So, this tag has been a topic of interest for me the past month, and here's why:

• The wiki page for masturbation says that "A character can't masturbate another character" and then later in the same paragraph, "If multiple characters are doing this to each other simultaneously, it's mutual masturbation."

There is a mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication.

This tags' meaning clearly contradicts itself. I have discussed this contradiction and how to rectify it with another staff member a couple times, but after a lack of progression on the matter (mainly due to closed arguments and differing opinions on how masturbation should be defined), I feel this would be better solved with more opinions about how to clear this up and forming a consensus from there.

Three solutions I have seen so far are:
1: Imply handjob and fingering to masturbation, to make the site's definition of masturbation correct by the dictionary. Editing the wiki page on masturbation would also be required, so as to not be contradictive of itself anymore. (Note: handjob/fingering -> masturbation implications have been removed in favour of easeness of searches before)
2: Remove the mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication. Mutual masturbation would still be defined as two people giving each other handjobs/fingering each other. Renaming mutual masturbation to a term without masturbation in it so as to avoid confusion would also be acceptable.
3: Scenario 2, but with the complete removal of the mutual_masturbation tag and wiki. Posts previously tagged with mutual_masturbation would be found by searching gay handjob, lesbian fingering, and so forth.

I'm in favour of option 2 or 3, myself. Keeping tags simple and easy to search is an important thing.

As usual, responses go below.

hs-hyena said:

3: Scenario 2, but with the complete removal of the mutual_masturbation tag and wiki. Posts previously tagged with mutual_masturbation would be found by searching gay handjob, lesbian fingering, and so forth.

Please, no. There needs to be a specific tag for the activity currently covered by mutual_masturbation, although I'd be okay with finding a different one if it would be clearer (I really don't think it would be). As an analogy, do you think that it would be acceptable to remove the 69 tag because posts featuring 69ing can be found with gay fellatio/lesbian cunnilingus/fellatio cunnilingus (and that's ignoring 69 with rimming involved)? Sure, you'll find what you're looking for, but it's going to be buried in a ton of posts that aren't what you're looking for. That's a loss of usability.

I think the best solution is to get rid of the mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication. It is confusing that a post tagged with mutual_masturbation generally shouldn't also be tagged masturbation, but...mutual_masturbation is the accepted term, and I really can't think of a good replacement.

Mutual masturbation is when two people are giving a hand job/fingering to each other, so it's like 69, kinda. Removing that tag would be like removing the 69 tag, kinda. I'd say option 2.

Snowy said:

I think the best solution is to get rid of the mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication. It is confusing that a post tagged with mutual_masturbation generally shouldn't also be tagged masturbation, but...mutual_masturbation is the accepted term, and I really can't think of a good replacement.

The Wikipedia page on the subject does list "manual intercourse" as an alternative to mutual masturbation. Doesn't have the same sorta ring to it, but it could work.

Searches for mutual_masterbation and masterbation -solo should turn up the same thing, manual_intercourse is not mutual_masterbation by hand placement, theres going to be a hard time figuring out how to sort out solo masterbating with someone else in the picture from mutual_masterbation.

manual_intercourse is when two or more manually stimulate eachother, mutual_masterbation is when two or more manually stimulate themselves.

Rarborman said:
Searches for mutual_masterbation and masterbation -solo should turn up the same thing, manual_intercourse is not mutual_masterbation by hand placement, theres going to be a hard time figuring out how to sort out solo masterbating with someone else in the picture from mutual_masterbation.

manual_intercourse is when two or more manually stimulate eachother, mutual_masterbation is when two or more manually stimulate themselves.

Sorry, but that is not what mutual masturbation means.
Mutual masturbation is two characters giving each other handjobs/fingering each other. Manual intercourse and mutual masturbation mean the same thing.

hs-hyena said:
Sorry, but that is not what mutual masturbation means.
Mutual masturbation is two characters giving each other handjobs/fingering each other. Manual intercourse and mutual masturbation mean the same thing.

Aye. Multiple characters manually stimulating themselves would be, at best, group_masturbation. But I think masturbation is sufficient for such images.

I would like to bite your head for being technicly wrong, in the fact that handjobs and fingering is only masterbation when done to oneself and manual intercourse is when done to someone else, but your not going to learn; so I'll just nod and say thats nice, I gave advice they're your tags do what you want I dont use them.

Rarborman said:
I would like to bite your head for being technicly wrong, in the fact that handjobs and fingering is only masterbation when done to oneself and manual intercourse is when done to someone else, but your not going to learn; so I'll just nod and say thats nice, I gave advice they're your tags do what you want I dont use them.

If I might throw this in, Wikipedia says that "mutual masturbation"="manual intercourse," and can in fact be either stimulation of the self or partner. So I was (probably) wrong, but you and HMS Hyena were (probably) right and wrong, on different counts.

In other news: no need to be condescending about it. Indeed I see you don't use tags, and in fact didn't bother to put any on your uploads. If you don't participate in the system, you shouldn't be so up tight about how the system is run, friend.

*Update*

An addition to Scenario 1:

While I may have opposed this scenario in the beginning, it is starting to seem like the best way to go for me.
If handjob and fingering -> masturbation implications were added:

• Characters masturbating themselves would be found by searching solo masturbation.

Characters masturbating each other would be found by searching mutual_masturbation.
Characters masturbating themselves in a group would be found by searching group_masturbation.
Everything else masturbation would be found by searching masturbation -handjob -fingering -footjob.
It would look better for us to have a more stable reasoning for why we call things what they are than "because we said so".

