Given the current state of the world, what with the resurgent of Nazis and hate filed ideologies along the lines of Nazism, Im wondering if this website should take a look at the pictures that get posted encouraging or promoting that sort of imagery.

I know if I were running a site I'd want to heavily distance myself from Nazis

this gon be gud

um...i really dislike pandering to emotions and... https://e621.net/post/index/1/fav:treos%20nazi please define "hate speech" as that is one heck of a subjective term these days.

plus, nowadays, even the term "nazi" tends to be subjective somewhat or perhaps a buzzword.

wait I thought we were nazis

Same here, I thought we admins were literally nazis.

If anybody doesn't want to see them, they can blacklist it.

Some people have a fetish for the Nazi uniform. I don't like it at all, but can understand how some people would. And it IS mostly about the uniform; I've almost never seen a piece of furry art involving Nazi uniforms where Nazi views and ideology are actually preached. People can enjoy the aesthetic of something without subscribing to the deeper ideas that said thing represents.

Furrin_Gok said:
If anybody doesn't want to see them, they can blacklist it.

This.

NotMeNotYou said:
Same here, I thought we admins were literally nazis.

Well... you are German...

But all in all seriousness, this is the single most ridiculous thing I've heard on this site and that speaks volumes about how absurd this topic is. Yeah, the Holocaust and Nazi movement was a terrible point in history and does continue to inspire horrendous acts of cruelty and bigotry by people today, but that doesn't mean we should try to censor anyone's right to free speech. Remember, e621 is based in Pheonix, Arizona, USA and is therefore subject to all laws and regulations from a local to federal level, but also enjoys the same protections those laws give everyone else.

Now that I think of it, this seems more like an attempt to ruffle feathers than anything else. Please don't do that, intentionally or otherwise.

UnusualParadox said:
Well... you are German...

But all in all seriousness, this is the single most ridiculous thing I've heard on this site and that speaks volumes about how absurd this topic is. Yeah, the Holocaust and Nazi movement was a terrible point in history and does continue to inspire horrendous acts of cruelty and bigotry by people today, but that doesn't mean we should try to censor anyone's right to free speech. Remember, e621 is based in Pheonix, Arizona, USA and is therefore subject to all laws and regulations from a local to federal level, but also enjoys the same protections those laws give everyone else.

Now that I think of it, this seems more like an attempt to ruffle feathers than anything else. Please don't do that, intentionally or otherwise.

Just noting while e621 must abide by state laws, it does not have to accommodate for your rights of freedom of speech/religion as a private website...

Darou said:
Just noting while e621 must abide by state laws, it does not have to accommodate for your rights of freedom of speech/religion as a private website...

What Darou said. Freedom of speech just means you wont be sent to prison for saying something, it does not mean that a website/venue must host what you say or that others can not get upset at you for saying it.

I like to live in the good old days where we lived by the rule:
If you don't like it, dont look at it.

UnusualParadox said:
Now that I think of it, this seems more like an attempt to ruffle feathers than anything else. Please don't do that, intentionally or otherwise.

Its not an attempt to ruffle feathers, it was an honest question

We're still not going to cave to "popular" opinions. Our blacklist exists and we welcome any and all content as long as it's legal for us to host. If someone doesn't like it they can blacklist it.

RainW said:
Given the current state of the world, what with the resurgent of Nazis and hate filed ideologies along the lines of Nazism, Im wondering if this website should take a look at the pictures that get posted encouraging or promoting that sort of imagery.

I know if I were running a site I'd want to heavily distance myself from Nazis

So you want censorship... Do you want us to block out any other hateful groups as well, like Islam and Communism, or is this a targeted request?

"Hey man, when did you become a fellow Nazi?"

"After I saw nazi furry porn!"

"Me too!"

"AAAAAA"

"AAAAAAA"

NotMeNotYou said:
We're still not going to cave to "popular" opinions. Our blacklist exists and we welcome any and all content as long as it's legal for us to host. If someone doesn't like it they can blacklist it.

