SOPA failed in a way, and this will most likely fail too if it does pass. This copyright stuff has just gotten ridiculous to the point of insanity. And the whole premise of it, and the trademark system is being abused. As you have people taking out copyright claims on public domain works that have been in the circular for decades. Not to mention those who try to trademark common words and phrases. However, some of their motives and reasons do make sense in regards to the censorship portion.

The battle continues.
https://twitter.com/FB_BMB/status/1036594656648351744

The voting will start soon on September 12. Meanwhile, it looks like YouTube is against the directive.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/youtube-weighs-in-on-european-copyright-directive/

When will this be over?

cerberusmod_3 said:
Meanwhile, it looks like YouTube is against the directive.

They certainly can't be for it, since it'd hurt their profits.

Artists currently have two options: allow YouTube to use their music and other content without permission, or file constant copyright claims. The latter is expensive (in the 'time is money' sense) and completely pointless because the removed content tends to get re-uploaded by dozen other users the next day.

With the new directive, YouTube would have to actually start paying artists their fair share.

While I can't find Wikipedia's messages about the voting, here's one by another wiki hosting site, now known as FANDOM.

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:TOR/Join_us_in_protecting_the_freedom_of_user-generated_content

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/09/fake-compromises-real-threats-next-weeks-eu-copyright-vote

Apparently, there's a change in Article 13, and it said to be worse than before.

Hmm... Strange that no one seems to care.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/09/why-whole-world-should-be-arms-about-eus-looming-internet-catastrophe

In case you guys have forgotten.

A lack or response doesn't mean that others don't care. It just means they don't have anything to add. Please don't repeatedly bump your post.

KiraNoot said:
A lack or response doesn't mean that others don't care. It just means they don't have anything to add. Please don't repeatedly bump your post.

Oh? I was just intentionally bumping it by posting some news about the directive because I thought that no one else seems to care.

Still, I felt that not many people on the Internet are aware of this, even though the news states that it pose dangerous risks to the Internet.

cerberusmod_3 said:
*Bump*
*Bump*
*Bump*
*Bump*

This might actually achieve the exact opposite of what you wanted by making people think 'Oh that thread updated, eh who cares it's just that one user spamming.

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
This might actually achieve the exact opposite of what you wanted by making people think 'Oh that thread updated, eh who cares it's just that one user spamming.

Okay.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Oh? I was just intentionally bumping it by posting some news about the directive because I thought that no one else seems to care.

Still, I felt that not many people on the Internet are aware of this, even though the news states that it pose dangerous risks to the Internet.

Generally speaking, most days this forum only gets a handful of posts. WE're not exactly high traffic, where posts potentially risk get lost after a few hours.

People who are interested will click on it, those who are not will just get annoyed by it.

SnowWolf said:
Generally speaking, most days this forum only gets a handful of posts. WE're not exactly high traffic, where posts potentially risk get lost after a few hours.

People who are interested will click on it, those who are not will just get annoyed by it.

I understand.

Also, I just found something interesting.
https://boingboing.net/2018/09/10/not-in-our-name.html

Welp, our EU reps couldn't give less of a f*ck about this, moreover it's likely that they are bribed to support the censorship vote -.-

Haljkljavahlibrz said:
Welp, our EU reps couldn't give less of a f*ck about this, moreover it's likely that they are bribed to support the censorship vote -.-

I feel your pain, man. I feel your pain.
If it's passed, then what do we do now? Just sitting there doing nothing because we can't stop the directive for taking effect?

cerberusmod_3 said:
I feel your pain, man. I feel your pain.
If it's passed, then what do we do now? Just sitting there doing nothing because we can't stop the directive for taking effect?

Find a way to circumvent the ban or move to "free" platforms (tor), or adapt to the less free internet.

Haljkljavahlibrz said:
Find a way to circumvent the ban or move to "free" platforms (tor), or adapt to the less free internet.

Not sure if it's a good idea though (at least for me).

In other news, it looks like the vote isn't over yet. The next (and final) vote will take place on January.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/11/17845394/eu-copyright-directive-reform-date-vote-article-11-13

These EU politicians can suck it long and hard. Out-of-touch morons they are.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Not sure if it's a good idea though.

In other news, it looks like the vote isn't over yet. The next (and final) vote will take place on January.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/11/17845394/eu-copyright-directive-reform-date-vote-article-11-13

How would it be a bad idea? They can't possibly enforce every single part of the internet 24/7.

