The title mostly says it all
The upload page has a box for tags that are contentious and I have it on good faith that barazoku fits into that category perfectly
It is criminally underused by uploaders and honestly I know the only real amelioration is to just bring attention to it so that more people can be made aware of the tag and use it more often
I've already added it to hundreds of posts, and to put the argument preemptively to bed, I think that I have a fair understanding of which posts do and do not deserve the tag.
Ultimately it's a case of "I know it when I see it" when determining if it's just a dad-bod or just one buff guy with differing appearances included

This is partially venting but I think it's also a fair criticism (or call to action, whichever you prefer) on a fetishized body type that enough people find distasteful enough to lose the mood if you will.
Also sorry if wrong Category

That is not what the contentious tags box is for. It's for actual extreme content like cub, gore, scat etc. Bara is not that. And it's genuinely not so important that it would need to be elevated on the upload page.

If you feel like a tag is underused, and you feel this strongly about it, you need to take it as a project to start tagging it a lot more regularly. This is why I have almost 30 pages of me adding big breasts tag on posts, and this is why I have same amount of me cleaning up humanoid tags off posts it does not belong. This is something I care more about than grand majority of users, so I do what I can to fix it.

yeah bara definitely does not qualify as contentious
There are very few tags people will actually be punished for not including (this is what contentious tags are), and bara is definitely not one of them

Contentious tags are basically things some people have a heavy dislike/adverse reaction for, like feces, death, mlp, etc

Personally, I think barazoku should be aliased away. It's basically a tag for muscular males, which we already have a tag for, using a japanese word that many people don't know. Any further details someone thinks should apply to the tag is vague and subjective, a case of "I know it when I see it", as you say, which different people disagree on beyond the basic muscular_male.

In case you don't know what contentious means in the context of this website:
"Fetishes or subjects that other users may find extreme or objectionable." "Ex: young gore scat watersports diaper my_little_pony vore not_furry rape hyper etc."
It's quite obvious that the suggestions are very broad and several of the actual examples are even less egregious. So unless those are severely outdated, barazoku is a contentious fetish. Making arguments about it and it's objectionableness is the definition of contentious.
But thanks for your opinions, at least I can appreciate Rupi having a similar experience with their own battle in correcting tags.

I made no mention of punishment for not including tags so I don't know where that's coming from.

While it's interpretation can be vague, Bara is a definitive genre of art and a recognizable taste/style

nin10dope said:
In case you don't know what contentious means in the context of this website:
"Fetishes or subjects that other users may find extreme or objectionable." "Ex: young gore scat watersports diaper my_little_pony vore not_furry rape hyper etc."
It's quite obvious that the suggestions are very broad and several of the actual examples are even less egregious. So unless those are severely outdated, barazoku is a contentious fetish. Making arguments about it and it's objectionableness is the definition of contentious.
But thanks for your opinions, at least I can appreciate Rupi having a similar experience with their own battle in correcting tags.

I made no mention of punishment for not including tags so I don't know where that's coming from.

While it's interpretation can be vague, Bara is a definitive genre of art and a recognizable taste/style

Muscular/ dadbod men in a bara style are not akin to any of those. The only reason mlp was contentious was because of the old days of the site where people absolutely hated it to an extreme amount. Every other contentious tag makes sense.

Young - a lot of people don’t want to see any erotic artwork of young characters
Gore/snuff - a lot of people don’t want to see hardcore gore or dead bodies
Scat/ water sports/ diapers - a lot of people don’t want to see bodily waste
Rape- a lot of people don’t want to see art depicting rape or non consensual sex acts.
Not_furry - this is a site for furries, a lot of people hate seeing human only stuff or humanoid only stuff
Hyper - too a lesser extent, but many people prefer somewhat realistic proportions and don’t wish to see art of characters with ridiculously oversized parts,

Bara is an art style, and it is not controversial enough to be a contentious tag. It is nowhere as extreme as any of the other tags.

I try and tag it when I see it myself since I’m not particularly fond of the style, but it’s nothing that would genuinely offend or disgust a huge portion of people like the other tags. (Bar mlp, as I don’t think it really counts as contentious anymore, as we’re passed the “ewwww brownies are cringe” stage.)

manitka said:
Muscular/ dadbod men in a bara style are not akin to any of those. The only reason mlp was contentious was because of the old days of the site where people absolutely hated it to an extreme amount. Every other contentious tag makes sense.

Young - a lot of people don’t want to see any erotic artwork of young characters
Gore/snuff - a lot of people don’t want to see hardcore gore or dead bodies
Scat/ water sports/ diapers - a lot of people don’t want to see bodily waste
Rape- a lot of people don’t want to see art depicting rape or non consensual sex acts.
Not_furry - this is a site for furries, a lot of people hate seeing human only stuff or humanoid only stuff
Hyper - too a lesser extent, but many people prefer somewhat realistic proportions and don’t wish to see art of characters with ridiculously oversized parts,

Bara is an art style, and it is not controversial enough to be a contentious tag. It is nowhere as extreme as any of the other tags.