Saved me the trouble. Thanks, NotMe.

are we going to remove rape-kink pornography if the story of a serial rapist makes headline news?

NotMeNotYou said:
as long as it's legal for us to host

I'm pretty sure cub porn isn't legal...

BlackLicorice said:
I'm pretty sure cub porn isn't legal...

In some places, neither is being gay, or disagreeing with a particular religion, etc. Just because some random country bans something that some people there don't like doesn't make it a global/universal "crime". In the case of this site and where it's hosted, the law doesn't care.

BlackLicorice said:
I'm pretty sure cub porn isn't legal...

Once upon a time, all pornography was illegal in the U.S. ...We never got rid of that law; we were too embarrassed to. Instead, we made up some nonsense about how pornography was protected by the first amendment^*. But we didn't want ALL pornography to be legal... what about legitimate CP?! So pornography was deemed illegal if it was "obscene". One Supreme Court guy defined "obscene" as "I know it when I see it". A very useless definition. So to determine if pornography is illegal, we're supposed to ask the locals in our area if there ok with this pornography being sol-... Yeah, this was pre-internet and they never updated the law...

There's been laws to make loli/shota illegal before, but they were eventually ruled unconstitutional because they were vague enough to make Romeo and Juliet be considered child pornography.

States can have there own rules on what's "obscene" nowadays. Cub porn might arguably be illegal in some states, I'm not sure, but all that matters on this site is what's legal in Arizona (or was it New Mexico? One of those two).

^{* Similarly nonsense led to Japan's blur censorship loophole}

notawerewolf said:
are we going to remove rape-kink pornography if the story of a serial rapist makes headline news?

Every time something happens, and the media reports it, people demand actions, and politicians (or corporations) do something.
People are satisfied and forget about the thing that happened, until next week, when something else happens.

About your rhetorical question:
Only if the serial rapist is a male who rapes females.

Munkelzahn said:
Only if the serial rapist is a male who rapes females.

So any time.

Impartiality is a much better distancer than partiality (which tends to invoke the Streisand effect if imperfectly executed; it certainly should be expected with a site like e621, where new items are publically visible before they are officially approved)

Propaganda images having some effect in isolation is possible in theory, but the principles laid out in The True Believer
, an analysis of cult/mass-movement psychology, suggest that a site like Facebook -- which facilitates the creation of an intellectual and social bubble and floods the individual with rapidfire social feedback -- is a far more credible danger than the most hellish hypothetical version of e621 could ever hope to be.

Azula_Arktandr said:
Some people have a fetish for the Nazi uniform. I don't like it at all, but can understand how some people would. And it IS mostly about the uniform; I've almost never seen a piece of furry art involving Nazi uniforms where Nazi views and ideology are actually preached.

Should be a 'hugo_boss' tag, I guess..

savageorange said:
Should be a 'hugo_boss' tag, I guess..

Hugo Boss makes a lot of things so unless the logo is present, no.

I originally had a ;) on the end of that sentence. Guess I should have left it on.

TheHuskyK9 said:
"Hey man, when did you become a fellow Nazi?"

"After I saw nazi furry porn!"

"Me too!"

"AAAAAA"

"AAAAAAA"

post #589553

This has to be a joke, right? We either censor everything or nothing. I am in favor of nothing. Use the blacklist.
The Hugo Boss uniform gets me everytime though. It's sharp, can't help it.

Say what you will about the Nazis, they had some seriously sharp clothing. It makes me sad I can't wear one of their trenchcoats (minus the logo of course) without getting labeled.

Azula_Arktandr said:
Some people have a fetish for the Nazi uniform. I don't like it at all, but can understand how some people would. And it IS mostly about the uniform; I've almost never seen a piece of furry art involving Nazi uniforms where Nazi views and ideology are actually preached. People can enjoy the aesthetic of something without subscribing to the deeper ideas that said thing represents.

