irrelevant to this whole topic and most likely just puts more fuel to the already massive flames and derails the actual discussion even further, were it by trolling or legit opinions.

So just stop.

Updated by anonymous

Anonomn said:
While I haven't been actively tagging anything, looking into the tags and seeing andromorph and gynomorph listed (had to look up and copy/paste the latter one as I didn't even remember what the term was) I still have absolutely no idea which one is which, there's zero intuitive way of knowing the difference unless you've already force memorized what they are, and even at that you're probably mentally aliasing them to "male with pussy" or "female with penis" anyway.

Hey

Bud

Did you know

That there’s

A ?

Next to every tag?

In all seriousness, to the people who will be confused and saying that others will be confused with the new tag term, you can legit click the ? next to each tag and it’ll take you straight to the wiki page to give you a general idea of what the tag is. If there is no description of what it is, you can either make the wiki page yourself (so long as it makes sense) or ask either a user or staff member.

Personally I couldn’t say if the change for less vulgar tags as really significant because I’ve never had my own character or my own character(s) categorized by someone else, even to the point where they could be blatantly wrong. The thing is though, why personally harass the admins when:

1. You’re stating that that’s harassment, so you’re blatantly saying that you want to start trouble.

2. You have alternative sites that are “so much better” in terms of what gender your character can be.

If anything, this site is alive and well because of the tagging system and dedication that the community puts out to post art to this archive. It’s not like (and I don’t believe) members are getting paid to do what they do, but the amount of dedication and organization put into this site is something that I feel people often overlook and in turn say “NoOOoOoO, it’s the admin’s fault” or when I go on Twitter and see people say “The admins are like a brick wall” or “They’re generally crude and hardasses.”

To end it off, if you really don’t think we’re making progress and we’re out to spite transgendered people because “we won’t tag characters trans” or “we’re still just using slurs”, then by all means, just find a site that more suits you and your needs. It definitely won’t be the last time a major tag is impacted in our community, and today isn’t the first, so when that time finally comes when whatever you want comes to pass, I sure hope that you could look pass the complaining aspect and that this site is plainly just organized.

On that note, I hope this essay gets at least a C+

Updated by anonymous

JadePrime said:
Wow, something that started in the 90's by gays and lesbians and another that clearly says 'The question of Elagabalus' sexual orientation is confused, owing to salacious and unreliable sources.'

Even if they were both good points, it's literally two, whereas homosexuality's naturalness has been proven tons upon tons of times.

Also 'transphobia' is mostly just a buzzword anyway, I do not hate trans people nor do I fear them.

The brain forms first in the womb, next comes the rest of the body. As a trans male, my ( male ) brain formed before the rest of my body. I ended up with ovaries instead of testes, which made my body form in a way that was in discordance with my brain's already established sex. Not hard to understand, really.

Updated by anonymous

In reading some of these comments that came before mine, I have this to say.

Soon there'll be no difference between man and woman, black and white, straight and non-straight.

We'll all just be the same shade of grey and The Complete Metropolis will be upon us all. If you haven't watched that film, you should, I saw it in high school and still remember it to this day.

More on-topic, I only realized these tags just recently and was wondering what they meant. I only know that "gyno" had something to do with women since, at least here in the USA, we're a very gyno-centric society. I guess it shouldn't be too hard for everyone with aliasing and all. Knowing what I know about the times we live in, I'm honestly surprised (which I don't say lightly at all) this didn't occur sooner.

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
The other important reason is that we want to foster a friendly environment for as many of our users as we can. This starts at using more formal / professional terms in our tagging; is why our ads are vetted manually, we don't serve pop-ups, pop-unders, allow no sound, and only display one banner per page; goes on to our community guidelines punishing trolling, abrasive behavior, harassment of all kinds, spam, insults, being OUTRIGHT CREEPY, etc.
Just because much of our content is pornographic, and thus vulgar by definition, does not mean that we shouldn't want to treat other people with respect. If we are excellent to our users, the chance is higher that our users are excellent to each other as well.
Changing those two tags is also simply in line with our other efforts to ensure that our page is just a bit more "professional" than other comparable pages.

My main problem with the crack down on “creepy comments” is that it mainly targeted sexually explicit comments. The only thing it accomplished was curbing vulgar comments. There are tons of creepy comments that were/are unaffected by the rules. I would post a few but I don’t want to put any one on blast. At least most of the creepy comments are secluded to creepy fetishes, so if people use their black list and segregate themselves from certain tags they should be good.

The best you can do is make this place less creepy on a individual level. It’s funny though, a community that preaches openness and your sexual preference is a expression of yourself, has to be so heavily segregated to keep people from jumping down each others throats.

Trying to sanitize the fandom to make it appealing to more people, which in turn makes it more profitable, is going to be the death of it. No matter how much you try to clean it up, people will still come in contact with the undesirable side of the fandom.

UgandaKnucklesYT said:
Brudda

I know it’s a custom where you come from but the staff is trying to make this place less vulgar, please refrain from spitting on the non-believers or forcing women to be your queen.

Chaser said:
I'll lock this thread if I have to.

CCoyote said:
Please?

This is a touchy subject for some people and so far the thread has been pretty good. If the mods give people the ability to voice their opinion, you shouldn’t get up set when they say things you don’t like. Things have gotten a little heated and mods brought it back under control, they’re doing a great job in that aspect.

Updated by anonymous

JeffreyDahmer said:
This is a touchy subject for some people and so far the thread has been pretty good. If the mods give people the ability to voice their opinion, you shouldn’t get up set when they say things you don’t like. Things have gotten a little heated and mods brought it back under control, they’re doing a great job in that aspect.

