EYESTRAIN WARNING - TL;DR.
SMARTPHONE WARNING - Paragraphs will appear longer.

Okay... What I mean is this -- e621 used to be a much more free, much more open and friendly and relaxed place, but in recent times there seems to be a pretty big push to turn this once awesome website / community into the equivalent of one of those college campus "safe spaces."

Back in the older times, like early 2000s to the early 10s, it wasn't at all like that, at least not in my memory.

You (the mods) can say all you like that you yourselves ~aren't~ SJWs, or don't ~personally~ subscribe to SJW beliefs, but when you directly cater to that demographic, you pretty much are complicit...

The "cuntboy / dickgirl" (Slur tags) thread - that's an example right there... https://e621.net/forum/show/195804?page=8

I PM'd people on Inkbunny who have "cuntboy" or "dickgirl" characters (or artists who have drawn them) to ask their opinion on that thread, and most of the ones I asked for input said the whole thing, the push for censorship and the thread, is silly and overblown... back on IB, you can actually ask about this stuff and not have people come at you immediately being pissed off at you because you said something.

But here... attempts to illuminate ironies, or create comedic parallels were instantly interpreted as "belittling" ~ I dunno how many people are aware of this, but simply making jokes about a topic isn't "belittling." Pointing out how "If X should get to make demands and make the site change according to those demands, then Y should also get to do that" is not belittling. And also, making a comedic response is by no means a "personal attack" unless you outright go at people directly and say "sew & sew is a dookie fayce poopie hed & they R sew dumb they eat rocks on teh playground & call it candy, lol."

Other people in that thread also expressed their opinions, and when those opinions ~didn't~ align with the narrative - the commenters either were or ignored in preference to people who matched the narrative, or made to feel like they were douchebags for not agreeing with it. This is appeal to emotion. (should I even say douchebag, since that's a slur and it's offensive? I mean, it takes a womens' hygiene product and turns it into a slur, same as "pussy" takes female anatomy and slur-ifies it.)

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Emotional_appeal

People who make jokes or disagree with certain narratives aren't allowed to be themselves and this kinda makes e621 seem like an intolerant place when it comes to different viewpoints. It's almost like that whole Triggly Puff ordeal, a couple people make some comments that go against the grain and the rest of the commenters, the "triggered" folks, shake violently whilest screaming "TAKE YOUR HATE SPEECH OFFA DISS CAMPUS!" Yes, they don't outright say that in those exact words, but the reaction is pretty similar. The instant go-to is to deflate the other person or quote them out of context and make them look like a jerk and act like they never had any point to make with what they said. That wasn't done to >just< me either...

Then I go around and observe other threads to see what other kind of stuff is happening at good ole e621 ~ https://e621.net/forum/show/198227

This person got themselves the dreaded "neutral mark" for a single comment on an image, a comment they made to express their being pleased by an image designed to illicit sexual arousal, something which ~used to be~ very common and accepted here back in the good ole days... "I could fap to that Duke butt all day." -- this person was understandably confused as to ~why~ they'd received a strike for something that other people do, and have done since back in ye olde olden days of e6.

I guess nowadays, saying "this character / drawing is quite sexy, I strongly approve of your creation" is analogous to saying "I want to find out where you live and penetrate you with a dozen Bad Dragon dicks." - perhaps it is due to the fact many furries are behaving more like otherkins; unable to separate themselves from their characters, so a comment made about a fantasy drawing = a comment made directly at the IRL them... - it would be like the voice actors for characters like Buster Bunny or Yako Warner thinking that an expression of sexual attraction to the characters they portrayed in a cartoon is an expression of sexual attraction to >them< as people...

Sure, maybe it does ick the V.A.s out to know that people fap to the characters they lent voices to, but they've no control over it... fappers gon' fap.

Annnyway... The mods condescended this "Scakk" person as if they were teachers and the user was a student in their classroom. "Now Billy, just because Jimmy and Timmy brought gum to class doesn't mean you should do it too, if everyone else was jumping off a cliff, would you jump too?" -- "Scakk" just came here to do what other users come here to do; fap and have fun - not have to reshape themselves and their entire thought process and language to fit with the PC "everything is offensive" hivemind.

Listen... I get that you are "trying to make a better place for the artists by catering to their wants" but is it necessary to alienate common users at the expense of that goal? And what else will be changed as a result of this desire to cater and offense-proof this website and its content? Should every image that could possibly upset someone be blanked out in the thumbnail and replaced with a "trigger warning?" Should cub artworks be completely removed from e621 to appease those who believe that drawn pictures are the same as actual hyooman CP? Should images that reinforce the patriarchy through depicting hetero-normative "male + female" relationships also be removed or quarantined behind a "trigger wall?"

Should pictures where one character is a "bully" and using demeaning terms like "faggot" on the submissive also have trigger warnings? Oob's stuff has lots of "bullying" themes, but I don't get my knickers in a twist enough to demand Oob's art be changed or censored or something. It's Oob's art, they can draw whatever they feel like and write whatever dialogue to it they want to - but maybe some other artist looks at that and thinks "Ewww... this e621 place normalizes violence and homophobic aggression."

https://static1.e621.net/data/e5/e3/e5e30bb076e689969fc1ff384611a6aa.png

Oh noes, he's gunna beat that other guy up! Look how he has his fist raised! As the child of dysfunctional, bipolar parents who regularly got into physical confrontations, I find this imagery to be triggering!! (I was... but I don't, I take the image for what it is).