Thirtyeight said:
Say what you will about the Nazis, they had some seriously sharp clothing. It makes me sad I can't wear one of their trenchcoats (minus the logo of course) without getting labeled.

yep, that's what i like about them. they had some great looking uniforms.

WaffleDragon said:
post #589553

This has to be a joke, right? We either censor everything or nothing. I am in favor of nothing. Use the blacklist.
The Hugo Boss uniform gets me everytime though. It's sharp, can't help it.

another thing i really dislike would be censorship as often times it's used to block things for stupid reasons. well...more often than not actually.

considering the state of the world where fascism is a credible threat to multiple world governments, including the United States being run by a demagogue with little oversight, i would appreciate it if the concerns of original poster RainW was taken a little more seriously as opposed to having their idea be considered immediately silly. reminds me of high school, honestly.

as for the practicalities of the idea, it would require a rehaul of the site's philosophy, or the unwritten "mission statement" that makes it exist. right now the mission statement is hosting every piece of furry artwork there is, stopping just short of being a garbage dump, and that includes those pieces of art which the most normal of us so very hate.

it would be nice if it wasn't the user's responsibility to blacklist tasteless content and drama bait, but there would need to be another booru with a stronger personal philosophy to enforce that.

i suppose if e621 ever goes against the wall because of some obscenity trial, the site hosts will look back on threads like this and wonder how things could have been. but then it would be cited for about a million counts of copyright infringement, so who knows?

fewrahuxo said:
considering the state of the world where fascism is a credible threat to multiple world governments, including the United States being run by a demagogue with little oversight, i would appreciate it if the concerns of original poster RainW was taken a little more seriously as opposed to having their idea be considered immediately silly. reminds me of high school, honestly.

as for the practicalities of the idea, it would require a rehaul of the site's philosophy, or the unwritten "mission statement" that makes it exist. right now the mission statement is hosting every piece of furry artwork there is, stopping just short of being a garbage dump, and that includes those pieces of art which the most normal of us so very hate.

it would be nice if it wasn't the user's responsibility to blacklist tasteless content and drama bait, but there would need to be another booru with a stronger personal philosophy to enforce that.

i suppose if e621 ever goes against the wall because of some obscenity trial, the site hosts will look back on threads like this and wonder how things could have been. but then it would be cited for about a million counts of copyright infringement, so who knows?

The world's always sucked. Ignoring the past doesn't make it go away.

If it makes you feel better, these furries will probably be the first ones killed by the Fourth Reich.

Unless there's an exemption for the "Noble Degenerate."

Fenrick said:
If it makes you feel better, these furries will probably be the first ones killed by the Fourth Reich.

Unless there's an exemption for the "Noble Degenerate."

There is some evidence that Hitler was a furry, or at least a wolfaboo
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hitler+nickname+wolf&ia=web

fewrahuxo said:
considering the state of the world where fascism is a credible threat to multiple world governments, including the United States being run by a demagogue with little oversight, i would appreciate it if the concerns of original poster RainW was taken a little more seriously as opposed to having their idea be considered immediately silly. reminds me of high school, honestly.

As someone who's lived in Germany for a significant portion of their life, I can't help but strongly disagree with this sentiment. I don't mean to get overly political, but due to my position, I have insight to share regarding the matter.

Germany, since last I lived there, was a Democratic Republic that incorporated elements of socialism into their socioeconomic model to assist as many people as possible in leading comfortable, yet industrious lives. Their modern constitution explicitly advocates for an inclusive model that encourages open mindedness and rational discourse, while still being stringent in their variant of checks and balances for the federal government. The result is that, while nazism and corruption have been allowed very little foothold in both federal and regional governments, some seats have been occupied by thinly-veiled neo-nazis in the form of the NPD. Rather than gain influence, they've become even more of a laughingstock and example of how to harbor politically and culturally harmful opinions.

