Hi so... I'm a little confused, why there are a change of tabs for example

Genderswap and crossgender, these two mean two completely different things

Genderswap is when a character, for example: Carmelita fox. Is turned into a guy when she was originally a woman

Cross gender is when you are born a man, look like a man, but act like a girl and in vice versa with women, in technical terms this is a tomboy and femboy mentality

So I don't understand why the change of a tag the two terms are completely different, why not just add new tags and keep the old ones, I mean I have a tough time trying to find cuntboys and shemales as it is when the new tag is androgynous male and androgynous female, like that's not what I'm looking for.

publicenemy1 said:
Cross gender is when you are born a man, look like a man, but act like a girl and in vice versa with women, in technical terms this is a tomboy and femboy mentality

you mean crossdressing? because I've never heard "crossgender" used like that. I've pretty much only heard it used in the context of a character being depicted as an off-canon gender, which is how we use it.

publicenemy1 said:
So I don't understand why the change of a tag the two terms are completely different, why not just add new tags and keep the old ones, I mean I have a tough time trying to find cuntboys and shemales as it is when the new tag is androgynous male and androgynous female, like that's not what I'm looking for.

andromorph and gynomorph? mti_crossgender and fti_crossgender?

Well if you put down genderswap within the search it would do

Genderswap ----> crossgender

As a "is this what you mean"

publicenemy1 said:
Well if you put down genderswap within the search it would do

Genderswap ----> crossgender

As a "is this what you mean"

yes, same with rule_63, gender_bender, and alternate_gender.

the words are synonyms, they're aliased together. that way we don't have 30 dozen tags that mean the same thing like most other art sites and boorus do.

publicenemy1 said:
Genderswap and crossgender, these two mean two completely different things

Genderswap is when a character, for example: Carmelita fox. Is turned into a guy when she was originally a woman

Cross gender is when you are born a man, look like a man, but act like a girl and in vice versa with women, in technical terms this is a tomboy and femboy mentality

Genderswap and crossgender mean the same thing, in which a character is depicted as the opposite/different sex than their canon depictione. The former is aliased to the latter so that, if you search for genderswap or crossgender, you get the same results.

So I don't understand why the change of a tag the two terms are completely different, why not just add new tags and keep the old ones,

Technically, we do. An alias allows you to still use the old term and, in the cases of your examples, get the relevant results even though they're under a synonymous or, in some cases, a "close enough" tag.

I mean I have a tough time trying to find cuntboys and shemales as it is when the new tag is androgynous male and androgynous female, like that's not what I'm looking for.

Those two were aliased away because they were a big problem for years. Artists even went DNP. Why? Because they contained slurs, and that's something the site's trying to get away from. However, we didn't have any good replacements for them until andromorph and gynomorph (not androgynous_male nor androgynous_female) were introduced. The tags describe the appearance of the overall body ("male body" and "female body" respectively) and not their genitals, without using any slurs. As a result, some artists did indeed take themselves off the DNP list, and Users have been generally okay with it.

However, you can still search for the old terms and get the results you're looking for even though the proper, official tags are andromorph and gynomorph.

clawstripe said:
Genderswap and crossgender mean the same thing, in which a character is depicted as the opposite/different sex than their canon depictione. The former is aliased to the latter so that, if you search for genderswap or crossgender, you get the same results.

Technically, we do. An alias allows you to still use the old term and, in the cases of your examples, get the relevant results even though they're under a synonymous or, in some cases, a "close enough" tag.

Those two were aliased away because they were a big problem for years. Artists even went DNP. Why? Because they contained slurs, and that's something the site's trying to get away from. However, we didn't have any good replacements for them until andromorph and gynomorph (not androgynous_male nor androgynous_female) were introduced. The tags describe the appearance of the overall body ("male body" and "female body" respectively) and not their genitals, without using any slurs. As a result, some artists did indeed take themselves off the DNP list, and Users have been generally okay with it.

However, you can still search for the old terms and get the results you're looking for even though the proper, official tags are andromorph and gynomorph.

Genderswap: The act of changing a fictional character's biological sex and/or gender identity from the canonical norm.

Crossgender: Across multiple genders; taking, or pertaining to, the traditional role of the opposite gender.

