The tag alias #50562 jean? -> ender_dragon has been rejected.

Reason: jean? doesn't really serve a purpose. The set of posts for jean? is basically the same as ender_dragon. The search jean? -ender_dragon is completely empty, and the search ender_dragon -jean? has only 2 posts that I can see (which may as well also be tagged jean?, unless that's considered an OC in which case we can just tag that OC's name).

I think we should use ender_dragon since:

1. It's a more common term for the Ender Dragon.

2. It's the name that shows up in Minecraft on the boss bar.

3. We also have steve_(minecraft) which isn't steve?.

4. jean? was created only about 3 months ago.

EDIT: The tag alias jean? -> ender_dragon (forum #302653) has been rejected by @Millcore.

This was suggested, and rejected, previously but I am still of the opinion this tag is utter nonsense.

There's no official recognition of "Jean?" being a character outside of one tweet that's probably a joke and a mention in the trivia section in the Minecraft wiki. There's also literally nothing that distinguishes "Jean?" from any other ender dragon outside of somebody claiming that it is Jean?

I disagree. Let's not alias character tags to species.
Instead, the jean? tag should be cleaned up, removing all instances except for those where the artist intended it to be the canonical Minecraft Ender Dragon, not an OC that happens to be of an ender dragon species.
That tag gets misused a lot.

bitwolfy said:
I disagree. Let's not alias character tags to species.
Instead, the jean? tag should be cleaned up, removing all instances except for those where the artist intended it to be the canonical Minecraft Ender Dragon, not an OC that happens to be of an ender dragon species.
That tag gets misused a lot.

What OC is it exactly?? What is the correct application for this tag?

Okay I'll admit I misread that - but this tag is still nonsense. "Jean?" is never used in-game or any official sources and the canonical appearance of the ender dragon in Minecraft isn't one character but a boss that has no name, and is infinitely spawnable, which puts it in line with being a species not a character.

I completely agree we shouldn't alias characters to species but it's not even a real character

I'm gonna have to disagree as well.

The only two sources naming the Ender Dragon "Jean?" is from both a name that Notch gave the Ender Dragon in a Reddit AMA similarly to the default skin being named "Steve" although people only really accept Ender Dragon as their name; The second source is a Tweet Dinnerbone made in 2015 making a joke about the name Notch gave the Ender Dragon.

Characters can be named off of lore, but most Ender Dragon images are specifically "The Ender Dragon," not "Notch's Ender Dragon." If you want to keep the character tag in place, almost, if not every image under the tag needs to have it removed.

The tag alias jean? -> ender_dragon (forum #302653) has been rejected by @Millcore.

I know this was rejected but, like faucet 2 years ago, I am still of the opinion that this tag is nonsense.

aaronfranke said:
I know this was rejected but, like faucet 2 years ago, I am still of the opinion that this tag is nonsense.

I'm assuming it is because Millcore would rather want o invalidate the tag. Jean? is so generic of a tag it could theoretically be given to other characters.

The bulk update request #4761 is active.

change category jean? (0) -> invalid

Reason: Kill it with fire.

I would have prefered ´alias jean? -> invalid_tag´, but this works too.

EDIT: The bulk update request #4761 (forum #364619) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The Jean tag is still being added to other named dragons. It's just a constant battle, I think this request can be revisited now.

the case for invalidation needs to be pretty strong, and honestly I do not see one here at all.
invalidation is for cases where the tag does not have any function because the tag is either: too ambiguous in it's meaning (i.e. name disambigs), imprecise as to what on the post it's referring to (i.e. unpointed color tags), or a tag that has no meaning under TWYS.

jean? is a specific enough tag to be considered valid, it refers to the ender dragon that is encountered in The End in Minecraft. there are other ender dragons that have been officially created by Microsoft, for example: the Ender Dragon Pet item is refered to as her brother, and ignoring that people create ender dragon OCs that users should be able to avoid if they just want the canon version.

the fact that a tag is often being misused is not a reason to invalidate it.

darryus said:
too ambiguous in it's meaning (i.e. name disambigs)

Correct, that is why this tag should be invalid

the fact that a tag is often being misused is not a reason to invalidate it.

You said it yourself, this tag is prone to being mistagfed. jean_(minecraft) is much better, but if somebody is lazy they will leave jean? behind and it will be autodirected to jean_(minecraft), so the problem's still there, it's diluted, but it's still there. This is for that reason why steve isn't aliased to steve_(minecraft).

wolfmanfur said:
Correct, that is why this tag should be invalid
You said it yourself, this tag is prone to being mistagfed. jean_(minecraft) is much better, but if somebody is lazy they will leave jean? behind and it will be autodirected to jean_(minecraft), so the problem's still there, it's diluted, but it's still there. This is for that reason why steve isn't aliased to steve_(minecraft).

looking through the tag history for when both versions of the tag have removed I can only find a single case of the tag being used on a character by mistake. all of the other cases of mistags are cases of mistaken identity, which would not be solved by tag invalidation.

there is very little evidence that the ambiguity of the tag name has caused any problems.

