Believe it or not, we are allowed to talk about this. A few conditions, though:

• All rules still apply.
• Keep discussion civil. No insults, no matter who it is.
• Absolutely no calls for doxxing. Not even the hint of it.
• Cub apologists and anti-cub users alike, I understand that you are passionate about your respective stance. However, this is not the place to discuss whether or not cub art should be acceptable. This thread revolves around real life, underage swimsuit models and yet-to-be-confirmed "petite" pornstars being referenced for Zaush's porn. We are past the point of fantasy and rumors.

I'm already bracing myself for the number of users who will ignore all of these conditions. I will be actively monitoring this thread.

That being said:

What we know

(last updated Thursday, March 8th, 2018)

• An anonymous person found an iPad with a Telegram conversation between Zaush and CobaltDawg. In it, they discuss a commission with very colorful language and share pictures for reference. A censored version of the leak, along with a screencap of Zaush's apology, can be found here: [1] [2]
• A majority of the photos are of pre-teen girls in swimsuits. As far as I know, not all females in the explicit photos have their ages verified.
• Choice quote: "12 is kinda the lowest you can go and still have any semblance of something fuckable"
• Monday, March 5th, 2018 Zaush confirms that these leaked pictures are real in his apology.
• Screencap of Zaush's FA shoutbox before being purged. His shoutbox has since been disabled. This is an admin-only feature on FA.
• There is no apology or even a mention of this anywhere on his FA profile.
• Unless there are areas only available to logged-in users, there are no recent mentions of Zaush on FA Forums.
• Attempts to report Zaush's cub comics on FA are unsuccessful. Again. And again.
• This in spite of Zaush's admission that his character's age and appearance was retconned out of the 5th grade (screencap)

More can be found on KiwiFarms. View at your own risk.

What can we do?

• Spread the word. I know that there are many people who think that nothing is going to happen, that this is just going to be swept under the rug and forgotten like every other allegation. Since this has been verified by Zaush, I personally doubt that.
• BE TACTFUL.
• I'm assuming the proper authorities have been tipped. Need confirmation.
• Report his Patreon with links to the uncensored, leaked photos AND his confirmation that they are not doctored.
• FA is NOT to be trusted.
• I don't know if anybody has attempted to go over FA's head and contact IMVU, but I'm assuming IMVU has already been tipped off in some way. Wouldn't hurt to try and get confirmation.

''Spread the word. I know that there are many people who think that nothing is going to happen, that this is just going to be swept under the rug and forgotten like every other allegation. Since this has been verified by Zaush, I personally doubt that.
BE TACTFUL.
I'm assuming the proper authorities have been tipped. Need confirmation.
Report his Patreon with links to the uncensored, leaked photos AND his confirmation that they are not doctored.
FA is NOT to be trusted.
I don't know if anybody has attempted to go over FA's head and contact IMVU, but I'm assuming IMVU has already been tipped off in some way. Wouldn't hurt to try and get confirmation.''

This seems reasonable enough. In such cases, a community really should police itself to keep harmful influences from damaging the whole. Aside from that we can take a strong stance against such matters (though it will probably only push such things into the shadows and not really eliminate the issue - stronger stuff is needed for that).

On a side note, what kind of a reckless (to not use a more heavy-handed term) person you have to be to discuss sh*t like that on a device in a public setting, regardless of weather you are prone to loosing stuff or not.

I am mentioning this both out of ''admiration'' towards criminal stupidity, which never fails to amaze me, and also as a caution to others not engaging in such behavior but with similar practices regarding viewing content in public.

It only takes one idiot finding your tablet/smartphone/public pc with a shapely looking nude fox-woman or an attractive wolf-guy, making a photo of it and posting it on FB (or telling other people) for your social life to be at best severely impacted in a negative way.

Lando said:
Good points... but, if God didn't want kids to be fuckable, why did he make them so hot?

There is a time and a place.

I already had zaush blacklisted months back, I don't even remember why but I hardly ever blacklist artists so he must've done something pretty disagreeable. This new stuff is disgusting though, I think it's fair to say I don't want this guy to continue being so popular in the furry community after such a huge event like this. Gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere.

