Hello everyone!

Over the next week or so, we will be unveiling another part of the changes we are rolling out for e621. These changes are a set of rules that are aimed at making the forums and website enjoyable for everyone.

Why are new rules needed? Isn't everything going perfectly?

Well, yes, they are. However, since e621 has been acquired by Bad Dragon Enterprises, there are a number of things that have to be optimized to not only protect Bad Dragon, but to protect e621 as well. Since Bad Dragon is an international company, we attract people from all over with different backgrounds, beliefs, and opinions. We have to make sure that we are as accommodating as possible to as many people as possible. We also need to make sure that we weed out the spammers and trolls, because no one likes people who are constantly down on everyone around them!

What kind of changes can we expect?

We are going to be cutting down on irrelevant forum topics, such as politics, to focus the website more towards the art and the artist. Also working to make administrative actions more consistent and clear. Many of the changes are fairly common sense, but will be clearly stated so there is no confusion about what is or is not okay.

When will I be able to see the proposed new rules?
The new changes will be posted on Monday 30th September, and will be published for a week before they go into effect. There'll be a forum thread for active discussion of the proposed new rules, which will be used to refine them before they go into effect.

When will these new changes go into effect?
The finalized rules should into effect on Monday 7th October.

Who can I contact if I have any questions?
You can email me at [email protected], send me a PM here on e621, or reply to this topic. I'll be making myself available to reply to inquiries as they come in :)

Constructive feedback is always appreciated!

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
What kind of changes can we expect?

We are going to be cutting down on irrelevant forum topics, such as politics, to focus the website more towards the art and the artist.

Is there really that much to cut? Most of topics are already either about art, or about the site in general. And is almost no politics on forums. Most topics that are under offtopic category (and there very few of them) are either few old forum games (and attempts on making new one are discouraged), or something that could as well have one of other categories, or are locked even under current rules.
I hope that this cutting don't mean that any offtopic is going to be forbidden, because IMO forum is already very focused toward art, artists, and the site itself.

Sounds cool.

One point that could be confusing is what you mean by "senior management group". Maybe it would help if you listed/linked to a list of who is in the "senior management group" or where you'd find that email info if someone needed it. I can't be the only one who doesn't know that info automatically. Is it just messaging anyone with "admin" under their name, or did you mean something more specific than that?

Other than that, it sounds interesting and possibly great. I'm looking forward to see what's been cooking, and will reserve judgement or feedback until things can be seen and tried out.

Gilda: Nope, OT stays OT. It'll be more clear on Monday, but the forum games stay.

furrypickle: Yeah, my bad. I'll post the senior management group here.

Dave Reynolds (Lead Admin) – [email protected]
Aaron Urbina (Admin) – [email protected]
Tsukaza (Admin/Takedowns) – [email protected]
Varka (Owner) – [email protected]

Don't forget to update https://e621.net/static/contact

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
The forum games stay.

Thank you...

So, basically these changes will be "no politics but arts and artists"? That's what we've been doing, besides random (sometimes read "recently" TMI), suggesting tag aliases/implications, extensibility to the site (using API) with user made scripts, CSS styles and windows/android applications.

And as you said

Many of the changes are fairly common sense, but will be clearly stated so there is no confusion about what is or is not okay.

There will be more transparency at the Mod Actions ?

Oh boy, I'm gonna need popcorn for this.

I like the part about consistency. Most particularly after every call for consistency by users has been met with everything from "we're consistent enough" to "consistency is hard".

Foobaria said:
I like the part about consistency. Most particularly after every call for consistency by users has been met with everything from "we're consistent enough" to "consistency is hard".

It very highly depends on what areas you're saying need more consistency.

For instance, user records? Absolutely, I think making user records more consistent is completely achievable and necessary.

Consistency in determining which irrelevant posts e621's admins decide to keep and which ones they decide to delete? That's something that IS significantly harder while still allowing irrelevant posts at all. The only way I'd see this being possible is if admins like, voted on whether or not to keep an irrelevant post, and even that would lead to inconsistencies as the site grows and staff changes.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Why are new rules needed? Isn't everything going perfectly?

Well, yes, they are. However, since e621 has been acquired by Bad Dragon Enterprises, there are a number of things that have to be optimized to not only protect Bad Dragon, but to protect e621 as well. Since Bad Dragon is an international company, we attract people from all over with different backgrounds, beliefs, and opinions. We have to make sure that we are as accommodating as possible to as many people as possible. We also need to make sure that we weed out the spammers and trolls, because no one likes people who are constantly down on everyone around them!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've inferred that it is essentially a move not meant to have any noticeable effect on the day-to-day operation of the site, but is instead a move to protect Bad Dragons PR image in cases where the admin team is in a dispute with users/artists etc.