Here we have another!

https://static1.e621.net/data/7e/55/7e55af9858d798e38fa2953650c64ba2.jpg

Closet coon... CLAAAAASSIC furry comic from the golden era, but what's this? Did he say "queer?" that's offensive! Viewers don't care if it's "just part of the dialogue," that degrading language needs to be tagged and put behind the "trigger wall" in case it might upset somebody!

And what about that Red Rusker comic with Sea Salt, where Kyle drags him off to some warehouse or whatever to get gang-banged, and I am pretty sure gay-degrading slurs were used in at least ~some~ part of the dialogue, and oooooh, what's this in the comment section for that comic? Did somebody make an AIDS joke? Comment was made 4 years ago, before the great SJW-ing, so I guess it gets to slide without punishment. Wow, the AIDS joke comment even has +6 upvotes, so I guess >some< users actually found it humorous.

https://e621.net/post/show/207417

And how many comments get made on incest pictures where users comment something to the effect of "I wish that was how it was for me" - or "me and my [insert relative] used to do that... :)"

Or how many comments get made on a cub image where users wax nostalgic about their younger years and their sexual exploits?

Hm? - https://e621.net/post/show/885705/2016-age_difference-anthro-beach-brother-brother_a

"Creepy" comments ahoy, weigh anchor!

5 or more years ago, nobody even batted an eye at such commentary.

Hudson:
"Some artists/commissioners/character owners dislike the way users talk about their characters, especially in the way of "I would love to [sexual act] with [character]." Some of them don't want those sort of things said on their art and want it removed. This is why creepy comments can cost the site art. The other reason would be that quite a deal of other users do not enjoy reading creepy comments either."

What is the point of creating works of art if you >don't< want people to enjoy them??? That would be like a musician making a song and then they get a bunch of comments on Youtube from people saying how much they ~like~ the song and the musicians who made it are like "Ugh, gtfo, stop objectifying my art you shitlords!" You don't want people to comment about how much your image sexually arouses them? Ohhhh-kaaaaaay... Neat. How about maybe not make porn and maybe stick to just doing clean art... but even then, chances are someone will fap to the clean art too. Hell, what do you think most furries were doing during cartoons; fapping to Bugs Bunny probably. Yeah Bugs, wave dat bunny tail. Oh hey, what about when Sega got super upset because people were drawing so much Sonic-verse porn. "Stop objectifying our characters, damn furries!"

And what track does this particular train of thought go down? Am I "victim shaming" by saying that by drawing pornography, they are "asking for it?" (the "it" being - people getting sexually aroused by the images). How many different ways can such things be spun into a conveniently exploitable manufactured outrage? Offense is subjective, obscenity is subjective... what one person might think is a "creepy comment" another person might see as just innocuous banter.

Slurs are also subjective and also very plastic, as language itself is plastic. What might be "offensive" in one time period may be innocuous in another time period. "Gay" used to be offensive, and then later on it was reclaimed and made into a harmless term, its power taken away - all "slurs" should go through this process as the comedian Lenny Bruce prescribed, for it is suppression of the word which gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness.

But no, the culture of perpetual victimhood says "You >need< to hold on to these things and keep letting them get you upset because being upset is power, and the more power you have, the more you can use it to command other people around you."

You can call a user with a dissenting opinion "childish" and "entitled," you can call their adulthood into question for making jokes and throwing in their own views - but to do that and also ~NOT~ realize the childishness of other users' reactions and the entitlement of "this needs to be changed or I can't use the website" is an extreme point of irony. You prove that dissenting opinions aren't welcome when you use "the last person who said something like that got banned" as a thinly veiled threat to coerce people to stay in line.

Furrin_Gok:
"Careful, friend, you're travelling down the road Flammie was."

Slyroon:
"Cuntboy and dickgirl are vulgar words. But currently these are a widely integrated in porn-lingo. Just like words like slut, bitch, faggot, sissy etc. Which used outside in "the real world" would offend people. It's all about the context and situation.

Hey there, Sly. I couldn't help noticin' that yer disagreein' with the established narrative. That's gunna lead you into some trouble, pal. Yew betta nawt dew dats. Yooze is travelin' down a dangerous road ifs yewz catches my drift. **wink-wink**
.
.
If person X gets to play the "that offends me, you have to change it" game... then so does everyone else. Open the flood gates and let everyone, and I mean >everyone< dictate the operation and handling of the website based on what they personally find offensive or would like to see changed.

Then what do you get? You get "Feral is an offensive term, it implies the character is dumb or beastly, why do anthros get such a good representation and perception, just because they're sentient? That's soooo ableist."

Or you get silly stuff like TruckNutz obvious joke suggestion that an "offensive term" like redneck be changed to "caucasian southerner." The OP of the "Slur tags" thread either didn't recognize that Trucky was being facetious and deliberately comedic, or they didn't care that it was meant as a joke and treated the suggestion as legit in order to try to lure him into the fold with rewards, which is itself - condescending.