Lando said:
Good points... but, if God didn't want kids to be fuckable, why did he make them so hot?

Is talk like this really allowed on this website without being reprimanded? The message doesn't even say "cubs" or anything, just straight up kids. I'd chalk it up to a bad joke but their favorites imply differently.

Sure. Report it.

I wonder how long will it take for KiwiFarms userbase to dox Zaush and send a S.W.A.T. team to his house, since that's something they usually do.

Knotty_Curls said:

• FA is NOT to be trusted.
• I don't know if anybody has attempted to go over FA's head and contact IMVU, but I'm assuming IMVU has already been tipped off in some way. Wouldn't hurt to try and get confirmation.

Excuse my ignorance, I don't take part in the majority of furry things, but why would Fur Affinity be pro-Zaush? Is he an administrator on there? Otherwise, I don't see why such a large furry website would be so willing to defend a potential predator.

MissChu said:
Excuse my ignorance, I don't take part in the majority of furry things, but why would Fur Affinity be pro-Zaush? Is he an administrator on there? Otherwise, I don't see why such a large furry website would be so willing to defend a potential predator.

He's popular and was (at least at one point) an admin.

MissChu said:
Excuse my ignorance, I don't take part in the majority of furry things, but why would Fur Affinity be pro-Zaush? Is he an administrator on there? Otherwise, I don't see why such a large furry website would be so willing to defend a potential predator.

There's tenuous evidence of FA covering for previous allegations and other, similar behavior. But do consider the source, the means of getting the material, and the potential bias.

randomguy85 said:
I wonder how long will it take for KiwiFarms userbase to dox Zaush and send a S.W.A.T. team to his house, since that's something they usually do.

No. Gonna side with Commissioner Gordon here

MissChu said:
Excuse my ignorance, I don't take part in the majority of furry things, but why would Fur Affinity be pro-Zaush? Is he an administrator on there? Otherwise, I don't see why such a large furry website would be so willing to defend a potential predator.

He posts art on Fur affinity. He is a massivly popular artist. I don't know if FA has any statistics posted anywhere, but he's watched by 75,059 people.

for some random numbers, e621 has 287,336 member (not counting people who never activated, or were banned. There are more people watching Zaush on FA than there are animated posts on e621. There are only a few more blips--ever-- than there are zaush-watchers on FA. We have a grand total of 95,179 artist tags on e621.

A fucking LOT of people follow Zaush.

For more e621 related statistics, since I can't seem to find a way to do it on FA:

If you search for order:favcount -animation (which is to say, the most bookmarked images, minus animations) ... number one? Zaush. 2? Zaush. You've got a few more artists in there, but then number 10? Zaush.

Zaush is popular. Zaush is the kind of user that, if he says "Fur affinity banned me even though I didn't violate any rules on their website... that sucks" ... people listen. and leave. He has weight and clout as one of, if not the biggest users on furaffinity.

Knotty_Curls said:
No. Gonna side with Commissioner Gordon here

Now, I don't support doxing and swatting people, that's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) dick moves someone can do online. Personally I think Zaush should get punished by the law, not by some Internet assholes that screw with other people's lives because that's the best they can do. I'm just curious when will the losers from KiwiFarms start doing their thing.

randomguy85 said:
Now, I don't support doxing and swatting people, that's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) dick moves someone can do online. Personally I think Zaush should get punished by the law, not by some Internet assholes that screw with other people's lives because that's the best they can do. I'm just curious when will the losers from KiwiFarms start doing their thing.

Hate to say it, but if he gets doxxed, then I won't do a damn thing to stop it. Sure, it's wrong, but if FurAffinity wants to play the "it's not illegal, so we wont do anything" card, then so will I.

SnowWolf said:
He posts art on Fur affinity. He is a massivly popular artist. I don't know if FA has any statistics posted anywhere, but he's watched by 75,059 people.

for some random numbers, e621 has 287,336 member (not counting people who never activated, or were banned. There are more people watching Zaush on FA than there are animated posts on e621. There are only a few more blips--ever-- than there are zaush-watchers on FA. We have a grand total of 95,179 artist tags on e621.