Wolframite said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've inferred that it is essentially a move not meant to have any noticeable effect on the day-to-day operation of the site, but is instead a move to protect Bad Dragons PR image in cases where the admin team is in a dispute with users/artists etc.

That is the undressed up version of the first part, yes.

I am pro the consistency part, but would be hard to have a real opinion until what that actually means comes to bear

As long as TWYS isn't getting messed with more, I'm ok with most things, certainly the general info posted.

Awesome, our lead admin name is Dave. I don't know why, but I like that name. It sounds professional to me

TheHuskyK9 said:
Awesome, our lead admin name is Dave. I don't know why, but I like that name. It sounds professional to me

No matter where you go to, there will always be at least one Dave working there.

NotMeNotYou said:
No matter where you go to, there will always be at least one Dave working there.

No Bob though.

NotMeNotYou said:
No matter where you go to, there will always be at least one Dave working there.

Well whats the employer going to do?
Be like "I know you've been looking forward to working here, but...
I'm afraid I can't let you do that dave..."

Moon_Moon said:
Well whats the employer going to do?
Be like "I know you've been looking forward to working here, but...
I'm afraid I can't let you do that dave..."

Only if your boss is HAL. :3

I got nothing to say really till I actual see these new rules/changes. It's like being told a new game is coming out with all these new features. Which makes you unsure weather to get excited or disappointed tell you get your hands on it.

Dave is the name of my real life brother.

I'm frightened that any person called Dave is my brother.

On topic.. I have a few questions but I seriously cannot think of them....

TheHuskyK9 said:
Awesome, our lead admin name is Dave. I don't know why, but I like that name. It sounds professional to me

"I'm afraid I can't do that Dave"

Now we just need a Hal

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
The administrators are already aware of the new changes, but have been asked not to discuss it in detail until launch. Reason for that is the information may change between now and then.
[...]

Constructive feedback is always appreciated!

How are we supposed to provide constructive feedback without knowing the details?

Snowy said:
How are we supposed to provide constructive feedback without knowing the details?

The details will be announced on the 30th. This is like an announcement announcement.

Since Bad Dragon is an international company, we attract people from all over with different backgrounds, beliefs, and opinions. We have to make sure that we are as accommodating as possible to as many people as possible.

inb4 mass purge of certain categories of art.
Muhammad
cub
etc

Azazial said:
inb4 mass purge of certain categories of art.
Muhammad
cub
etc

No no, we're keeping the art. You just cant like, discuss it I think.

ippiki_ookami said:
No no, we're keeping the art. You just cant like, discuss it I think.

I believe the art itself may be talked about, just that the random "Obama plans to outlaw Furries" is not allowed anymore.

ippiki_ookami said:
No no, we're keeping the art. You just cant like, discuss it I think.

.... Are you serious?

ippiki_ookami said:
No no, we're keeping the art. You just cant like, discuss it I think.

This reminds me of how one of my posts were deleted "for the sake of national security"

NotMeNotYou said:
I believe the art itself may be talked about, just that the random "Obama plans to outlaw Furries" is not allowed anymore.

Because we do that so much now as it is. You know, what with our daily religipolitical discussions here on the forum.

NotMeNotYou said:
I believe the art itself may be talked about, just that the random "Obama plans to outlaw Furries" is not allowed anymore.

corgi_bread said:
Because we do that so much now as it is. You know, what with our daily religipolitical discussions here on the forum.

And you think anyone here would really want to talk about political affiliation when we make forum like forum #45950. And if these changes flood over to people commenting on post like post #378180. Then what's the point commenting at all.

Times changing... Well, not bad at all...

Falord said:
And you think anyone here would really want to talk about political affiliation when we make forum like forum #45950. And if these changes flood over to people commenting on post like post #378180. Then what's the point commenting at all.

I'm hoping this doesn't spill into comments as well, because that's just retarded.

Loc0 said:
Times changing... Well, not bad at all...

You don't even know any details about what's changing. I'm withholding my judgement until they actually give us some details, because you can't really discuss something if you're not told anything about it.

corgi_bread said:
I'm withholding my judgement until they actually give us some details, because you can't really discuss something if you're not told anything about it.

This. One the one hand be small changes that would be more or less writing down and consolidating some unwritten rules that are already in use. On the other hand I'm a little afraid what is the meaning of cutting down irrelevant topics on forum where irrelevant topics are already very cut down.