As much as I want the old, fun, care-free e621 of old to come back, that is probably never going to happen. Ultimately, it is your website and you folks will run it however you want regardless of what anybody says... cater and placate whoever you so choose. Alienate and chastise whoever you wish. Block or neg people for whatever you feel like (as I already know you will do after I've finished posting this thread).

But do try to at least once in a blue moon, consider the effect it will have on e621 in the long run and the perception people outside of the website will have of this place... Tumblr already has a bad rep, does e621 really need to become the furry side of Tumblr? Most of the other furry image websites are not like this ~ if you push people away with the "safe space" stuff, the "language policing" stuff and "expression of arousal policing" stuff ~ the part of the userbase that >doesn't< want to conform to the PC mindframe will eventually leave for more open, less restrictive "greener pastures" - just as I had once abandoned Fchan to come >here< ...

Remember Fchan? It went through its own little period of upheaval. Certain ideas came in, certain mods came in and completely changed the whole landscape of that community from what it was into a place that just flat out stopped being fun to participate in. Relaxed environments are >fun< ... environments where people can make jokes and goof off are >fun< ... nobody wants to have to walk on eggshells on the internetz, whether it's on a furry porn website (sorry, interactive anthropomorphic image community) or any place else, really. And that is essentially what this place is becoming - eggshell central. Watch your step, you might offend someone and if you offend someone, prepare to be punished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYd5cRlROE
"Ain't No Rest For The Triggered"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iqKjPDGWE
Customer: I just wanted to return this sweater...
SJW Cashier: RAAAAAAAAAPE!
.
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G'bye, y'all. Going back to my "vacation"

(ie: still being able to view the porn, just not being able to comment or engage in the forums - perhaps one day they'll create a way to totally block IPs from even looking at images on the website).

"i'm not allowed to be a complete asswipe 100% of the time anymore, wah"

null0010 said:
"I read one sentence of your post which I selected to react to out of everything you wrote, in order to set the narrative that you are a dickwad with no message or point and ignored everything else, because this is how discussions go now."

Ya know, compared to my "other posts" on that other thread, I thought I was being downright polite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iqKjPDGWE

no, i read your entire post, that's what it boils down to

Not sure what side of the fence you're on or what point you shooting for. <~>

null0010 said:
"i'm not allowed to be a complete asswipe 100% of the time anymore, wah"

How do you get the impression I am a total asswipe 100 percent of the time... I have made other posts in these forums, about non-political subjects -- music, comedy shows, blabbity blah - and I generally maintain a pleasant demeanor in those threads. It's the subject of political correctness, unbalanced and selective application of the moderation of comment activity, the slippery slope-ness of "this offends me, ban it or change it" that gets my gears grinding... anything else, I'm usually pretty nice. You do not know me and I do not know you, so we can't really make completely accurate judgements / assessments of one another.

Impkitty said:
Not sure what side of the fence you're on or what point you shooting for. <~>

Here's a thought, ImpKitty - do you >like< the idea that, if you were to make a comment on an incest related picture, say something to the effect of "I sure wish I was [insert character] in this picture..." your comment would be construed as "creepy" and possibly get you banned from using e621? Let that sink in -- an arbitrary, innocuous, no harm intended comment -- would get you banned...

Read the post, Imp. There's more to dissect than just "this guy wants free reign to be an asshole to people and hurt people's feelings."

I am not actively going out of my way to piss people off... I just long for the days gone past, when e621 was free and non-restrictive.

oh ok so the main takeaway is that you're angry that people who have

like

no bearing on your life at all

get upset at things you don't get upset at

are we like supposed to care or something because i can do a good impression of someone who cares

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
Oh, ok... so the main takeaway is that you're angry that people who have, like, no bearing on your life at all, get upset at things you don't get upset at...

You're right, Renard, it's just a furry porn website which will dictate itself however it pleases and in the scope of life outside of the internetz, it really has no relation to or effect on me - thank you Renard, I have seen the light. I'll go do something constructive now, sorry I bothered you.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
You're right, Renard, it's just a furry porn website which will dictate itself however it pleases and in the scope of life outside of the internetz, it really has no relation to or effect on me - thank you Renard, I have seen the light. I'll go do something constructive now, sorry I bothered you.

nice cool i was an influence on someone's life for the first time in 999 years

In all seriousness, I can sympathise with what you're saying. Yes, people on this site may be getting a bit too sensitive to, say, jokes or just perceived 'creepy comments' but personally I suggest you ignore it. Since it's not going to change, as you said, you might as well just roll with it and metaphorically plug your ears.

I mean it's what I do when I see or hear people getting upset over trivial shit but if you don't want to then I don't think I really have much to say about this topic

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Let that sink in -- an arbitrary, innocuous, no harm intended comment -- would get you banned...

But it wouldn't. At the worst, it'd get a neutral initially.

This is the very definition of 'Mountains out of Molehills.'