VPNs, proxies, etc, moving outside of EU jurisdiction.

fox_whisper85 said:
These EU politicians can suck it long and hard. Out-of-touch morons they are.

You can make fun of them whatever you want, but keep in mind that it's the right-wingers who's responsible.

fox_whisper85 said:
How would it be a bad idea? They can't possibly enforce every single part of the internet 24/7.

VPNs, proxies, etc, moving outside of EU jurisdiction.

Likely because I was pessimistic about it.

Like, are you sure it only affected the E.U.? Have you ever heard of E.U.'s Privacy Policy?

Here's a more balanced view: https://www.the-aop.org/uploads/aop-briefing-paper-eucopyrightdirective.pdf

Creating a DNP list did not kill off e621, and it will not kill off the internet giants. They can certainly afford to implement it, have you looked at their recent yearly profits? Whereas non-profit sites, forums and sites such as Wikipedia are exempt, linking is clearly also exempt so the whole 'link tax' argument is nonsense (The rights referred to in paragraph 1 shall not extend to acts of hyperlinking), and end-users won't be affected at all if they don't upload copyrighted content (which was already something that you could get in trouble for, so no changes there).

All this does is to force sites such as YouTube and Google into playing by the same rules as everyone else, instead of making their own rules because they're large enough to ignore the current laws.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eu-article-13-passed-meme-war
Well, we failed today, just as I thought it would. I wonder why the government can't trust us anyone and foolishly decided to vote in favor of it. Not even the Internet giants are able to stop it (why aren't you stopping it?).

The vote may not be over yet, but I expect failure next year. Nothing can stop the directive for taking effect.

So if it's passed, will this be the end of the open Internet we all known and love? Will it eventually affect the entire world? What will websites like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, DeviantArt, Pixiv, FurAffinity, etc. will be able to do after this? What's the Internet's final nail in the coffin? What if this situations happens to be an exaggerations? Why can't I trust anyone? When will the next big war happen?

They can't enforce laws on sites that aren't hosted there.

Random said:
They can't enforce laws on sites that aren't hosted there.

Hate to break it to you, but they seem to can under some circumstances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

cerberusmod_3 said:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eu-article-13-passed-meme-war

Sloppy reporting from wired. Paragraphs of rumors about some 'link tax', backed by old quotes from before the first vote. This version was specifically amended to says that hyperlinks are excluded.

By the way, these also passed:
* Digitalization of out of copyright works can no longer be argued to 'renew' the copyright. If it's out of copyright, it is freely available to everyone even if someone decides to scan it as an e-book...
* Wider provisions to e-lending laws guarantees that libraries such as Open Library will be able to function within EU, even if they get shut down in US.
* Non-profit organizations such as the Internet Archive and other human heritage projects (such as video game preservation) that were previously donation-based are now allowed to cover some of the costs with ads. Which might annoy some users, but it'll definitely make those projects more viable.
* And possibly, a EU ban on geoblocking, which'd mean no more YouTube's "this content is not available in your country"-blocks for European users. Might also get extended to things like a ban on region locking in movies and video games.

Genjar said:
Sloppy reporting from wired. Paragraphs of rumors about some 'link tax', backed by old quotes from before the first vote. This version was specifically amended to says that hyperlinks are excluded.

Well it's not just Wired. There could be anywhere. Here's the first one I saw.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/12/EU-copyright-directive-article-11-13-law-internet-ruling-censorship/
So, some sort of propaganda? I don't know. Pretty much everyone I knew including me agreed with this one.

It's been 2 months and the final voting hasn't been started yet. Here's some announcement from YouTube.

https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2018/11/i-support-goals-of-article-13-i-also.html

I don't know which is worse, though.

cerberusmod_3 said:
It's been 2 months and the final voting hasn't been started yet. Here's some announcement from YouTube.

https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2018/11/i-support-goals-of-article-13-i-also.html

I don't know which is worse, though.

6 myths about Article 13. Can't tell if it's true.

https://twitter.com/YTCreators/status/1061966081005379584

Here are some videos to enjoy.

https://youtu.be/GbXHrj8k7dg

https://youtu.be/TRYSxIYHS0w

It doesn’t matter where the site is hosted. Remember the whole “we updated our privacy policy” thing? US-based websites caved to that because traffic from the EU would be intercepted if they didn’t.

