Who's watching it unfold?

For those who don't know, within the next 8 hours, Scotland may or may not give a huge middle finger to the UK and claim independence. Why are they doing this? Well, the people pushing for it claim the UK (and more specifically England) are responsible for a majority of Scotland's economic and social woes. They want more control over their country.
The opposition claims that not only is Scotland almost completely autonomous, but functions a lot better as part of a whole and, in short, the people who want independence are actually just nationalist douchebags.

Now, as near as anyone can tell, the number of people who are undecided on the issue are enough to sway the vote either way. It is going to be a very close call, no matter what happens (though as of writing this, the vote to stay in the UK is projected to have a narrow lead.)

As for me? Well, I'm English. And I've gotta say, I'm not confident enough to say with certainty I know the best option. I (like most English people I know) want what's best for Scotland. It's entirely possible independence would create a lot of opportunity for them. That said, from what I've heard there's more than a subtle vibe of 'We just hate the English' on the 'yes' camp. And that's no way to run a country. So for their sakes, I hope we'll still be united by breakfast tomorrow.

Don't get me wrong, I understand there's a lot of bad blood between our countries for fairly legit reasons. Did you know the British national anthem has a whole verse about killing Scottish people? Yeah. That could be better.
It's a fairly safe bet that anyone actually in Scotland isn't looking at furry websites right now, but what about the rest of y'all? Any high hopes for the highlanders?

EDIT: For those who do want to follow the whole thing, I'll just leave this link to the BBC coverage here.

EDIT2: They voted No. Scotland is still a part of the UK. UK gov. is looking to re-assess proposals of being less of a shit to them.

EDIT3: For those of you who are confused about how England/The UK/Great Britain works (which is completely legit because it's kinda complicated), I highly recommend this video here.

If they gain independence, then they'll economically fall over and come running back anyway

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
If they gain independence, then they'll economically fall over and come running back anyway

You can't 'come running back' from independence. :V It's a one-time thing. You can't un-shoot your husband.

elad said:
You can't 'come running back' from independence. :V It's a one-time thing. You can't un-shoot your husband.

well you can ask to join again

This is amazing lol. I wana see this!

Reminds me I gata tune in for the League finals tonight.

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
well you can ask to join again

Naw, this has been made very clear by the UK government that this is a one-time deal (and thus, a reason not to do it.)
Plus, there'd never be enough approval to attempt it even if it were possible.

If they separate, they have to start from scratch like it's a brand new country

All I can say is that if it's for their own good they should do it

TheHuskyK9 said:
If they separate, they have to start from scratch like it's a brand new country

Very true. There's an ongoing debate about what happens to Scotland's status in the EU. The SNP (Scottish National Party, who are at the front of the independence front) are making fairly brass claims that they'll be automatically accepted into the EU as soon as they're a new nation. To which a few others (France and Spain) have said 'Lol. Cool story bro.'

Interestingly, the SNP seem to want to keep UK currency, which no one is really sure how that's meant to work anyway.

Varka is Scottish, if the economy in independent Scotland falters he just rescues it with millions of dildos.

NotMeNotYou said:
Varka is Scottish, if the economy in independent Scotland falters he just rescues it with millions of dildos.

that is the most glorious and hilarious economy repair plan I have ever heard

NotMeNotYou said:
Varka is Scottish, if the economy in independent Scotland falters he just rescues it with millions of dildos.

Dildos as currency wouldn't be a bad option ether. Although I feel Scotland should be ready for a rough time if independence is called and as for England that whole verse about killing Scottish people could be corrected to killing Nazi soldiers the whole verse and wouldn't sound as bad.

Huh. I literally had no idea. I also don't have any notion of their economy, politics with england, etc to even wish for one way or the other. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. If they do separate from the rest of the UK, then it'll also be interesting if they start to reclaim a bit of culture separate from England again. I also wonder if the royal English family will stop wearing kilts to special occasional functions. I guess I'm just more interested in the cultural identity side of things. From the sounds of things, it sounds like the plan to separate is more idealistic rather than fully prepared for the realities of being their own country...and that's a rough road to start hiking without proper preparation and a realistic plan for transitioning the country. So I think they'd be better off waiting a few more years and separating for better reasons. But maybe they are ready, I don't know.

Durandal said:
The English and the Scottish crowns both wanted my ancestors dead. Where do I stand?

Well, it's a fairly safe bet that neither government body wants you, personally, dead as of right now. So wherever you want, I guess.

It won't pass.

Not sure what to think, I mean I have scotish blood and relatives there, but I don't even live there, so i'll just say that scotish people should do what is best for them in a long term way.
Also I approve the motion of saving the economy with Dragon Dildos. DRAGON DILDOS FOR EVERYONE!