I try and tag it when I see it myself since I’m not particularly fond of the style, but it’s nothing that would genuinely offend or disgust a huge portion of people like the other tags. (Bar mlp, as I don’t think it really counts as contentious anymore, as we’re passed the “ewwww brownies are cringe” stage.)

Your points on the examples are literally my point on bara, so you must be misunderstanding why I made this post because everyone else wanted to argue the definition of a word in the uploader page
Many people don't wish to see it
If even one more person who uploads sees this and starts adding the tag appropriately, then my post was a success.

"The blacklist doesn't work if the tag isn't being used enough"
That should simplify it enough for everyone to not misconstrue the complaint

nin10dope said:
Your points on the examples are literally my point on bara, so you must be misunderstanding why I made this post because everyone else wanted to argue the definition of a word in the uploader page
Many people don't wish to see it
If even one more person who uploads sees this and starts adding the tag appropriately, then my post was a success.

Okay let me rephrase with this way more people would rather not see those other tags than would not like to see bara.

Look at the downvotes on feces posts and the downvotes on bara posts and tell me they are the same.

watsit said:
Personally, I think barazoku should be aliased away. It's basically a tag for muscular males, which we already have a tag for, using a japanese word that many people don't know. Any further details someone thinks should apply to the tag is vague and subjective, a case of "I know it when I see it", as you say, which different people disagree on beyond the basic muscular_male.

Honestly I agree. I don't really see any significant difference beyond bara usually having boxier snouts and being in or influenced by kemono style.

Hmm, compare:
barazoku -muscular_male
-barazoku muscular_male

There's definitely stylistic differences between the two.
It's also a reference to 'bears'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barazoku The OG.

alphamule said:
barazoku -muscular_male

A number of those should be tagged muscular_male. Some of those aren't even male so shouldn't be barazoku, along with stuff like post #2218588 and post #2218594.

What makes these "bara":
post #5428468 post #5413167 post #5426821
but not these:
post #5416123 post #5429542 post #5429477

manitka said:
Okay let me rephrase with this way more people would rather not see those other tags than would not like to see bara.

Look at the downvotes on feces posts and the downvotes on bara posts and tell me they are the same.

That's fair but we all know that what gets up and down voted on this site is definitely questionable and arbitrary :P

watsit said:
A number of those should be tagged muscular_male. Some of those aren't even male so shouldn't be barazoku. And stuff like the series starting with post #2218588.

What makes these "bara":
post #5428468 post #5413167 post #5426821
but not these:
post #5416123 post #5429542 post #5429477

The top left one is arguably not bara, it probably got the tag for the nipple ring
The bottom middle 100% is
It's usually a combination of things
Head/face shape often plays a part
I'm sure if someone sat down and really thought it out, they could come up with a checklist or bullet points
But that's not the topic of this post, so that discussion can happen somewhere else lol

nin10dope said:
That's fair but we all know that what gets up and down voted on this site is definitely questionable and arbitrary :P

Yeah for sure the votes can be wild, but a slight dislike ≠ content that actually disgusts people. I think that’s the takeaway of why it doesn’t count as contentious.

On the other topic of if we should keep it,
I’d like if we kept it as a tag so I can continue to hide it from my searches, since I don’t mind muscular men or dad bods, I just don’t like bara it squicks me out, no clue why it just does *shrugs*

nin10dope said:
"The blacklist doesn't work if the tag isn't being used enough"
That should simplify it enough for everyone to not misconstrue the complaint

This applies to every tag that has ever and will ever exist
Most users do not care about properly tagging uploads, the only ones that are going to care/know are the ones scared of being banned, the ones already familiar with boorus, or power uploaders

nin10dope said:
I made no mention of punishment for not including tags so I don't know where that's coming from.

The only way tags reliably get applied is punishments for not applying them, else people have no incentive to use the tag and can continue on not bothering

I'd also hardly consider Bara especially contentious in any sense of the word
If you're applying a broad disinterest or distaste, this can be said for many people about specific genders, just because gay people don't like females that doesn't suddenly make female characters contentious content

manitka said:
Yeah for sure the votes can be wild, but a slight dislike ≠ content that actually disgusts people. I think that’s the takeaway of why it doesn’t count as contentious.

On the other topic of if we should keep it,
I’d like if we kept it as a tag so I can continue to hide it from my searches, since I don’t mind muscular men or dad bods, I just don’t like bara it squicks me out, no clue why it just does *shrugs*

That feeling right there though, the squicks, it's not unreasonable to equate that to disgust. I feel the exact same way and I know several users of this site who do as well. That feeling is why I just want to spread awareness of the tag and the necessity of it, both for and against the style and appeal

nin10dope said:
That feeling right there though, the squicks, it's not unreasonable to equate that to disgust. I feel the exact same way and I know several users of this site who do as well.