Let's get this straight: You don't want the administration team to ensure that the forum can have a single, serious discussion without someone coming in and using crude humor instead of presenting their arguments in a constructive manner? You also don't want the administration to enforce a set of rules (that was voted in by the community) in the way the community would like to have it enforced? You also don't want the administration to explain other users how the rules are being enforced when queried to do so?

I'm not even going to delve into the entire spectrum of irony you displayed by being against infantilizing the opposition, while infantilizing the administration on four separate occasions in your first post.

However, just to make this exceedingly clear. You were banned for your posts in the thread because your style of humor wasn't a constructive argumentation. You decided that, instead presenting your arguments rationally, you should go ahead and try to use crude humor. If you had simply made your point in a way that wouldn't have had the chance to incur as much drama as thinly veiled sarcasm tends to do you wouldn't have been banned at all.
Or in other words: Bring a constructive and rational argumentation and we will encourage you to tear the opposition a new one; bring thinly veiled sarcasm, crude humor, or start to outright belittle the others by treating them like infants and we will remove you from the discussion.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Okay... What I mean is this -- e621 used to be a much more free, much more open and friendly and relaxed place, but in recent times there seems to be a pretty big push to turn this once awesome website / community into the equivalent of one of those college campus "safe spaces."

Back in the older times, like early 2000s to the early 10s, it wasn't at all like that, at least not in my memory.

Your appeal to seniority as a member of this community would work better if you would at least get the years correctly; e621 opened it's page to the public in 2007, so around 5 years later than the supposed "early 2000s" you witnessed.

It's interesting how you link to a thread which, for the most part, has *not* been catering to the SJW crowd the way you claim that it has been.

It's also interesting how your posts, which are way too obvious in the trollolo'ing department, exhibit the same kind of asinine behavior that you've made a brand new thread to complain about in (also, why don't you link to the first page, and not the 8th one, so people can read through the entirety of the thread and see your attitude throughout the thread for what it really is?).

InannaEloah said:
It's interesting how you link to a thread which, for the most part, has *not* been catering to the SJW crowd the way you claim that it has been.

...also, why don't you link to the first page, and not the 8th one, so people can read through the entirety of the thread and see your attitude throughout the thread for what it really is?).

Trololo-ing... Hmm. Okay, I guess on the inernetz, I easily appear to be an example of Poe's Law, but I did and do have a point and I am not merely just "fucking around for lulz." The general environment of e621 has changed rather drastically from what it had been before... it was a kinder, gentler, more care-free era.

Also, the reason I didn't link the first page of the topic is because I did not start commenting >until< page 7, 8, etc.

And even back on the 7th page when I first began to chime in, my statements were not direct attacks or direct insults. ~~ https://e621.net/forum/show/195804?page=7

Anyway, I should take Renard's advice and just not care and just use this place for its intended purpose of accessing pornography, the classic "shut up and fap" argument.

"so around 5 years later than the supposed "early 2000s" you witnessed."

Then perhaps it is possible I am mixing Fchan memories and e621 memories in my head.

Either way, the point still stands that the general attitude and emotional landscape of the website has shifted. If you go back to older comments - the attitude was much more relaxed, less focused on jumping down people's throats for every little thing...

"supposed "early 2000s" you witnessed." ~ Is this in reference to the website, the fandom, or chronological time in general? ~ Remember Furcadia? Remember Yahoo Groups? Remember when 2 The Ranting Gryphon actually had funny rants with relevant subject matter? Remember renting Nintendo games at the local video shop? Remember sitting down with a bowl of cereal to watch Saturday Morning cartoons like Captain N' The Game Master? Remember televisions that used Cathode Ray tubes instead of LCD or LED?

I certainly do appreciate your calling my furry fandom age (or age in general) into question... kinda reminds me of the catty attitudes of the Japanese Rock fandom back on LJ, lol.

Anyway, whatever, it's y'alls website... and I can't expect people to actually zero in on any of my points when it's mired in my style of wordy word-fag talk and joke-speak. My inability to write about a subject in concise terms and without the color of humor is a hurdle I am well aware of... I'm like Daria (remember that show?) my cynicism button is broken and I can't turn it off.

Fucking safe spaces. I quit on humanity a long time ago. Nobody's got a spine anymore.

Ugh, Trucky, liek, stahp belittling pplz. Ur guna triggr sum1.

(the deliberate shorthand smartphone speak is supposed to denote sarcasm) <3

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Ugh, Trucky, liek, stahp belittling pplz. Ur guna triggr sum1.

<3

At this point I don't even care. All I wanna see is as much of this world burnt to a crisp as possible

TruckNutz said:
At this point I don't even care. All I wanna see is as much of this world burnt to a crisp as possible

Meh... I don't think humanity is completely devoid of all value, I just think we allow ourselves to get wrapped up in a lot of hypocrisy and focusing on petty, insignificant matters. People living in other countries where things are way-way-way more shitty would >love< to only have stuff like "micro-aggressions" to worry about.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Ugh, Trucky, liek, stahp belittling pplz. Ur guna triggr sum1.

(the deliberate shorthand smartphone speak is supposed to denote sarcasm) <3

tbh, I'm thinking of abandoning the fandom one day. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I've got better things in life than to listen to college liberals bitching about stupid shit. And besides, those types of people stay the hell away from the area where I live anyway, since we're all a bunch of "rednecks" with rebel flags here. I like it that way.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
"so around 5 years later than the supposed "early 2000s" you witnessed."