I also think that Sheogorath will

A) Confirm his existence by materializing on live television
B) Become the king of Scotland and begin a reign of cheese and Wabbajacking.

They shouldn't, I mean look what happened here in America, or it could be that our officials suck.

Durandal said:
Well I thought the part where they landed on the moon was pretty cool

Yeah, that was, but I mean in recent times of our country. I'm American by the way.

KMFDM84 said:
Yeah, that was, but I mean in recent times of our country. I'm American by the way.

For an american your account name is more german than my own. (KMFDM= German-lead Industrial band Keine Macht für die Mehrheit, coincidentally created in '84)

NotMeNotYou said:
For an american your account name is more german than my own. (KMFDM= German-lead Industrial band Keine Macht für die Mehrheit, coincidentally created in '84)

Now I know what KMFDM stands for... "something something for the merit"?

Xch3l said:
Now I know what KMFDM stands for... "something something for the merit"?

"No power for the majority" is the direct translation.

NotMeNotYou said:
"No power for the majority" is the direct translation.

Whoo! 2 of 5! That's actually easier to remember than what's up there

#scotlandBTFI

According to my twitter feed, Scotland said "No thanks."

"The final result in the referendum was 1,617,989 votes in favor of independence from the United Kingdom to 2,001,926 against." - http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/world/europe/scotland-independence-vote/

It's 45% vs 55%

I wonder if the no vote is good or bad... Hm.

blackest_vulture said:
"The final result in the referendum was 1,617,989 votes in favor of independence from the United Kingdom to 2,001,926 against." - http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/world/europe/scotland-independence-vote/

It's 45% vs 55%

So, there won't be teeny weenies as scottish currency? ;_;

The Prime Minister David Cameron called it a 'clear win' at 55%.
This is the guy who was voted in on 35% so I guess to him that <i>would</i> look pretty good.

Of course, the problem now is that half of Scotland is still pretty pissed off. The fact that the referendum happened at all is a pretty huge failure of the UK government.

Well, a lot of promises were made that Scotland would have a greater say on itself now, so maybe it'll all be fore the best. I for one am glad they stuck around. Scotch is expensive enough already without adding on import tax.

elad said:
Scotch is expensive enough already without adding on import tax.

Pfft.

The reason we wanted independence was to be able to have a say in our future.

As it stands all decisions are made by Westminster and since there are more people in London alone than in Scotland, our voice is never going to be heard.

In no way did we 'want rid of the English'. Sure there are always extremists that just take every chance to cause discord with racist comments, but they are by far in the minority.

I may be proved wrong on my opinion, maybe we will be better off as a union, but I can't shake the feeling things are going to get a lot worse very fast. :(

Just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone to have a pleasant conversation :) If this starts any kind of flame war, we'll have to shut the thread down.

So far, everyone has been doing good, so please keep it up!

To an american, European diplomacy is as fascinating as it is confusing.

Aside from that civil war we had a few decades back, states within the US get a long fairly well, and I can't even imagine the kind of amazed outrage any of those would catch if they decided to have a statewide poll of "should we secede or not?" I'm surprised that it isn't being taken as an insult. Not saying that it should, they have that right, and it sounds like they've put up with a lot of shit over the years, but I'm just surprised not to hear a bunch of British being outspokenly upset about it. I know that it's a little bit different because Scotland is it's own nation, but it's really the only parallel I can draw with my limited experience in the matter.

I'm definitely watching this to see how it turns out, now that they've decided to stay a part of the union.

NotMeNotYou said:
For an american your account name is more german than my own. (KMFDM= German-lead Industrial band Keine Macht für die Mehrheit, coincidentally created in '84)

I'm a HUGE fan of the band, basically a nerd for it.

Tokaido said:
To an american, European diplomacy is as fascinating as it is confusing.

Aside from that civil war we had a few decades back, states within the US get a long fairly well, and I can't even imagine the kind of amazed outrage any of those would catch if they decided to have a statewide poll of "should we secede or not?" I'm surprised that it isn't being taken as an insult. Not saying that it should, they have that right, and it sounds like they've put up with a lot of shit over the years, but I'm just surprised not to hear a bunch of British being outspokenly upset about it. I know that it's a little bit different because Scotland is it's own nation, but it's really the only parallel I can draw with my limited experience in the matter.

I'm definitely watching this to see how it turns out, now that they've decided to stay a part of the union.

The thing with us europeans is that, while pretty close together on a global scale we were very far apart before the advent of mechanical transportation (trains, ships).
You basically had a clan consisting of a couple families living for themselves surrounded by forest, with minimal travel between them for the most part, there has been expansion and trade with horses or mail between holds and the likes but it still took often days per foot to reach the next settlement.

This resulted/caused/exagerated differences in speech, cultures, beliefs, heritage and stuff.

