Aliasing bestiality → feral_sex nonferal_on_feral

Our use of "bestiality" is highly, highly idiosyncratic (being due to our restricted, but still fairly sensical definition of "feral"). In particular it leads to weirdness when things like Pokemon and Digimon are involved with each others.

This causes no end of confusion and "huh" moments.

Since bestiality is really the "supertag" for "anything_on_feral", it should really be possible to rename it to something less likely to cause confusion, all the more since using it when tagging/searching does not strictly mean what many people would expect anyway.

For example "bestiality" currently includes some, but by no mean all things tagged with pokephilia (because numerous pokemon are anthro, not feral, according to our definitions), even though I believe most people would consider pokephilia a subset of bestiality in the traditional sense.

First impression is that "feral_sex" could and would be confused for feral_on_feral.

"Feral sex" needs to be more specific, since the literal terminology can be interpreted as just two (or more) ferals having sex; or where one (or more) involved are acting (via dominance or hypnosis, etc.) like animals while having sex, read as acting like an undomesticated (feral) animal.

I think we need to start with how we're defining bestiality. Is it synonymous with the tags anthro_on_feral and human_on_feral, or is there something more that distinguishes bestiality from them?

rezi said:
I think we need to start with how we're defining bestiality. Is it synonymous with the tags anthro_on_feral and human_on_feral, or is there something more that distinguishes bestiality from them?

Bestiality covers all the X_on_feral tags except feral_on_feral.

I guess "nonferal_on_feral" is a far more straightforward translation than my first idea.

The problem with saying it's "Noneferal on feral" is that suddenly applies to Pokemon, which was your complaint.

Furrin_Gok said:
The problem with saying it's "Noneferal on feral" is that suddenly applies to Pokemon, which was your complaint.

It ALREADY applies to pokemon! anthro_on_feral is applicable to pokemon (e.g. post #1006382) no problem, at least once people are told how feral actually works. But once bestiality enters the picture is really where things break down and you get people removing anthro_on_feral (which they hadn't even noticed up til then) just to make the bestiality tag go away.

A new tag won't have the very heavy "baggage" that bestiality brings along and which is VERY hard to ignore. "Nonferal_on_feral", for example, makes it easy to just direct people to our definition of feral, instead of having to completely redefine bestiality away from its commonly understood meaning.

It seems the word bestiality holds a lot of negativity and subjectivity to it, so I think the proposed alias would be a positive change.

If we do something with the bestiality tag, I'd like to see something more general implemented such that we could have an additional tag that encompasses all inter-form sexual contact. That is, an umbrella tag for anthro_on_feral and human_on_feral (which bestiality already encompasses and I think that functionality should remain in some form), but also which would include human_on_anthro, and perhaps some other things as well.

Circeus said:
It ALREADY applies to pokemon! anthro_on_feral is applicable to pokemon (e.g. post #1006382) no problem, at least once people are told how feral actually works. But once bestiality enters the picture is really where things break down and you get people removing anthro_on_feral (which they hadn't even noticed up til then) just to make the bestiality tag go away.

A new tag won't have the very heavy "baggage" that bestiality brings along and which is VERY hard to ignore. "Nonferal_on_feral", for example, makes it easy to just direct people to our definition of feral, instead of having to completely redefine bestiality away from its commonly understood meaning.

Okay the implication needs to be gone, then.

Circeus said:
It ALREADY applies to pokemon! anthro_on_feral is applicable to pokemon (e.g. post #1006382) no problem, at least once people are told how feral actually works. But once bestiality enters the picture is really where things break down and you get people removing anthro_on_feral (which they hadn't even noticed up til then) just to make the bestiality tag go away.

A new tag won't have the very heavy "baggage" that bestiality brings along and which is VERY hard to ignore. "Nonferal_on_feral", for example, makes it easy to just direct people to our definition of feral, instead of having to completely redefine bestiality away from its commonly understood meaning.

I'm gonna be that guy here cause if you can make a case that bestiality should be removed for "negativity"

Delian said:
It seems the word bestiality holds a lot of negativity and subjectivity to it, so I think the proposed alias would be a positive change.

Well.