Then perhaps it is possible I am mixing Fchan memories and e621 memories in my head.

Either way, the point still stands that the general attitude and emotional landscape of the website has shifted. If you go back to older comments - the attitude was much more relaxed, less focused on jumping down people's throats for every little thing...

"supposed "early 2000s" you witnessed." ~ Is this in reference to the website, the fandom, or chronological time in general? ~ Remember Furcadia? Remember Yahoo Groups? Remember when 2 The Ranting Gryphon actually had funny rants with relevant subject matter? Remember renting Nintendo games at the local video shop? Remember sitting down with a bowl of cereal to watch Saturday Morning cartoons like Captain N' The Game Master? Remember televisions that used Cathode Ray tubes instead of LCD or LED?

I certainly do appreciate your calling my furry fandom age (or age in general) into question... kinda reminds me of the catty attitudes of the Japanese Rock fandom back on LJ, lol.

Well, considering that the point of this debate is e621 it stands to reason I am only talking about things that matter to e621. For all I care you could be a hundred years old and it'd still be impossible for you to have witnessed the e621 community in the early 2000s. Never mind that your account isn't even a single year old, and if that's the only one you have then your entire experience is from lurking, which gives a rather bad view on the inner workings of a community.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Anyway, whatever, it's y'alls website... and I can't expect people to actually zero in on any of my points when it's mired in my style of wordy word-fag talk and joke-speak. My inability to write about a subject in concise terms and without the color of humor is a hurdle I am well aware of... I'm like Daria (remember that show?) my cynicism button is broken and I can't turn it off.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
Ugh, Trucky, liek, stahp belittling pplz. Ur guna triggr sum1.

Because you don't give us a single reason to take you serious. If you don't care about making some actual arguments without devolving into meme-speak, linking youtube videos, or crude humor why should we make the effort to debate you in a serious way?
You have shown multiple times that any attempt to debate you just results in you making more pointless jokes, as such any shown effort is wasted.

TruckNutz said:
tbh, I'm thinking of abandoning the fandom one day.

It's not the fandom, Trucky, it's the millennial generation and being perpetually coddled and the programming that has taught them that being offended is a good thing, being able to claim victim status or the "right" placement on the "privilege scale" is a good thing. Contrary to what many trolls believe, you can be a furry and still be a sane and rational person without skin so thin it can only be measured in microns. It takes practice - like developing callouses so that you don't feel it as much when you get burned cooking.

Don't start hating what >you< like just because of >other< people... that would be dumb and letting them win.
.
.

NotMeNotYou said:
Never mind that your account isn't even a single year old...

You base my awareness of this website on >an< account... interesting. Lurking doesn't provide a good view of the inner workings of the website... Interesting.

You... read the post, right? I think I have a fairly good grasp of what the environment here is nowadays. But hey, stuff changes, leadership changes, userbase changes -- I totally get it, and I just have to deal. Fchan used to be cool when Dr. Pon ran it, then when he left - stuff changed. Sage Nadia and all those types changed what was acceptable on the website. Same thing is likely to happen with e621, it's just an inevitable fact of the internet that websites that had a fun environment will eventually stop being fun... then you get forced to find someplace new - and then that new place will eventually experience upheaval and the cycle will repeat.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
It's not the fandom, Trucky, it's the millennial generation and being perpetually coddled and the programming that has taught them that being offended is a good thing, being able to claim victim status or the "right" placement on the "privilege scale" is a good thing. Contrary to what many trolls believe, you can be a furry and still be a sane and rational person without skin so thin it can only be measured in microns. It takes practice - like developing callouses so that you don't feel it as much when you get burned cooking.

Don't start hating what >you< like just because of >other< people... that would be dumb and letting them win.

yup

The administration shows surprising restraint here, by not simply purging the source of the problem here. I'm impressed. Sort of.

Not really.

While I am of the mind that SJW types shouldn't be given their way just because they raise their voice, for the logical reason of that potentially leading to ANY person or substantial crowd raising their voice getting special treatment to their unreasonable demands....like you.

You're using quite a bit of fuzzy math and fudging dates and facts to paint the e621 staff and community at large as something they're not: weak willed, quick to change to save their own skin, etc. There's even the likelihood that you've barely been around long enough to know what e621 is actually like.

I also don't care for the fact that you've opted to go around DMing people to try and gather a crowd of white knights to your own hypocritical appeals for emotion. That is, in the logic that I'm not so special as to be the only one you sent a DMail to.

"The administration shows surprising restraint here, by not simply purging the source of the problem here."

Maybe I'm wrong and the staff actually >do< value freedom of dissent and freedom of speech. Maybe my merely "reading over the shoulder" (not literally over someone's shoulder, I was trying to make a metaphor) of a topic and making instant assumptions about things being swayed to change when in actuality, the mods are not being cavers to a demand, but are being... what's the word or phrase... "open to suggestion."

