Two of my pieces were taken down and I can't seem to find anything explaining why. Afaik they followed the site's guidelines and were getting upvoted/favourited. Should I just reupload?

https://e621.net/post/deleted_index?user_id=102180

They were deleted because they don't meet the minimum quality standards we expect for our posts. Reuploading them will just get them deleted again and you will receive a record for uploading previously-deleted content.

Whether or not something gets voted on or favorited plays no part in deletions.

Find the removed images by searching these terms:

user:MarshmallowPon3 status:any

Click on the deleted thumbnails, and on the top it will tell you who deleted it. You can then send a message to them with the post number and ask the exact reason why it was removed.

Whoops some people beat me to it, lol.

well, without injecting bias into this opinion, i've found that reuploading deleted work will lead you to be punished. it would be best to ask the deleter themselves, and see what adjustments you can make to your work.

these discussions of minimum quality standards tend to be cyclical, as they are asked so often. personally, i'd enjoy more work like the following:

post #1180887

I don't understand, how do they not meet the minimum quality standards? I have seen so much lower quality content uploaded- Hell even by me! I'm very confused.

As such, quite a few of your other posts have been deleted as well.

Older content is grandfathered as we had different quality standards back some time ago. The posts are otherwise lacking artistically, mainly with anatomy. Older posts were kept because of age.

Ratte said:
https://e621.net/post/deleted_index?user_id=102180

They were deleted because they don't meet the minimum quality standards we expect for our posts. Reuploading them will just get them deleted again and you will receive a record for uploading previously-deleted content.

Whether or not something gets voted on or favorited plays no part in deletions.

Can you please explain why it did not meet minimum quality standards, and how images such as the above posted by fewrahuxo do?

Ratte said:
As such, quite a few of your other posts have been deleted as well.

Older content is grandfathered as we had different quality standards back some time ago. The posts are otherwise lacking artistically, mainly with anatomy. Older posts were kept because of age.

That makes me very sad, I liked posting here. :(

MarshmallowPon3 said:
Can you please explain why it did not meet minimum quality standards, and how images such as the above posted by fewrahuxo do?

The anatomy in your images is blobby and strangely defined. I can't tell where the knees are supposed to be, the hands are two different sizes, one arm is longer than the other, the righthand thumb seems broken or stuck in a strange position, one breast is situated weirdly high compared to the other, and I can't tell if it's supposed to be standing or laying down. In the NSFW version the genitals seem to be rotated to point upward, defying gravity.

Weaver's work is very minimalist, but otherwise things are in the right place and make sense visually.

Ratte said:
The anatomy in your images is blobby and strangely defined. I can't tell where the knees are supposed to be, the hands are two different sizes, one arm is longer than the other, the righthand thumb seems broken or stuck in a strange position, one breast is situated weirdly high compared to the other, and I can't tell if it's supposed to be standing or laying down. In the NSFW version the genitals seem to be rotated to point upward, defying gravity.

Weaver's work is very minimalist, but otherwise things are in the right place and make sense visually.

The genitals are pointed upward because that is how sheaths work. character is slouched on their side essentially leaning on their shoulder and right arm. In any case did it really warrant taking down nearly every piece I've posted recently? I'm honestly pretty hurt...

The specific piece you're referring to I'd argue is simply a stylized picture and the blobbyness is said style. If you look at other pieces I've done they've not been blobby, and it was only blobby for a unique stylistic taste.

MarshmallowPon3 said:
The genitals are pointed upward because that is how sheaths work. character is slouched on their side essentially leaning on their shoulder and right arm. In any case did it really warrant taking down nearly every piece I've posted recently? I'm honestly pretty hurt...

The specific piece you're referring to I'd argue is simply a stylized picture and the blobbyness is said style. If you look at other pieces I've done they've not been blobby, and it was only blobby for a unique stylistic taste.

The testicles are pointed out instead of down, thus defying gravity.

Let's not go with the "it's my style" excuse. You won't like where it ends.

Ratte said:
The testicles are pointed out instead of down, thus defying gravity.

Let's not go with the "it's my style" excuse. You won't like where it ends.

Alright, I'm severely disappointed though. I'm sad that e621's standards now effectively kills off new artists. :(

SquishyPinkKitty said:
Alright, I'm severely disappointed though. I'm sad that e621's standards now effectively kills off new artists. :(

Kills off? You make it sound like e621 is the only place they can upload their artwork.

