titaniachkt said:
I wonder what were to happen if we tagged both genders in cases like these

Dont divide by zero.... D:

Also can already tell this is going to be a huge headache. Ive already seen people trying to use outside information to tag genders and sexuality based on the new addition to the rule and "artist" refrence. ._.

Renard_Queenston said:
5) Fuck you. That's why.

Are you like, the Oprah of verbal/text-based hostility?

"And YOU get a fuck-you! And YOU get a fuck-you!"

Esme_Belles said:
Dont divide by zero.... D:

Also can already tell this is going to be a huge headache. Ive already seen people trying to use outside information to tag genders and sexuality based on the new addition to the rule and "artist" refrence. ._.

We should first educate then punish them then

Half of the commenters here are fucking potatos. No fucking clue of any common sense.

Aeshma said:
Are you like, the Oprah of verbal/text-based hostility?

"And YOU get a fuck-you! And YOU get a fuck-you!"

EVERYBODY GETS A FUCK YOU

Murmillos said:
Half of the commenters here are fucking potatos. No fucking clue of any common sense.

Half of these commenters are grapes, let them ferment a bit and they make a really good wine :)

Aurali said:
Half of these commenters are grapes, let them ferment a bit and they make a really good wine :)

whine

Char said:
The issue with this is that you can not even begin to derive that information from that picture itself; if there's no evidence to even SUGGEST that it's a herm, then it can't be tagged as such.

The reason why this doesn't apply as much to tagging character names is that usually there IS evidence within the image to suggest who the character is; sometimes it's not definitive proof, but it narrows things down. Using an extra bit of information from an official source to definitively tag the character name isn't such a big deal at that point. Using external information to completely change the apparent gender of a character IS a big deal, and so it's not tolerated.

Again, this change to TWYS is not intended to do anything more than solve a problem with characters remaining untagged when it's fairly obvious to most people who the character is, especially given the usual context of e621.net's content.

What about cases where the character in question is a known and established character and the gender is known both off site and in site through context of other posts?

I've seen an artist post their own work and get harassed about a herm post simply because the art piece didn't so a vagina. It was their character, so it seems like they would know it is the right tag.

Peekaboo said:
I can't really say I'm upset over this small change, TWYS have worked most of the time and this small change to it won't really make things worse, the only negative side to it is that it might create some drama and tagging issues between artists and users.
Still, I don't understand why some people act as if it's the end of the world

So they dress as blokes and get pissed off when people mistake em' for actually being male? :|

People seem to exaggerate their emotions online quite a bit.

So others see them as Ultra Deluxe Limited Edition butthurt.But they're actually just plain butthurt.

Hammie said:
whine

yes. that was the joke.

AtticusVulpes said:
What about cases where the character in question is a known and established character and the gender is known both off site and in site through context of other posts?

I've seen an artist post their own work and get harassed about a herm post simply because the art piece didn't so a vagina. It was their character, so it seems like they would know it is the right tag.

Despite the change tags are still for searching. People who search for herm want to see pussy, or at least camel toe. It's different case when you have simple, rather objective rules (No pussy - no herm), than rather subjective guessing how much character on pic resembles some other character, and is this enough to tag it.

And if someone is really harassed (enforcing rules is not a harassment) then there is ticket system for that.

Also there was whole forum thread about gender tagging, see forum #22963

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Despite the change tags are still for searching. People who search for herm want to see pussy, or at least camel toe. It's different case when you have simple, rather objective rules (No pussy - no herm), than rather subjective guessing how much character on pic resembles some other character, and is this enough to tag it.

And if someone is really harassed (enforcing rules is not a harassment) then there is ticket system for that.

Also there was whole forum thread about gender tagging, see forum #22963

Have I told you guys how difficult leaving the bigender norm is? you got like 10 new genders and it's really hard to distinguish between a dick girl and a female herm sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith...

the picture not showing the extra parts? is it because the part's aren't visible or are they just non-existent.. I dunno how well this will take, but if it could be a dick girl or a female herm, and the difference is just the angle of the shot... is there really a problem tagging both?