Similarly, exposure to these elements online does not inherently put these--for lack of better term--wackos on a pedestal to the reasonable masses, but rather diverts mainstream attention to them in a way that encourages understanding that these people continue to be a threat to the free world, rather than an element that has been left to the past. Awful, hateful individuals will continue to cling to that ultranationalist mindset regardless of political pressure to ban it, so it's really a net positive that these people are being discouraged by a majority with some semblance of a consciousness and historical understanding, rather than being driven to the complete underground where their actions become more difficult to trace and more likely to fester into violent extremism.

fewrahuxo said:
considering the state of the world where fascism is a credible threat to multiple world governments, including the United States being run by a demagogue with little oversight, i would appreciate it if the concerns of original poster RainW was taken a little more seriously as opposed to having their idea be considered immediately silly. reminds me of high school, honestly.

as for the practicalities of the idea, it would require a rehaul of the site's philosophy, or the unwritten "mission statement" that makes it exist. right now the mission statement is hosting every piece of furry artwork there is, stopping just short of being a garbage dump, and that includes those pieces of art which the most normal of us so very hate.

it would be nice if it wasn't the user's responsibility to blacklist tasteless content and drama bait, but there would need to be another booru with a stronger personal philosophy to enforce that.

i suppose if e621 ever goes against the wall because of some obscenity trial, the site hosts will look back on threads like this and wonder how things could have been. but then it would be cited for about a million counts of copyright infringement, so who knows?

The chance of any piece of furry artwork being the cause or reason for a fascist uprising is zero. The mere insistence that the existence or spread of nazi furry artwork is going to have any sort of impact on the political views and beliefs of any given individual is ridiculous. Censorship does not help anybody, ever. Probation hasn't helped stop alcoholism, the war on drugs hasn't stopped drug consumption, the ban on nazis in Germany hasn't stopped the existence of nazis either. It simply doesn't work.

It isn't, and shouldn't be, the job of any sort of government or company to curate what information, literary works, or illustrative works you have access to. It should always be in the hands of the common person that they are allowed to access what they wish to access, for any reason they want to. Of course, if a company wishes to focus on something specific then obviously that's their right to do, and the costumers who wish to partake in this are allowed to do so. But under no circumstances should those people be allowed to force their views unto other people.
You simply don't prohibit an adult from eating a steak just because an infant can't eat it.

Also, who gets to decide what is tasteless content? Is it you? What if we let Whitekitten decide what is tasteless content and what isn't? With our solution the one person to decide is you, and everybody else decides for themselves as well.

As for the obscenity trials. We'll die standing if need be; if you'd prefer to duck and kneel then that is on you.

Was considering a Nazi Knotty commission before this whole shitshow started.

Knotzi

The Streisand Effect would result. It didn't work when the USSR tried it either, and yes, I do mean with Nazis specifically. Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. You either know a terrible past event, or create a terrible future event.

NotMeNotYou said:
Probation hasn't helped stop alcoholism, the war on drugs hasn't stopped drug consumption, the ban on nazis in Germany hasn't stopped the existence of nazis either. It simply doesn't work.

actually, American prohibition decreased alcohol consumption by 50% and dramatically reduced crimes and deaths related to alcohol. the countries of Singapore and Japan has some of the lowest drug use rates in the world thanks to zero-tolerance policies. and the post-World War II denazification policies did have a significant short-term effect on removing that party from power, even if its overall effectiveness was doubtful.

sometimes censorship does work. but perhaps it would be best to codify your ideals into a policy page as opposed to a forum post, so it would have more impact.

fewrahuxo said:
actually, American prohibition decreased alcohol consumption by 50% and dramatically reduced crimes and deaths related to alcohol. the countries of Singapore and Japan has some of the lowest drug use rates in the world thanks to zero-tolerance policies. and the post-World War II denazification policies did have a significant short-term effect on removing that party from power, even if its overall effectiveness was doubtful.

sometimes censorship does work. but perhaps it would be best to codify your ideals into a policy page as opposed to a forum post, so it would have more impact.

Acquiring digital images is a lot easier than acquiring an illegal substance though.

Read: virtually impossible to stop.