BlueDingo said:
Kills off? You make it sound like e621 is the only place they can upload their artwork.

Kills off new artists in the context of this website. Sorry, didn't mean to imply in general or anything!

SquishyPinkKitty said:
Alright, I'm severely disappointed though. I'm sad that e621's standards now effectively kills off new artists. :(

They can post to dedicated gallery sites like FurAffinity and DeviantArt, which lack quality standards. We are not a gallery site, we are an archive.

SquishyPinkKitty said:
Alright, I'm severely disappointed though. I'm sad that e621's standards now effectively kills off new artists. :(

This is not an artist-focused site, its an art-focused site. There is a big distinction.

Interestingly, to me, almost every complaint we get on the forum can be traced back to this distinction. Minimum quality standards? Yup. TWYS policy based on the concept of "death of the author"? Yup. People uploading work that isn't their own? Yup.

Lately we're getting one of these threads every few days on average.
Maybe there should be a sticky addressing it?

Ratte said:
As such, quite a few of your other posts have been deleted as well.

Classy.

Beanjam said:
Classy.

They were deleted before either of our responses, and mostly by another administrator.

Clawdragons said:
This is not an artist-focused site, its an art-focused site. There is a big distinction.

Interestingly, to me, almost every complaint we get on the forum can be traced back to this distinction. Minimum quality standards? Yup. TWYS policy based on the concept of "death of the author"? Yup. People uploading work that isn't their own? Yup.

Which is understandable! I, of course, feel personally that much of my new art actually was of acceptable quality (considering at least a number of people favourited it) but I understand that I kind of used the site incorrectly as well.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my art, specifically newer art, wasn't removed necessarily because of quality and more so because I actually uploaded all of my art personally. If this is the case though I really would have appreciated just being told that directly not to upload my own art and use e621 as a platform to get noticed.

MarshmallowPon3 said:
Which is understandable! I, of course, feel personally that much of my new art actually was of acceptable quality (considering at least a number of people favourited it) but I understand that I kind of used the site incorrectly as well.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my art, specifically newer art, wasn't removed necessarily because of quality and more so because I actually uploaded all of my art personally. If this is the case though I really would have appreciated just being told that directly not to upload my own art and use e621 as a platform to get noticed.

It had everything to do with quality and absolutely nothing to do with who uploaded what. People upload their own work all the time-- this is acceptable and even encouraged for those with high-quality art to share.

It does not matter if someone upvotes or favorite your posts. This has no say whatsoever in whether or not those posts will be deleted.

MarshmallowPon3 said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that my art, specifically newer art, wasn't removed necessarily because of quality and more so because I actually uploaded all of my art personally. If this is the case though I really would have appreciated just being told that directly not to upload my own art and use e621 as a platform to get noticed.

i highly doubt that's the case here.

Ratte said:
It had everything to do with quality and absolutely nothing to do with who uploaded what. People upload their own work all the time-- this is acceptable and even encouraged for those with high-quality art to share.

It does not matter if someone upvotes or favorite your posts. This has no say whatsoever in whether or not those posts will be deleted.

I am not arguing that people upvoting or favouriting my posts does matter. I'm simply stating that it means that to some group of people my art is of acceptable quality, not that it is in the minds of the staff here. Or should have any impact on your decision to remove it*

i think you should be proud to have the rest of your art approved. some artists get bagged on the spot.

post #1220362

fewrahuxo said:
i think you should be proud to have the rest of your art approved. some artists get bagged on the spot.

post #1220362

Certainly, it's just a little confusing that I was able to get by for so long. Especially if you look at some of my really old mlp art! The worst thing for me is I had art that is of the same line art quality and colouring with at worst very minor anatomy issues as the one you linked here and yet it was removed to. The one of two Siamese cats.

MarshmallowPon3 said:
[...]

well, you know what they say: most artists hate their old work, and the rest are liars. it so happens that art is in the eye of the beholder, often, and on a booru like this you have to meet the standards of the approvers, who are often experienced artists in themselves.

so if Ratte is telling you about anatomy, a sore spot for many artists and the go-to complaint for many critics, perhaps it would do one some pleasure to bone up on it. figure drawing doesn't have to be boring, though if you tell me how to stop it from being boring, i'd be happy to learn.

fewrahuxo said:
...