A fucking LOT of people follow Zaush.

For more e621 related statistics, since I can't seem to find a way to do it on FA:

If you search for order:favcount -animation (which is to say, the most bookmarked images, minus animations) ... number one? Zaush. 2? Zaush. You've got a few more artists in there, but then number 10? Zaush.

Zaush is popular. Zaush is the kind of user that, if he says "Fur affinity banned me even though I didn't violate any rules on their website... that sucks" ... people listen. and leave. He has weight and clout as one of, if not the biggest users on furaffinity.

He probably generates more revenue for the site than any controversy could possibly cause

It's funny to see Admin breaking rules.

I am not that familiar with the details of the situation, but spread word about what?

Have you ever visited google images?
Look!

If you want to blame someone for something, why not blame Google for hosting images, or IDK maybe photographers for taking them?

To me this seems like typical sheep mentality.
Some people calling for execution, would be funny to see all junkies executed for taking drugs, but drug dealers and drug producers roaming freely.
Or idk, those people that enjoy gore images, or whatever.

What exactly is the crime that was committed, talking about "fucking young girls"? I bet you never talked about anything illegal.

randomguy85 said:
Now, I don't support doxing and swatting people, that's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) dick moves someone can do online. Personally I think Zaush should get punished by the law, not by some Internet assholes that screw with other people's lives because that's the best they can do. I'm just curious when will the losers from KiwiFarms start doing their thing.

Punished for what?

Sheep mentality or proof of what I've kind been saying over the years: what you introduce yourself to will blur the line of your morality

DelurC said:
It's funny to see Admin breaking rules.

I'm curious, what rule has he broken? Checked twice and he hasn't broken anything.

Fuuuuuck. His artwork is gorgeous too. That's a shame if this is true, and I fear that it most likely is.

I believe it was sometime 5 to 10 years ago that news organizations got a whiff of communities built around sharing jailbait (wiki) pictures, so that "revelation" made the rounds, because.

Because the viewership are sheep who want to be shepherded to meadows where they can experience the throes and ecstasy of predictable and thus manufactured public outrage. Because this latest story hadn't been told yet that somehow made it new, even though the word "jailbait" had been used and generally understood for ~50 years, perhaps more than even 90 years, as if natural evolution is newsworthy. Because grappling with underage sexting was extremely topical, and because easy ratings from predictable public outrage is currency. IIRC, of course they biased their stories to the tune of "despicable, but legal", tacking on tired concerns like the difficulties these pictures pose for law enforcement to sound objective enough to fill out a news block.

I hope my venom paints me a cynic.

I won't discuss something that isn't visible or known. That founds a witch-hunt. Again, there's no there there. For that matter, either the law was broken or it wasn't. Nothing to discuss.

Also, newsflash? That's roughly what a pedo conversation looks like. Example, NSFW avatars but nothing that couldn't pass on E621 with a furry character. Don't conflate "pedophiles" with "child molesters", they say. Well, don't conflate "furries" with "animal fuckers", they say. Not only does unfair public stereotyping and persecution of furries and pedos parallel, both groups do attract members who live down to and perpetuate their groups' stigmas. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, or else hold your tongue instead of salivating on the juiciest cut of whatever the hell is your fix.

In case people forgot

Wikifur said:

A month after Zaush joined the Fur Affinity team, users complaints about FA's decision to accept his help (which had been building up slowly since December 2013),^{[citation needed]} reached a boiling point.

The fan based and non-furs' backlash was based on allegations of Zaush's sexual misconduct and bullying,^{[citation needed]} and even outright rape,^{[2] of women within the furry fandom. These allegations had been brought up for years,[citation needed] intensifying after Zaush's FA involvement.Zaush has denied such allegations.[3]Old is new again.Not that I trust wikifur's curation an iota.}

TheHuskyK9 said:
I'm curious, what rule has he broken? Checked twice and he hasn't broken anything.

Trial by forum for example?
Then there's that indirect call for IRL action.