Most of these Nazi fanboys are just edgy teenagers going through a dumb phase and it's not about their ideology so much as how "badass" they were— an observation usually based entirely on how they dressed, or maybe blind contrarianism (same with the communist wannabes). They are nothing to worry about and furries are probably the most ineffectual group on the planet by default, let alone when they're being ostracized by other furries.

This is the kind of thing I don't think we really want to get into.

Furrin_Gok said:
If anybody doesn't want to see them, they can blacklist it.

This.

Azula_Arktandr said:
Some people have a fetish for the Nazi uniform. I don't like it at all, but can understand how some people would. And it IS mostly about the uniform; I've almost never seen a piece of furry art involving Nazi uniforms where Nazi views and ideology are actually preached. People can enjoy the aesthetic of something without subscribing to the deeper ideas that said thing represents.

This.

And this.

fewrahuxo said:
considering the state of the world where fascism is a credible threat to multiple world governments, including the United States being run by a demagogue with little oversight, i would appreciate it if the concerns of original poster RainW was taken a little more seriously as opposed to having their idea be considered immediately silly. reminds me of high school, honestly.

JFC! Not this shit please..

Do you know how many people openly support or call for some type of full on communism? (and i'm not just talking communism-lite and socialism) In school, on campus, in forums, on social media etc. And i have yet to see serious discussion/action on the idea that we need to worry about that. (well not in the last 50+ years at least.) And we actually HAVE multiple world governments that are communist already.. (Not just the old "party/people i don't like or agree with got to power, so they must all be Nazis!".. or in this case, "said mean things so they must all be Nazis!")

fewrahuxo said:
actually, American prohibition decreased alcohol consumption by 50% and dramatically reduced crimes and deaths related to alcohol. the countries of Singapore and Japan has some of the lowest drug use rates in the world thanks to zero-tolerance policies. and the post-World War II denazification policies did have a significant short-term effect on removing that party from power, even if its overall effectiveness was doubtful.

sometimes censorship does work. but perhaps it would be best to codify your ideals into a policy page as opposed to a forum post, so it would have more impact.

50% reduction in consumption we know about and could document. The dark percentage we don't know about is estimated to be much higher. And the nazi decrease happened because of the war crime trials, loss of property, and the associated death penalty if found guilty. The "resurgence" of Nazis in Germany is purely in the official statistics only because people are willing to publicly acknowledge it again. During those policies they just kept their faces shut but still gave their values and ideals to their kids. Those kids are now adults with their own kids, who are now running for political parties like the NPD and AFD. The equivalent of this is slapping on a band aid over a festering wound and taking some pain meds. In the short term it's gone, but it's not a solution that will actually solve the problem properly.
If you want to solve something like this you need to properly educate people and have them engage in open and honest debate. If you shut people out they will just form their own echo chambers someplace else and continue there.

Just for the record, I grew up in Germany, and I still live there. We have censorship in all media because of this pointless "We need to protect the children" mantra. It doesn't work. Any form of censorship has been bypassed within a few hours of their implementation. Banned games, books, and movies are imported from Austria at a 5% markup thanks to shipping fees (or just bought on a vacation there because it's right around the corner), Youtube censorship bypass software has an entire market dedicated to it, VPNs reign supreme.

NotMeNotYou said:
If you want to solve something like this you need to properly educate people and have them engage in open and honest debate. If you shut people out they will just form their own echo chambers someplace else and continue there.

anybody willing to change their discriminatory minds is a minority of a minority. i have found the best approach to combating fascism is a zero-tolerance approach on both a cultural and legal level, where the people know it is only polite to, you know, not be a fascist, and hate any implication of the idea would be met with overwhelming resistance.

combining that culture into hate speech laws that punish without censoring seems to have a net positive effect on making everybody nice and happy. the only country i can think of that fits both this cultural and legal description would be Canada, perhaps because of its overwhelming immigration.

i appreciate much greater these insightful opinions over your previous defensive ones.

Not true. Turns out if you treat people as people, instead of just "the enemy" they are a great deal more willing to rethink their beliefs.