I'm sure some character owners might be upset that they are getting an extra tag.. but they are the ones who had the image drawn that way >.> it's not harming the search engine, and both sets of searchers wouldn't lose what they are looking for.

just a thought

Folseh said:
Yes but my sources (being my own submissions on FA) often have the character name out in the open as those are my characters

Sure <3

The fuck would I want to wade through a bunch of "could be a herm but not really sure" if I search for herm? If you want to say "well, it's better to get too many results than too few", there's an answer for that: Click "posts" at the top. Searching needs to remain in Less Bullshit mode.

Foobaria said:
The fuck would I want to wade through a bunch of "could be a herm but not really sure" if I search for herm? If you want to say "well, it's better to get too many results than too few", there's an answer for that: Click "posts" at the top. Searching needs to remain in Less Bullshit mode.

I unno, herms don't make any sense, neither do cunt boys or dick girls... it's just like, "why make all these extra genders to begin with?!" I was fine when there was two genders.. then a mix of both.. then everyone wanted to have their own special gender.. one with one boob one penis. one with an anus instead of a vagina..

The fuck would anyone even wanna try to identify their characters as these things anyway? I'm just trying to make the search work. and if anyone searching for a herm ONLY wants to see a vagina AND a penis at the same time then they are avoiding a lot of other obvious results..

but I come from a simpler, 2.5 gender time in this retarded fandom.

If per-character tagging were ever implemented, it would be fine, but as it stands, your way of putting up all the terms that might match in some sort of blend would just result in images that have almost every gender tag anyway, and a large number of searches would have a large number of false positives.

Maybe we should make tags just for artists. They would be bright, shiny, with bigger font and displayed above all others, but they won't be used in search.
Artists will have their pictures tagged like they want, and it won't affect search system.

Folseh said:
ok so I take it that its safe to tag my art with my characters name
but their gender are still WYS right?

If the characters in the image actually resemble what said characters usually look like, then yes, you can tag their name. It's always been that way, and nothing's changed in that regard. This change is only in regard to fringe cases, when you can't quite tell if it's said character. Now, if there's enough evidence in the image that it's said character, and an official source (such as your FA submission page) says it's said character, you can tag it as such.

As mentioned before, if you draw a potato and claim that it's fluttershy, you can't tag it fluttershy because there's no evidence within the picture that suggests it IS fluttershy, even if your submission page says it is.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Maybe we should make tags just for artists. They would be bright, shiny, with bigger font and displayed above all others, but they won't be used in search.
Artists will have their pictures tagged like they want, and it won't affect search system.

Only if those artists tags were hidden by default because they don't mean shit when searching an image archive site

Aurali said:
the picture not showing the extra parts? is it because the part's aren't visible or are they just non-existent.. I dunno how well this will take, but if it could be a dick girl or a female herm, and the difference is just the angle of the shot... is there really a problem tagging both?

Yes. If someone simply hates herms, but have nothing against dickgirls (Hey, who am I to judge such person. I have blacklist set to hide all pictures with one particular pony character drawn with horn and wings instead of just horn.) would lose some pictures because of blacklist. It also changes simple objective rule (no pussy - no herm) to more complex subjective rule (could that character have pussy not shown because of angle of the shot, or is it intentional?) which I don't think is good.

Besides while I have seen users who were against old TWYS for characters because it ruins their searches, I haven't seen any other reason for changing gender rules than that artists are mad.

CamKitty said:
Only if those artists tags were hidden by default because they don't mean shit when searching an image archive site

I meant to have this (maybe unclickable) tags on pic page, not search page.
Like here, not here.
And it's not fully serious sugestion. :P

Aeshma said:
Are you like, the Oprah of verbal/text-based hostility?

"And YOU get a fuck-you! And YOU get a fuck-you!"

Everybody gets a fuck-you!

First everyone says there won't be any exceptions to the rules and nothing else will change, but now everyone wants to change shit.

Pyke said:
First everyone says there won't be any exceptions to the rules and nothing else will change, but now everyone wants to change shit.

Wow, imagine that. Color me surprised.

Pyke said:
First everyone says there won't be any exceptions to the rules and nothing else will change, but now everyone wants to change shit.

More the ones that understand the logic of the rule don't like the change but understand the site is extending an olive branch and the others are trying to take this small thing and run with it

Thank you!

Is it possible to have pictures have two sets of tag lists like TWYS tags list and External Derived tags list?

You could do a search on a tag and have a toggle-able option to include or exclude tags obtained from outside sources.

