The bulk update request #675 has been rejected.

remove alias nonconsensual (0) -> forced (93083)
remove alias non-con (0) -> forced (93083)
remove alias non_consensual (0) -> forced (93083)
remove alias non-consensual (0) -> forced (93083)
remove alias noncon (0) -> forced (93083)
remove alias unconsensual (0) -> forced (93083)

Reason: Since present-day usage of the forced tag is only meant to imply a lack of control of the situation, not necessarily a lack of consent; and lack of consent is now tied exclusively to the rape tag; all these aliases seem to no longer be appropriate. I would like to request that they be aliased to rape, instead, but to do that, they need to be de-aliased from forced, first.

EDIT: The bulk update request #675 (forum #304674) has been rejected by @Millcore.

Not everything that's non-consensual is rape, though. One character forcing another to transform can be non-consensual, same with many of the other non-rape forced tags, like force_feeding.

Edit: The only way I'd probably support this is if people decided non-consensual should be its own tag, and implied it to forced (in which case, rape should probably imply non-consensual). But that's a huge "if" and I'm not even sure if that's worth doing.

vulkalu said:
Not everything that's nonconsensual is rape, though. One character forcing another to transform can be non-consensual, same with many of the other non-rape forced tags, like force_feeding.

And when have you, or anyone you know, ever used any of the terms I'm trying to re-alias, to mean force feeding or anything? I have literally never heard anyone use any of them to mean anything other than rape. Not when talking about artwork, at any rate.

jacob said:
And when have you, or anyone you know, ever used any of the terms I'm trying to re-alias, to mean force feeding or anything? I have literally never heard anyone use any of them to mean anything other than rape. Not when talking about artwork, at any rate.

I actually have, it's sometimes used in regards to transformation, though not nearly as often as rape, obviously. But I was meaning more in terms of the actual word. Maybe I'm wrong about this vote, but for now I'm not changing it.

jacob said:
Since present-day usage of the forced tag is only meant to imply a lack of control of the situation, not necessarily a lack of consent; and lack of consent is now tied exclusively to the rape tag

Seems that was changed just last November. Up until then, it did mean a non-consensual action (sexual or non-sexual, e.g. a forced transformation). I actually remember asking if there was a tag about just that thing, a forced act that may be consensual but unpreventable, since forced meant non-consensual. I don't remember seeing any discussion about that wiki change, and since it caused some aliases to become invalid, it should probably be reverted until there is a discussion/agreement to change it.

watsit said:
Seems that was changed by Jacob just last November. Up until then, it did mean a non-consensual action (sexual or non-sexual, e.g. a forced transformation). I actually remember asking if there was a tag about just that thing, a forced act that may be consensual but unpreventable, since forced meant non-consensual. I don't remember seeing any discussion about that wiki change, and since it caused some aliases to become invalid, it should probably be reverted until there is a discussion/agreement to change it.

I changed it because I had applied the rape tag to some "forced_[thing]" images under the same logic of "forced means rape," and an admin explicitly told me that's not how it works around here, nowadays. That forced merely means one character does not have control of how they're being penetrated, not automatically that they're not consenting.

jacob said:
I changed it because I had applied the rape tag to some "forced_[thing]" images under the same logic of "forced means rape," and an admin explicitly told me that's not how it works around here, nowadays. That forced merely means one character does not have control of how they're being penetrated, not automatically that they're not consenting.

Before changing the wiki definition of a common and established tag, you should obtain approval from the community. If a considerable amount of users have objections, it should remain as it was before.

jacob said:
I changed it because I had applied the rape tag to some "forced_[thing]" images under the same logic of "forced means rape," and an admin explicitly told me that's not how it works around here, nowadays. That forced merely means one character does not have control of how they're being penetrated, not automatically that they're not consenting.

Since the original description 8 years ago, forced has always meant non-consenting, and does not imply anything sexual. For example, forced_transformation isn't sex, thus not rape, but is still a forced/non-consensual action.

watsit said:
Since the original description 8 years ago, forced has always meant non-consenting, and does not imply anything sexual. For example, forced_transformation isn't sex, thus not rape, but is still a forced/non-consensual action.

On the other hand, forced_oral means that one character is stuffing their cock in (or rubbing their pussy against) another character's mouth, with the latter character having no control over speed or strength of penetration...but if they have a smile on their face, or other indications they're enjoying this treatment, it still gets tagged forced_oral, because lack of control. Same for any other sexual forced_[insert thing] tag.

Plus, if a wizard came along and cast a spell on somebody that forcefully transformed them from one species to another, but the transformed character shows a reaction of delight, that's still forced_transformation, because the transformed character was not the one to initiate the change, but it's (arguably) consensual.

jacob said:
Plus, if a wizard came along and cast a spell on somebody that forcefully transformed them from one species to another, but the transformed character shows a reaction of delight, that's still forced_transformation, because the transformed character was not the one to initiate the change, but it's (arguably) consensual.

That's the kind of thing I once asked about, but never got an answer. Since forced depended on a character doing something to another character without consent, how would you tag a transformation that wasn't unwanted but couldn't be stopped once started (the example I used ). I also mentioned there was a problem with forced_transformation implying forced, since a forced transformation could be induced by something like the moon or a cursed object, rather than another character as forced requires.

I never really got an answer to those as far as I know, but just because I didn't doesn't mean it's appropriate to just change a long-standing tag like forced. Not without a discussion and consensus, at least.

The bulk update request #675 (forum #304674) has been rejected by @Millcore.