TLDR:

• Sex is both an activity, and the parts involved in that activity.
• Gender is more about who's (or is implied to be) the pitcher and who's the catcher.
• A few tags and wiki pages should be updated so that we can all use precise and clear language to tag and to talk about tags.

If someone looks up gender (define:gender) they should clearly understand that the concept of gender is not one of biological form (sex), but of a type of role in society traditionally associated with a biological form (sex). That relationship is often used when trying to discuss topic of biology among 'polite' company by using the term 'gender' to reference the sexes which most commonly fit in to that social role.

On e621 'gender' should be traits unrelated to biological parts. Things like clothing, penetrated vs penetrating, and possibly activities with widely recognizable connotations of implying one role or another within a social context.

'sex' has three definitions (define:sex) of interest for this discussion:

noun 1: The activity of 'reproduction'. Officially it's only actually sex if you're trying to reproduce; not if you're just having fun.

noun 2: "either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions."
Sex is based on the reproductive functions of a subject's biology.

verb 1: "determine the sex of "sexing chickens" "

However, many of the tags on e621 do not recognize the precision of this verbiage and incorrectly use gender where they should use sex (both in name and in discussing body-parts).

• https://e621.net/wiki/show/howto:tag_genders
• https://e621.net/wiki/show/tag_group:genders
• https://e621.net/wiki/show/ambiguous_gender
• https://e621.net/wiki/show/gender_transformation
• https://e621.net/post/index?tags=gender%3Aintersex (Tag search shows 1 post but it might be admin only as it shows null set for me)
• https://e621.net/wiki/show/crossdressing (Only in the first sentence)

These appear to be using the terms sex and gender correctly:

• https://e621.net/wiki/show/gender_confusion
• https://e621.net/wiki/show/intersex

This should redirect instead to a page educating the user on the difference between gender and sex, as well as describing the policy on such tagging. (There should only be one such page, so that different sets of rules don't get out of sync.)

• https://e621.net/wiki/show/genderless_(disambiguation)

I'm just gonna bring this over because I feel like it's on topic...

e621 uses a "tag what you see" policy, it is frowned upon to "tag what you know". On e6, "gender" is used to define the physical appearance (male, female, transgender, ect.), while "sex" is used to define any sexual activity. This is used simply for tagging purposes, to help people find what they want to see or to blacklist what they don't want to see. If you can see it, you tag it accordingly, you do not tag based on aspects that do not appear in the picture itself.

I guess I could throw in a couple "Please note: We use 'gender' to denote the biological sex of characters only, we do not use it to refer to the character's identity." in strategic locations on those page to ensure newbies understand what we're saying.

1. It isn't 'incorrect' just because it doesn't honor one faction's desired fake truth

2. e621 is not an education site, it's an image library & repository

3. Can you talk like a human being?

FibS said:
3. Can you talk like a human being?

Don't be so abrasive.

NotMeNotYou said:
Don't be so abrasive.

Surely I'm not the only one who notices how completely pretentious the post is?

However, many of the tags on e621 do not recognize the precision of this verbiage

How many wedgies do you have to take to type like that?

FibS said:
Surely I'm not the only one who notices how completely pretentious the post is?
How many wedgies do you have to take to type like that?

So? Just because he likes his thesaurus more than others doesn't excuse you trying to belittle him.

I'd be more worried about his obsession with this particular topic than his choice of words.

characters do not have gender identities unless stated so therefore it's tagged by what they look like

for fucks sake this happens every single time

As someone who already uses sex and gender to mean different things, let me just say I'm still against this. We already have a sex tag for people having sex. Switching gender to sex would just make it too ambiguous whether they meant the act. Some of us have blacklisted sex as well, and this would also hide anything associated with the current gender tags.

Also, it's only sex if it's for reproduction? Sorry but no. Condoms break. People get pregnant by accident. The reproductive system doesn't stop just because you don't want a baby. The existence of the word "pedophilia" implies sex with children, a large amount of which have not gone through puberty and thus cannot reproduce. It's possible to commit rape without intending to reproduce, despite the word implying sex. In short, go back to school.