These are completely different definitions. You saying they're the same thing is like saying a lemon is an orange and will taste like an orange if you dyed the outer time in orange food coloring that's cross gender, now if you genetically alter a lemons genetic makeup and turn it into an orange, then that's genderswap. Just because it has gender in the name doesn't mean it's automatically the same definition

dba_afish said:
yes, same with rule_63, gender_bender, and alternate_gender.

the words are synonyms, they're aliased together. that way we don't have 30 dozen tags that mean the same thing like most other art sites and boorus do.

Well that's dumb why not keep rule 63? That is like changing the name rule 34 to "porn" like the rule was there for a reason lol

clawstripe said:
Genderswap and crossgender mean the same thing, in which a character is depicted as the opposite/different sex than their canon depictione. The former is aliased to the latter so that, if you search for genderswap or crossgender, you get the same results.

Technically, we do. An alias allows you to still use the old term and, in the cases of your examples, get the relevant results even though they're under a synonymous or, in some cases, a "close enough" tag.

Those two were aliased away because they were a big problem for years. Artists even went DNP. Why? Because they contained slurs, and that's something the site's trying to get away from. However, we didn't have any good replacements for them until andromorph and gynomorph (not androgynous_male nor androgynous_female) were introduced. The tags describe the appearance of the overall body ("male body" and "female body" respectively) and not their genitals, without using any slurs. As a result, some artists did indeed take themselves off the DNP list, and Users have been generally okay with it.

However, you can still search for the old terms and get the results you're looking for even though the proper, official tags are andromorph and gynomorph.

Also androgynous means partly male and partly female in appearance; of indeterminate sex

But genderswap isn't being indeterminate it's a change of the character's canonical sex if it was androgynous, then you get tomboy or femboy... I think? I could be wrong on that one, but my point at least from how I'm interpreting the word, androgynous means you're uncertain if the person is either male or female which then boils down to if you say androgynous male, you have a clear definition which defeats the point of having androgynous in the first place, at least in my opinion

publicenemy1 said:
Also androgynous means partly male and partly female in appearance; of indeterminate sex

But genderswap isn't being indeterminate it's a change of the character's canonical sex if it was androgynous, then you get tomboy or femboy... I think? I could be wrong on that one, but my point at least from how I'm interpreting the word, androgynous means you're uncertain if the person is either male or female which then boils down to if you say androgynous male, you have a clear definition which defeats the point of having androgynous in the first place, at least in my opinion

ambiguous_gender is androgynous.
andromorph and gynomorph are not androgynous. they're just about as far as you can get, honestly.

just-- just read the tag wikis. I linked them in earlier messages, but here's the one for crossgender again they explain the tags' usage and function and they also link to sub-tags that you might find more useful. also, maybe read this if you want a full explanation of the main gender tags.

publicenemy1 said:

Crossgender: Across multiple genders; taking, or pertaining to, the traditional role of the opposite gender.

Where'd you get that definition

snpthecat said:
Where'd you get that definition

https://www.wordsense.eu/crossgender/

dba_afish said:
ambiguous_gender is androgynous.
andromorph and gynomorph are not androgynous. they're just about as far as you can get, honestly.

just-- just read the tag wikis. I linked them in earlier messages, but here's the one for crossgender again they explain the tags' usage and function and they also link to sub-tags that you might find more useful. also, maybe read this if you want a full explanation of the main gender tags.

I'm not talking about andromorph or gyromorph we were talking about rule 63, why are you talking about gyromorph and andromorph? And I'm not looking for trans characters I'm looking for where the characters is changed from male to female or from female to male,

Gynomorph is a word used to describe an organism with female physical characteristics.

And andromorph is gynomorph I looked up gyromorph which turned to gynomorph, and when looking up andromorph I got the same gynomorph

publicenemy1 said:
https://www.wordsense.eu/crossgender/

I would've believed you'd taken from wiktionary
Not sure how'd you'd extrapolated it to mean acts like the opposite gender but looks like the same gender. Isn't it a synonym for transgender

wait a sec...

dude, you've been here since 2018. crossgender has been the tagname for this concept since forever, and we've been using the current tagnames for the intersex genders since 2019. why are you just questioning this now?

publicenemy1 said:
I'm not talking about andromorph or gyromorph we were talking about rule 63, why are you talking about gyromorph and andromorph? And I'm not looking for trans characters I'm looking for where the characters is changed from male to female or from female to male,

because you keep saying androgynous for some reason which is completely unrelated to anything and the only thing I could logic out was that you got the terms mixed up. you're just rambling without explaining what you're actually trying to search for.