DelurC said:
Then there's that indirect call for IRL action.

Nothing indirect about it, as far as I can see. I am surprised to see an admin calling out users in an attempt to get someone banned on FA and Patreon.

It should be none of our business.

FA admins protecting popufurs who bring in decent site traffic? What else is new. If only Inkbunny allowed humans.

Dogenzaka said:
FA admins protecting popufurs who bring in decent site traffic? What else is new. If only Inkbunny allowed humans.

Pixiv allows both, from what I've seen, but at the very least the primary image of sets needs to be censored. I've seen sets where later images were uncensored, but I'm not sure if that's even allowed or not, you'll want to check their rules yourself.

Furrin_Gok said:
Pixiv allows both, from what I've seen, but at the very least the primary image of sets needs to be censored. I've seen sets where later images were uncensored, but I'm not sure if that's even allowed or not, you'll want to check their rules yourself.

Some people get away with having the cover image uncensored, but to be safe, just use a censored image for the cover, then put the uncensored image(s) after it. works like a charm.

IndigoHeat said:
Fuuuuuck. His artwork is gorgeous too. That's a shame if this is true, and I fear that it most likely is.

He straight-up admitted to it.

Not sure what to think of this. For me it is easy to separate real life from online fur stuff. But if Zaush is an IRL scumbag hompefully there will be consequences

regsmutt said:
He straight-up admitted to it.

To what?

regsmutt said:
He straight-up admitted to it.

I know that now. The edit button didn't appear for me, so I couldn't add a note clarifying that.

DelurC said:
To what?

Sending photos of children in a sexualized context alongside dialogue about 12-year-olds looking fuckable. It's literally all up there in the op.

regsmutt said:
Sending photos of children in a sexualized context alongside dialogue about 12-year-olds looking fuckable. It's literally all up there in the op.

Have you ever been to google? Look!

And no, the way I read it is characters being fuckable, but even if they were referring to real children speech is not a crime, you never said anything that would in practice be illegal?

W E W, strap in boys and girls, this is going to be a long one.

I'm having a difficult time seeing where all of this puff and fluff is coming from.

From my investigation on the situation, it seems as though the pictures that Zaush himself linked were of a person who was not underage, but petite, while the person he was talking to was the one that offered said underage photos. And I feel it's worth mentioning that said photos that were offered weren't some shady, darkweb, under the counter kind of stuff, they were things you could find from a basic google search, even under heavy restrictions with safesearch on, not saying it makes it "right" to have it, look for it, or use it, just pointing that fact out.

That said, and it annoys me that I have to give this disclaimer, because people are so needlessly hyper emotional and eager to jump down the throat of anybody offering a rebuttal to a poor arguments, I do not condone the use of underage model pictures as reference for art. Putting morals and cultures (in terms of what flys and what doesn't in certain places), using stuff like that is just downright stupid. That said, however, no actual crime or wrong act was truly committed here, and the groups out there shouting and calling this CP are frankly trivializing and making a mockery of the actual victims of CP.

Also, I feel like everybody's taking that "fuckable" quote just a bit out of context. Despite the reference images that were being used, this is still ultimately a situation about furry art, and the conversation was about an image Zaush was going to do, so while on one hand it's still a tasteless and inappropriate quote, it stands to reason it was directed towards the character he was going to be drawing, and not the kids and the actual photos (again, not defending his actions, but despite opinions on him, that doesn't mean context suddenly doesn't apply for the sake of further villianizing him).

>Inb4 all my points are hand waved with "lol, s-stop defending pedos"

On that note, might as well get this out of the way ahead of time, I'm not defending him, what I am doing is pointing out the fact that what happened isn't nearly as bad as everyone's making it out to be, and it certainly doesn't warrant all of this foaming at the mouth to send him to jail (not that he would, seeing how no laws were broken), bury him with harassment, be deplatformed, or be defunded as a result of this mob mentality/street justice bullshit.

DelurC said:
Have you ever been to google? Look!

And no, the way I read it is characters being fuckable, but even if they were referring to real children speech is not a crime, you never said anything that would in practice be illegal?