Why do people make transgender characters but then make them pre op or whatever. Isn't that basically torturing your own character, which in turn is torturing yourself since that character might be your fursona or a major part if your Immagination.

If I was transgender I'd be making all of my fursonas the sexy women that I could never be without expensive and dangerous hormone therapy

memeboy said:
Why do people make transgender characters but then make them pre op or whatever. Isn't that basically torturing your own character, which in turn is torturing yourself since that character might be your fursona or a major part if your Immagination.

If I was transgender I'd be making all of my fursonas the sexy women that I could never be without expensive and dangerous hormone therapy

To be fair, not every Fursona is a wish-fulfillment fantasy. I mean, mine has no strength due to sleep deprivation, ages more quickly due to stress (without maturing quicker), is emaciated due to a hyperactive metabolism that is GOING to kill him, is unable to heal or be resurrected due to complete magic immunity in a magical setting where magic is required for everything, and is being held against his will as a guinea pig where he is forced to live lives in alternate universes where he is doomed to have everything taken from him at the last minute, with the threat of asphyxiation (a phobia we share) of he does not comply. All of this is played for comedy.

Ketsueki said:

• Gender is more about who's (or is implied to be) the pitcher and who's the catcher.

pretty sure that's incorrect and the correct terms for such positions are "sub" and "dom".

Its really a double edged sword, on the one hand using sex to identify the biological genitalia would be problematic because sex is at present reserved for the act rather then the identification and would lead to both forms being mixed, on the other hand using gender leads to mistaging by people thinking it holds the common dictionary definition of what characters identify themselves as rather then whats visible. Dont personally like it but the latter is the lesser of 2 evils.

I'm pointing out that Gender is largely something that should not be tagged on e621. It is very difficult to 'see' and extremely subjective.

Instead tag sex which can be determined to a known degree from observations. Gender is only of importance because people are mistakenly using an implied meaning of a term that should be used for other things.

Further, 'tagging genders' sounds like it is about the primary meaning of the term. Not at all about recording which set of biological parts are visible in a given subject.

Your problem is not us tagging gender instead of biological sex because we do tag biological sex as best as possible. Your problem is us using the word gender instead of biological sex. You are conducting a war on words just because you don't like the fact that we and a very large percentage of people online and IRL use the word gender as a synonym for biological sex and have done so for a very long time. Get over yourself.

Ketsueki said:
I'm pointing out that Gender is largely something that should not be tagged on e621. It is very difficult to 'see' and extremely subjective.

Instead tag sex which can be determined to a known degree from observations. Gender is only of importance because people are mistakenly using an implied meaning of a term that should be used for other things.

Further, 'tagging genders' sounds like it is about the primary meaning of the term. Not at all about recording which set of biological parts are visible in a given subject.

Well too bad

it's not gonna change, you do know that right?

Honestly I'd be in support of changing the terminology used if it can prevent people tagging their uploads wrongly.

Ketsueki said:
Instead tag sex which can be determined to a known degree from observations. Gender is only of importance because people are mistakenly using an implied meaning of a term that should be used for other things.

As a cisgendered male who is frequently mistaken for female, I can tell you that, no, it can not.

And sex is already a tag. It's for pictures where a group of characters are having sex. Big surprise there.[/sarcasm]

And before you claim I don't know the meaning, I use gender to refer to identity. I just don't agree that this site should as well.

Tuvalu said:
Honestly I'd be in support of changing the terminology used if it can prevent people tagging their uploads wrongly.

Basically why I've brought this issue up in the past and then done nothing further: I'm not really sure what difference it will make in a practical sense.

Lets just all agree that there are only two genders

kimjoy said:
Lets just all agree that there are only two genders

no

kimjoy said:
Lets just all agree that there are only two genders

Actually Intersex does exist.

kimjoy said:
Lets just all agree that there are only two genders

I'd rather agree to stop trying to tag almost everything about gender. There are some other tags (cross-dressing comes to mind) that can be added based on clearly observed elements within a picture, but nearly any tag related to gender is going to be based more on opinion than fact. It is therefore very difficult to determine what would be reasonable to believe someone else might see aside from everything.

kamimatsu said:
Actually Intersex does exist.