It was mostly a temporary threat to keep the thread under control until Nimmy got up. If I had to lock it, it would had been unlocked after he got up.

Updated by anonymous

Denix said:
To end it off, if you really don’t think we’re making progress and we’re out to spite transgendered people because “we won’t tag characters trans” or “we’re still just using slurs”

I'd like to address (not Denix specifically) that the question I had a few days ago regarding who, if anyone, was elected to decide what constitutes a slur still stands. I ask because I sincerely doubt that's something everyone agrees upon, and I'm genuinely curious what the proportion would be.

I guess really what I'm saying is I disagree with the pretext that "dickgirl" and "cuntboy" are slurs, and if you think they are, then I don't see why we should stop there. Someone surely considers "gynomorph" as much a slur as someone else thinks the word "dickgirl" is, especially considering the choice of the word "gynomorph" -- it necessarily implies a gender binary and even if I agree that this is an accurate portrayal of reality, someone at some point is bound to get upset because the context of the gender binary does not accurately represent their character. The underlying situation remains the same, the terms have only changed slightly and I don't see any reason to think we won't see this exact discussion come up again when "gynomorph" inevitably becomes some other tag.

Updated by anonymous

I was going to direct this at Darkhaven3, but honestly it is relevant to a lot of points that a lot of people have made. I'm going to talk a bit about the Nirvana Fallacy and the Perfect Solution Fallacy.

To summarize, these fallacies are in rejecting a solution which fixes some issues because it doesn't fix all of them, or some element of the problem still remains, or because they are inferior to some hypothetical better solution.

It is not necessary or possible to make everyone happy with the change of these words. No, they aren't perfect, and no one has claimed that they are. They are the best solution that the admins were able to come up with (or that anyone else was able to come up with, given the amount of discussion in the main forums too). The fact that some people will still complain isn't particularly relevant. People still die in car crashes while wearing seat belts - that doesn't mean wearing a seat belt is pointless.

Updated by anonymous

How long until shit like 'andromorph' becomes slang? Place your bets.

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
We are not a porn archive, we are a furry art archive. We host porn because that's what furry artist draw. We host more porn than safe posts because that's what furry artists predominantly draw. Get all furry artists to stop drawing porn for the next 10 years and the ratio of explicit posts to safe ones will plummet.

well if this site was made to host what furries draw.-> a porn site is made to be a host for porn -> furries draw predominately porn. -> this site was made to host porn-> e621 is a porn site -> e969 was made for the safe images of e621 -> e969 is not a porn site

e621 is marketed as a porn site. it was bought by BAD DRAGON a store for SEX TOYS
pornhub can also host not porn but that doesn't means it's not a porn site
and also why is it so bad for e621 to be called a porn site to you?

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
why is it so bad for e621 to be called a porn site to you?

Because we're an art archival site, not inherently a porn site. If we were a genuine full on porn site, we probably wouldn't have the quality standards we do now, and allow any and all pornographic furry material. Our standards for minimum quality reflects the fact that we want to archive relevant works of merit, regardless of it being pornographic or not. It's like deviantart but with a much stricter quality control. On deviantart, you can post drawn pornography, but that doesn't make it a porn site does it? It's an art site that happens to host porn.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
we probably wouldn't have the quality standards we do now

who the hell says porn sites can't have standards?

and Deviantart was not made to host porn it has a rule saying "no hardcore porn images"

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
who the hell says porn sites can't have standards?

Porn sites can have standards, sure, but even then they can be lax for certain NSFW works that technically aren't up to snuff but are super fetishy/smutty/etc and let them slide by. We don't do that, period, regardless of fetish/smut level value.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Porn sites can have standards, sure, but even then they can be lax for certain NSFW works that technically aren't up to snuff but are super fetishy/smutty/etc and let them slide by. We don't do that, period, regardless of fetish/smut level value.

then you're a porn site who doesn't have lax standards

and i also edited my first post to address another point

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

I only have like 5 minutes right now, so sorry for the places I need to leave a longer reply, but...

Did y'all know there was a time when people would flag rating:s pictures because they thought the site was only for pornography and other sexual tantalizing images?

We stated then, as we say now, this site is not only for pornography

Updated by anonymous

Chaser said:
> Nothing else changes, but now fingers will be pointed at those who say "cuntboy".

No? We are not banning the words, we are just making the officially tagged words different.

You are asserting these words are bad ("vulgar") enough to require major tag changes solely for this reason. Not because the tags are often misused, or poorly defined, or the whole idea is wrong, or whatever else, no. The words themselves are bad.

That's out of context, just addressing the sentence above. Within context, this thread is already full of posts discussing how the words "cuntboy" and "dickgirl" are offensive to some groups of people and shouldn't be used because of that. You can probably pretend to have never expected this, but realistically, that's exactly how changes of this kind are perceived. "Oh you used that dirty word everyone's getting rid of? Boo you!"

Also, recent Reddit history. They aren't banning, they are just quarantining. Wink win nudge nudge.