But uh hipocrisy and such aside. *cough cough*

Clawdragons said:
If we do something with the bestiality tag, I'd like to see something more general implemented such that we could have an additional tag that encompasses all inter-form sexual contact. That is, an umbrella tag for anthro_on_feral and human_on_feral (which bestiality already encompasses and I think that functionality should remain in some form), but also which would include human_on_anthro, and perhaps some other things as well.

Basically, if this tag is gonna work its gotta apply to all anthro/Feral art.

I don't mean to be the guy, but if we can make an argument how this should be literally removed because it offends people if something like this goes through at all but the obvious other bad tags stay then there's a serious issue here.

There's nothing wrong with the bestiality tag even, unlike some other tags its exactly for what it says on the tin, and is harmless to basically everyone.

If we're gonna hear any arguments about tags' negative connotations, I'd rather they stay on our threads about intersex terms before we run down a slippery slope to SJWs-arguing-to-change-tag-names-at-a-whim Town.

Take that as you will.

Moving on, I'm all for discussing a tag's accuracy. As Circeus pointed out, the anthro_on_feral -> bestiality implication is a problem on posts like these, where a feral pokemon has physical traits which make it anthro.

post #1006382

It makes for some interesting cases.

Unfortunately, until we can work out a compromise, we will probably continue to implicate anthro_on_feral -> bestiality based on Tag What You See; Not What You Know) guidelines. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have at the moment.

Hopefully this helps focus the discussion.

Some suggestions of mine:

• pokémon_on_pokémon ?
• Use poképhilia and digiphilia more

If a pokemon like Lucario is going down on a feral pokemon is it still anthro on feral? Its quadruped on biped but where is the line drawn on feral and anthro?

I'm sure there was a thread earlier where this was discussed in detail but.

Is a regular, non altered Lucario fucking a regular non altered eevee considered feral on anthro (or vice verse) or bestiality?

Also,
I'm all for changing a tag that has confusion or is wrong. But don't say that your argument is because of its "negative connotations" because that's pure hypocrisy.

GDelscribe said:
Basically, if this tag is gonna work its gotta apply to all anthro/Feral art.

I don't mean to be the guy, but if we can make an argument how this should be literally removed because it offends people if something like this goes through at all but the obvious other bad tags stay then there's a serious issue here.

There's nothing wrong with the bestiality tag even, unlike some other tags its exactly for what it says on the tin, and is harmless to basically everyone.

First of all, I have no problem with the bestiality tag. I think it's fine the way it is.

I was just saying that IF we were going to come up with a new name for it, I'd like that new name to enable a few umbrella tags that would be useful.

However, I should point out that you are incorrect. There are people who take umbrage with the term bestiality.

There is a lot of discussion among zoophiles for what terms are appropriate and which aren't, and bestiality is often felt to be synonymous with the worst sorts of practices - people who don't care for animals, and are just using them to "get their rocks off".

I'm not one of them, but there are definitely those who would make that argument.

Also, is it just me or are you being a major hypocrite right now? You are objecting to the idea of changing the name of tag that has negative connotations? Do I even need to explain why I'm dumbfounded right now?

Clawdragons said:
-snip-

I was trying to say it in a way that was a bit more roundabout but what I was getting at is. Its hypocritical if people sre fine with changing this tag for that reason but being violently opposed to changing other tags for the same reason that are arguably far worse.

I apologize if it came out confusingly.

I honestly am more than fine with them changing the tag for that reason. But if you're gonna do something like this for that reason it has to be acknowledged that there are other tags which have been denied changes when the same issues have been brought up for those tags.

What do we propose we change it to? We can't use zoophilia or anything of the sort cause they all sort of carry the same ingrained public meaning as bestiality does.

In my opinion, the main reason to alias this tag away would be the fact that various people will comprehend this tag in various ways, as I mentioned above, there's a lot of subjectivity to it. And the proposed nonferal_on_feral is very clear to understand.

As for the umbrella tag, how about morph_difference?

Clawdragons said:
There is a lot of discussion among zoophiles for what terms are appropriate and which aren't, and bestiality is often felt to be synonymous with the worst sorts of practices - people who don't care for animals, and are just using them to "get their rocks off".

same kind of people who prefer the term "inter-generational love"

Munkelzahn said:
same kind of people who prefer the term "inter-generational love"

Let's not go there, shall we? I have to deal with that comparison frequently enough elsewhere, I'd rather not here.