Intersex isn't a third gender. It's a defective mix of the two.

BlueDingo said:
Intersex isn't a third gender. It's a defective mix of the two.

And 0.5 is between 1 and 0. Doesn't mean it isn't a number.

BlueDingo said:
Intersex isn't a third gender. It's a defective mix of the two.

In terms of binary, that's impossible. As such, we have to insert a third number, and at that point we may as well consider it its own thing, since in trinary it's its own number.

Ketsueki said:
I'd rather agree to stop trying to tag almost everything about gender. There are some other tags (cross-dressing comes to mind) that can be added based on clearly observed elements within a picture, but nearly any tag related to gender is going to be based more on opinion than fact. It is therefore very difficult to determine what would be reasonable to believe someone else might see aside from everything.

No, because we don't tag by identity. We tag what we see. It's a fact that the tag was what was seen.

kamimatsu said:
And 0.5 is between 1 and 0. Doesn't mean it isn't a number.

It's not a whole number.

BlueDingo said:
It's not a whole number.

Good thing I said "number" and not "whole number".

sex literally is not binary. its a spectrum. no matter what methods you use to inspect the concept of sex, you will notice that there will always be a whole fuckton of people who do not fit strictly to neither of the categories. hormone amounts, chromosomes, secondary sexual characteristics, genitals, everything. literally none of these things cannot be strictly shoved into two boxes because there will always be a considerable amount of people who do fit to the binary. if you use all of the things i listed there to define sex at the same time, there will be even less people who fit to whatever you define as female and whatever you define as male.

What spectrum? A male is a living thing that produces male gametes. A female is a living thing that produces female gametes. Chromosomes directly determine this, you will never find a 46XX male or a 46XY female. Hormone amounts and secondary sexual characteristics are irrelevant and can be modified by external means.

BlueDingo said:
What spectrum? A male is a living thing that produces male gametes. A female is a living thing that produces female gametes. Chromosomes directly determine this, you will never find a 46XX male or a 46XY female. Hormone amounts and secondary sexual characteristics are irrelevant and can be modified by external means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

edit: also XXX, XXY and XYY are also possible. sex is not a binary even if you look at chromosomes.

Mutisija said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

edit: also XXX, XXY and XYY are also possible. sex is not a binary even if you look at chromosomes.

Extremely rare genetic screwups =/= spectrum. Things go wrong. The result of things going wrong don't suddenly become valid options just because they have a <0.1% chance of happening. By that logic, the number of arms on a human body is a spectrum because some people are born with only one.

Next you'll be telling me that the number of wheels on a car is a spectrum just because the Reliant Robin exists.

BlueDingo said:
Extremely rare genetic screwups =/= spectrum. Things go wrong. The result of things going wrong don't suddenly become valid options just because they a 0.01% chance of happening.

no, you have to understand that cannot categorize people into two boxes when some do not fit to them. even if they are uncommon, they are still real existing human beings and do not fit to the binary. the fact that some humans do not fit literally means its a spectrum and not binary.

BlueDingo said:
Next you'll be telling me that the number of wheels on a car is a spectrum just because the Reliant Robin exists.

lmao what you are doing here is that you are claiming that all cars have 4 wheels. but when someone points out cars with different amount of wheels, you say that they are just rare fuck ups that should not be considered while considering if all cars have 4 wheels.

Mutisija said:
no, you have to understand that cannot categorize people into two boxes when some do not fit to them. even if they are uncommon, they are still real existing human beings and do not fit to the binary. the fact that some humans do not fit literally means its a spectrum and not binary.

Like I said, extremely rare genetic screwups =/= spectrum. You don't give the mistake a category then consider that category equally as valid as the others when the mistake is not supposed to happen at all. Things go wrong in nature all the time but none of them are evidence of spectrums. Babies can be born with missing limb, but that doesn't mean the number of limbs on a baby is a spectrum. Snakes are sometimes born with two heads, but that doesn't mean the number of heads on a snake are a spectrum. Mistake =/= new gender or spectrum.

Thankfully our tagging system is used to describe fantastical beings and thus doesn't give a fuck about real life percentages.