What does everyone think about this, then?

hs-hyena said:
*Update*

An addition to Scenario 1:

While I may have opposed this scenario in the beginning, it is starting to seem like the best way to go for me.
If handjob and fingering -> masturbation implications were added:

• Characters masturbating themselves would be found by searching solo masturbation.

Characters masturbating each other would be found by searching mutual_masturbation.
Characters masturbating themselves in a group would be found by searching group_masturbation.
Everything else masturbation would be found by searching masturbation -handjob -fingering -footjob.
It would look better for us to have a more stable reasoning for why we call things what they are than "because we said so".

What does everyone think about this, then?

What if we created an additional tag called "manual_intercourse" that had handjob, fingering, footjob, and mutual_masturbation implicated to it. Then if you ever want to essentially eliminate all of these implications and want to find only solo pics of masturbation, you search for "masturbation -manual_intercourse".

This is assuming that handjob, footjob, fingering, and mutual_masturbation are all implicated to "masturbation" of course.

Char said:
What if we created an additional tag called "manual_intercourse" that had handjob, fingering, footjob, and mutual_masturbation implicated to it. Then if you ever want to essentially eliminate all of these implications and want to find only solo pics of masturbation, you search for "masturbation -manual_intercourse".

This is assuming that handjob, footjob, fingering, and mutual_masturbation are all implicated to "masturbation" of course.

That is a good idea, but manual intercourse means the same thing as mutual masturbation. Maybe the umbrella tag could be non-penetrative_sex? We'd have to imply sex to that, of course.

I think the simplest solution is to edit the conflicting wiki entries.

null0010 said:
I think the simplest solution is to edit the conflicting wiki entries.

There will need to be new implications made, regardless.

I'd just like to say just because wikipedia says something doent make it the beat all truth, like any wiki it is limited by the fact that the 'facts' are put there by bias'd people and if I wanted could edit it to say anything that seam 'true'; so dont believe what you read on the internet.

Best way to determine term meaning is to look at it in parts, for the main action word. (can you intercourse yourself?)

At first I was hesitant about the mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication ,but like you mentioned hs,one can simply find pictures without another person by including solo,so there's no problem (to my knowledge) there.

Would the mutual_masturbation tag still be used in orgies such as post #111959 ,where one person is receiving a blowjob,but the giver is being penetrated as well?

titaniachkt said:
At first I was hesitant about the mutual_masturbation -> masturbation implication ,but like you mentioned hs,one can simply find pictures without another person by including solo,so there's no problem (to my knowledge) there.

Would the mutual_masturbation tag still be used in orgies such as post #111959 ,where one person is receiving a blowjob,but the giver is being penetrated as well?

No, blowjobs and penetration aren't masturbation.

Rarborman said:
I'd just like to say just because wikipedia says something doent make it the beat all truth, like any wiki it is limited by the fact that the 'facts' are put there by bias'd people and if I wanted could edit it to say anything that seam 'true'; so dont believe what you read on the internet.

Best way to determine term meaning is to look at it in parts, for the main action word. (can you intercourse yourself?)

Well, no. At least, not without the help of a portal gun.
In response to what you said about Wikipedia: it's true that Wikipedia does not always contain factual information, but it does provide a somewhat reliable source to base our definitions off of.

Rarborman said:
Best way to determine term meaning is to look at it in parts, for the main action word. (can you intercourse yourself?)

post #12476

What if I want to find pictures of someone jerking themselves off while looking at a girl? or while watching two other people?

Maybe we should get rid of masturbation as a tag. Use handjob, fingering footjob, etc to imply manual_stimulation and use self_stimulation for the idea that someone is getting themselves off?

masturbation has long been a hotly debated definition--can you masurbate someone else? some say yes, some say no, and no one budges on the matter... so get rid of the word entirely and use words that are not a point of contention.

>.< portal why, why you do that? I'm going to add "without spacial warping" to my statement; as to answer above more people are going to search for masterbation than manual stimulation or whatever, and masterbation used to discribe manual intercourse (handjobs fingerings footjobs titfuck hotdogging galleywagging ect.) is always going to happen, and if it was changed people would still tag wrongly.

SnowWolf said:
What if I want to find pictures of someone jerking themselves off while looking at a girl? or while watching two other people?

Maybe we should get rid of masturbation as a tag. Use handjob, fingering footjob, etc to imply manual_stimulation and use self_stimulation for the idea that someone is getting themselves off?

masturbation has long been a hotly debated definition--can you masurbate someone else? some say yes, some say no, and no one budges on the matter... so get rid of the word entirely and use words that are not a point of contention.

Well, the dictionary's definition is more correct, but most peoples' idea of masturbation is stimulating yourself.
I fail to see what would be so hard about picking a definition to use and sticking with it. Being somewhere in the middle isn't really an option.

@Rarborman:
People do things differently. It's a fact of life. Which is why, in a community that favours order, we do what we can to maintain that order.

P.S. The mutual masturbation -> masturbation implication got removed a few hours ago. Another step towards a solution!

Riversyde said:
No, blowjobs and penetration aren't masturbation.Well, no. At least, not without the help of a portal gun.

We're talking about fantasy creatures here. There're plenty of ways to penetrate yourself when the size/length and positioning of cocks and orifices are at your whim...

Maybe have it nutual_handjobs or mutual_fingering/etc instead of mm? Those make much more sence than the illogical mm tag which has been exposed already.