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
then you're a porn site who doesn't have lax standards

and i also edited my first post to address another point

Shyster5 said:
and Deviantart was not made to host porn it has a rule saying "no hardcore porn images"

Exactly, HARDCORE porn. Deviantart still hosts content filled with plenty of penises and pussies right in view, and other sexual stuff, otherwise source:deviantart would warrant 0 results that were non-safe.

post #1911643

Example A, which has a deviantart submission locked behind mature content of course.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Exactly, HARDCORE porn. Deviantart still hosts content filled with plenty of penises and pussies right in view, and other sexual stuff, otherwise source:deviantart would warrant 0 results that were non-safe.

post #1911643

Example A, which has a deviantart submission locked behind mature content of course.

and do you know why Deviantart has softcore porn images? because of an artistic nudity exception that gets EXPLOITED by people, not made for porn. stopping moving goalposts

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
and do you know why Deviantart has softcore porn images? because of an artistic nudity exception that gets EXPLOITED by people, not made for porn. stopping moving goalposts

Point is, this is similar to the classic rectangle and square situation. All squares are rectangles, no exception. To be a square, it needs to be a rectangle. However, rectangles aren't always going to be squares.

The furry porn is considered furry content and therefore relevant, but that doesn't make all of the content we consider relevant to be furry porn/exclusively porn.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
I only have like 5 minutes right now, so sorry for the places I need to leave a longer reply, but...

Did y'all know there was a time when people would flag rating:s pictures because they thought the site was only for pornography and other sexual tantalizing images?

We stated then, as we say now, this site is not only for pornography

and how would they get that confusion in the first place?
there being tons of porn being posted?

Updated by anonymous

People roleplay as Ugandan knuckles in fucking 2019? Seriously? Are these even adults?

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Point is, this is similar to the classic rectangle and square situation. All squares are rectangles, no exception. To be a square, it needs to be a rectangle. However, rectangles aren't always going to be squares.

The furry porn is considered furry content and therefore relevant, but that doesn't make all of the content we consider relevant to be furry porn/exclusively porn.

okay so yes e621 is an art site but that art is mostly porn and it was made knowing that it was mostly porn so it's also a porn site
see art site is the "quadrilateral" to porn site's "rectangle"
and i don't see why that's so bad

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
okay so yes e621 is an art site but that art is mostly porn and it was made knowing that it was mostly porn so it's also a porn site
see art site is the "quadrilateral" to porn site's "rectangle"
and i don't see why that's so bad

to classify, it's an archive for art. If it was simply an art site there wouldn't be quality standards.

Updated by anonymous

Versperus said:
to classify, it's an archive for art. If it was simply an art site there wouldn't be quality standards.

same difference, an archive for art is still an art site like one level down on the taxonomy totem pole or pyramid or whatever

Updated by anonymous

Hey in relation to this gynomorph andropmorph thing why not switch them around?
like from gynomorph for cuntboy and andromorph for dickgirl

for my reasons who's to say that the drawing aren't biologically female/male but then got the masculine/feminine trait of having a penis/vagina?

just throwing it out there

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
Hey in relation to this gynomorph andropmorph thing why not switch them around?
like from gynomorph for cuntboy and andromorph for dickgirl

for my reasons who's to say that the drawing aren't biologically female/male but then got the masculine/feminine trait of having a penis/vagina?

just throwing it out there

If you had been paying attention in biology classes you'd know that males are defined as the organisms that produce sperm, and last time I checked sperm isn't stored in the tits.

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
If you had been paying attention in biology classes you'd know that males are defined as the organisms that produce sperm, and last time I checked sperm isn't stored in the tits.

yeah everybody knows pee is stored in them. /joke

I got stuck on that "-morph" thing like yeah they produced sperm but then they got a vagina: gynomorph

Updated by anonymous

I just want to say that I support the changes. kbye

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Shyster5 said:
and how would they get that confusion in the first place?
there being tons of porn being posted?

Yes. But it was *problematic* for users to believe that a nice, family beach scene was not allowed on our website. Art like THIS was being flagged for deletion.

post #1411429 post #1398459 post #140735

Because it wasn't pornography. It was giving the staff more work. This was a problem. It doesn't matter if 98% of the posts were sexy, what mattered is that people were under the wrong impression and creating more work for the staff--not only in correcting the flags, but also in replying to comments where people are talking about how this kind of stuff isn't allowed. The wrong information was being spread around.

The solution to this is to spread the correct information.

So. I will repeat again. This is not a porn site. It is an art archive. We archive high quality non-human art. Much of it is furry, but not all of it. Much of it is porn, but not all of it. we are not a furry porn archive. We archive those things, but that is not our single purpose.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
Yes. But it was *problematic* for users to believe that a nice, family beach scene was not allowed on our website. Art like THIS was being flagged for deletion.

post #1411429 post #1398459 post #140735

Because it wasn't pornography. It was giving the staff more work. This was a problem. It doesn't matter if 98% of the posts were sexy, what mattered is that people were under the wrong impression and creating more work for the staff--not only in correcting the flags, but also in replying to comments where people are talking about how this kind of stuff isn't allowed. The wrong information was being spread around.

The solution to this is to spread the correct information.

So. I will repeat again. This is not a porn site. It is an art archive. We archive high quality non-human art. Much of it is furry, but not all of it. Much of it is porn, but not all of it. we are not a furry porn archive. We archive those things, but that is not our single purpose.

I appreciate you're making a point, but it would carry more gravity if your example images had a flagging history

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:
It was giving the staff more work.

this just makes it sound like you only allowed safe images because of laziness
not that i'm calling you lazy, it just sounds like it
and i'm not saying this site is exclusively a porn site, i'm just saying it is a porn site and that's not bad

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
The important thing you're missing here is that the complaints go either to Varka or me, and both of us love people screaming and making a scene. It's free entertainment given directly to us, and we have no corp above us telling us we can't tell them to go pound sand.