100 bucks on no cub
50 bucks on no pony
10 bucks on this post getting deleted (Dave are you actively trying to hide I exist?)

Aurali said:
100 bucks on no cub
50 bucks on no pony

I'd welcome both. The pony ban even more than the cub ban :-/

But: while pony lovers will have a place to go if ponies are banned, the cub lovers will not. Unless a brave cub lover wants to set up & finance an e621 clone for cub stuff (c621?).

It's all about reputation of the site. Whether it's managed by bad dragon or by dragonfruit the association is still there.

E621 needs to have a very positive image, especially in the eyes of artists. This is important both to maintain advertising revenues, and to protect BDs reputation in case any artists get disgruntled about copyright issues.

It's very well managed already, but the last thing bad dragon needs is one of the big artists telling tens of thousands of watchers to boycott BD because they've decided they're sponsoring art theft.

I'm pretty much certain we're not getting rid of cub or pones.

So many comments! Let me try and answer a few of them:

Wolframite said:
It's all about reputation of the site. Whether it's managed by bad dragon or by dragonfruit the association is still there.

We would certainly like to fix the damage done by those whom I shall not name, but you are correct in that we want e621 to have a positive image, as someone the artist trusts and respects.

Falord said:
And you think anyone here would really want to talk about political affiliation when we make forum like forum #45950. And if these changes flood over to people commenting on post like post #378180. Then what's the point commenting at all.

The admins have been given a similar list with something like the "spirit of the law". It's a general description on why the rule is there, so that just because someone says that they love McCain (or whatever) doesn't necessarily mean there needs to be action taken against them.

corgi_bread said:
Because we do that so much now as it is. You know, what with our daily religipolitical discussions here on the forum.

Yes, rampant use of that. It's everywhere. But no, seriously, like I said, most of this is just common sense. Having it said in an official capacity is better for the site than not having it.

On that note, I will be getting together with some of the non-admins and going over these changes with them, so at least they have some information to go with.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
On that note, I will be getting together with some of the non-admins and going over these changes with them, so at least they have some information to go with.

Define 'non-admin'.

corgi_bread said:
Define 'non-admin'.

Certain people who are not administrators. They will know by the end of today.

Why don't you just show everyone the proposed changes and have us all discuss it? You know, like you've said in your news post at the top of the pages.

New rules beta testing?
Before release to the general public?

Wasn't my news post :) Not sure why it was phrased that way.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Wasn't my news post :) Not sure why it was phrased that way.

Doesn't change the fact that the userbase is going to be who is most affected by your changes. Would only be prudent to allow us to give you feedback on them before they go into effect.

corgi_bread said:
Doesn't change the fact that the userbase is going to be who is most affected by your changes. Would only be prudent to allow us to give you feedback on them before they go into effect.

I never said that wouldn't happen.

corgi_bread said:
Doesn't change the fact that the userbase is going to be who is most affected by your changes. Would only be prudent to allow us to give you feedback on them before they go into effect.

It still looks to me like there will be tons of time for all that. It does make sense to discuss it with admin etc. before anything else.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
I never said that wouldn't happen.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
When will these new changes go into effect?

The new changes will be posted early next week. The administrators are already aware of the new changes, but have been asked not to discuss it in detail until launch. Reason for that is the information may change between now and then.

That makes it pretty clear that we're not going to see these changes before they go into effect. You also asked us to give you feedback on it, even though you never gave us any details beyond 'we're going to do some stuff and then some things and then we'll be doing some general other things that pertain to various stuff'.

Why not just give us the rundown now, instead of waiting for it to go into effect? Just looks awfully suspicious, in my opinion.

I don't really like where this sounds like it's going. If e621 is going to be changed and censored just so it doesn't bring any reputation to Bad Dragon there's going to need to be a whole lot of change, and it just won't be e621 any more.

corgi_bread said:
That makes it pretty clear that we're not going to see these changes before they go into effect. You also asked us to give you feedback on it, even though you never gave us any details beyond 'we're going to do some stuff and then some things and then we'll be doing some general other things that pertain to various stuff'.

Why not just give us the rundown now, instead of waiting for it to go into effect? Just looks awfully suspicious, in my opinion.

I hear and respect your opinion on this. The short and sweet is, I am only one person and this is not something I want to miscommunicate in delivering (re: ippiki). I am trying to fix a dozen things every day, while trying to make sure that both your opinions, and the opinions of the admins, are heard by Bad Dragon while ensuring that these changes are accomplishing the mission we've set out to do.