Rassandra_Gendal said:
While I am of the mind that SJW types shouldn't be given their way just because they raise their voice, for the logical reason of that potentially leading to ANY person or substantial crowd raising their voice getting special treatment to their unreasonable demands....like you.

You're using quite a bit of fuzzy math and fudging dates and facts to paint the e621 staff and community at large as something they're not: weak willed, quick to change to save their own skin, etc. There's even the likelihood that you've barely been around long enough to know what e621 is actually like.

I also don't care for the fact that you've opted to go around DMing people to try and gather a crowd of white knights to your own hypocritical appeals for emotion. That is, in the logic that I'm not so special as to be the only one you sent a DMail to.

I...was dmailed.
Why is it a dmial anyhow.
Whats the d mean

TruckNutz said:
I...was dmailed.

Because I like you, lol.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
"The administration shows surprising restraint here, by not simply purging the source of the problem here."

Maybe I'm wrong and the staff actually >do< value freedom of dissent and freedom of speech. Maybe my merely "reading over the shoulder" (not literally over someone's shoulder, I was trying to make a metaphor) of a topic and making instant assumptions about things being swayed to change when it actuality, the mods are not being cavers to a demand, but are being... what's the word or phrase... "open to suggestion."

now you get it.
Admins and such here are pretty chill 'n shit.
Like, you have to literally TRY to piss them off.

Actinium-89 said:
The administration shows surprising restraint here, by not simply purging the source of the problem here. I'm impressed. Sort of.

Not really.

To be honest it's actually kind of funny watching this, if in a way of "Wow, there's actually still people this bad at fishing for drama."

By the way, am I the only one who finds that spaces after periods and commas in their comments on here aren't registered until they edit it? I never see it in anyone else's comments so I don't know if it's just my Firefox or..

Rassandra_Gendal said:
By the way, am I the only one who finds that spaces after periods and commas in their comments on here aren't registered until they edit it? I never see it in anyone else's comments so I don't know if it's just my Firefox or..

It happens on every comment. You don't have to edit it, all you have to do is refresh the page. The only person who sees it like that is you, and only when you make the initial post. :)

Rassandra_Gendal said:
To be honest it's actually kind of funny watching this, if in a way of "Wow, there's actually still people this bad at fishing for drama."

By the way, am I the only one who finds that spaces after periods and commas in their comments on here aren't registered until they edit it? I never see it in anyone else's comments so I don't know if it's just my Firefox or..

I fucking h8 it. I use chrome

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
"The administration shows surprising restraint here, by not simply purging the source of the problem here."

Maybe I'm wrong and the staff actually >do< value freedom of dissent and freedom of speech. Maybe my merely "reading over the shoulder" of a topic and making instant assumptions about things being swayed to change when it actuality, the mods are not being cavers to a demand, but are being... what's the word or phrase... "open to suggestion."

Surprise, an admin team that prefers to argue for what is right rather than who is right or wrong.

You mention appeals to emotion as if you aren't also guilty of doing it. The consistency with which you skew facts and details to get the reactions you want is nothing short of disgusting, yet here you are, having been warned several times instead of being permanently banned.

Rassandra_Gendal said:

By the way, am I the only one who finds that spaces after periods and commas in their comments on here aren't registered until they edit it? I never see it in anyone else's comments so I don't know if it's just my Firefox or..

It's a known bug that doesn't have any effect on text. Just refresh the page after posting.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
You base my awareness of this website on >an< account... interesting. Lurking doesn't provide a good view of the inner workings of the website... Interesting.

You... read the post, right? I think I have a fairly good grasp of what the environment here is nowadays. But hey, stuff changes, leadership changes, userbase changes -- I totally get it, and I just have to deal. Fchan used to be cool when Dr. Pon ran it, then when he left - stuff changed. Sage Nadia and all those types changed what was acceptable on the website. Same thing is likely to happen with e621, it's just an inevitable fact of the internet that websites that had a fun environment will eventually stop being fun... then you get forced to find someplace new - and then that new place will eventually experience upheaval and the cycle will repeat.

You do realize that you're ignoring the points I make, right? Kind of like how you say your points are ignored?
And you wonder why people think you're a troll.

Also, another point why I personally doubt that you've been around that long is that Arcturus, Mellis, Koekje, and the others have left a horrible track record on the page.
Dissenting voices were banned without appeal, people got banned for fun, the admins insulted users regularly in records, people who didn't agree with the narrative got banned or harassed, the admins told artists to get fucked when they wanted their art deleted from the page, and the list goes on.
We are definitely more "PC" than back in 2010, but that is in an attempt to ensure that we are fair to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are a minority or majority. If that requires that we need to sit down and listen to a minority every now and then then so be it. If we have to ban someone because they decide to shit into a thread where a serious discussion is underway then so be it.
Since you like analogies, if there is a card game in progress in a room in a tavern and the guys want to be left alone you can be damn sure some drunkard stumbling into there and trying to insult the players will be removed without so much as batting an eye.
The same has happened here and will continue to happen, and I have no qualms whatsoever to enforce common decency on this page.

Knotty_Curls said:
It's a known bug that doesn't have any effect on text. Just refresh the page after posting.

I've noticed this a lot usually when I go to post something with a URL link.