So shut down the people and views you don't like then? Ok, let's see how this sounds.

fewrahuxo said:
anybody willing to change their discriminatory minds is a minority of a minority. i have found the best approach to combating communism/socialism is a zero-tolerance approach on both a cultural and legal level, where the people know it is only polite to, you know, not be a communist/socialist, and hate any implication of the idea would be met with overwhelming resistance.

Maybe next we should do islam, or christianity, or capitalism, or globalism, or environmentalism or maybe feminism.

aurel said:
@Drkfce0 Just want to note that some of socialist authors have mentioned how sudden revolution in russia turned out to be, even most enthusiastic revolutionaries did not expect it so fast and so strong. Especially so soon after defeat of previous minor revolt.
That, together with the fact that we are just about to be due for another market crash, makes current political situation in US and EU concerning encouraging :3
Also, with texts easy to access, all theory is provided, so dont turn them down just yet.

Though, with current numbers, actually capturing political power is near impossible, they will continue to be a common sight in the following years.

I wasn't trying to make an actual argument about any of those things.. I was just making a point. Thanks for the reply though.

Drkfce0 said:
Maybe next we should do islam, or christianity, or capitalism, or globalism, or environmentalism or maybe feminism.

The next step is to ban furry images because I might potentially be offended when I log on E6. All the images actually, it's the only way to be sure we don't hurt anyones feels.

It's a slippery slope that we don't need to approach. Censorship is awful.

WaffleDragon said:
The next step is to ban furry images because I might potentially be offended when I log on E6. All the images actually, it's the only way to be sure we don't hurt anyones feels.

http://harmful.cat-v.org/pc.jpg

I'm not sure why anyone would want to ban Nazi-related posts from this site. Associating Nazism with female domination and Nazi-uniformed furry anthros doesn't do anything helpful for the actual ideology.

Nazi uniform fetishism has more to do with BDSM or WW2/German imagery than neo-Nazism.

post #710895

fewrahuxo said:
anybody willing to change their discriminatory minds is a minority of a minority. i have found the best approach to combating fascism is a zero-tolerance approach on both a cultural and legal level, where the people know it is only polite to, you know, not be a fascist, and hate any implication of the idea would be met with overwhelming resistance.

combining that culture into hate speech laws that punish without censoring seems to have a net positive effect on making everybody nice and happy. the only country i can think of that fits both this cultural and legal description would be Canada, perhaps because of its overwhelming immigration.

i appreciate much greater these insightful opinions over your previous defensive ones.

Or things turn out double-plus ungood.

Lance_Armstrong said:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to ban Nazi-related posts from this site. Associating Nazism with female domination and Nazi-uniformed furry anthros doesn't do anything helpful for the actual ideology.

Nazi uniform fetishism has more to do with BDSM or WW2/German imagery than neo-Nazism.

post #710895

Plot twist: it's all to stop degenerates from fetishizing the reich

aurel said:
why is it white?

Because you're seeing it on a computer. If you replicated this with paints, it'd be black.

Fenrick said:
Plot twist: it's all to stop degenerates from fetishizing the reich

If that were the case, censorship is the opposite of what you want. The harder you try to keep something from people, the more desirable it becomes.

Thirtyeight said:
If that were the case, censorship is the opposite of what you want. The harder you try to keep something from people, the more desirable it becomes.

That's sort of what the Streisand Effect is. The more you censor something, the louder it gets.

Siral_Exan said:
Because you're seeing it on a computer. If you replicated this with paints, it'd be black.

If you replicated it with an office, the room number would be 101.

Drkfce0 said:
And we actually HAVE multiple world governments that are communist already..

Communism doesn't exist, just like Democracy.

In the past and the present, there were only first letters of both, second letter at best.

That's sounding suspiciously like 'oh, but that wasn't REAL communism ' to me.