EarthGaurdian said:
Is it possible to have pictures have two sets of tag lists like TWYS tags list and External Derived tags list?

You could do a search on a tag and have a toggle-able option to include or exclude tags obtained from outside sources.

This sounds like a potentially great idea, separating objective & subjective tags

titaniachkt said:
This sounds like a potentially great idea, separating objective & subjective tags

Tis interesting, but wouldn't that lead to a pic labeled ambiguous by TWYS and then male or whatever by the subjective one?

I'm not sure why anyone is opposed to this. In the case of something like gender tagging, that is a situation where disagreements flare over which one of a group of tags is correct, implying the other selections are wrong.

In the case of a character name, this is only extra information which, prior to the rule change, was simply absent. Being able to add a character tag where there was once nothing does not make anyone wrong, and in terms of functionality, gives users an additional option for searching which was previously unavailable to them. There is no expense here, no one is losing anything or being put at a disadvantage by this rule.

The only possible downside I can see is that searching for a character by name may possibly include a few extra results which you for some reason may disagree is actually that character? I guess the example given was MLP characters which are so heavily derived from the source material that only the artist can actually confirm it is indeed that character; if you are really adamant about filtering those few results, you can already do so by including or omitting other tags from your search. That's an option you have, compared to the previously unavailable option of trying to find those specific results. I don't know, it's really such a small difference anyway.

I think that everyone needs to remember that the 'character' itself isn't linked to gender or anything else. Rule 63 and all. If someone does a female version of Link, it's still link; hence why this doesn't need bawwing over and why the character tag doesn't actually gain or lose accuracy over this.

Suineder said:
This amendment has nothing to do with gender tags. Just character names.

Okay

Why not allow genders to be tagged according to the specific outside source? If you have "penis -female" blacklisted and there is an oral pic marked without "female" because you can't see the other character's gender, is it right to leave out the specific tag if the artist specifically states it's either straight (female on male) or not?

Ko-san said:
Why not allow genders to be tagged according to the specific outside source? If you have "penis -female" blacklisted and there is an oral pic marked without "female" because you can't see the other character's gender, is it right to leave out the specific tag if the artist specifically states it's either straight (female on male) or not?

Because there are many cases in which artists claim certain characters are different genders than what they visually appear to be. Since this is an image archive site, tagging should be done objectively based on the visual qualities of the image, and not "polluted" from outside sources.

There are still ways to get around the blacklisting system. In your case, I would recommend blacklisting "gay" and "male solo" separately instead of "penis -female" since that appears to be what you want, right? Double-negative blacklisting is generally a bad idea.

Now if only people would learn to tag gender correctly in the first place. I've got a pet project now of going through 50+ pages of logically impossible tag combinations, like "herm -pussy" and "penis -male -dickgirl -herm". Ironically, I got negative rep because of it, too. Oh well.

Snowmew said:
Now if only people would learn to tag gender correctly in the first place. I've got a pet project now of going through 50+ pages of logically impossible tag combinations, like "herm -pussy" and "penis -male -dickgirl -herm". Ironically, I got negative rep because of it, too. Oh well.

You can get Penis -gender if it's, say, disembodied, so you'd probably need to add a -disembodied_penis.

I think... What people (artists specifically) need to realize when they submit their art here is that they're giving it up to the rules of THIS site, not any other site. He or she can tag it as he or she see fits, but it the collective majority of viewers feels that the tags are wrong, then that artist doesn't really have room to make such a fuss over it. The rules are pretty clear regarding submissions, failure to read and comprehend those rules fall on the artist's shoulders.

Char said:
It simply depends on what the character appears to be. If they look indistinguishable from a male, then you tag it as male.

I don't think some girls (nor some males) will find this very nice, probably this will result in some takedown requests.

Char said:
(which is the only natural result when following TWYS; ...I mean, you're tagging what you SEE, so the tags are saying "looks like ____").

Well, this is why I find the TWYS rule is very problematic.
Let me explain why: what if the ARTIST tags it as s/he made the character? That is how s/he see the character even if this isn't something that "obvious". People tagging it with "correct" gender will probably result in more takedown requests.

If by a side you're trying to respect your users, by the other way you're disrespecting the artist's wishes and I don't think this is something nice. (at least this is what I feel.)

Well, I'll stop my arguing now before I cause unneeded drama. (You can pm me about THIS subject so we can exchange some ideas.)

