Hopefully people actually read this, because I'm getting sick of seeing things tagged wrong under this tag. I want to clear things up:

Andromorph is NOT an android character of any kind, nor is it synonymous with ambiguous_gender, nor is it a herm or maleherm (these seem to be the top 3 mis-tags I've seen).

Andromorph is an intersex character with a mostly male body and male features, but has a vagina and no other sexual appendages, or a FTM trans character (post-mastectomy and pre-op).

Please, people, think before you tag. Look the tag definitions up. If it's still unclear, please don't tag it, and instead put a "tagme" for assistance.

Report the individuals using the tag wrong.

It is a shame that they changed the words, they used to be so clear and simple that almost anyone could get it, now they use words that if you don't look them up you'd have no idea what they mean.

easy way to remember the PC terms is; Andro is Cuntboy, Gyno is Dickgirl.

somerandomvoir said:
It is a shame that they changed the words, they used to be so clear and simple that almost anyone could get it, now they use words that if you don't look them up you'd have no idea what they mean.

Thats how the thought-police operate; confuse, distract, divide, and deny, until they win.

marflebark said:
Thats how the thought-police operate; confuse, distract, divide, and deny, until they win.

e621 mods are the thought police?

somerandomvoir said:
It is a shame that they changed the words, they used to be so clear and simple that almost anyone could get it, now they use words that if you don't look them up you'd have no idea what they mean.

It's not as if these terms are inherently unclear.
People understand "masc-" and "fem-" just fine, and yet there are more words that use "andro" than those that use "masc". If you know how "android" differs from "gynoid", or how the word "androgyny" came to be, then you understand "andromorph" just fine. Never mind that this is a site where the meaning of "anthropomorph" is common knowledge.

strikerman said:
e621 mods are the thought police?

expecting people to expand their vocabularies to use words that are more accurate to the definition of the things they represent is thought policing

somerandomvoir said:
It is a shame that they changed the words, they used to be so clear and simple that almost anyone could get it, now they use words that if you don't look them up you'd have no idea what they mean.

marflebark said:
easy way to remember the PC terms is; Andro is Cuntboy, Gyno is Dickgirl.

Thats how the thought-police operate; confuse, distract, divide, and deny, until they win.

Because 'anthropomorphic' was so hard to learn and remember?

strikerman said:
e621 mods are the thought police?

In some small way, yes, but I was talking about the PC infiltrators who come in and get everything changed to suit their ideology and what they think is correct, dividing, denying, correcting, and confusing, with made-up words and fanciful terms, to replace everything we have and know.

misschu said:
Because 'anthropomorphic' was so hard to learn and remember?

Because 1984.

what?

marflebark said:
In some small way, yes, but I was talking about the PC infiltrators who come in and get everything changed to suit their ideology and what they think is correct, dividing, denying, correcting, and confusing, with made-up words and fanciful terms, to replace everything we have and know.

Because 1984.

Are you seriously comparing using less offensive language to the complete and utter subjugation of the masses?

marflebark said:
In some small way, yes, but I was talking about the PC infiltrators who come in and get everything changed to suit their ideology and what they think is correct, dividing, denying, correcting, and confusing, with made-up words and fanciful terms, to replace everything we have and know.

Because 1984.

You cannot be serious.
Tags got changed. That is the absolute extent of the changes you're complaining about. You can still say "cuntboy". You can still say "dickgirl". You can even use those tags and they'll still be replaced with the new ones. Hell, you can even run a userscript to reverse the change altogether, and make it so that every instance of "andromorph" and "gynomorph" is replaced with the previous terms. You can post site-relevant nazi art. You can post site-relevant art with slurs, comments too when they're not just outright abusive. You can post site-relevant blackface. You can post porn of imaginary children.

How does any of that reflect "PC infiltrators"?

All words are made up, and if you find attempts to use language that's more polite "confusing", that's on you.

iceink said:
expecting people to expand their vocabularies to use words that are more accurate to the definition of the things they represent is thought policing

That's the hilarious thing, as, the NEW terms are actually WAY less accurate. Lets use dickgirl for an example. Simple, easy to understand, girl with dick, dickgirl. Now lets look at Gynomorphs definition: To have female shape. Yeah I don't see the part where it says she has a penis, it, the definition really doesn't imply such a thing either. Plus it's a word no one has really used up to now where dickgirl and cuntboy are extremely common terms used for it.

Say what you want about 'offensive language' but moving the goalpost by changing the words doesn't fix anything, it just eventually changes the words used...

somerandomvoir said:
That's the hilarious thing, as, the NEW terms are actually WAY less accurate. Lets use dickgirl for an example. Simple, easy to understand, girl with dick, dickgirl. Now lets look at Gynomorphs definition: To have female shape. Yeah I don't see the part where it says she has a penis, it, the definition really doesn't imply such a thing either. Plus it's a word no one has really used up to now where dickgirl and cuntboy are extremely common terms used for it.