EDIT: I will also point out that the steve_(minecraft) tag also has quite a few mistags where it's applied to any male human Minecraft character, regardless of if they look a thing like Steve. _{so should we invalidate that tag as well?}

furrin_gok said:
The Jean tag is still being added to other named dragons. It's just a constant battle, I think this request can be revisited now.

wolfmanfur said:
Correct, that is why this tag should be invalid
You said it yourself, this tag is prone to being mistagfed. jean_(minecraft) is much better, but if somebody is lazy they will leave jean? behind and it will be autodirected to jean_(minecraft), so the problem's still there, it's diluted, but it's still there. This is for that reason why steve isn't aliased to steve_(minecraft).

Have you tried reporting the people who're doing this? The Jean (Minecraft) wiki's pretty clear about how to use it, and I certainly had success reporting people for it before I got promoted to janitor.

darryus said:
there is very little evidence that the ambiguity of the tag name has caused any problems.

So, what's even the point of making jean_(minecraft) if jean? isn't ambiguous, and why are folks saying otherwise here?

EDIT: I will also point out that the steve_(minecraft) tag also has quite a few mistags where it's applied to any male human Minecraft character, regardless of if they look a thing like Steve. _{so should we invalidate that tag as well?}

We can't fix stupid beyond making a tag clearer. I can see the use of the tag player_(minecraft) being helpful, but it might come off as superfuous since hese posts could also be under unnamed_character. However, to get back to the topic at hand, all names are aliased to a disambiguation tag or to invalid_tag because names can be applied to more than 1 character, suffixing them with a question mark does not change that fact, I reckon.

My opinion of this has not changed in 2 years

• It's effectively just a fan name, and standard practice is to nuke tags like this. We've been doing this for nonsense that comes out of other fandoms for over a decade now.
• While it did come from Notch, the developer at the time, it was just a Reddit comment^[1] - the name does not appear anywhere in any official media outside of that original comment and a tweet by Dinnerbone.^[2]
• It's not mentioned anywhere in the game - upon starting the initial battle the boss bar only says "Ender Dragon" and any subsequent re-summonings of the ender dragon are exactly the same.
• The Ender Dragon Pet item states "A cuter, friendly version of his bigger, less playful Minecraft sister."^[3] - even if this was deemed to be canonical it only confirms the ender dragon's gender and not the name Jean.
• The Minecraft Wiki doesn't have an article about Jean, and only makes mention of it in the Ender Dragon article's trivia section,^[4] which is typically a place where you put useless fancruft.
• The tag only applies to images where the artist has explicitly said it's Jean. This is a double-edged sword because there's plenty of images that are intended to be "Jean" but aren't tagged that way at the source, so it can't be tagged that way here either.
• It does have the benefit of being able to filter out ender dragon OCs - but this is something generally unsupported by e621 and we would have to add hundreds of other tags. How would you use a search to find a canon version of pikachu? How about the specific renamon that appears in the anime?
• It doesn't even have to line up with the canon appearance at all, as long as the artist states that it's Jean. Their rendition of the character could be exactly what people are trying to avoid by using this tag instead of ender_dragon.

Q: What's the difference between these two characters?
post #4006323 post #2590603

A: One is called "Jean" at the source.

Are they intended to be the same ender dragon? Probably.

---

I fully believe that aliasing jean_(minecraft) to ender_dragon will fully improve the searchability for everybody. The fact it's mistagged so often is clearly because people are expecting every image of an ender dragon to be in the results when searching.

Just looking at the changes on the random sample image I gave above - post changes #2590603 - you can see how many times Jean has been added and removed from that post alone. Actually, I just read the comments at the FA source and the artist says "I know about the name of this scalie lady (and she's obviously a lady because of an egg), but the most of people don't, so I don't try to call her like that because no one will get it anyway." in response to another comment saying her name is Jean - so should it be tagged that way after all?

faucet said:

• It does have the benefit of being able to filter out ender dragon OCs - but this is something generally unsupported by e621 and we would have to add hundreds of other tags. How would you use a search to find a canon version of pikachu? How about the specific renamon that appears in the anime?

E6 sort of supports this with fan_character. If it were tagged perfectly, you could find canon renamon (or at least, generic renamons) with renamon -fan_character

I think I'm in favor of scrapping jean_(minecraft) as well :P

The bulk update request #4761 (forum #364619) has been approved by @gattonero2001.