Delian said:
As for the umbrella tag, how about morph_difference?

That would work. Seems reasonable to me, anyway.

Morph_difference makes the most logical sense.

Delian said:
As for the umbrella tag, how about morph_difference?

Clawdragons said:
That would work. Seems reasonable to me, anyway.

GDelscribe said:
Morph_difference makes the most logical sense.

To stay consistent with age_difference and size_difference, that would have to include nonsexual situations.

Maxpizzle said:
To stay consistent with age_difference and size_difference, that would have to include nonsexual situations.

Is that a bad thing?

GDelscribe said:
Is that a bad thing?

Not as long as you know.

Maxpizzle said:
Not as long as you know.

since 99% of the tagging will be from the various implications instead of original tagging, I don't think that's much of a problem.

I would prefer zoophilia. It would also like bestiality/zoophilia to be exclusive to human_on_feral. Now that I mention it. Why do we even have the bestiality tag? Isn't anthro or human on feral basically the same thing?

Sorrowless said:
I would prefer zoophilia. It would also like bestiality/zoophilia to be exclusive to human_on_feral.

As was mentioned earlier, bestiality is tagged for all non-feral on feral pairings.

Bestiality or zoophilia, both seem equally out of place for anthro Pokemon on feral Pokemon etc.

Sorrowless said:
Why do we even have the bestiality tag? Isn't anthro or human on feral basically the same thing?

It is much easier to type than ~human_on_feral ~humanoid_on_feral ~anthro_on_feral, for people who don't care about the nonferal's species beyond nonferal. Or, you know, blacklisting purposes.

I'm digging the idea of pokémon_on_pokémon and morph_difference, but the bestiality tag is probably going to stay.

Imagine if somebody who knew nothing about Pokémon also had bestiality blacklisted, yet saw an anthro pokemon and a feral pokemon together. This is why TWYS exists.

animperfectpatsy said:
It is much easier to type than ~human_on_feral ~humanoid_on_feral ~anthro_on_feral, for people who don't care about the nonferal's species beyond nonferal.

Or just *_on_feral -feral_on_feral. Doesn't work in blacklists yet, though.

Don't forget feral_on_taur.

Delian said:
Don't forget feral_on_taur.

Caught with the wildcard: it's aliased with taur_on_feral.

Knotty_Curls said:
I'm digging the idea of pokémon_on_pokémon and morph_difference, but the bestiality tag is probably going to stay.

Imagine if somebody who knew nothing about Pokémon also had bestiality blacklisted, yet saw an anthro pokemon and a feral pokemon together. This is why TWYS exists.

As long as bestiality is still aliased to something, that wouldn't make a difference, would it? I mean, the watchlist works just fine with aliases, right?

Circeus said:
As long as bestiality is still aliased to something, that wouldn't make a difference, would it? I mean, the watchlist works just fine with aliases, right?

What would you alias it to?

parasprite said:
What would you alias it to?

Well, my proposal specifically for it is nonferal_on_feral. I don't think I misread the thread too much saying that no one has proposed another tag specifically to replace bestiality.

* Morph_difference is being proposed as a "supertag" that would encompass not just the bestiality subtags, but all other X_on_Y form tags.
* pokémon_on_pokémon is only a peculiar subset and would include plenty of feral_on_feral (if not only that depending on whether something like Simisage is anthro or feral to you).

Circeus said:
Well, my proposal specifically for it is nonferal_on_feral.

I like this.

Circeus said:
Well, my proposal specifically for it is nonferal_on_feral. I don't think I misread the thread too much saying that no one has proposed another tag specifically to replace bestiality.

* Morph_difference is being proposed as a "supertag" that would encompass not just the bestiality subtags, but all other X_on_Y form tags.
* pokémon_on_pokémon is only a peculiar subset and would include plenty of feral_on_feral (if not only that depending on whether something like Simisage is anthro or feral to you).

Nonferal_on_feral seems like a perfect replacement for bestiality. Fits the definition of bestiality, and it's much less contentious. Morph_difference and pokemon_on_pokemon also seem like helpful tags