Say what you want about 'offensive language' but moving the goalpost by changing the words doesn't fix anything, it just eventually changes the words used...

This is just objectively wrong. If anything, the "new" terms have a much longer history behind them than "cuntboy" and "dickgirl", with my own study finding "gynomorph" showing up as early as a 19th-century Greek-English dictionary.
Gynomorph is used in mythological and religious contexts, and both gyno- and andro- see use in biological contexts, to describe one sex taking minor characteristics from another: like andromorphs having vaginas, but otherwise male sex characteristics.

lafcadio said:
This is just objectively wrong. If anything, the "new" terms have a much longer history behind them than "cuntboy" and "dickgirl", with my own study finding "gynomorph" showing up as early as a 19th-century Greek-English dictionary.
Gynomorph is used in mythological and religious contexts, and both gyno- and andro- see use in biological contexts, to describe one sex taking minor characteristics from another: like andromorphs having vaginas, but otherwise male sex characteristics.

When I say history, I mean usage by common folk, either way you're missing the point. Dickgirl and cuntboy were simple, ya didn't need to look up what they meant because they were self-contained definitions. Sure they're a little crude but their bluntness made them extremely easy to understand.

If you didn't know what gynomorph meant, looked it up, you'd still be confused because it doesn't clearly describe the thing that you want. Look up the word, most of the results will say the same thing, the point is it's not as clear and it just makes things more difficult especially with newer users.

somerandomvoir said:
When I say history, I mean usage by common folk, either way you're missing the point. Dickgirl and cuntboy were simple, ya didn't need to look up what they meant because they were self-contained definitions. Sure they're a little crude but their bluntness made them extremely easy to understand.

If you didn't know what gynomorph meant, looked it up, you'd still be confused because it doesn't clearly describe the thing that you want. Look up the word, most of the results will say the same thing, the point is it's not as clear and it just makes things more difficult especially with newer users.

Bat is aliased to chiropteran, deer is aliased to cervine, bear is aliased to ursid, for the purposes of this site precise language is (generally) valued more than the initial moments of confusion that this may cause.

somerandomvoir said:
When I say history, I mean usage by common folk, either way you're missing the point. Dickgirl and cuntboy were simple, ya didn't need to look up what they meant because they were self-contained definitions. Sure they're a little crude but their bluntness made them extremely easy to understand.

If you didn't know what gynomorph meant, looked it up, you'd still be confused because it doesn't clearly describe the thing that you want. Look up the word, most of the results will say the same thing, the point is it's not as clear and it just makes things more difficult especially with newer users.

The old tags were aliased, People can still use them. Your argument either is just from a place of lacking info or bait.

demesejha said:
The old tags were aliased, People can still use them. Your argument either is just from a place of lacking info or bait.

I'm talking about someone who hasn't used the site before. Picture this, you're new to e6, you don't know what most of what anything does. You go to a picture of a dickgirl and you notice that the tags to the left describe things in the image, or species of characters ect. There's also a male in the picture, so you look over and huh, there's a tag for male. Okay, so, what tag is for the girl with a penis? With so many other tags and most people not even knowing what the word 'gynomorph' means, as it's not a commonly used term, a new user may end up confused to which tag refers to such a thing or if there even is a tag.

Then they click on the tag and learn about it and understand when and where to use it, just as with the other examples I listed.

somerandomvoir said:
I'm talking about someone who hasn't used the site before. Picture this, you're new to e6, you don't know what most of what anything does. You go to a picture of a dickgirl and you notice that the tags to the left describe things in the image, or species of characters ect. There's also a male in the picture, so you look over and huh, there's a tag for male. Okay, so, what tag is for the girl with a penis? With so many other tags and most people not even knowing what the word 'gynomorph' means, as it's not a commonly used term, a new user may end up confused to which tag refers to such a thing or if there even is a tag.

Like Strikerman said, they can click the ? next to tags. And/or ask questions in the comments, or the e621 discord or wherever.

There's no pleasing everyone. No matter what tag is used someone will find a reason to complain.

Cursed thread, but honestly 90% of discussion about tagging is garbage regardless of context.

The andro/gynomorph tags are a little weird to look at but as long as it keeps the site mechanisms functional and results in less angry people pulling down art, I'll enjoy popping into these threads to laugh at all this absolutely flaccid argument going on.

magnuseffect said:
as long as it keeps the site mechanisms functional and results in less angry people pulling down art

Is that the main reason they were changed? I thought they were 'vulgar' terms.

pichi said:
Is that the main reason they were changed? I thought they were 'vulgar' terms.

Here's the original thread if you're interested.

https://e621.net/forum_topics/16378

kemonophonic said:
Here's the original thread if you're interested.

https://e621.net/forum_topics/16378

NGL that post is condescending as hell. Conflating dickgirl and cuntboy with trans when they ain't got anything to do with each other.

pichi said:
Is that the main reason they were changed? I thought they were 'vulgar' terms.