Just because a system was implemented halfassedly by flawed human beings doesn't mean it wasn't in fact an implementation of that system. Venezuala is socialist. Soviet Russia was communist. Mao's "cultural revolution" was communist.
Expecting an complete implementation of an utopian vision in reality is simply setting impossible standards. Communism is what happens when actual human beings attempt to realise the doctrine of communism.

A lot of the Nazi imagery you see is just people shitposting or memeing. To actually think there is a rise of Nazism is just silly, it's really just a meme being pushed by the left. I'm not trying to have a political discussion, I just want to give my view of things.

First you need to understand a bit about communism and how they view society as the oppressed being controlled by the oppressors (I know it's a gross oversimplification but it gets the point across). Secondly you add the neo-Marxist academic definition of "white supremacy"

""""""White Supremacy""""""": A political, economic and cultural system in which whites overwhelmingly control power and material resources.

This how you get far left collage students calling for the end of "white supremacy" and they conflate the newspeak definition with racism (because whites are the oppressor class). They view our political system as "white supremacy" and anyone that helps perpetuate it(or is to the right of Stalin) as a "white supremacist" and/or a Nazi.

Ratte said:
wait I thought we were nazis

NotMeNotYou said:
Same here, I thought we admins were literally nazis.

You guys are more like tard wranglers.

savageorange said:
That's sounding suspiciously like 'oh, but that wasn't REAL communism ' to me.

Just because a system was implemented halfassedly by flawed human beings doesn't mean it wasn't in fact an implementation of that system. Venezuala is socialist. Soviet Russia was communist. Mao's "cultural revolution" was communist.
Expecting an complete implementation of an utopian vision in reality is simply setting impossible standards. Communism is what happens when actual human beings attempt to realise the doctrine of communism.

1+2=/=5 just like D+E=/= DEmocracy.
If someone implemented Biology and called it Math, I can't call it Math now can I? And when Biology fails we can all agree upon the fact that Math failed, right? Because it was fucking failure of implementation.

DelurC said:
1+2=/=5 just like D+E=/= DEmocracy.
If someone implemented Biology and called it Math, I can't call it Math now can I? And when Biology fails we can all agree upon the fact that Math failed, right? Because it was fucking failure of implementation.

It was the natural consequence of actually trying to implement an utopian vision. Which is itself a contradiction in terms. You can't implement a utopia, so the only possible implementations are failures. That doesn't indict it as 'not real communism'; it was much more real communism than the utopian vision it was based on.

DelurC said:
Communism doesn't exist, just like Democracy.

In the past and the present, there were only first letters of both, second letter at best.

Actually Athens was a Democracy. A terrible one, but one nonetheless. The US is a Rebublic.

savageorange said:
That's sounding suspiciously like 'oh, but that wasn't REAL communism ' to me.

Just because a system was implemented halfassedly by flawed human beings doesn't mean it wasn't in fact an implementation of that system. Venezuala is socialist. Soviet Russia was communist. Mao's "cultural revolution" was communist.
Expecting an complete implementation of an utopian vision in reality is simply setting impossible standards. Communism is what happens when actual human beings attempt to realise the doctrine of communism.

The USSR was Beaureaucratic Socialist. Socialism is what happens. It's failure to impliment Communism. Communism has no leader. The closest thing we have is Anonymous ironically.

Knotty_Curls said:
Was considering a Nazi Knotty commission before this whole shitshow started.

Knotzi

Pea Heil.

aurel said:
why is it white?

Every colour is present. You just can't see them because your brain mixes them together to form white.

savageorange said:
It was the natural consequence of actually trying to implement an utopian vision. Which is itself a contradiction in terms. You can't implement a utopia, so the only possible implementations are failures. That doesn't indict it as 'not real communism'; it was much more real communism than the utopian vision it was based on.

Ever noticed that people only use the "not real" excuse when something doesn't work? If any of the previous forms of Communism actually worked and didn't result in mass poverty and death, they wouldn't be claiming it wasn't "real communism".

ThoughtCrime said:
You guys are more like tard wranglers.

same thing

and wow this is going nowhere, let's just put this out of its misery