Which means your discussion is off-topic for this thread.

You know the phrase "pick your battles?" This is a battle you shouldn't pick.

Mutisija said:
sex literally is not binary. its a spectrum.

Reality: Male & Female.
Furry Tags: Male, Female, Cuntboy, Dickgirl, Ambiguous.
Mental Issued Human Being: 72+ Different Genders.

Honestly even most Transgendered people know there are just two genders, a trans is someone who is going from one to the other and identify as the other. Are we really gonna change how we do things because less than .01% of the population don't identify as either gender.

Sexuality I can see as a spectrum but not Gender.

kimjoy said:
Reality: Male & Female.
Furry Tags: Male, Female, Cuntboy, Dickgirl, Ambiguous.
Mental Issued Human Being: 72+ Different Genders.

Honestly even most Transgendered people know there are just two genders, a trans is someone who is going from one to the other and identify as the other.

Sexuality I can see as a spectrum but not Gender.

You're still forgetting intersex. Also, not all Transgenders change their sex, and some can't either due to it not being static or not existing at all. While there are a lot of genders that really are just Tumblr being Tumblr (Autism is NOT a gender), that doesn't mean all of them are.

We used to think the same thing about sexuality, and that everyone either liked boys or girls. Before that, we thought Homosexuality was a mental illness.

kamimatsu said:
You're still forgetting intersex.

Cuntboy, and Dickgirl are intersex as are herms.

not all Transgenders change their sex, and some can't either due to it not being static or not existing at all.

o_O what does that even mean?

While there are a lot of genders that really are just Tumblr being Tumblr (Autism is NOT a gender), that doesn't mean all of them are.

so...less than 10% of genders aren't tumblr made genders and are real? (93+ and that's just counting to the letter D here. i wonder if theres a newer list somewhwere.)

We used to think the same thing about sexuality, and that everyone either liked boys or girls. Before that, we thought Homosexuality was a mental illness.

same for sexuality.

kimjoy said:
Mental Issued Human Being: 72+ Different Genders.

at this point it's probably more like 200+ each for both genders AND sexualities. but of course, that's mostly counting the fake ones from tumblr.

kamimatsu said:
You're still forgetting intersex. Also, not all Transgenders change their sex, and some can't either due to it not being static or not existing at all. While there are a lot of genders that really are just Tumblr being Tumblr (Autism is NOT a gender), that doesn't mean all of them are.

We used to think the same thing about sexuality, and that everyone either liked boys or girls. Before that, we thought Homosexuality was a mental illness.

I didn't count intersex because it's not really a gender but a defect however I do aknolage it's existence. I can't take any of the Non-gender, bi-gender and whatnot people seriously because just about all of them are just doing if for attention. You can tell by the way they dress and do their hair and stuff like bright pink or neon hair, piercings, and lack of effort in trying to be the gender they say they are.

Eventually they'll grow out of it or just be ignored by the rest of us sane people, I'm just glad that it seems like all this SJW crap is dying.

kimjoy said:
I didn't count intersex because it's not really a gender but a defect however I do aknolage it's existence. I can't take any of the Non-gender, bi-gender and whatnot people seriously because just about all of them are just doing if for attention. You can tell by the way they dress and do their hair and stuff like bright pink or neon hair, piercings, and lack of effort in trying to be the gender they say they are.

Eventually they'll grow out of it or just be ignored by the rest of us sane people, I'm just glad that it seems like all this SJW crap is dying.

A lot of people do it for attention, but there are plenty of people who don't. I personally know someone who is gender-fluid and hates attention, to the point that only their closest friends know. Not even their family knows.

And as for the way they dress or do their hair, that really doesn't make sense to me. I've been known to have similar mannerisms to a stereotypical woman, to the point of being mistaken for a woman (or trans male after I grew the beard), yet I'm still not transgender. I'm just a cisgendered male who happens to have certain mannerisms considered feminine.

I never liked when people assumed everyone did whatever they were doing for attention. That was what they said about my Autism, my sexual orientation, and my Autophobia, but I don't like attention. I like acknowledgement, but I hate attention.

treos said:
same for sexuality.