I hear you: you want the information now. The information, as I stated, is not quite ready yet. It's pretty much there, but I don't want to give you guys something incomplete because I didn't wait a few extra days to do a final check. I apologize about the grief it's causing, and I will still answer questions as often as I can.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
I hear and respect your opinion on this.

Every time I hear someone say something like this, the only thing I'm reading in it is 'but I don't care'.

The short and sweet is, I am only one person and this is not something I want to miscommunicate in delivering (re: ippiki). I am trying to fix a dozen things every day, while trying to make sure that both your opinions, and the opinions of the admins, are heard by Bad Dragon while ensuring that these changes are accomplishing the mission we've set out to do.

Welcome to being the lead admin of E621. You didn't think this was going to be an easy job, did you?

I hear you: you want the information now. The information, as I stated, is not quite ready yet. It's pretty much there, but I don't want to give you guys something incomplete because I didn't wait a few extra days to do a final check. I apologize about the grief it's causing, and I will still answer questions as often as I can.

Then you should have waited on revealing there were changes on the horizon until you had everything ready to show us. Unless of course what we think doesn't matter in the long run, and these changes are going to happen whether we want them to or not, because Bad Dragon decrees it. If that's the case, just get it out in the open now.

corgi_bread said:
Every time I hear someone say something like this, the only thing I'm reading in it is 'but I don't care'.

Welcome to being the lead admin of E621. You didn't think this was going to be an easy job, did you?

Then you should have waited on revealing there were changes on the horizon until you had everything ready to show us. Unless of course what we think doesn't matter in the long run, and these changes are going to happen whether we want them to or not, because Bad Dragon decrees it. If that's the case, just get it out in the open now.

I'm sorry if you read that I don't care. I assure you that I would not be responding to you if I didn't care.

No, I didn't expect it to be an easy job, but you wanted an explanation and I provided it.

If I waited until everything was ready to reveal, then dropped the changes all at once, all the posts would be about how no one had any idea something like this was going to happen. At least, this way, you do know that there are changes happening and I am actively working on doing what I can to get them ready.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
If I waited until everything was ready to reveal, then dropped the changes all at once, all the posts would be about how no one had any idea something like this was going to happen. At least, this way, you do know that there are changes happening and I am actively working on doing what I can to get them ready.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying to you. If you give us a rundown of things now, before they take effect, they can be discussed by the users as a whole and relevant changes can be made before it becomes gospel. I'm not saying don't tell us anything and then all of a sudden change things, I'm saying tell us about it beforehand, but actually give us information. And if you don't have information then sonny jim, get it in order and then tell us.

Don't keep us in the dark about site changes like this, the userbase is what makes your website what it is, and we deserve to have a say in the direction this site is being taken.

corgi_bread said:
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying to you. If you give us a rundown of things now, before they take effect, they can be discussed by the users as a whole and relevant changes can be made before it becomes gospel. I'm not saying don't tell us anything and then all of a sudden change things, I'm saying tell us about it beforehand, but actually give us information. And if you don't have information then sonny jim, get it in order and then tell us.

Don't keep us in the dark about site changes like this, the userbase is what makes your website what it is, and we deserve to have a say in the direction this site is being taken.

Corgi, if you had given me some time today instead of trying to bring up points that have been brought up (and discussed already, much of it in this forum), you would have had your answers a while ago. As it is, I'm trying to get things together for you and everyone. I'm sorry if you prefer it being done another way, but I assure you, everything that you've asked for was going to happen already.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Corgi, if you had given me some time today instead of trying to bring up points that have been brought up (and discussed already, much of it in this forum), you would have had your answers a while ago. As it is, I'm trying to get things together for you and everyone. I'm sorry if you prefer it being done another way, but I assure you, everything that you've asked for was going to happen already.

I see, so now you're going toss blame off onto me for why we haven't been given any information. If fiesty little corgi_bread had kept his mouth shut, why, we would have all been given gold chalices filled with foxes.

Never mind the fact that you had ample time before making this thread to get your ducks in a row, and still didn't do it.

The way I read it is this:

this is just a heads up; details are pending. Changes will be rolled out after details are revealed. Requests for feedback were in preparation for the actual announcement, but maybe getting ahead of the whole thing. And esp the news banner inviting people to discuss the not-yet-revealed changes were a probably a bit premature until there actually were changes to discuss.

The lack of information is putting people on edge. But in the end, there really is nothing to discuss yet. Nothing's been announced yet. This is just a heads-up that a detailed announcement is coming later. Sure, it wasn't perfect (rarely things are) but it is still nice to be given a heads up.