You guys still remembers the Article 13 fiasco? Apparently, it's back again, and I still don't know when will Article 13 takes effect.

cerberusmod_3 said:
You guys still remembers the Article 13 fiasco? Apparently, it's back again, and I still don't know when will Article 13 takes effect.

https://juliareda.eu/2019/01/article-13-almost-finished/

Oh, wait. I just found what the date will take place, can't tell which one, though...

It has been a big thing in the media here in Germany for at least the last week. The parliament succeeded to negotiate the guidelines for Article 13, the final vote will be in April. A lot of young people, mainly Youtubers and followers of those have found together spontaneously in Cologne both last and this Saturday to protest against the Article, on March 23rd there are demonstrations set all over the big cities in Germany, maybe even in other countries as well.

Chief Negotatiator Axel Voss from the german conservative party CDU either has no idea about how the internet and upload filters actually work or more likely doesn't care since it's possible he has been manipulated by two of the major print publisher here in Germany who would profit of it... good ol' lobbyism. Even our Chancellor Merkel insists on implementing the Article, effectively violating the coalition agreement she settled on months before.

The Article is even more critical than before... it demands of every User Generated Content Provider (pages like Facebook, Youtube, generally pages where you upload and publish any form of media) operating in Europe to check all their uploads for any copyrighted material and to automatically acquire the licenses for those, which is not only technically impossible to do, but can also be heavily abused by the rightholders. This Article might change the way we know the internet over here in Europe forever. We need to stop this.

It could be a good thing. Some web companies can just pull out of the EU and host content in the US or somewhere else. But it means they can't have any presence at all in the EU. Companies that can't do that will have to block EU IPs. Either the EU citizen backlash will force the law to be repealed, or EU citizens will create their own alternative and dark web services. They can also use a paid VPN subscription to access the US sites. Since people in the EU tend to pay a lot less than Americans do for internet service, a VPN subscription is not that painful for them.

BaffleBlend said:
It doesn’t matter where the site is hosted. Remember the whole “we updated our privacy policy” thing? US-based websites caved to that because traffic from the EU would be intercepted if they didn’t.

Define "intercepted".

BaffleBlend said:
It doesn’t matter where the site is hosted. Remember the whole “we updated our privacy policy” thing? US-based websites caved to that because traffic from the EU would be intercepted if they didn’t.

US companies had no problem doing this because the costs were almost nothing. "Oh, by the way, we use cookies on this website, toodles!" doesn't cost them anything, puts them in compliance with the EU regulation, and they're good to go. Mandated automatic content filtering is in a different league, it's intrusive and expensive. The sponsors promise both sides the moon, which is usually the sign that they're absolutely full of shit.

Copyright law wasn't broken (well it was, but not in this way). It's always been a balance. But the big rights holders don't want a balance, they want everything their way, and are willing to burn everything else down.

Oh great, another Internet censorship law?

I really hate this sad and sorry state of the world right now...

RubisDrake said:
Oh great, another Internet censorship law?

I really hate this sad and sorry state of the world right now...

Well, things could get worse. And if it affects not only Europe, but also the rest of the world, then it's screwed.

RubisDrake said:
Oh great, another Internet censorship law?

I really hate this sad and sorry state of the world right now...

Censorship is only for the thin-skinned pantywaist politicians.

More than 130 European businesses are trolling, I mean telling the European Parliament to stop the Copyright Directive:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/more-130-european-businesses-tell-european-parliament-reject-copyrightdirective

We're getting closer to March 25, folks. The UK aren't so lucky, though, as they don't know that their government will force websites to implement the AgeID systems and yet nobody bats an eye.

You guys scared now? Has Article 13 became much worse than before? Look no further than MEP.

cerberusmod_3 said:
More than 130 European businesses are trlling the European Parliament to stop the Copyright Directive:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/more-130-european-businesses-tell-european-parliament-reject-copyrightdirective

We're getting closer to March 25, folks. The UK aren't so lucky, though, as they don't know that their government will force websites to implement the AgeID systems and yet nobody bats an eye.

You guys scared now? Has Article 13 became much worse than before? Look no further than MEP.

IMO, shit's still gonna pass, because EU is ran by a bunch of corrupt politicians that only care about money, and the only thing that will make them roll back these changes, is for EU to get a major financial hit from the introduction of Article 13, which will probably happen. Many companies will have to move out of EU or completely close their business, and that effect will only snowball further, not mentioning the foreign companies that bring profit to the EU that will have to geolock their websites, because the EU boomers don't know what they're fucking with.

randomguy85 said:
IMO, shit's still gonna pass, because EU is ran by a bunch of corrupt politicians that only care about money, and the only thing that will make them roll back these changes, is for EU to get a major financial hit from the introduction of Article 13, which will probably happen. Many companies will have to move out of EU or completely close their business, and that effect will only snowball further, not mentioning the foreign companies that bring profit to the EU that will have to geolock their websites, because the EU boomers don't know what they're fucking with.