Personally I'm driven by spite, telling angry people no and getting 20 emails in the course of an hour in response is fucking hilarious.

You can rest assured, this change is not because of the screamers, whiners, guilt trippers, or any other sort of free entertainment provider. It was a conscious decision to be nicer to the moderate people that voiced their concerns in a polite and fair manner. Which is also why I very much insist that this isn't giving in to people, because those people that want us to give in are still screaming.

Super secret secrets, do not open
open at your own risk
opening this might kill you
abandon all hope ye who enter here

We're part of a sub-section of the Illuminati, known as the Illuminaughty. The goal with this tag change is to slowly prepare humanity for the coming of our all Lord and Savior: Horse Penis. The attack is two pronged: Bad Dragon produces animal penises marketed to the masses, making them slowly more and more socially acceptable by ensuring they look real fucking pretty. We're changing the vulgar tag types to be PG in order to ensure that people are more willing to use those terms, and thus normally people that look like females but have dicks. Soon our RD team will have figured out a way to create a strain of viruses that will enable us to naturally allow people to grow animal penises. Once the terms and penises have penetrated enough of society we will launch that strain and force every person on the planet to grow a massive horse sausage. Once forcing true world peace because nobody will ever have penis envy again.

They also might be too sore for war because they have to lug those monster penises around all day, we're still looking into ways on how to lessen the strain on people's backs and hearts to support those erections.

hah, you fools

we wouldn't have explained our master stroke if there remained even the slightest chance of you affecting the outcome

it's already happening

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
this just makes it sound like you only allowed safe images because of laziness
not that i'm calling you lazy, it just sounds like it
and i'm not saying this site is exclusively a porn site, i'm just saying it is a porn site and that's not bad

It's not though, it's an archive which is predominantly porn because that is what most people archive here, you should just try looking at all the rated:s stuff there is. Active posts on site alone number around 225000+ and that's not including deleted posts.

Updated by anonymous

mrcholemson said:
The brain forms first in the womb, next comes the rest of the body. As a trans male, my ( male ) brain formed before the rest of my body. I ended up with ovaries instead of testes, which made my body form in a way that was in discordance with my brain's already established sex. Not hard to understand, really.

Hey, not to step on anyone's toes but I don't want to leave this floating.
Sex is determined at fertilisation by the individual spermatozoon.
Outside the case of genuine intersex conditions that post is straight up anti-vax level misinformation.

Updated by anonymous

Versperus said:
It's not though, it's an archive which is predominantly porn because that is what most people archive here, you should just try looking at all the rated:s stuff there is. Active posts on site alone number around 225000+ and that's not including deleted posts.

"yes we do have mostly porn, and people come for the porn, and this site was made to host porn, but that doesn't make us a porn site"
"why?"
"because we have these cute asf images too"
"ah shit ya"

this is still a porn site and the safe images are just a bonus
gelbooru was made for hentai and it too has safe images

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Because we're an art archival site, not inherently a porn site. If we were a genuine full on porn site, we probably wouldn't have the quality standards we do now, and allow any and all pornographic furry material. Our standards for minimum quality reflects the fact that we want to archive relevant works of merit, regardless of it being pornographic or not. It's like deviantart but with a much stricter quality control. On deviantart, you can post drawn pornography, but that doesn't make it a porn site does it? It's an art site that happens to host porn.

This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. I'd like to extend this logic by declaring that PornHub is not a porn site, because it too allows you to upload non-pornographic content. This has been an experience. Thank you.

Updated by anonymous

abscondler said:
This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. I'd like to extend this logic by declaring that PornHub is not a porn site, because it too allows you to upload non-pornographic content. This has been an experience. Thank you.

Pornhub's like youtube, it allows any low effort schlock video. Here we focus on works that are on higher standards in comparison.

The site hosting a lot of NSFW material doesn't make it a porn site. Lots of sites do, such as subsets of reddit, pixiv, furaffinity, etc. I could go on. Yes, a lot of it is porn, but that doesn't make it a site dedicated to and deliberately made for only hosting porn and porn alone.

Also, if you're not going to provide any productive responses besides weirdly snarky comments, perhaps you should stop.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Pornhub's like youtube, it allows any low effort schlock video. Here we focus on works that are on higher standards in comparison.

The site hosting a lot of NSFW material doesn't make it a porn site. Lots of sites do, such as subsets of reddit, pixiv, furaffinity, etc. I could go on. Yes, a lot of it is porn, but that doesn't make it a site dedicated to and deliberately made for only hosting porn and porn alone.

Also, if you're not going to provide any productive responses besides weirdly snarky comments, perhaps you should stop.

"how is e621 not a porn site"
"because we have standards"
"who the hell says porn sites don't have standards"
"I do, and I also say that they can"
???????

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
"why is e621 not a porn site"
"because we have standards"
"who the hell says porn sites don't have standards"
"I do, but I also say that they can"

Yeah I see this isn't going anywhere from the "this is a porn site" subject and is just constantly cycling, so I'm just gonna disengage if you're going to keep replying with the same shit.

That way we can get more like. Productive replies about the actual subject of the tag name changes and not if the site qualifies as a porn site or not lmao

Updated by anonymous

abscondler said:
This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. I'd like to extend this logic by declaring that PornHub is not a porn site, because it too allows you to upload non-pornographic content. This has been an experience. Thank you.

https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Ahome
Our mission: To archive the best/strangest/most excellent animal/anthro-related artwork, regardless of content, for all those who wish to view it.

https://www.pornhub.com/information#faq
Pornhub is the #1 free porn site in the world with hundreds of thousands of free videos, including free HD and downloading capabilities.