(Note: I'm not sure if the sentences are correctly structured, so if any question I'll try to rewrite without changing the meaning.)

Kabegami said:
I think... What people (artists specifically) need to realize when they submit they're art here is that they're giving it up to the rules of THIS site, not any other site.

Thing is, most art here isn't uploaded by the artist. Often it's not even uploaded by the commissioner.

NSFW said:
Well, this is why I find the TWYS rule is very problematic.
Let me explain why: what if the ARTIST tags it as s/he made the character? That is how s/he see the character even if this isn't something that "obvious". People tagging it with "correct" gender will probably result in more takedown requests.

If by a side you're trying to respect your users, by the other way you're disrespecting the artist's wishes and I don't think this is something nice. (at least this is what I feel.)

Frankly, artists need to get it through their head that the tags on an image archival site...
1.) are supposed to reflect the image objectively, not whatever the artist wants it to be
2.) don't really matter in the grand scheme of life

If they're so uncomfortable with the idea that if they don't draw any indications of a certain gender it won't be tagged as intended, then, well, tough. e621 isn't designed to be a personal gallery - FA/DA/IB/SF/Weasyl/etc. is for that. Don't like it, then ignore it - as an artist, they'll probably have more important things than what people on some perv site see in their porn drawings. Or, if you like, tarnish your image by applying for a spot on the DNP list. Better yet, get in a flamewar in the comments. Ultimately, it prevents more arguments than it causes, since you don't have to reference potentially ambiguous character descriptions from the source. (For example, FA only allows a single gender or "multiple characters".)

Snowmew said:
Because there are many cases in which artists claim certain characters are different genders than what they visually appear to be. Since this is an image archive site, tagging should be done objectively based on the visual qualities of the image, and not "polluted" from outside sources.

There are still ways to get around the blacklisting system. In your case, I would recommend blacklisting "gay" and "male solo" separately instead of "penis -female" since that appears to be what you want, right? Double-negative blacklisting is generally a bad idea.

Now if only people would learn to tag gender correctly in the first place. I've got a pet project now of going through 50+ pages of logically impossible tag combinations, like "herm -pussy" and "penis -male -dickgirl -herm". Ironically, I got negative rep because of it, too. Oh well.

I actually have a herm - pussy page open all the time in my browser.
I check it a few times a day since it's an incredibly common mis-tag.
I usually end up correcting at least 2-3 a day, sometimes a lot more.

Edit: Just looked at your -rep, my suggestion to you, just stay out of comments.
The most I ever do in a comment is 1 comment explaining my stance.
If there's further argument, just report a comment in the argument and politely request a moderator come and make a judgement either way.

Hammie said:
I actually have a herm - pussy page open all the time in my browser.
I check it a few times a day since it's an incredibly common mis-tag.
I usually end up correcting at least 2-3 a day, sometimes a lot more.

I hit the member tag edit limit a few times actually. So often that I stopped bothering a few days ago... now I just check recent uploads and usually tag 4-5 untagged females a day, since I have it blacklisted.

Ironically there are a select few users who I've asked repeatedly to tag gender (which was the reason for my negative rep apparently) and they continue to upload with minimal or no tags to this day.

Yeah, don't repeat yourself.
Just tell people once for information purposes, if they don't stop report it.
Then you're not moderating, you're just making sure they know before telling a moderator.

Snowmew said:
Because there are many cases in which artists claim certain characters are different genders than what they visually appear to be. Since this is an image archive site, tagging should be done objectively based on the visual qualities of the image, and not "polluted" from outside sources.

There are still ways to get around the blacklisting system. In your case, I would recommend blacklisting "gay" and "male solo" separately instead of "penis -female" since that appears to be what you want, right? Double-negative blacklisting is generally a bad idea.

Now if only people would learn to tag gender correctly in the first place. I've got a pet project now of going through 50+ pages of logically impossible tag combinations, like "herm -pussy" and "penis -male -dickgirl -herm". Ironically, I got negative rep because of it, too. Oh well.