Yeah nobody cares that photos of kids in swimsuits exist or that they were shared. It's the context they were shared in that's fucking gross. If the photos were shared in the context of figuring out a g-rated commission of a kid at the beach there'd be no issue. Well, at least anyone trying to make it an issue would by-and-large get shrugged at.

Jfc not everything has to be illegal to be bad. Morality=/=legality. If you're only argument is "well it's not illegal" that's... not great. He's talking about kids being sexy. That's gross and people are grossed out by it. He's using photos of real kids in a sexual context, taking away the angle that it's only fantasy characters.

And before the whole "pedophiles deserve treatment, being ostracized doesn't help" thing... Yeah, I don't disagree, but there's a fine line between "ostracizing people for thoughts" and "not tolerating inappropriate behaviour in a community." Sexualizing real children is inappropriate behaviour. Even Zaush agrees that what he was doing was inappropriate. There are consequences for behaving inappropriately, a lot of times that involves being rejected socially, being barred from community interactions, and sometimes monetary consequences if people decide the offense outweighs the benefit they get from a product produced by that person. Having a problem doesn't and shouldn't exempt people from consequences.

That's all I'm gonna say on the matter cuz this thread is going nowhere good fast.

ThatBIackGuy said:
W E W, strap in boys and girls, this is going to be a long one.

I'm having a difficult time seeing where all of this puff and fluff is coming from.

From my investigation on the situation, it seems as though the pictures that Zaush himself linked were of a person who was not underage, but petite, while the person he was talking to was the one that offered said underage photos. And I feel it's worth mentioning that said photos that were offered weren't some shady, darkweb, under the counter kind of stuff, they were things you could find from a basic google search, even under heavy restrictions with safesearch on, not saying it makes it "right" to have it, look for it, or use it, just pointing that fact out.

That said, and it annoys me that I have to give this disclaimer, because people are so needlessly hyper emotional and eager to jump down the throat of anybody offering a rebuttal to a poor arguments, I do not condone the use of underage model pictures as reference for art. Putting morals and cultures (in terms of what flys and what doesn't in certain places), using stuff like that is just downright stupid. That said, however, no actual crime or wrong act was truly committed here, and the groups out there shouting and calling this CP are frankly trivializing and making a mockery of the actual victims of CP.

Also, I feel like everybody's taking that "fuckable" quote just a bit out of context. Despite the reference images that were being used, this is still ultimately a situation about furry art, and the conversation was about an image Zaush was going to do, so while on one hand it's still a tasteless and inappropriate quote, it stands to reason it was directed towards the character he was going to be drawing, and not the kids and the actual photos (again, not defending his actions, but despite opinions on him, that doesn't mean context suddenly doesn't apply for the sake of further villianizing him).

>Inb4 all my points are hand waved with "lol, s-stop defending pedos"

On that note, might as well get this out of the way ahead of time, I'm not defending him, what I am doing is pointing out the fact that what happened isn't nearly as bad as everyone's making it out to be, and it certainly doesn't warrant all of this foaming at the mouth to send him to jail (not that he would, seeing how no laws were broken), bury him with harassment, be deplatformed, or be defunded as a result of this mob mentality/street justice bullshit.

The main point isn’t that he should go to jail, it’s that FA is extremely hypocritical in condoning him.

regsmutt said:
Sending photos of children in a sexualized context alongside dialogue about 12-year-olds looking fuckable. It's literally all up there in the op.

Yeah, we can read. But I didn't get that vibe at all.
I see the artist sending reference pictures and asking if those are similar to what the commissioner wants. And I see him saying that twelve is the minimum that he can draw as 'fuckable', and that he's more comfortable drawing characters older than that.

Fenrick said:
The main point isn’t that he should go to jail, it’s that FA is extremely hypocritical in condoning him.

IIRC It was an off-site matter, why should FA be a factor in any of it?

I hope no artist ever uses photos of real animal genitalia as a reference.

This thread started out as pointless and is going nowhere fast.

This forum is not the place to call for a witch-hunt, for whatever reason.