I imagine that people are having a hard time moving here. I mean, do they have a lot of money to leave EU?

Almost forgot this:
https://gizmodo.com/wikipedia-and-reddit-stage-eleventh-hour-protest-agains-1833464638/amp

As the battle continues, key Polish political party stands against Article 13:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/could-be-it-key-polish-political-party-comes-out-against-article-13

This doesn't stop the directives from being passed, but at least there are some politicians that are willing to stand up against the unfair system.

cerberusmod_3 said:
As the battle continues, key Polish political party stands against Article 13:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/could-be-it-key-polish-political-party-comes-out-against-article-13

This doesn't stop the directives from being passed, but at least there are some politicians that are willing to stand up against the unfair system.

Hmm, as far as I remember, PiS (the leading party) voted against Art13, while PO (the largest opposition party) voted for it. It seems that now PO wants to gain some more clout for the upcoming Polish elections, just like PiS did with being against Art13.

And to be honest, both PiS and PO are absolute trash and shouldn't be in the Sejm, but every 5 years it's either PiS or PO. And so, nothing changes in this country, because the Polish nation is full of narrow minded people that only see those both parties as viable candidates.

randomguy85 said:
Hmm, as far as I remember, PiS (the leading party) voted against Art13, while PO (the largest opposition party) voted for it. It seems that now PO wants to gain some more clout for the upcoming Polish elections, just like PiS did with being against Art13.

And to be honest, both PiS and PO are absolute trash and shouldn't be in the Sejm, but every 5 years it's either PiS or PO. And so, nothing changes in this country, because the Polish nation is full of narrow minded people that only see those both parties as viable candidates.

I don't know anything about politics in Poland, so I thought I would share.

But yeah, let's face it, politics sucks. Has anybody else studies how humanity has becoming stupider every day?

randomguy85 said:

And to be honest, both [Party 1] and [Party 2] are absolute trash and shouldn't be in [government name], but every [x] years it's either [Party 1] or [Party 2]. And so, nothing changes in this country, because the [name of country] nation is full of narrow minded people that only see those two parties as viable candidates.

Are you implying there's a "democratic" western government where this isn't the case?

MagnusEffect said:
Are you implying there's a "democratic" western government where this isn't the case?

Well, there goes an argument. Don't know which side am I going.

We're getting closer to the Article 13 debate.

And I'm starting to think the pain will continue next year.

If this happens, what's the reason for its bad luck? This would be interesting.

Oh, look! someone just chew this guy out, accusing him of being a corrupt liar:
https://www.deviantart.com/smithandcompanytoons/status/16885479

Which brings me to something, will there be a rig in the debate?

cerberusmod_3 said:
We're getting closer to the Article 13 debate.

And I'm starting to think the pain will continue next year.

If this happens, what's the reason for its bad luck? This would be interesting.

Oh, look! someone just chew this guy out, accusing him of being a corrupt liar:
https://www.deviantart.com/smithandcompanytoons/status/16885479

Which brings me to something, will there be a rig in the debate?

Of course there's gonna be a rig, even if the vote will result in the majority opposing the article, those slimeballs from the EU will push the article trough anyway.

randomguy85 said:
Of course there's gonna be a rig, even if the vote will result in the majority opposing the article, those slimeballs from the EU will push the article trough anyway.

Of course, why not. If we couldn't stop Article 13, then if we can't do it, then I don't know.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eu-article-13-vote-article-17

Not surprised with how this results came out. What else can sabotage the Internet freedom? First, the US, and now Europe. Why is it so hard to deal with it? Is it because we didn't pay attention to this system. Has Europe becoming more like Russia or China? Is there's a rig that nobody knew about? Who cares? The world is going to tear apart!

If the "good" news has stated, YouTube has said that the final version of the directive was “an improvement” but that it remained “concerned”. Plus, there will be elections soon on Europe, but don't expect this to be a happy end. We all know what happened before.

Well, I guess most European-based sites will be gone soon, and bigger and more actives sites (like Google and Facebook) will use the ContentID systems like YouTube to abuse them to no end.

Forgive me if I had to said, but screw these people (including you guys) for not paying attention to this news. Such cowards.