I tried that combination. It didn't work. What I don't want is penis, disembodied or not, without a woman present. Personally, I'd like the woman alone, but there are some good pics with a woman performing fellatio or something similar. If you tag "penis" at all and the only genders present are "male" then it jumps into my blacklist even if it is actually straight. Here are my combinations (yes herm is on there twice).

herm, herm, gay, dickgirl, penis solo -female, penis presenting male -female, penis -female, butt -female, pegging

Hammie said:
Yeah, don't repeat yourself.
Just tell people once for information purposes, if they don't stop report it.
Then you're not moderating, you're just making sure they know before telling a moderator.

Tried reporting people. The response is just "well it's fixed so whatever" because I already retagged their past 50 uploads. No action taken.

Ko-san said:
I tried that combination. It didn't work.

How didn't it work?

Ko-san said:
What I don't want is penis, disembodied or not, without a woman present. Personally, I'd like the woman alone, but there are some good pics with a woman performing fellatio or something similar. If you tag "penis" at all and the only genders present are "male" then it jumps into my blacklist even if it is actually straight.

If it's not fully gender tagged, then the blacklist won't work anyway. That's not really something you can work around.

What about ["gay", "male solo", "intersex solo"] so you end up with only "female solo" and "straight"? Or, instead of "gay", "-straight -solo"?

Ultimately it depends on whether you want to get one of three things:
1.) false positives
2.) false negatives
3.) glasses after you have to stare at your screen for years retagging everything

Thank you so much for this! <3

Now when I search for images with a certain character in them, (hopefully) all of them should show up.

So due to this new rule, a character can get tagged from an outside source.

Does this mean that images like this :http://e621.net/post/show/320972/2012-balloons-blonde_hair-breasts-cake-equine-fema

still get tagged with MLP and FIM?

If this character was Princess Celestia according to the artist, would that mean the implications of MLP and FIM have to be removed? (I think the main characters have implications programmed in.)

I know characters get tagged, but what about the implication tags?

_Waffles_ said:
So due to this new rule, a character can get tagged from an outside source.

Does this mean that images like this :http://e621.net/post/show/320972/2012-balloons-blonde_hair-breasts-cake-equine-fema

still get tagged with MLP and FIM?

If this character was Princess Celestia according to the artist, would that mean the implications of MLP and FIM have to be removed? (I think the main characters have implications programmed in.)

I know characters get tagged, but what about the implication tags?

Surprise is not a character from 4 generation. She doesn't get a fim tag. Besides that I don't see a problem with this implications since copyrights tag are rather similar issue to character tags. And I want to be able to search for pic containing any of 4 generation characters with fim not fim ~twilight_sparkle ~pinkie_pie ...

Snowmew said:
Thing is, most art here isn't uploaded by the artist. Often it's not even uploaded by the commissioner.

And do you notice this makes everything be even worse...?

Snowmew said:
Frankly, artists need to get it through their head that the tags on an image archival site... (till the end)

I don't remember but I guess I said something about respecting the artists and their wishes, you know, they made what you're looking at. (and I don't mean the forum, lol)
Something I can't understand is why not be nice to the people who create the stuff you're enjoying.
If they get mad, probably they will ask to be included on avoid_posting list. And everyone loses, including the whole site itself.

One more thing, stop trying to make me cause drama. :|

_Waffles_ said:
http://e621.net/post/show/320972/2012-balloons-blonde_hair-breasts-cake-equine-fema[/quote]
"equine"... no, seriously?
This will be a loooooooong day...

NSFW said:
"equine"... no, seriously?
This will be a loooooooong day...

The OP mistagged this, neither pegasus nor equine tags are warranted.

NSFW said:
I don't remember but I guess I said something about respecting the artists and their wishes, you know, they made what you're looking at. (and I don't mean the forum, lol)
Something I can't understand is why not be nice to the people who create the stuff you're enjoying.
If they get mad, probably they will ask to be included on avoid_posting list. And everyone loses, including the whole site itself.

I think this problem simply stems from the different direction this site takes to the artwork instead of FA, DA, IB, you name them.
This site focuses on the user, the person looking at things, not on the creator.
The creator wishes (and rightfully at that) that his art is to be seen as he intended it, while e621 tries to cater to the viewer by providing a search system tailored to what is visible in the picture without previous knowledge, while the artist himself might want to put something in more context than just what is directly visible.

I believe this difference is the main problem here.

NSFW said:
And do you notice this makes everything be even worse...?

If only the artist or commissioner were allowed to upload art here, the site would have about 3000 images.