Gonna have to stop you right there. People can go both ways, and I doubt even on this site that I'm the only one who doesn't go any way.

kamimatsu said:
No, because we don't tag by identity. We tag what we see. It's a fact that the tag was what was seen.

You've clearly got the terms BACKWARDS then.

Gender == identity.

Sex == observed.

That is LITERALLY the dictionary definition of the words. Any other use is misuse (technically, identity is the primary meaning of 'gender' and it implies sex, but we're willing to SAY sex, so sex should be distinct and gender shouldn't mean sex).

Ketsueki said:
You've clearly got the terms BACKWARDS then.

Gender == identity.

Sex == observed.

That is LITERALLY the dictionary definition of the words. Any other use is misuse (technically, identity is the primary meaning of 'gender' and it implies sex, but we're willing to SAY sex, so sex should be distinct and gender shouldn't mean sex).

Using sex would be confusing with all of our sex act tags.
Get over it.

Ketsueki said:
You've clearly got the terms BACKWARDS then.

Gender == identity.

Sex == observed.

That is LITERALLY the dictionary definition of the words. Any other use is misuse (technically, identity is the primary meaning of 'gender' and it implies sex, but we're willing to SAY sex, so sex should be distinct and gender shouldn't mean sex).

You've clearly got the terms backwards, then.
Sex is the act of placing one's genitals into another's body, using the word "into" loosely.
Gender is the physical body possessed by the character.

Before you go arguing what words mean, take a look at our dictionary. We have our own definitions for these tags that have been in place for years.

kamimatsu said:
Gonna have to stop you right there. People can go both ways, and I doubt even on this site that I'm the only one who doesn't go any way.

o_O wha...? rereading it, i think i messed up that part of my post there. i think i meant to remove that "We used to think the same thing about sexuality" bit but forgot to or something.

i'm well aware of there being straight, bi, and gay (of which i am), but with tumblr theres easily like 70-200+ others that aren't even real.

treos said:
o_O wha...? rereading it, i think i messed up that part of my post there. i think i meant to remove that "We used to think the same thing about sexuality" bit but forgot to or something.

i'm well aware of there being straight, bi, and gay (of which i am), but with tumblr theres easily like 70-200+ others that aren't even real.

That's true. There are made up ones just like with genders, but even with Sturgeon's Law applied, just because 99% of them are bullshit, that doesn't mean all of it is. I know a lot of it is made up, since they actually listed Autism as a gender. But I think of it this way: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

kamimatsu said:
But I think of it this way: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

Unless the timing mechanism is broken and it's running super fast. Then all bets are off.

Ketsueki said:
You've clearly got the terms BACKWARDS then.

Gender == identity.

Sex == observed.

That is LITERALLY the dictionary definition of the words. Any other use is misuse (technically, identity is the primary meaning of 'gender' and it implies sex, but we're willing to SAY sex, so sex should be distinct and gender shouldn't mean sex).

You can't "observe" identity. As much as people would be offended by us assuming the gender and sex match until told otherwise for each person, the alternative is to assume every male who "looks female" and every female who "looks male" must be transgender. That. Does not. Make. Sense.

parasprite said:
Unless the timing mechanism is broken and it's running super fast. Then all bets are off.

Depends. If it's always off by the same time, then yes, all bets are off. If it's ticking too fast or too slow, then I may still be wrong about it being right twice a day, but the semi-daily accuracy would just be replaced with a different frequency of accuracy, and if it's faster, it would be accurate for a shorter period of time than the usual 60 seconds.

On the plus side, if it's the former and the owner knows basic addition and subtraction (It's safe to assume we all do, since our ability to use the tagging system implies at least Boolean algebra) then its precision (not accuracy though) is enough to give us the information we need anyway, like a person telling you they won't tell you about INSERT_SPECIFIC_EVENT_HERE.

My point is, although Tumblr is wrong most of the time, there are rare cases where they happen to be correct about a particular instance, and even idiots are capable of getting something right once in a while. I don't think you should automatically consider it just because of that. I just think you shouldn't dismiss it either.

tl;dr version: Clock-owners can learn math and people can be right for the wrong reasons.