_{also, technically, rule63 is specifically mtf_crossgender. but everyone forgets that.}

publicenemy1 said:
I'm not talking about andromorph or gyromorph we were talking about rule 63, why are you talking about gyromorph and andromorph? And
And andromorph is gynomorph I looked up gyromorph which turned to gynomorph, and when looking up andromorph I got the same gynomorph

???
this paragraph is entirely unparsable.



anyway, whatever. the tags you want are mtf_crossgender and/or ftm_crossgender. (I think)

@publicenemy1, I think your biggest problem is that you can't understand that words can have different meanings in different contexts, and this problem is exacerbated by quoting things you can't comprehend.

We use crossgender because it's a somewhat inoffensive term, the tag name evokes the meaning that the gender is different, and it's understandable at a glance. rule 63 doesn't mean anything for viewers encountering it for the first time. What is rule 38? are you able to answer that without searching it up?

So yes, what you mean by gender swap is currently crossgender (and you can search for mtf crossgender or ftm crossgender), and what you want for crossgender is ~femboy ~tomboy

dba_afish said:
wait a sec...

dude, you've been here since 2018. crossgender has been the tagname for this concept since forever, and we've been using the current tagnames for the intersex genders since 2019. why are you just questioning this now?

I have a suspicion that all the people complaining now is because the saved searches failed and they learn about aliases for the first time

snpthecat said:
I have a suspicion that all the people complaining now is because the saved searches failed and they learn about aliases for the first time

I guess that'd be possible, yeah. I mean, if they were around pre-ng they might've toggled the auto complete menu off the instant the update came out. without that they might never be introduced to the alias system, because they've literally never added a tag to a post, and... I guess, just never read tag definitions or even glanced at the tag list... somehow?

publicenemy1 said:
Genderswap: The act of changing a fictional character's biological sex and/or gender identity from the canonical norm.

Crossgender: Across multiple genders; taking, or pertaining to, the traditional role of the opposite gender.

These are completely different definitions. ... Just because it has gender in the name doesn't mean it's automatically the same definition

Not according to how they are used on e621.

For starters, using just TWYS (Tag What You See), what is the role of any gender, or to be more precise, any physical sex defined as? Just looking at any one of our profile pictures, what is my duck's role as a male? What is your rabbit's as a female? Dba's fish as a male? SNP's elf as ambiguously gendered? How do we determine what their role is? By whose standards is it traditional? Mine? Yours? A duck's? A multi-tentacled BEM's from Planet X? Remember, lore is irrelevant here because most will not know or care about the lore.

Going only by the one thing we can all see and agree on, the visual cues in the picture itself, the only gender role we've got to go by is the physical sex. Because e621 deals with seven sexes (ambiguous, male, female, andromorph, gynomorph, herm, and maleherm), instead of using "the opposite gender (AKA physical sex)", we use "another gender (AKA physical sex)". So, for the purposes of TWYS on e621 (and on other boorus and sites as well, as I doubt this originated on e621), crossgender boils down to "taking or pertaining to the traditional appearance of another physical sex", which, on this site, is virtually the same thing as genderswap.

If that still doesn't satisfy, remember, that's how it's used by taggers on e621. The staff didn't arbitrarily establish it. The community organically did.

Well that's dumb why not keep rule 63? That is like changing the name rule 34 to "porn" like the rule was there for a reason lol

Because it's redundant and unclear. Why should we keep rule_63 when crossgender also exists and when far more people understand what crossgender means, as we use it here, without having to read the wiki?

Also, we did indeed alias away rule_34 to invalid tag as there aren't any good, clear, singular tags to alias it to. We can't alias it to porn because what exactly is porn? Not all porn has sex in it. Not all porn is Explicit (nor is all Explicit porn). What I might consider pornographic, you might laugh off as suggestive, and vice versa. Porn and Rule 34 are just too vague and subjective for e621's purposes, believe it or not.