NSFW said:
I don't remember but I guess I said something about respecting the artists and their wishes, you know, they made what you're looking at.

Artists' wishes should be respected when they're not asinine and egotistical. Everyone on this planet needs to learn when to control and when to let go: When it matters to your life, control, and all others should respect you; When it matters for jack-shit except your ego, get the fuck over it and nobody should even need to ask you.

NSFW said:

If they get mad, probably they will ask to be included on avoid_posting list. And everyone loses, including the whole site itself.

Let it be known this is the ONLY reason any gap in the rule was made.

CamKitty said:
Let it be known this is the ONLY reason any gap in the rule was made.

Half the takedown requests I see are for art that's pretty shitty to begin with, and the amount of artists on the DNP is a drop in the bucket compared to how many artists there are out there. For every artist who seems to have the fuse on their tampon lit, there are 5 artists who don't care where their art is posted and don't act like autistic twunts about it.

Digital_Kindness said:
Half the takedown requests I see are for art that's pretty shitty to begin with, and the amount of artists on the DNP is a drop in the bucket compared to how many artists there are out there. For every artist who seems to have the fuse on their tampon lit, there are 5 artists who don't care where their art is posted and don't act like autistic twunts about it.

You still catch more flies with honey then vinegar and at the end of the day the site is a business.

I don't like the change either but if this minor change can stop some people (who don't get the rules) from leaving, then whatever.

Especially since this change is ONLY name, so nothing too wacky will change for tags

As long as no wacky implications are tied to any names, that is.

That's basically the biggest catch to worry about. Although I think it has been said that common sense still applies first. Like if you draw a man, it's not Fluttershy even if the source says so

Digital_Kindness said:
Wow, imagine that. Color me surprised.

Digital_Kindness said:
Half the takedown requests I see are for art that's pretty shitty to begin with, and the amount of artists on the DNP is a drop in the bucket compared to how many artists there are out there. For every artist who seems to have the fuse on their tampon lit, there are 5 artists who don't care where their art is posted and don't act like autistic twunts about it.

You are a very unhappy man.

Aurali said:
You are a very unhappy man.

Actually, I was quite happy when I saw people start to pipe up about wanting to continue changing the tagging rules to include source info when tagging genders. It shows me that I'm right.

Digital_Kindness said:
Actually, I was quite happy when I saw people start to pipe up about wanting to continue changing the tagging rules to include source info when tagging genders. It shows me that I'm right.

I meant in general. and yes, we know people will attack any ground we give them.. Some people. you Can't please.

I'm talking to one :3

But no.. the news announcement probably got ALL the gender fighters out of their tag wars just to comment about pushing the change.. and everyone else just didn't give two fucks

I guarantee you haven't heard the last of people saying 'well if we're going to allow outside info on character tags, we should do it on sex too' for a good long while (beyond what we normally hear, that is).

Digital_Kindness said:
I guarantee you haven't heard the last of people saying 'well if we're going to allow outside info on character tags, we should do it on sex too' for a good long while (beyond what we normally hear, that is).

I didn't disagree with you when you said it the first time either. I knew what would happen, and that's why I said ahead of time that it wouldn't matter, as we're not going to budge on gender tagging or anything else really.

Char said:
I didn't disagree with you when you said it the first time either. I knew what would happen, and that's why I said ahead of time that it wouldn't matter, as we're not going to budge on gender tagging or anything else really.

So, that ridiculous post Aurali did WASN'T serious?

Char said:
I didn't disagree with you when you said it the first time either. I knew what would happen, and that's why I said ahead of time that it wouldn't matter, as we're not going to budge on gender tagging or anything else really.

Yeah, but how many times did you guys say that before about TWYS in general? You perceived part of it as a problem because it was causing drama, so you changed it. You can't honestly say that in the future you won't consider doing that for another part of the rule as well, should that continue to cause undue problems for the administration. Or rather, you can, but after seeing this change I wouldn't be inclined to believe you much.

Renard_Queenston said:
So, that ridiculous post Aurali did WASN'T serious?

That was totally srsly.

Srsly.

Renard_Queenston said:
So, that ridiculous post Aurali did WASN'T serious?

No it wasn't serious.