Anyway yeah, appeal to emotion, and also using the forums as a personal soap box, I guess...

https://e621.net/forum/show/197466

Yer right, this isn't a news site, it's a porn site... expecting to shove a subject like that into here is like going to a DND session and yelling at everyone there "Hey, DND sucks, let's play console games instead."

I guess in my righteous indignation, I did not step back long enough to do some introspective reflection - that's what the "vacation" was for I assume, but I didn't use it for that, instead I just built up a text document of what I was going to say once I got unbanned... I guess perhaps that was counterproductive.

I would >like< to think that some of the stuff I opened with in this thread made sense to address, but I do kinda "bury the lead" so to speak (newspaper term). I am not good at summarizing.

DragonFox69 said:
It happens on every comment. You don't have to edit it, all you have to do is refresh the page. The only person who sees it like that is you, and only when you make the initial post. :)

Ah, alright then! It's been driving me quite crazy for a bit if only because I couldn't see anyone else having it, which made little sense considering it was only here.

NotMeNotYou said:
You do realize that you're ignoring the points I make, right? Kind of like how you say your points are ignored?
And you wonder why people think you're a troll.

Also, another point why I personally doubt that you've been around that long is that Arcturus, Mellis, Koekje, and the others have left a horrible track record on the page.
Dissenting voices were banned without appeal, people got banned for fun, the admins insulted users regularly in records, people who didn't agree with the narrative got banned or harassed, the admins told artists to get fucked when they wanted their art deleted from the page, and the list goes on.
We are definitely more "PC" than back in 2010, but that is in an attempt to ensure that we are fair to everyone, regardless of whether or not they are a minority or majority. If that requires that we need to sit down and listen to a minority every now and then then so be it. If we have to ban someone because they decide to shit into a thread where a serious discussion is underway then so be it.
Since you like analogies, if there is a card game in progress in a room in a tavern and the guys want to be left alone you can be damn sure some drunkard stumbling into there and trying to insult the players will be removed without so much as batting an eye.
The same has happened here and will continue to happen, and I have no qualms whatsoever to enforce common decency on this page.

All I ask is that Ippiki is allowed to sing again.

Mana_Dragon_Flammie said:
lots and LOTS of stuff

i...i honestly don't know what, if anything, i could add to that giant of a OP. probably nothing you didn't already saythough a couple things caught my attention for unrelated reasons.

"I guess nowadays, saying "this character / drawing is quite sexy, I strongly approve of your creation" is analogous to saying "I want to find out where you live and penetrate you with a dozen Bad Dragon dicks." - perhaps it is due to the fact many furries are behaving more like otherkins; unable to separate themselves from their characters, so a comment made about a fantasy drawing = a comment made directly at the IRL them... - it would be like the voice actors for characters like Buster Bunny or Yako Warner thinking that an expression of sexual attraction to the characters they portrayed in a cartoon is an expression of sexual attraction to >them< as people..." and "Should cub artworks be completely removed from e621 to appease those who believe that drawn pictures are the same as actual hyooman CP?"

o_O people SERIOUSLY need to start learning how to separate fantasy from reality. imo that's more disturbing than "creepy" comments.

oh and lol @ https://static1.e621.net/data/7e/55/7e55af9858d798e38fa2953650c64ba2.jpg it's nice being smart enough to NOT let everything offend me. and that's really what a lot of this is. people choosing to be or to let things offend them. they want to be offended as it literally gives them power over others. they get offended and...wtf? that's exactly what you were saying. they purposely get offended and indirectly force others to show sympathy thus being manipulated into doing what the "offended" people want.

damn......i think i just realized JUST how sinister and manipulative the SJW movement truly is. the victims of it are the ones falling prey to emotional manipulation whether they realize it or not and when they cave, they've lost everything. FN...wow...that's how that happened isn't it? a few people got offended then drug more into the mess on their side which...please don't let that happen here. :(

Other people in that thread also expressed their opinions, and when those opinions ~didn't~ align with the narrative - the commenters either were or ignored in preference to people who matched the narrative, or made to feel like they were douchebags for not agreeing with it. This is appeal to emotion. (should I even say douchebag, since that's a slur and it's offensive? I mean, it takes a womens' hygiene product and turns it into a slur, same as "pussy" takes female anatomy and slur-ifies it.)

Plenty of reports came in complaining about others not agreeing with them, and they were told that not everyone would agree with them as the ticket was closed. You can disagree with a person without wanking all over them, but quite a few people decided to either do that or mock them for wanting any kind of change. That is not acceptable.

"this character / drawing is quite sexy, I strongly approve of your creation"

Nobody would get in any trouble for this. Talking about how you want to fuck a character or want that character to fuck you is a different story.

Annnyway... The mods condescended this "Scakk" person as if they were teachers and the user was a student in their classroom. "Now Billy, just because Jimmy and Timmy brought gum to class doesn't mean you should do it too, if everyone else was jumping off a cliff, would you jump too?" -- "Scakk" just came here to do what other users come here to do; fap and have fun - not have to reshape themselves and their entire thought process and language to fit with the PC "everything is offensive" hivemind.