And, whether it's PR or not, it sounds like most of the changes are meant to be officialising some of the things which we've already been doing, standardising a few things, minor stuff that ties up loose ends without really upending anything. And if that's the case, then some of this speculation is a bit like driving off a cliff because there might be an apocalypse coming. It just doesn't seem warranted yet. Just my two cents.

Apologies everyone, you're right - it's difficult to discuss proposed new rules if they're not available for viewing, and I think my initial post didn't really make the timeline clear at all. I've updated it to reflect when the rules will be published, and what'll be happening in terms of giving feedback on it.

The intention is to publish the rules on Monday 30th September, and have a week's worth of feedback and active discussion on them to determine any improvements that could be made and so on. Once everyone's had a chance to give some feedback, the new rules will hopefully go into effect on the 7th of October.

I agree that this announcement 'jumped the gun' a bit - but my original intention was simply to let people know that changes are coming, and that they'd recieve further information (and get a chance to give their feedback) in the coming days. Upon re-reading my original post, it's really not very clear, so that's my bad. That, combined with the misleading news post (which has now been corrected) was what I feel led to the most confusion.

Come back on Monday when we'll have the rules published and ready for review!

furrypickle said:
The way I read it is this:

this is just a heads up; details are pending. Changes will be rolled out after details are revealed. Requests for feedback were in preparation for the actual announcement, but maybe getting ahead of the whole thing. And esp the news banner inviting people to discuss the not-yet-revealed changes were a probably a bit premature until there actually were changes to discuss.

The lack of information is putting people on edge. But in the end, there really is nothing to discuss yet. Nothing's been announced yet. This is just a heads-up that a detailed announcement is coming later. Sure, it wasn't perfect (rarely things are) but it is still nice to be given a heads up.

And, whether it's PR or not, it sounds like most of the changes are meant to be officialising some of the things which we've already been doing, standardising a few things, minor stuff that ties up loose ends without really upending anything. And if that's the case, then some of this speculation is a bit like driving off a cliff because there might be an apocalypse coming. It just doesn't seem warranted yet. Just my two cents.

Sticky that post so this thread stops being so nit picky lol. :P

There really is no info, so wait until later. My only 2 cents is if this starts being a puppet site or something, then I go :P

After skimming a bit,

Seven_Twenty said:
I don't really like where this sounds like it's going.

Lots of animosity about.
I hope the changes don't involve anything stupid.

CamKitty said:
My only 2 cents is if this starts being a puppet site or something, then I go :P

Edit: And I'm sure part of the reason for all the animosity is because of the lack of information. It's like telling someone with a blindfold on that the next step they take could either be on a pillow of soft fluffiness or a pool of molten lava doom. Honestly, no announcements at all should have been made until the rules were completely ready for review by the community. All of this could have been avoided.

Aurali said:
100 bucks on no cub
50 bucks on no pony
10 bucks on this post getting deleted (Dave are you actively trying to hide I exist?)

(Gasp!) She's back \( ^.^)/

TheHuskyK9 said:
(Gasp!) She's back \( ^.^)/

:3

TheHuskyK9 said:
(Gasp!) She's back \( ^.^)/

Has something happened...?
Sorry, I don't keep up on public events.
Still, though.

DarkShadow6 said:
Has something happened...?
Sorry, I don't keep up on public events.
Still, though.

She used to be site coder/admin. Then, change.

100 bucks on no cub

Sucker's bet: I give it half a year before the cub starts to disappear.

50 bucks on no pony

Not a chance: Pony brings a fuckton of views to the site. It's like fresh furry meat, ready to be sold a bunch of dildoes.

I wonder if these new rules well be like the Xbox One first reveling. Nice at the beginning, then falls of a cliff at the end.

Falord said:
I wonder if these new rules well be like the Xbox One first reveling. Nice at the beginning, then falls of a cliff at the end.

God, I hope not.

Foobaria said:
Sucker's bet: I give it half a year before the cub starts to disappear.

God, I hope not.

DarkShadow6 said:
God, I hope not.

Just sayin': It's time to start saving shit to your disk if you haven't already been.

Foobaria said:
Just sayin': It's time to start saving shit to your disk if you haven't already been.

Nah, I don't save anymore.
e621 may be a resource, but it isn't the only one (I feel sad saying this but w/e).
Don't prepare for the end-times just yet, we have yet to see what is in store for ol' blue.

.... I like this place as the way it is....

tfkcex said:
.... I like this place as the way it is....

I'm sure a lot of people do, but unifying and un-loopholing rules (apparently) seems like a nice deed.

Again guys, we can get bad feelings all day. We won't know jack shit until more is announced :P