I definitely recognize anatomy as a sore spot for me when it comes to my art, but I really didn't think it was at such a low level that it is not allowed on this site essentially and I actually have been doing figure drawing.. I think there was a pretty obvious up in quality of my anatomy not too long ago.

SquishyPinkKitty said:
[...]

if you happen to be rejected, you must understand it isn't because you're a bad artist. there are many works that i enjoy which are deleted a few hours later, yours included. the same for many other artists who aren't appreciated by the booru's fans because it doesn't fit the type of art they're typically used to seeing; the median score of my favourites is seven.

the most practical reason you were rejected is because you didn't please the approver who went over your art, and approvers don't typically justify their reasoning unless they're asked. the best thing you can do is keep posting new work, as it is clear you are going to be a good artist, even if the audience will not appreciate that.

Ijerk said:
Lately we're getting one of these threads every few days on average.
Maybe there should be a sticky addressing it?

My thoughts exactly.

I don't think a sticky would do anything, but I could be wrong.

Clawdragons said:
I don't think a sticky would do anything, but I could be wrong.

I agree with you on that. I see these threads as at least somewhat productive. The user who made the thread learns something, and the responses needed are not too diverse (unless they ask for specifics). A stickied thread would only have copy-paste "responses" that aren't all (quantity-wise) helpful.

Or, for a comparison, would you like to be put on an automated response call, or put on-line with a representative?

I've quickly looked at some of them and, if the guy would have removed the colors and uploaded those instead, they would have very likely been just fine because they look as good as 90% of the_weaver's, art, doodles, stuff

IMO, your art is in the gray zone where I have to take much more time than other posts thinking about if I should approve or delete it. Or I just skip past it. Your art's "quality" is probably going to trend upward as you continue to practice.

Clawdragons said:
I don't think a sticky would do anything, but I could be wrong.

Pretty much what I was thinking. If the person is ignorant and doesn't read thousand threads like this one, open up and read wiki and guidelines (guidelines which you should be aware of before hitting "upload") or ask the person handling removal directly, there's pretty high change they will also ignore sticky thread.

Lance_Armstrong said:
IMO, your art is in the gray zone where I have to take much more time than other posts thinking about if I should approve or delete it....

And usually the thing with gray zone is that many just lean towards approval to not get caught into this kind of useless fights - which should not be the case at all.

Also just slight observation, but it seems like usually users posting bad or gray area stuff are usually artists themselves, which makes them even more pain to handle as simple objective decision which shouldn't effect anyone suddenly becomes personal matter just like with this threads OP.

Mario69 said:
Pretty much what I was thinking. If the person is ignorant and doesn't read thousand threads like this one, open up and read wiki and guidelines (guidelines which you should be aware of before hitting "upload") or ask the person handling removal directly, there's pretty high change they will also ignore sticky thread.

And usually the thing with gray zone is that many just lean towards approval to not get caught into this kind of useless fights - which should not be the case at all.

Also just slight observation, but it seems like usually users posting bad or gray area stuff are usually artists themselves, which makes them even more pain to handle as simple objective decision which shouldn't effect anyone suddenly becomes personal matter just like with this threads OP.

Some of the images removed weren't grey area though. Many I very much understand as they had a good bit of aliasing. But at least two images were done in the same method as this (below) and yet were removed.

https://e621.net/post/show/1220362/anthro-blush-breasts-duo-feline-female-hair-long_h

I definitely understand why my older content was removed. There's an argument for it sure but I feel like my newer art was removed unreasonably. (With the piece that starred this discussion being an exexception)

Edit: Art is never an objective decision. Otherwise we'd not have seen many of my earlier stuff accepted in the first place. Art being subjective is part of why I can't argue with the admins whether or not I'm up to their quality standards. It's a good and bad thing in this context. ;P

Mario69 said:
Pretty much what I was thinking. If the person is ignorant and doesn't read thousand threads like this one, open up and read wiki and guidelines (guidelines which you should be aware of before hitting "upload") or ask the person handling removal directly, there's pretty high change they will also ignore sticky thread.

I get that people might not see the sticky right away, but I still don't see the harm in having one. At the very least a person could have a link directing them to an art critique thread and have the original locked. That way they're probably getting quicker responses than the specific mod who deleted the post could give.