This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the word "porn" anywhere in the e621 page, while in the PornHub page, it's literally saying that it's a porn site. This has been an experience. Thank you.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Yeah I see this isn't going anywhere from the "this is a porn site" subject and is just constantly cycling, so I'm just gonna stop if you're going to keep replying with the same way. That way we can get more like. Productive replies about the actual subject of the tag name changes and not if the site qualifies as a porn site or not lmao

you(the admins) keep on answering the questions with that so this is actually really important to your argument

Updated by anonymous

yFlash said:
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Ahome
Our mission: To archive the best/strangest/most excellent animal/anthro-related artwork, regardless of content, for all those who wish to view it.

https://www.pornhub.com/information#faq
Pornhub is the #1 free porn site in the world with hundreds of thousands of free videos, including free HD and downloading capabilities.

This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the word "porn" anywhere in the e621 page, while in the PornHub page, it's literally saying that it's a porn site. This has been an experience. Thank you.

Oh so you just have to say you're a porn site to qualify as a porn site
And nothing else matters

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf

Former Staff

Versperus said:
I appreciate you're making a point, but it would carry more gravity if your example images had a flagging history

Versp. Are you seriously asking me to travel back like 8 years in my memory, to try and remember what posts were flagged? when, at the time, they were dealt with quickly and with annoyance because it was a very clear non issue??

I picked pretty safe images I personalyl uploaded so I could find quality images.

Ffs. Alright, I found a way to search. Here are the first few I found.

Bear in mind that the following posts are old and grandfathered in. some of them would not be accepted today.

post #22645 post #18802 post #28454 post #29323 post #41497 post #43799 post #131518

There.

Shyster5 said:
this just makes it sound like you only allowed safe images because of laziness
not that i'm calling you lazy, it just sounds like it
and i'm not saying this site is exclusively a porn site, i'm just saying it is a porn site and that's not bad

... no, we allow safe images because we are an art archive. If we were lazy, we'd accept humans and have no quality standards.

the point of my statement is that letting people state false information was creating misunderstanding and creating unnecessary work o.O also, it was false information! They were ignorant, not malicious, but we wanted people to feel free to upload safe art too.

Updated by anonymous

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Pornhub's like youtube, it allows any low effort schlock video. Here we focus on works that are on higher standards in comparison.

The site hosting a lot of NSFW material doesn't make it a porn site. Lots of sites do, such as subsets of reddit, pixiv, furaffinity, etc. I could go on. Yes, a lot of it is porn, but that doesn't make it a site dedicated to and deliberately made for only hosting porn and porn alone.

Also, if you're not going to provide any productive responses besides weirdly snarky comments, perhaps you should stop.

That's a fair point. e621 sets itself apart by only allowing quality content and now it's taking extra steps to avoid offending people.

yFlash said:
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Ahome
Our mission: To archive the best/strangest/most excellent animal/anthro-related artwork, regardless of content, for all those who wish to view it.

https://www.pornhub.com/information#faq
Pornhub is the #1 free porn site in the world with hundreds of thousands of free videos, including free HD and downloading capabilities.

This line of logic is incredible. I feel enlightened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the word "porn" anywhere in the e621 page, while in the PornHub page, it's literally saying that it's a porn site. This has been an experience. Thank you.

>"We're an archive site, not a porn site!"
>[Weird sex toy joke directly following that statement]

You have me fully convinced. They said they're an archive site, therefor it does not matter that 95% of the userbase comes here exclusively for porn. I can't wait for the day that RedTube declares itself an archive site, thereby immediately and unquestionably denouncing itself as a porn site.

Updated by anonymous

SnowWolf said:

... no, we allow safe images because we are an art archive. If we were lazy, we'd accept humans and have no quality standards.

the point of my statement is that letting people state false information was creating misunderstanding and creating unnecessary work o.O also, it was false information! They were ignorant, not malicious, but we wanted people to feel free to upload safe art too.

Most of those picture you posted were also flagged as being not furry and they also featured humans, what's up with that?
oh right grandfathered in, duh

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
this is still a porn site and the safe images are just a bonus
gelbooru was made for hentai and it too has safe images

If your only qualifying criteria on whether a page is porn site or not is the presence of at least one porn image that's allowed by the rules then technically yes, we're a porn site. But that's like arguing scissors are knives because you can cut things and stab people with them. And technically you can absolutely make the point that scissors are just 2 weird knives stuck together by a bolt or screw, and you'd also be technically correct, but that definition glosses over a lot of things for the sake of unnecessary simplicity.

We're an furry art archive first because we do not make any distinction between what types of furry art we accept or not accept, neither our rules nor uploading guidelines make a distinction between regular art or porn, the differences only happen in our tagging guidelines.

Do we host porn? Absolutely.
Do we host shitloads of the stuff? Undeniably.
Is porn our main focus of the page? No, it's just a result of the fandom.

Updated by anonymous

So I like the changes. I didn't personally mind dickgirl that much, but I don't like cuntboy at all, but that's just me and my opinion, and if people didn't like it enough that enough of them got together for long enough for it to be changed, then, so be it I guess?

I almost always use "intersex" to search since it picks up everything I look for anyway(is it aliased? I didn't actually even know that was a thing).

But if people are saying the new terms are confusing, maybe there could be an argument to be made to start looking for better terms? "We'll use these in the meantime but we're actively looking for something better" could alleviate like 95% of the concerns I've seen raised. Yes, I did read literally all 17 pages of this, from top to bottom.