Can't believe I'm about to throw my hat into this fucked up little ring.

I also can't believe this conversation has gone on for two pages (as of time of writing)

This conversation should start and end like this: (Put into a "section" to prevent text wall)

But ignoring all that. I'm not sure why the mods didn't just say "We tag the physical gender of a character. Whatever sexual organs they have is what their gender is discussion over" and locked the page. If we spent even 10 seconds re-tagging every single picture based on your delusional fantasy genders we'd be here for over 6,800 years. Also no one would be able to find the type of body they want to see because they'd type in "male" and wind up with 800 pictures of females with butch body types scissoring other females yelling "but I'm a real boy!"

Tagging is about brass tacks...you can't know what a character thinks or feels most of the time unless there is a literal thought bubble coming out of their head that reads "I am X gender". Even then it's about what people want to see. If I type in "female"...I want to see the typical physical representation of a female. I don't want to see a man who thinks he is female, or a "female" with a giant dick, or anything like that. I assume people who prefer males/herms/whatever feel the same way.

When it comes to the physical appearance of characters I think the tags cover it quite well and there's really no reason to change, and how the characters feel shouldn't be part of the equation because it is literally unknowable 99.9% of the time.

Dyrone said:
Tagging is about brass tacks...you can't know what a character thinks or feels most of the time unless there is a literal thought bubble coming out of their head that reads "I am X gender". Even then it's about what people want to see. If I type in "female"...I want to see the typical physical representation of a female. I don't want to see a man who thinks he is female, or a "female" with a giant dick, or anything like that. I assume people who prefer males/herms/whatever feel the same way.

When it comes to the physical appearance of characters I think the tags cover it quite well and there's really no reason to change, and how the characters feel shouldn't be part of the equation because it is literally unknowable 99.9% of the time.

Cynosure said:
Can't believe I'm about to throw my hat into this fucked up little ring.

I also can't believe this conversation has gone on for two pages (as of time of writing)

This conversation should start and end like this: (Put into a "section" to prevent text wall)

"I think we should tag peoples delusional fantasy genders" says person #23446

"I'm not going to tag a guy, who has a huge set of balls and a dick with no breasts as a female. He's not a female, females do not have dicks." says person #4888

"Gender is a spectrum" says person #23446

"No it isn't, you either have a penis and you're a male. Or you have a vagina and you're a female. Tags stay the way they are" says person #4888

You can make arguments that people (and I'm not sure if some of these body types actually exist, and I won't google it because I'm afraid of what I'll find) such as: "futas" - "dickgirls" - "Cuntboys" but all of these still fall under two basic descriptions (Except futa more on that later)

if you're a "dickgirl" (Dick+breasts) then you're a male with breasts. You have a penis, your reproductive organ is a penis. Therefore you are male.

if you're a "Cuntboy" (Vagina+flat chest/no breasts) then you're a female with no breasts. You have a vagina, your reproductive organ is a vagina.

IF you're a "futa" (vagina+dick+breasts) then the only term we can use is "futa" because both reproductive organs exist on the same person. Technically I'm not sure if this is possible. But I know that if both organs existed on a single person, only ONE would be functional maybe even neither so the argument could be made that their gender is whatever organ is functional. (making them male/female based on which organ works for reproduction)

But ignoring all that. I'm not sure why the mods didn't just say "We tag the physical gender of a character. Whatever sexual organs they have is what their gender is discussion over" and locked the page. If we spent even 10 seconds re-tagging every single picture based on your delusional fantasy genders we'd be here for over 6,800 years. Also no one would be able to find the type of body they want to see because they'd type in "male" and wind up with 800 pictures of females with butch body types scissoring other females yelling "but I'm a real boy!"

you both are missing the point of this topic.

op was talking about how we refer character's physical features as gender on this site and that it can be misleading and confusing since gender is person's own experience of their identity. op suggested to refer it as sex instead of gender so people would understand better that we are talking about the physical traits here. referring it as gender instead of sex in tag wiki pages and such might give new users the idea that its okay to tag what the character's gender identity is.