Digital_Kindness said:
Yeah, but how many times did you guys say that before about TWYS in general? You perceived part of it as a problem because it was causing drama, so you changed it. You can't honestly say that in the future you won't consider doing that for another part of the rule as well, should that continue to cause undue problems for the administration. Or rather, you can, but after seeing this change I wouldn't be inclined to believe you much.

The rule was changed because there were enough people on the site expecting character tags to reflect intended characters rather than just characters you could definitely tell were in the post. That, and because the issue is only whether a certain tag is added to an image or not, rather than a replacement of one tag with another (except for very few cases of very similar characters). The resulting solution that was implemented should still have minimal effect on the browsing experience of anyone not in support of the change too. Just that if you search for something like "rainbow_dash", you'll end up with the pics you expected, plus a few where it's not completely possible to tell that it's Rainbow Dash, but you can see why people would think it is. That, and if you've blacklisted "rainbow_dash", you'll miss out on a few pictures that you probably didn't want to see anyways given how closely they would have resembled Rainbow Dash.

That's a far cry from something like searching for "herm" and getting a mix of herms and what appear to be dickgirls in your search results, especially if you specifically don't want to see dickgirls. THAT does completely defeat the point of TWYS on e621, which is why that won't be changed. I'm not saying we might not have to try to find some other solution later on, but it won't be an exception to TWYS.

2 sets of tags and a toggle in account options.
1 set for TWYS, 1 set for whatever the artist/commissioner wants.

Hammie said:
2 sets of tags and a toggle in account options.
1 set for TWYS, 1 set for whatever the artist/commissioner wants.

Or bitchfit artists can just put a giant thing on the image that says "WARNING WARNING WARNING THIS CHARACTER IS A HERM EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN'T SEE THEIR VAGINA THANK YOU"

Hammie said:
2 sets of tags and a toggle in account options.
1 set for TWYS, 1 set for whatever the artist/commissioner wants.

That would probably be detrimental to tagging quality overall. One of those sets is probably going to be neglected by most of the users.

Snowy said:
That would probably be detrimental to tagging quality overall. One of those sets is probably going to be neglected by most of the users.

I don't expect anyone to actually use the artist tags, but it would stop the complaints.
Also, half-serious suggestion in the first place.

Three times now I've had people respond to "TWYS" with this forum post claiming that it allows all tags to be based on the source/artist.

Thanks guys. This is going to be a rough next couple of days.

Snowmew said:
Three times now I've had people respond to "TWYS" with this forum post claiming that it allows all tags to be based on the source/artist.

Thanks guys. This is going to be a rough next couple of days.

This new change just allows the use of external sources for the character name.

Xch3l said:
This new change just allows the use of external sources for the character name.

I know that. They don't.

That was the point of my frustration.

Seems like a good change to the naming policy.

As for gender tagging, I personally think if there are going to be gender tags, it's absurd to ignore artist's intent in ambiguous cases. I respect that others disagree.

The issue of whether to consult outside sources to tag images with ambiguous-gender characters comes down to personal opinion, and will likely never be resolved. The dispute causes so much drama that I suggest we delete the gender tags (male, female, androgenous, herm, dickgirl, cuntboy, etc.) entirely and only tag visible anatomical characteristics (breasts, penis, pussy, etc.)

Tag what you see. You can't see gender.

Tagging purely by genetalia would work only if there were per-character tags. With the tags mish-mashed like they are now, it'd be useless.

Pertaining to known characters and gender tagging, I still think the TWYS rule is a joke. "This very same character is intersex in this picture, but totally a female in that one. Because you can not see the penis at this particular moment, it does not exist."

MintyFur said:
I suggest we delete the gender tags (male, female, androgenous, herm, dickgirl, cuntboy, etc.) entirely and only tag visible anatomical characteristics (breasts, penis, pussy, etc.)

I was almost going to suggest this as well.
You beat me to it!

Nartan said:
I was almost going to suggest this as well.
You beat me to it!

I could get on board with that as well. A good example would be the fact that filtering/searching by gender often doesn't work due to the numerous possibilities and combinations.

terminal_mango said:
Pertaining to known characters and gender tagging, I still think the TWYS rule is a joke. "This very same character is intersex in this picture, but totally a female in that one. Because you can not see the penis at this particular moment, it does not exist."

Once more, the point of this site is for searching, and the majority of people search for individual images, not comics. Unless they are interested and click through to the rest of the comic, they give not two shits what are on other pages: They want their search results.