Hell, if you have to, just literally make up new terms. It's pretty close to what you already did, even if you used old word roots, but they're not used in the way you presented them(aside from the "gyno" and "andro" parts) in current parlance which is what caused the confusion.

Maybe just make them "guybitsgirl" and "girlbitsguy", I dunno, if you want to remove the vulgarity but still keep the function the old words had.

Because even if the old words are offensive, they extremely accurately and succinctly expressed what they were in words that most everyone understood. The new words should do that, not introduce even more confusion than the old ones did.

And as we can see from the 17 prior pages to this one, there's a lot of confusion. Maybe if you just created new terms wholecloth that as-simply described what people could see they'd be a lot more easily accepted by both sides?

I don't think "guybitsgirl" or "girlbitsguy" are particularly good examples, but they're not vulgar and just-as-accurately convey the meanings of what the old words did.

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
If your only qualifying criteria on whether a page is porn site or not is the presence of at least one porn image that's allowed by the rules then technically yes, we're a porn site.

way to simplify my argument. yes, twitter, reddit, instagram, imgur, deviantart, wikipedia, and most every sites are porn sites because of at least one image
but I'm Not saying that and I don't know how you can get that from my argument of " if you're majority porn, you're a porn site" unless you're trying to vilify me

Do we host porn? Absolutely.
Do we host shitloads of the stuff? Undeniably.
Is porn our main focus of the page? No, it's just a result of the fandom.

if a fandom is the main focus of a page, it would stand to reason that the main focus of the fandom is also the main focus of the page

like let's say you are host a site for a cat fandom
and in this cat fandom the main focus is on lolcat images
it only makes sense that you would think there would be a majority of lolcat images on the site

Updated by anonymous

Slywyn said:
I almost always use "intersex" to search since it picks up everything I look for anyway(is it aliased? I didn't actually even know that was a thing).

No, it's implicated. From a bunch of '*intersex*' tags, maleherm, gynomorph, andromorph, herm (and probably others).
You can always find out the aliasing/implication status of a tag by reading its wiki entry (even if its wiki entry has no content; the alias/implication status is automatically added to the rendered page.)

And as we can see from the 17 prior pages to this one, there's a lot of confusion. Maybe if you just created new terms wholecloth that as-simply described what people could see they'd be a lot more easily accepted by both sides?

I'm pretty sure this line of thought is what resulted in the terms cuntboy and dickgirl (as well as dickgirl's predecessor, shemale), in the first place.

They're pretty literal, and it's hard to say that their textual implications really differ substantially from the current andromorph, gynomorph. It seems to me a reasonable question whether any given set of terms, once it becomes generally accepted, will eventually be construed as a slur (because becoming generally accepted leads to bastardization, eg. using it expressly to cause offense, or using it expressly to bully people with claims of offense)

ie. I'm not optimistic about 'non vulgarity' because the word is still being used for what it was previously used for. The history of the words 'idiot -> moron -> retard -> special -> autistic' is a good example of how the new, theoretically inoffensive term becomes the latest slur.

I am by no means against looking for better terms, that does seem like it's probably a good idea.

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
way to simplify my argument. yes, twitter, reddit, instagram, imgur, deviantart, wikipedia, and most every sites are porn sites because of at least one image
but I'm Not saying that and I don't know how you can get that from my argument of " if you're majority porn, you're a porn site" unless you're trying to vilify me

I'm pretty confident you underestimate just how much porn is on reddit, twitter, and imgur. Even if it's hidden from view the stuff is still very much there and easily accessible.

Shyster5 said:
if a fandom is the main focus of a page, it would stand to reason that the main focus of the fandom is also the main focus of the page

like let's say you are host a site for a cat fandom
and in this cat fandom the main focus is on lolcat images
it only makes sense that you would think there would be a majority of lolcat images on the site

That argument still makes no sense. We're not interested in everything the furry fandom does, only in the artwork. We neither allow fursuits, nor statues, nor con pictures, nor similar. The porn is merely a result of our decision to host all furry artwork, it's part of the focus but not the focus.

Updated by anonymous

savageorange said:
I'm pretty sure this line of thought is what resulted in the terms cuntboy and dickgirl (as well as dickgirl's predecessor, shemale), in the first place.

They're pretty literal, and it's hard to say that their textual implications really differ substantially from the current andromorph, gynomorph. It seems to me a reasonable question whether any given set of terms, once it becomes generally accepted, will eventually be construed as a slur (because becoming generally accepted leads to bastardization, eg. using it expressly to cause offense, or using it expressly to bully people with claims of offense)

ie. I'm not optimistic about 'non vulgarity' because the word is still being used for what it was previously used for. The history of the words 'idiot -> moron -> retard -> special -> autistic' is a good example of how the new, theoretically inoffensive term becomes the latest slur.

I am by no means against looking for better terms, that does seem like it's probably a good idea.

Well, I think at least some of the problem is that the new terms seem to be both confusing and offensive at the same time, even though they're seeking to be less offensive. The only aim they succeed in is being less vulgar, but they're losing form and function to do so, so I don't really think they're a success even if they ARE less vulgar.

At least creating a new term could be done with at least the intent to create something better than the old ones were, which with the other examples(dickgirl, shemale, etc) I don't necessarily know if that was the case? It could be, in which case RIP me, I just don't know the history of the terms, unfortunately.

So will we likely find a solution that makes everyone happy? ... no. But it does seem like the current solution is particularly controversial, so at least making an effort to find a new one might be a good idea? It's entirely possible they're already doing this and we just don't know about it.