Mutisija said:
you both are missing the point of this topic.

op was talking about how we refer character's physical features as gender on this site and that it can be misleading and confusing since gender is person's own experience of their identity. op suggested to refer it as sex instead of gender so people would understand better that we are talking about the physical traits here. referring it as gender instead of sex in tag wiki pages and such might give new users the idea that its okay to tag what the character's gender identity is.

Then what would we tag pictures where a group of two or more are engaging in sex? It's far easier to correct the occasional mistake on a gender tag than having to sort through everything tagged "sex" just to see if it has sex in it. Hell, I have it blacklisted, so I would be prevented from completely safe images of trans characters.

tl;dr version: It solves nothing. Using sex instead of gender only trades an uphill climb for a mountain climb with no harness.

Ok I'm gonna add my last word on the subject. The gender tags are to help us find what we want. It doesn't matter what the character or artist thinks if you can see a vagina or penis they're male or female. If you can only see boobs and the character looks feminine in the image assume it's female for those who want to see it. If you can't see either but the character clearly looks feminine or masculine add the one that looks most like the character and ambiguous again for those who want to find this image.

For example this image post #542829 is clearly female/female but since you can't see the characters genitalia it's ambiguous. To add insult to injury there's a tag with Male/Female, are you kidding me? The artists draws mainly females and the character looks like a woman with the hairstyle and the feminine features drawn on her face and it's male/female? It sucks for someone searching for female/female animated images and won't find this one. If it looks female but not sure add both female and ambiguous to help people find the image.

2nd paragraph is a rant but I'm still butthurt about it 2 years later.

kimjoy said:
Ok I'm gonna add my last word on the subject. The gender tags are to help us find what we want. It doesn't matter what the character or artist thinks if you can see a vagina or penis they're male or female. If you can only see boobs and the character looks feminine in the image assume it's female for those who want to see it. If you can't see either but the character clearly looks feminine or masculine add the one that looks most like the character and ambiguous again for those who want to find this image.

For example this image post #542829 is clearly female/female but since you can't see the characters genitalia it's ambiguous. To add insult to injury there's a tag with Male/Female, are you kidding me? The artists draws mainly females and the character looks like a woman with the hairstyle and the feminine features drawn on her face and it's male/female? It sucks for someone searching for female/female animated images and won't find this one. If it looks female but not sure add both female and ambiguous to help people find the image.

2nd paragraph is a rant but I'm still butthurt about it 2 years later.

men can't have a ponytail? i see vagina, anus, and someone with a ponytail + flat chest thus it is clearly male/female in that post according to TWYS (maybe if the guy on the right had feminine eyelashes i might have doubted his gender but he doesn't have them). or do you know the genitals of the flat chested character?

treos said:
men can't have a ponytail? i see vagina, anus, and someone with a ponytail + flat chest thus it is clearly male/female in that post according to TWYS (maybe if the guy on the right had feminine eyelashes i might have doubted his gender but he doesn't have them). or do you know the genitals of the flat chested character?

Definitely agree that grey one's a guy.

Furrin_Gok said:
Definitely agree that grey one's a guy.

Upon doing further research it seems that the other character is in fact male. post #86811

Looks so feminine in the other picture though. Oh well at least I have proof other than flat chest.

kimjoy said:
Upon doing further research it seems that the other character is in fact male. post #86811

Looks so feminine in the other picture though. Oh well at least I have proof other than flat chest.

You do not use external knowledge in tagging, including other posts. The one you linked prior is only relevant to itself, and the one you linked now is not relevant.

kimjoy said:
Upon doing further research it seems that the other character is in fact male. post #86811

Looks so feminine in the other picture though. Oh well at least I have proof other than flat chest.

As Siral said, that new image does not apply to it. The guy does not really look feminine to me, he just has actual eyelashes and a ponytail. Long eyelashes would be feminine, but eyelashes in general, are not.

*a tear of joy emerges from the corner of my eye*
"Someone gets it."
*suddenly remembers how terrible some individuals are*
"Welp i just made a mistake by commenting"

I feel like you are just attempting to add complexity to this system. Why add "millions of tags because there are infinite genders" when we can just assume their genders to begin with?