Also androgynous means partly male and partly female in appearance; of indeterminate sex

But genderswap isn't being indeterminate it's a change of the character's canonical sex if it was androgynous, then you get tomboy or femboy... I think? I could be wrong on that one, but my point at least from how I'm interpreting the word, androgynous means you're uncertain if the person is either male or female which then boils down to if you say androgynous male, you have a clear definition which defeats the point of having androgynous in the first place, at least in my opinion

How are andromorph and gynomorph androgynous? In order to be tagged, their physical sex can't be indeterminate. Even though they're a mix of male and female physical appearances, you would still be able to tell what their physical sex is. So, again, they can't be androgynous. They also have little do with being transgendered.

We also don't tag androgynous as it was aliased away to ambiguous_gender because they mean the same thing on e621.

Like dba afish says above, read the tags' wikis to see how they're used by the community of e621.

Gads, I'm so slow. :\

clawstripe said:
Gads, I'm so slow. :\

Hey it still has value!

publicenemy1 said:
I'm not talking about andromorph or gyromorph we were talking about rule 63, why are you talking about gyromorph and andromorph?

We mentioned them because we wanted to help you be able to find them, after you mentioned them right here:

publicenemy1 said:
I mean I have a tough time trying to find cuntboys and shemales as it is when the new tag is androgynous male and androgynous female, like that's not what I'm looking for.

You're having a tough time because we don't use androgynous male and androgynous female. Searching for them won't get you what you want. Use andromorph and gynomorph instead.

Gynomorph is a word used to describe an organism with female physical characteristics.

As used on e621, gynomorph is a word used to describe an organism with female physical characteristics and male genitals. I.e. a cuntboy, but not a slur.

And andromorph is gynomorph I looked up gyromorph which turned to gynomorph, and when looking up andromorph I got the same gynomorph

As used on e621, andromorph is a word used to describe an organism with male physical characteristics and female genitals. I.e. a shemale, but not a slur.

These terms have nothing to do with a character being transgendered. In fact, I'd say most andromorph and gynomorph characters could arguably qualify as being cisgendered (identifying as their physical sex) because fictional characters don't have to stick to a male/female paradigm in their canon. As for transgender, it has its own separate tag, trans_(lore).

clawstripe said:
We mentioned them because we wanted to help you be able to find them, after you mentioned them right here:
You're having a tough time because we don't use androgynous male and androgynous female. Searching for them won't get you what you want. Use andromorph and gynomorph instead.

As used on e621, gynomorph is a word used to describe an organism with female physical characteristics and male genitals. I.e. a cuntboy, but not a slur.

As used on e621, andromorph is a word used to describe an organism with male physical characteristics and female genitals. I.e. a shemale, but not a slur.

These terms have nothing to do with a character being transgendered. In fact, I'd say most andromorph and gynomorph characters could arguably qualify as being cisgendered (identifying as their physical sex) because fictional characters don't have to stick to a male/female paradigm in their canon. As for transgender, it has its own separate tag, trans_(lore).

Oh

dba_afish said:
wait a sec...

dude, you've been here since 2018. crossgender has been the tagname for this concept since forever, and we've been using the current tagnames for the intersex genders since 2019. why are you just questioning this now?

Wait really? Huh... I must have not noticed it until now

clawstripe said:
You're having a tough time because we don't use androgynous male and androgynous female.

actually... should we have androgynous_male and androgynous_female as tags? or would it be too difficult to determine where the lines between "normal" "androgynous" and "femboy/tomboy" are?

dba_afish said:
actually... should we have androgynous_male and androgynous_female as tags? or would it be too difficult to determine where the lines between "normal" "androgynous" and "femboy/tomboy" are?

I feel like tomboy and femboy already are the androgynous male and androgynous female, might confuse people if that was taken away, especially because it's a popular cultural term

publicenemy1 said:
I feel like tomboy and femboy already are the androgynous male and androgynous female, might confuse people if that was taken away, especially because it's a popular cultural term

kind of? but I feel like there's still room for a tag to describe characters who are tagged male or female strictly because their genitals were visible but they'd otherwise be ambiguous. it just seems like there's kind of a gap there.

I feel like the problem with this would be that it's be mostly useless since ferals would likely be massively overrepresented.