To be completely fair, though, you can still use the old terms(and I imagine most people will still use the old terms when searching) so for the people who aren't going to actively use the new terms, nothing at all has changed, so I don't really see where the pushback comes from- in the like, 'why was it changed' camp, anyway.

From people who aren't happy with the new terms because they're confusing or they still find them offensive... do you have solutions to offer? Early in the thread there were a few people responding who were really angry with the current solution, but I didn't really see any new options presented. I feel like they could have suggested something they would have preferred? Some did say that they think the entire gender/sex system should be done away with, but I think some of the staff who responded already pointed out that would be far more work than they're willing to undertake at the moment. At least seeing a possible workable-in-the-moment solution suggested would have been appreciated.

Updated by anonymous

NotMeNotYou said:
I'm pretty confident you underestimate just how much porn is on reddit, twitter, and imgur. Even if it's hidden from view the stuff is still very much there and easily accessible.

what about wikipedia huh?
that has several porn images on it, it must be a porn site/s

That argument still makes no sense. We're not interested in everything the furry fandom does, only in the artwork. We neither allow fursuits, nor statues, nor con pictures, nor similar. The porn is merely a result of our decision to host all furry artwork, it's part of the focus but not the focus.

https://e621.net/post/index/1/fursuit%20real
https://e621.net/post/index/1/statue%20real

if the main focus of this site is "what furries draw" the main focus of those drawings is the main focus of this site, but the main focus doesn't have to be the only focus, it's that the other foci are supplemental

If this isn't a porn site how come i can see porn avatars on safe images
or how come there can be porn avatars in general?
or how come there isn't any surprise or shock that there is porn avatars?
there are several porn avatars in this thread right now and nobody bats an eye. it's almost like it's to be expected. even a guy was saying this isn't a porn site, while having a porn avatar.

Updated by anonymous

I'm pretty confident you underestimate just how much porn is on reddit, twitter, and imgur. Even if it's hidden from view the stuff is still very much there and easily accessible.

Oh and the thing about reddit you got other admins in this very thread saying it's not a porn site, but then you come along and say it is? who do i believe?

Updated by anonymous

Slywyn said:
...Some did say that they think the entire gender/sex system should be done away with,...

For #### sake, that was absurdist hyperbole on my part because no matter what you do someone's going to be upset. As has been stated every time it's been brought that would be both impractical, and would only serve to make the site actively less usable as trying to specify male/female without tags is a logistical nightmare.
Guess I'll say again for all the people who can't be bothered with reading through the 18 pages so far, I myself am not a huge fan of the chosen terms as they're for all intents and purposes completely arbitrary terms unless you happen to know (ancient?) greek fluently that have zero meaning to any average person who comes across them here, not to mention because of their original use cases, it's not truly entirely applicable as being used here.
While strictly speaking this suggestion isn't as non-jankey as the chosen terms, male_with_pussy and female_with_penis not only serves the exact same function as cuntboy and dickgirl without any ambiguity, it also doesn't require happening to know some form of literal greek to do so. And to add to conversation that's happened since the initial suggestion, it's literally impossible for any amount of mutated "vulgarity" to come around those terms because they're literally nothing more than a literal description, and without the 'punchiness' required for swear words to develop either.

Updated by anonymous

Anonomn said:
For #### sake, that was absurdist hyperbole on my part because no matter what you do someone's going to be upset. As has been stated every time it's been brought that would be both impractical, and would only serve to make the site actively less usable as trying to specify male/female without tags is a logistical nightmare.
Guess I'll say again for all the people who can't be bothered with reading through the 18 pages so far, I myself am not a huge fan of the chosen terms as they're for all intents and purposes completely arbitrary terms unless you happen to know (ancient?) greek fluently that have zero meaning to any average person who comes across them here, not to mention because of their original use cases, it's not truly entirely applicable as being used here.
While strictly speaking this suggestion isn't as non-jankey as the chosen terms, male_with_pussy and female_with_penis not only serves the exact same function as cuntboy and dickgirl without any ambiguity, it also doesn't require happening to know some form of literal greek to do so. And to add to conversation that's happened since the initial suggestion, it's literally impossible for any amount of mutated "vulgarity" to come around those terms because they're literally nothing more than a literal description, and without the 'punchiness' required for swear words to develop either.

I literally stated that I read all the pages. There was actually a legitimate suggestion to do away with the system and tag only by visible parts.

Updated by anonymous

Slywyn said:
I literally stated that I read all the pages. There was actually a legitimate suggestion to do away with the system and tag only by visible parts.

I wasn't referring to you with the latter 2/3rds of my statement as far as "all the people who can't be bothered with reading through the 18 pages so far", as multiple times so far other people have jumped in with a opinion without bothering to read the rest of the thread.
And I've been in here since around page 7 (and did my due reading through beforehand) and been here since, the only time "removing male/female tags" has been brought up was in direct or semi-direct reference to the initial post I made about it, which was again, as absurdist hyperbole. If there's at least one thing I can guarantee drives everybody up the wall is when someone says something in jest and it then gets taken seriously through the perpetual game of telephone. Lets be better than that and not do that.

Updated by anonymous

Anonomn said:
I wasn't referring to you with the latter 2/3rds of my statement as far as "all the people who can't be bothered with reading through the 18 pages so far", as multiple times so far other people have jumped in with a opinion without bothering to read the rest of the thread.
And I've been in here since around page 7 (and did my due reading through beforehand) and been here since, the only time "removing male/female tags" has been brought up was in direct or semi-direct reference to the initial post I made about it, which was again, as absurdist hyperbole. If there's at least one thing I can guarantee drives everybody up the wall is when someone says something in jest and it then gets taken seriously through the perpetual game of telephone. Lets be better than that and not do that.