Comparing large muscles to underage characters, bodily waste, and violence is unreasonable

nin10dope said:
That feeling is why I just want to spread awareness of the tag and the necessity of it, both for and against the style and appeal

The users of the forum are the power users, they are the most likely to already be tagging well beyond requirements and not missing tags like this
You are preaching to likely less than 1% of the userbase

donovan_dmc said:
The users of the forum are the power users, they are the most likely to already be tagging well beyond requirements and not missing tags like this
You are preaching to likely less than 1% of the userbase

Like I said, if even one single person sees this and starts using the tag, then mission accomplished. Pessimism be damned

nin10dope said:
It's usually a combination of things
Head/face shape often plays a part
I'm sure if someone sat down and really thought it out, they could come up with a checklist or bullet points

That's pretty much the issue. A vague combination of things, nothing specific, maybe someone can make a list if they really tried, meanwhile people just tag it on whatever they feel fits. "I'll know it when I see it," when everyone has their own ideas of it.

nin10dope said:
But that's not the topic of this post, so that discussion can happen somewhere else lol

It is. How can barazoku be tagged more consistently if there's no clear definition for what it applies to? You think it doesn't apply to post #5428468, someone else does. I see no difference between post #5416123 and post #5413167 for one to be tagged it and the other not. Someone thinks it applies to post #2218588 when it's not even tagged male, let alone has any other attribute mentioned in the wiki. It's going to end up on posts you think it doesn't belong, and people think it doesn't belong on posts you think it should.

watsit said:
That's pretty much the issue. A vague combination of things, nothing specific, maybe someone can make a list if they really tried, meanwhile people just tag it on whatever they feel fits. "I'll know it when I see it," when everyone has their own ideas of it.

It is. How can barazoku be tagged more consistently if there's no clear definition for what it applies to? You think it doesn't apply to post #5428468, someone else does. I see no difference between post #5416123 and post #5413167 for one to be tagged it and the other not. Someone thinks it applies to post #2218588 when it's not even tagged male, let alone has any other attribute mentioned in the wiki. It's going to end up on posts you think it doesn't belong, and people think it doesn't belong on posts you think it should.

I'd actually question the ability for something that has no solid definition to be a contentious tag. It really feels like this is a case of "I want a tag for images I find ugly."

For me bara was shorten way to say what you like. Didn't find it useful as tag since you will skip other pictures that was not tagged as bara.

watsit said:
Personally, I think barazoku should be aliased away. It's basically a tag for muscular males,

manly

Never once in my entire life has someone mentioned Bara as being a no-no fetish or kink. It's extremely tame, especially with the stuff furries like to draw. If you want it tagged more, you're free to do it yourself anytime.

yetanotheraiuser said:
For me bara was shorten way to say what you like. Didn't find it useful as tag since you will skip other pictures that was not tagged as bara.

manly

Oh, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what the bara tag is for.

yetanotheraiuser said:
For me bara was shorten way to say what you like. Didn't find it useful as tag since you will skip other pictures that was not tagged as bara.

manly

I actually have never noticed the manly tag before, that's crazy

regsmutt said:
It really feels like this is a case of "I want a tag for images I find ugly."

If you really really need a definitive description, it's the "bear" body type aesthetic
"masculine men with varying degrees of muscle, body fat, and body hair" and "lack of definition in abdominal muscle"
Just because you might be ignorant of the genre and might be unable to recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

For the people struggling with this concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bara_(genre)

And because some people are really struggling with what the suggestion of a tag being contentious on this site is, bara being one is the exact same argument as why not_furry and my_little_pony are examples used by e621 itself. Some people just don't want to see it.

purelyforablacklist said:
If you want it tagged more, you're free to do it yourself anytime.

If you actually read the post before leaving a comment you would've seen that I already do this frequently.

nin10dope said:
If you really really need a definitive description, it's the "bear" body type aesthetic
"masculine men with varying degrees of muscle, body fat, and body hair" and "lack of definition in abdominal muscle"
Just because you might be ignorant of the genre and might be unable to recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

For the people struggling with this concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bara_(genre)

I know what the genre is I'm just not seeing a consistently taggable difference between it and other tags like manly. It seems to be tagged as 'manly combined with musclegut/muscular with an I-know-when-I-see-it secret-sauce.'

Some people just don't want to see it.

There is literally no tag that this doesn't apply to. Pink_fur isn't getting considered contentious any time soon just because some people don't want to see it.

regsmutt said:
I know what the genre is I'm just not seeing a consistently taggable difference between it and other tags like manly. It seems to be tagged as 'manly combined with musclegut/muscular with an I-know-when-I-see-it secret-sauce.'

There is literally no tag that this doesn't apply to. Pink_fur isn't getting considered contentious any time soon just because some people don't want to see it.

I'm not advocating that it be listed in some rulebook as one of the contentious tags, I think that's where people are losing it
It was an analogy for the argument of "People don't want to see it and it's not getting tagged"

nin10dope said:
I'm not advocating that it be listed in some rulebook as one of the contentious tags, I think that's where people are losing it
It was an analogy for the argument of "People don't want to see it and it's not getting tagged"

Again, people will almost always not care about including a tag unless they get punished for not including it
This topic feels like it's just running around in useless circles and helping precisely no one