I'm getting p tired of seeing these threads all the time too. Maybe instead of the header on the uploading page having the links for posting guidelines there could be a script that takes note of if you've uploaded before or if you recently had something deleted. If either is true then a page prompting you to read or re-read uploading guidelines (as well as how to get in contact with admins etc.) could appear that you would have to click continue to get past. Make the uploading guideline links a little more obvious since many people seem to skim past them or ignore them altogether.

TOV said:
I get that people might not see the sticky right away, but I still don't see the harm in having one. At the very least a person could have a link directing them to an art critique thread and have the original locked. That way they're probably getting quicker responses than the specific mod who deleted the post could give.

I'm getting p tired of seeing these threads all the time too. Maybe instead of the header on the uploading page having the links for posting guidelines there could be a script that takes note of if you've uploaded before or if you recently had something deleted. If either is true then a page prompting you to read or re-read uploading guidelines (as well as how to get in contact with admins etc.) could appear that you would have to click continue to get past. Make the uploading guideline links a little more obvious since many people seem to skim past them or ignore them altogether.

I don't think it's as easy as just creating a list of criteria for what makes a "quality post" it's probably important to keep it ambiguous and up to mod interpretation. It kind of sucks but having strict rules that are 1 or 0 would mean people like theweaver wouldn't be on at all. If you get what I mean?

MarshmallowPon3 said:
I don't think it's as easy as just creating a list of criteria for what makes a "quality post" it's probably important to keep it ambiguous and up to mod interpretation. It kind of sucks but having strict rules that are 1 or 0 would mean people like theweaver wouldn't be on at all. If you get what I mean?

Uh no I don't really see what you mean and from my experience most active members (at least ones that take interest in the community and more than just posting) are pretty familiar with whats acceptable material. But honestly I was mostly suggesting the thread so other admins could view the piece posted on another site and pass judgement or at least try to help other users understanding of the deletion. That way the user in question doesn't have to wait for the specific admin that deleted the piece to come back on.

And yes I do agree that art to an extent is subjective but ultimately our opinion on our own art doesn't really matter when posting to a site that isn't ours.

TOV said:
I get that people might not see the sticky right away, but I still don't see the harm in having one.

As a general rule, fewer stickies are preferable to more stickies. It clogs the front page of the forum, and each additional sticky makes it less likely that the stickies will be read at all. If a sticky isn't going to be valuable, it is better not to have it.

MarshmallowPon3 said:
Some of the images removed weren't grey area though. Many I very much understand as they had a good bit of aliasing. But at least two images were done in the same method as this (below) and yet were removed.

https://e621.net/post/show/1220362/anthro-blush-breasts-duo-feline-female-hair-long_h

I definitely understand why my older content was removed. There's an argument for it sure but I feel like my newer art was removed unreasonably. (With the piece that starred this discussion being an exexception)

The anatomy in the removed pieces are the problem, if you ask Ratte nicely she'd probably be inclined to provide you a red line for your pictures so you can better see what you did wrong.

Neitsuke said:
I've quickly looked at some of them and, if the guy would have removed the colors and uploaded those instead, they would have very likely been just fine because they look as good as 90% of the_weaver's, art, doodles, stuff

MarshmallowPon3's coloring and shading is a bit simplistic but perfectly fine otherwise and has not been the reason at all.
Also, this argument you keep beating is getting old. Weaver's art is the bottom rung of what we're inclined to accept because he is capable of drawing anatomically correct. A concept you don't seem to be willing to come to terms with at all.

TOV said:
I get that people might not see the sticky right away, but I still don't see the harm in having one.

A thread like that would devolve into chaos very quickly where angry people "ask" why their stuff got deleted, and any time we would present our case it'd just go back to "but but but" based on older cases, or trying to twist guidelines and what other admins said before.
The best way to go about deletions is still to ask the person who deleted it directly. We can see deleted artworks on e6 so it's as simple as giving us a link to the submission page itself.

Also, we already have an entire wiki page dedicated to uploading guidelines, which also contains a section for quality standards in particular and ways to contact us. In this case it's simply a problem that the anatomy had pretty obvious issues^{[1]] and thus failed the requirement to "display a solid grasp of artistic principles"[2].}

Yes, anatomically correct, on oversimplified cartoony characters with exaggerated features drawn with very vague unrefined forms. Alright, makes ton of sense.

