Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
The tag alias #76117 conditioning -> brainwashing has been rejected.
Reason: conditioning has no wiki description and I don't see a meaningful difference in the tagged posts.
EDIT: The tag alias conditioning -> brainwashing (forum #445682) has been rejected by @Beholding.
Updated by auto moderator
I haven't looked through the posts, but the words don't mean the same thing at all.
brainwashing = mind control
conditioning = Pavlovian response
crocogator said:
I haven't looked through the posts, but the words don't mean the same thing at all.
brainwashing = mind control
conditioning = Pavlovian response
Brainwashing is not mind control. It's changing someone's behavior through extreme torture and/or emotional manipulation. Pavlovian conditioning is a technique used in brainwashing, but they're so similar I don't see the purpose in having separate tags.
beholding said:
Brainwashing is not mind control. It's changing someone's behavior through extreme torture and/or emotional manipulation. Pavlovian conditioning is a technique used in brainwashing, but they're so similar I don't see the purpose in having separate tags.
Equating a torture/indoctrination method with how animals are trained is wild
Classical conditioning can even be done on humans, and it's hardly brainwashing
donovan_dmc said:
Equating a torture/indoctrination method with how animals are trained is wild
Classical conditioning can even be done on humans, and it's hardly brainwashing
Equating the porn logic version of something to how it's used in real life is wild.
As far as I can tell, all the posts currently tagged with conditioning depict brainwashing or mind control. If there's a material difference, please explain it, then add it to the wiki so people aren't confused in the future.
Updated
beholding said:
Equating the porn logic version of something to how it's used in real life is wild.
The terms and definitions used in real-life can have an impact on how the tag is perceived to be used, like how feral and bestiality are often confused by new users.
Since conditioning does not have an established wiki definition, defaulting to the "porn logic" version of it is just bad practice.
As far as I can tell, all the posts currently tagged with conditioning depict brainwashing or mind control. If there's a material difference, please explain it, then add it to the wiki so people aren't confused in the future.
Maybe consider moving the posts instead of outright aliasing it? Overlaps does not necessarily mean "used in the same fashion" as it could also mean "mistagged when there is another suitable tag".
Leaving a tag empty and unused is also an option if aliasing is not desirable. Otherwise, a proper wiki definition is needed to lower counts of mistags.
thegreatwolfgang said:
The terms and definitions used in real-life can have an impact on how the tag is perceived to be used, like how feral and bestiality are often confused by new users.Since conditioning does not have an established wiki definition, defaulting to the "porn logic" version of it is just bad practice.
I see your point, but the fact of the matter is that people demonstrably are defaulting to the porn logic version of it. This is apparent if you look at the posts.
Actually, let's be rigorous about this. conditioning -mind_control -brainwashing produces 14 posts, 2 of which I have blacklisted. Of the remainder:
Only reference to conditioning is in the description, which doesn't count for tagging purposes. This should not have been tagged in the first place.
Same.
Same.
This is conditioning, but it's so extreme I think "brainwashing" is the more accurate of the two terms.
I don't see how this involves conditioning at all.
Once again, only reference to conditioning is in the description.
This is a legitimate example of conditioning.
Once again this was tagged based on description, and even then I'd say it's more accurately described as Stockholm syndrome or until_they_like_it.
This looks like brainwashing to me.
No evidence any conditioning is involved here.
This is just... being nice to someone?
That's one, maybe two posts out of 34 with legitimate examples of conditioning that don't overlap with brainwashing. I can't see much justification for keeping it separate.
Updated
beholding said:
That's one, maybe two posts out of 34 with legitimate examples of conditioning that don't overlap with brainwashing. I can't see much justification for keeping it separate.
Maybe change category conditioning -> invalid, and write a wiki like this?
Ambiguous tag. Use brainwashing or pavlovian_response instead.
Note: Per TWYS, only tag based on the contents of the post and not based on external knowledge.
Oh, didn't know we had a pavlovian_response tag. Yes, that's a lot better.
The bulk update request #10903 is pending approval.
change category conditioning (30) -> invalid
Reason: An alternative, as previously suggested.
crocogator said:
Maybe change category conditioning -> invalid, and write a wiki like this?
Rather than just changing it to invalid it should be made a disambiguation if you're going to point to multiple other tags to use
The tag alias conditioning -> brainwashing (forum #445682) has been rejected by @Beholding.
The bulk update request #10907 is pending approval.
create alias conditioning (30) -> conditioning_(disambiguation) (0)
change category conditioning_(disambiguation) (0) -> invalid
Reason: Let's vote on that, then.
beholding said:
post #3374708This is just... being nice to someone?
That's one, maybe two posts out of 34 with legitimate examples of conditioning that don't overlap with brainwashing. I can't see much justification for keeping it separate.
I'm just gonna be the Um Actually guy and say that conditioning can legitimately be that simple sometimes