If people think it's worth suggesting(even after having it pointed out that the original suggestion theirs is born from was hyperbole), it shouldn't be dismissed just because the original suggestion was hyperbole.

Even if the suggestion isn't realistic, the fact that it keeps coming up as an actual suggestion should probably suggest there is some merit and interest in the idea.

Even if it isn't feasible to implement.

Updated by anonymous

Shyster5 said:
https://e621.net/post/index/1/fursuit%20real
https://e621.net/post/index/1/statue%20real

https://e621.net/wiki/show/uploading_guidelines
"Any submission before 2015 has been grandfathered in and does not need to reflect our current or future guidelines. In fact, there is a substantial amount of old art that would be deleted under the current guidelines, the existence of those old submissions do not validate or invalidate anything on this list."

Updated by anonymous

Went and slowly skimmed every single page so far for every single instance of any suggestion of removing male/female tags,
Page 7: Myself;
"I'd almost say throw out the notion of male/female all together, but given that aside from a small fraction of art this change actually applies to, literally just "Male" or "Female" in the general tags is still perfectly valid, highlighting how insignificant this all is in relation to the wider site."
Page 8: Ninosi (In direct response to my previous message);
"You used the words "almost say throw out the notion of male/female" so I doubt this was a 100% serious suggestion, but I'll still talk about it.
The gender/gender tags streamline searching. Without them, for example, if I wanted to find images of gay males, I'd have to search male -female -intersex -solo and even then not all of them aren't guaranteed to have any romantic or sexual context. That's not even mentioning if I wanted to search other tags along with it. Regular members can only search 6 tags at once, so this becomes problematic quickly."
Page 8: Myself (In direct response to Ninosi);
"Yes that was completely hyperbole on my part from a combination of the fact TWYS accounts for what is literally there, and male/female encompasses a myriad of specifics that could be equally served by only listing those things out individually, and the fact a small subsection of people are always gonna be butthurt by the very notion 99% of people are in fact strictly male or female I wouldn't remotely want to genuinely suggest getting rid of them, for exactly the reasons you said."
Page 8: Ninosi (In direct response to my previous message);
"Ah, I think I misunderstood you a bit in my last post. I thought you meant the tags like male/male or male/female being removed. You meant just removing gender tags in general and then labeling their parts instead.
Either way, it's an interesting point you make. It'd be nice not to have to use labels like male, female, or intersex at all, but we just wouldn't have any kind of effective search engine at that point.
Sure, someone is always going to be upset that their character or art is mislabeled, that's inevitable. However, its changes like the the new andromorph and gynomorph tags that are going to make a lot of people more comfortable."
Page 8: Myself (In direct response to Ninosi);
"I wouldn't want to get rid of male/female/intersex tags, again the initial statement was hyperbole, given that there's a limit on number of things that can be searched in one go, and with "Tag what you see" without the physical sex tags it makes it literally impossible to differentiate from a lithe male and a equally lithe female who's flat chested, both wearing pants and no discernible buldge, with tags."
Page 9: Mario;
"Alternates that I have heard of have been not tagging genders at all (only tagging body shape and genitalia) which would most likely end up extremely badly considering how many use those terms or excluding genders from TWYS"
Page 9: Myself (In direct response to Mario);
"I just want to repeat that 'suggestion' was still a hyperbole on my part and wasn't remotely intended to be a serious suggestion, given that would throw a massive monkey wrench into the tag system that's already held together with bubblegum and a prayer in the more precarious parts."
Page 18, Slywyn;
"Some did say that they think the entire gender/sex system should be done away with, but I think some of the staff who responded already pointed out that would be far more work than they're willing to undertake at the moment."
Page 18, Myself (In direct response to Slywyn);
"For #### sake, that was absurdist hyperbole on my part because no matter what you do someone's going to be upset. As has been stated every time it's been brought that would be both impractical, and would only serve to make the site actively less usable as trying to specify male/female without tags is a logistical nightmare."

Etc. As we're on the current page. If I missed anything, I'm genuinely sorry, but given how I've been here the entire time since page 7, that's unlikely. The point of that exercise is, literally at no point did anyone seriously suggest to remove male/female tags. The initial statement was, again, mine as absurdist hyperbole, and every single other mention was either conversation between myself and someone else, or someone making reference to my 'suggestion'. Not a single person ever genuinely said that as a genuine direct suggestion.
I'm not annoyed at the suggestion itself, i'm annoyed at the misconstrusion of what what I had stated, again, in jest.

On a unrelated note, the first direct message about how the selected terms don't really apply was:
Page 4: Lyxolf;
"So you changed dickgirl, which is to imply: Girl with dick.
And cuntboy, which is to imply: Boy with twat.
To:
Gynomorph, which means: Boy with femme features.
Andromorph, which means: Girl with masc features.
Great, you completely misunderstand the words and their connotations."
And also, it wasn't until about page 5 that all the hard 'trans' discussion finally stopped being so unrelenting.
At least four people brought up the exact same points of "No one knows what the hell a "andromorph" or "gynomorph" is" before page 7, and one person suggested 'female_(male_genitals) and male_(female_genitals)', a similar but slightly even more clunky variant of male_with_pussy and female_with_penis before page 7.

Updated by anonymous