Even then that excuse doesn't even make any logic. A lot of previous uploaded pictures with respectable quality have some anatomy problems and no one is arguing over them if the picture should be deleted or not.

So well detailed sketches on paper having "questionable" contrast - And work with actual time and effort put into them that have okay looking forms but questionable anatomy apparently, are deemed as bad, but really quick 5 minutes doodles with exaggerated features drawn with shaky lines that barely represent characters are deemed as acceptable and superior. I'll try to keep that in mind

Neitsuke said:
Yes, anatomically correct, on oversimplified cartoony characters with exaggerated features drawn with very vague unrefined forms. Alright, makes ton of sense.

Even then that excuse doesn't even make any logic. A lot of previous uploaded pictures with respectable quality have some anatomy problems and no one is arguing over them if the picture should be deleted or not.

So well detailed sketches on paper having "questionable" contrast - And work with actual time and effort put into them that have okay looking forms but questionable anatomy apparently, are deemed as bad, but really quick 5 minutes doodles with exaggerated features drawn with shaky lines that barely represent characters are deemed as acceptable and superior. I'll try to keep that in mind

Thank you for providing a demonstration for TOV on why a mega thread would be a bad idea, your cooperation is appreciated.

The anatomy in the deleted pictures is bad, not a little wonky. Even "oversimplified cartoony characters" should have hands of the same size, for example.
And for what it's worth, and I'm just repeating what I have told you before in different threads: if traditional media is not impeccably photographed or properly scanned it will be rejected regardless of artistic quality of the actual drawing. This is known, everybody has to adhere to that.

NotMeNotYou said:
Thank you for providing a demonstration for TOV on why a mega thread would be a bad idea, your cooperation is appreciated.

Wait huh, I feel like I missed something in the Neitsuke post that had to do with the critique thread? Also I felt like your first response

NotMeNotYou said:
A thread like that would devolve into chaos

made much more sense. I could see how something like that could become a clusterfuck. I guess I just had a little too much faith in artists to respect the rulings of the site admins and to want to hear out critique and focus more on improving for their next piece. But I've been in this fandom long enough to know there's too many babies that would rather fight for the tiny bit of attention their art gets them online.

So point taken, I'll stop asking about the critique thread and just seek it on different platforms. Still gonna post here though. I like the challenge that stricter posting rules imposes on my stuff.

This thread has really unraveled into something I didn't intend. u.u

Sorry to have started it hehe, appreciate the support though. I've just uploaded a new thing and here's hoping it meets expectations! Don't really want to be known for other works anyhow.

NotMeNotYou said:
Thank you for providing a demonstration for TOV on why a mega thread would be a bad idea, your cooperation is appreciated.

The anatomy in the deleted pictures is bad, not a little wonky. Even "oversimplified cartoony characters" should have hands of the same size, for example.
And for what it's worth, and I'm just repeating what I have told you before in different threads: if traditional media is not impeccably photographed or properly scanned it will be rejected regardless of artistic quality of the actual drawing. This is known, everybody has to adhere to that.

I don't really see how the anatomy of these two works is really bad as apposed to wonky. The worst aspect is definitely hands/paws but we see artists simply draw circles for hands. From what I'm understanding as long as it's consistent (proportional that is) it shouldn't be a big deal.

https://d.facdn.net/art/squishypon3/1495061375/1495061375.squishypon3_danielle_wow_finished.png

https://d.facdn.net/art/squishypon3/1494966053/1494966053.squishypon3_danielle_anal.png

And with this last one I'm assuming the problem is with the left side of the image being kind of oddly done, mostly the left raised paw since it's kind of floating in an area it probably shouldn't be, plus the stomach/chest is a bit of a mess if you really look into it. But I feel like this isn't something the majority of the userbase will notice especially considering the character in the center is pretty well done anatomically. (in my opinion of course ;P)

https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23573668/

I'm just a little confused because I'm seeing relatively minor problems mean an entire image is taken down despite it having obviously a lot more time or effort put into things like colour, linework, and etc. I mean.. This was accepted for example.

https://e621.net/post/show/1221862/blush-earth_pony-equine-fan_character-female-feral

I know it's pretty whiny on my part, and sorry about that, I don't want to fight or anything I just want to understand how you guys are thinking so I can make sure future posts won't be poofed.

pls no flame war everyone u.u