Then transportation came and the stuff started to expand, a couple wars were had and suddenly you have old enemies being forced into allies or being wiped out (we saxons for example basically murdered all slavs in saxony, they only have like 3 smaller cities left from originally all of saxony).

America only had the native americans on them, which got promptly steam rolled by the settlers, which, even though they were from different countries, were united in one desire, to start a new life.
They mingled from the beginning, something that didn't really happen in europe.

NotMeNotYou said:
The thing with us europeans is that, while pretty close together on a global scale we were very far apart before the advent of mechanical transportation (trains, ships).
You basically had a clan consisting of a couple families living for themselves surrounded by forest, with minimal travel between them for the most part, there has been expansion and trade with horses or mail between holds and the likes but it still took often days per foot to reach the next settlement.

This resulted/caused/exaggerated differences in speech, cultures, beliefs, heritage and stuff.

Then transportation came and the stuff started to expand, a couple wars were had and suddenly you have old enemies being forced into allies or being wiped out (we saxons for example basically murdered all slavs in saxony, they only have like 3 smaller cities left from originally all of saxony).

America only had the native americans on them, which got promptly steam rolled by the settlers, which, even though they were from different countries, were united in one desire, to start a new life.
They mingled from the beginning, something that didn't really happen in europe.

That really puts things in perspective. Thanks for that. (All that history I've read for both America and Europe makes a lot more sense now why things went the ways that they did.)

Imo, the reason why they didn't split is because they wasn't ready (Kevin Hart ref heh). There wasn't enough thought into how they were going to survive as a new and independent country. My guess is that once they plan out everything, they are going to try again in the future

DragonFox69 said:
The reason we wanted independence was to be able to have a say in our future.

As it stands all decisions are made by Westminster and since there are more people in London alone than in Scotland, our voice is never going to be heard.

In no way did we 'want rid of the English'. Sure there are always extremists that just take every chance to cause discord with racist comments, but they are by far in the minority.

I may be proved wrong on my opinion, maybe we will be better off as a union, but I can't shake the feeling things are going to get a lot worse very fast. :(

Theoretically, because of the referendum, Scotland would be losing nothing and potentially gaining a lot. At the very worst, things will stay the same as they were before.

Tokaido said:
Aside from that civil war we had a few decades back, states within the US get a long fairly well, and I can't even imagine the kind of amazed outrage any of those would catch if they decided to have a statewide poll of "should we secede or not?" I'm surprised that it isn't being taken as an insult. Not saying that it should, they have that right, and it sounds like they've put up with a lot of shit over the years, but I'm just surprised not to hear a bunch of British being outspokenly upset about it.

I think part of the reason is while we recognise Scotland as part of the kingdom, it's also very much a separate country. It's also fairly rare for any Englishman to *not* know someone Scottish, so the opportunity to have conversations on cross-border politics are frequent enough so that we can understand why they'd want to in the first place.

More than anything else, it comes down to economy. And I'd like to think any any English person or reasonable intelligence recognises that it benefits everyone if our closest neighbour (excluding Wales which probably doesn't even exist anyway) is financially secure. We have always been a trade nation and having good trade partners just makes sense.

I have a feeling the only reason the referendum failed was due to a lack of bodies covered with blue paint, and the fact that Mel Gibson became a fucking psycho.

Durandal said:
Don't f'rget aboot the kilts, claymores, and buckled shoes, laddie.

Trained haggis too.

DragonFox69 said:
Trained haggis too.

Tried haggis once, tastes like meatloaf.

Moon_Moon said:
I have a feeling the only reason the referendum failed was due to a lack of bodies covered with blue paint, and the fact that Mel Gibson became a fucking psycho.

Not enough "freedom!" screams too

Moon_Moon said:
I have a feeling the only reason the referendum failed was due to a lack of bodies covered with blue paint, and the fact that Mel Gibson became a fucking psycho.

Braveheart has caused increases in Scottish nationalism since 1995 interestingly, showing the power of film.

Similar referendum happened in 1992 with the province of Quebec looking to be recognized a 'distinct society' within (or without) Canada. Also ended up 55% / 45% split 'no'.

The vote may have ended differently in Canada, had the referendum question been a simple Quebec: YES / NO, instead of the ambiguous mess 'Do you agree that the Constitution of Canada should be renewed on the basis of the agreement reached on August 28, 1992?'

Sharp_Coyote said:
Similar referendum happened in 1992 with the province of Quebec looking to be recognized a 'distinct society' within (or without) Canada. Also ended up 55% / 45% split 'no'.

The vote may have ended differently in Canada, had the referendum question been a simple Quebec: YES / NO, instead of the ambiguous mess 'Do you agree that the Constitution of Canada should be renewed on the basis of the agreement reached on August 28, 1992?'

But that would be like having another France...
So fuck that.