I'm more concerned with the effect than the cause.
I'm not representing the views or opinions of site administration or any other user here, please do not misrepresent me.

pichi said:
NGL that post is condescending as hell. Conflating dickgirl and cuntboy with trans when they ain't got anything to do with each other.

Im not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you, when other users have multiple times.

Those words have been used as slurs to refer to trans folks for a long time, you can read the entire thread if you want, but it doesnt seem you'll change youir mind or care about whats being discussed.

Either way this entire thread is a wash.

demesejha said:
Those words have been used as slurs to refer to trans folks for a long time

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but could you provide some examples?

strikerman said:
Maybe I missed it in the thread, but could you provide some examples?

I mean... Im going to assume this is in earnest and not you sealioning.

But, its been brought up in the thread yeah.

The fundamental issue is threefold. First off its been used as a term to apply to trans porn for years now, since the 90s in the days of icq, you talk to someone and say youre trans? You get slapped with the label. Its use has been an alternative or partner to other fantastic (yes thats sarcasm) words as Ladyboy, Shemale and the ever so wonderful Trap. Which seems to be ever present.

Second, it takes our identities and boils us down to our genitals, which in a lot of cases is the flat source of gender dysphoria for a lot of trans folks. You literally say that "oh this person has a penis. Or this person has a vagina. Double that issue with the fact that the words are Dick (an insult) and Cunt (also a vulgar insult, one thats even considered libellous in certain English speaking places.) And youre literally blanket referring to all trans people as either Dicks or Cunts.

I dont think I need to explain why that might be an issue.

I cannot give you specific examples, Im on mobile, but that shouldn't matter right now, it can be looked into on any pornsite that hasn't updated its terms. Porn sites still use terms like "ebony" to refer to PoC I dont think I have to explain why *that's* bad either. Its fairly self explanatory.

TL:DR using intentionally dehumanizing porn specific terms to refer to large groups of people is demeaning at best and often times just using outright slurs.

And to the people who I know are gonna argue, once again, "its not a SLUR!1!!one!"

Noun, Definition 1: An insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation.
A word used to describe a class of individuals in a derogatory or demeaning way.

The words are slurs. Its not rocket science. Its basic linguistics.

Jeez, I didn't think I'd come back a couple days later and find an argument about the old tags. That's not really what this is about. This was about people hopefully seeing this and educating themselves on the current tags before using them, or getting help with "tagme". Cause honestly, I don't want a tag I didn't realize I wanted to block to pop up because something gets posted with a wrong tag. That happens enough with correct tagging. lol

Also...

furrin_gok said:
Report the individuals using the tag wrong.

I would, but I feel like an asshole when they're not really repeat offenders. There's multiple users doing it, so rather than report a bunch of random people for first-time offense, I had hoped this thread might help a little.

nightmare_zero said:
I would, but I feel like an asshole when they're not really repeat offenders. There's multiple users doing it, so rather than report a bunch of random people for first-time offense, I had hoped this thread might help a little.

A first-time offense is still an offense. People don't get banned immediately for first-time misstags. They only get banned when they've been given two or more previous warnings, and continue to tag posts inappropriately. And the quickest way to let them know what they're doing is incorrect, is to have the staff send them a warning. 'cause the number of people who use this site, and even edit tags, that actually look at the forums, is a surprisingly small number compared to the ones who never bother checking it out.

nightmare_zero said:
I would, but I feel like an asshole when they're not really repeat offenders. There's multiple users doing it, so rather than report a bunch of random people for first-time offense, I had hoped this thread might help a little.

Don't worry about it too much, I've reported a particular user twice for many instances of a mistagging they're still making and their account is still running fine. I don't think there's much penalty for mistagging unless it's intentionally malicious or involves an important common-blacklist tag.

nightmare_zero said:
Jeez, I didn't think I'd come back a couple days later and find an argument about the old tags. That's not really what this is about. This was about people hopefully seeing this and educating themselves on the current tags before using them, or getting help with "tagme". Cause honestly, I don't want a tag I didn't realize I wanted to block to pop up because something gets posted with a wrong tag. That happens enough with correct tagging. lol

Also...

I would, but I feel like an asshole when they're not really repeat offenders. There's multiple users doing it, so rather than report a bunch of random people for first-time offense, I had hoped this thread might help a little.

Best thing we can do to work together to make the site better is either let them know privately, or report when you feel that wont work; in addition to fixing tags when you see errors. You're not in the wrong here. Thats for sure.

We encourage people message people politely informing them about correct tag usage and using the wiki, if you see someone using the tag incorrectly then please let them know in a message. While some might think leaving a comment to be more convenience, remember that not everyone will check/read those and we don't need comments about mistags on every post.

You can see who added the tag by clicking on Tags/Desc under the History section of a post, it's currently the top option in the section.

This forum has run its course so I'll be locking it now.