And someone who has had an account for three years should know better. That rule has been in place longer than they have been here, minus a very brief period when it wasn't and users wanted it reinstated. Appeals for records are not supposed to be on the forums, but are supposed to be discussed with an administrator. Stop confusing "political correctness" with "oh no I can't needlessly be an asshole anymore". You read what you want to read from forum posts.

What is the point of creating works of art if you >don't< want people to enjoy them??? That would be like a musician making a song and then they get a bunch of comments on Youtube from people saying how much they ~like~ the song and the musicians who made it are like "Ugh, gtfo, stop objectifying my art you shitlords!" You don't want people to comment about how much your image sexually arouses them? Ohhhh-kaaaaaay... Neat. How about maybe not make porn and maybe stick to just doing clean art... but even then, chances are someone will fap to the clean art too. Hell, what do you think most furries were doing during cartoons; fapping to Bugs Bunny probably. Yeah Bugs, wave dat bunny tail. Oh hey, what about when Sega got super upset because people were drawing so much Sonic-verse porn. "Stop objectifying our characters, damn furries!"

Artists have full right to not like certain commenting behaviors. I have gotten suggestive comments on my work (and I don't make porn) and it was seriously unwanted and uncalled for. We don't need to know that you're touching yourself to something I or anyone else made. Keep your fantasies in your head and out of the comments.

We're not FA. We're not Fchan. If you like those sites, use them instead. Our rules are simple. If you decide not to follow them, and those instances are reported, you will be given records or bans. Welcome to being part of a site with moderation.

Damn Flammie you just got coalition'd by literally everyone

Mana Dragon Flammie out of all the years I've been on this site you and I have never spoken ONCE but suddenly you send me a random link asking to take part in this bullshit?

Bruh. No.

this thread is a disaster

Aww, I wasn't Dmailed... :(

Mutisija said:
this thread is a disaster

yep, but it's a hilarious and absurd disaster

"millenials!"

"political correctness!"

"things used to be better!"

OP sounds like oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

Not sure what to respond to. This is another mess.

Specifically about the claim that e621 used to be easy-going, I hated what that meant for the forums. Threads would quickly devolve into off-topic inanities, too often before even reaching their second page the discussion had already moved completely away from the original post. That still happens, but to a lesser degree where new posts either respond generally, discuss own feelings when not solicited, or merely respond to the latest posts regardless of declining relevance.

Don't pine for the days when less of a shit could be given for interacting without respect and dignity. It shows everyone you hold yourself to a lower standard and don't desire as much respect and dignity yourself. And for the love of god, stop bringing up SJWs and all that other bullshit. The OP doesn't even get past the first sentence without dredging up their memory. The comparison is untoward, unhelpful, and entirely beside the point. That they exist and are detestable is not a reason to constantly bring them into discussions here, and doing so is propping up a strawman. Trying to superimpose a widely disliked group onto the Other here--in this case, the actors responsible for the alluded "recent changes"--is an underhanded appeal for support.

Do yourself a big favor and just stop thinking about SJWs, millennials, Christians, and whichever other groups until you're able to determine where you stand and frame your arguments on a given issue without thoughts of them and their "narratives" pervading and poisoning your own perceptions. If you can't rise above their narratives, then you become no better than "them" for perpetuating those narratives, even in opposition.

Yawn. If you don't know how to troll other users without breaking the rules, you are an unimaginative failure.

I just want to point out that this is a wrong question:

What is the point of creating works of art if you >don't< want people to enjoy them???

Whether you want people (aside from yourself) to enjoy your art is a question that each individual artist must answer. For most artists, it's rewarding and motivating when people enjoy their work. But for many artists, people enjoying their work is definitely not *the point*. It may be to understand X better, practice a technique, achieve a better result than last time, simply communicate your thoughts on a subject, or for a professional, simply get the job done well enough and move on.

People also typically have standards for -how- their work should be enjoyed. Acknowledging the artist as a person and writing a comment expressing your appreciation of the specific merits of their work, is immeasurably better than simply getting lost in the wank inside your own head. The latter tells them very little about the quality of the artwork, and a lot about you.

...

treos said:

o_O people SERIOUSLY need to start learning how to separate fantasy from reality. imo that's more disturbing than "creepy" comments.

Totally. Or more precisely, to separate feelings and imagination from facts. IMO this is the driving factor behind most SJW-vomit. If you're pushing for a change but have no facts to point at, you should just shut up until you do.

And if you do have facts ('I feel upset about this' counts as a fact, FWIW, but imputing real-world meaning to that feeling or dramatizing it does not, and repeating it does not make it more meaningful), contaminating them by adding appeals to emotion should be an absolute last resort.

(also if you're not actually pushing for any definite change but are agitating shit because you want to feel like you are pushing for change, you should double shut up.)

TruckNutz said:

I...was dmailed.
Why is it a dmial anyhow.
Whats the d mean

Hanging around on a site like e621, I would have thought you knew what the d means. ;)

#MakeE621GreatAgain

Mutisija said:
this thread is a disaster

Time to lock it up and throw away the key?

eSix has changed. That's for sure.

For good or for bad? I guess that's yet to be seen for the site as a whole.

But as for me? Well, I already know what I think.

I think this thread has about run its course.