This is starting to get pointless. What shall we do if there is anything that threatens the freedom of the Internet? Should we give up or keep fighting? There's is no answer. None at all. It's impossible.

And you guys are not responding.

Jesus, I really hope that EU will fall apart. It's fucking disgusting to see what it's doing to us and our freedoms. It's like a 4th Reich, but under the cover of "democracy".

I would really want to unleash my hatred towards EU here, but I have to control myself.

randomguy85 said:
Jesus, I really hope that EU will fall apart. It's fucking disgusting to see what it's doing to us and our freedoms. It's like a 4th Reich, but under the cover of "democracy".

I would really want to unleash my hatred towards EU here, but I have to control myself.

I personally think violence is the only solution (but I might be wrong), because how else would you solve anything? Protest? Nope, they don't care. Petitions, nice try, because this site is useless, anyway.

Well, it gets worse if we do that, admittedly.

If there's anything better or worse, then the (hypothetically, so far) next world war can change everything. We have to fix our mistakes that happens before. We don't want to repeat this, ever.

Funny note, if you ever hate the EU, unleash the nuclear annihilation on them! This will solve the problems that no one can!

And now it has passed, you'll see with time that just about everything said about it was nothing but baseless scaremongering.

I have no idea why anyone would actually trust what the giants such as YouTube, Microsoft, or Google had to say about that directive. They're its the main targets, of course they're going to spew as much propaganda against it as they can.

This directive was desperately needed to keep the internet neutral, and fortunately for everyone, the corporate lobbying didn't pay off for once.

Genjar said:
And now it has passed, you'll see with time that just about everything said about it was nothing but baseless scaremongering.

I have no idea why anyone would actually trust what the internet giants such as YouTube or Google had to say about that directive. They're its the main targets, of course they're going to spew as much propaganda against it as they can.

Or maybe you? I'm staring to get confused. The majority of the Internet agrees that it's terrible, so are you telling lies or truths? I'm not pissing you off, just saying.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Or maybe you? I'm staring to get confused. The Internet is confused. Are you telling lies or truths? I'm not pissing you off, just saying.

Eh, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong if those articles actually turn out to be bad in practice. But I've read the directive, and most of the arguments against it were blatant misinformation.

Genjar said:
Eh, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong if those articles actually turn out to be bad in practice. But I've read the directive, and most of the arguments against it were blatant misinformation.

At least you admit it. I wonder if it will take effect in the future for better or worse. We expect worse, you expect better.

Let's see how people on the Internet would react to after this has passed.

randomguy85 said:
Jesus, I really hope that EU will fall apart. It's fucking disgusting to see what it's doing to us and our freedoms. It's like a 4th Reich, but under the cover of "democracy".

Well that's hyperbolic.

There is no EU "state", instead it's made of individual countries. The law passed because the majority of EU countries wanted it. Had the EU never existed, countries like France and Germany would still pass an identical law themselves.

For example: Britain is meant to leave the EU, yet they'll pass the same law even without EU membership. The UK's 2 biggest parties are largely in favour, as today's voting shows:

Tories: 15 for, 5 against, 1 absent
Labour: 12 for, 3 against, 3 absent
Libdem: 1 against
SNP: 2 against
UKIP: 5 against, 3 absent

Yet it's the EU who's the Nazi 4th reich? No one forced this law on the UK. They wanted it themselves.

Volphied said:
Well that's hyperbolic.

There is no EU "state", instead it's made of individual countries. The law passed because the majority of EU countries wanted it. Had the EU never existed, countries like France and Germany would still pass an identical law themselves.

For example: Britain is meant to leave the EU, yet they'll pass the same law even without EU membership. The UK's 2 biggest parties are largely in favour, as today's voting shows:

Tories: 15 for, 5 against, 1 absent
Labour: 12 for, 3 against, 3 absent
Libdem: 1 against
SNP: 2 against
UKIP: 5 against, 3 absent

Yet it's the EU who's the Nazi 4th reich? No one forced this law on the UK. They wanted it themselves.

Yes, I know they are made of individual countries. What's the reason for this? Why are they wanted the law in the first place?

randomguy85 said:
Jesus, I really hope that EU will fall apart. It's fucking disgusting to see what it's doing to us and our freedoms. It's like a 4th Reich, but under the cover of "democracy".

I would really want to unleash my hatred towards EU here, but I have to control myself.

''If democracy truly solved anything, it would be banned immediately'' ^^.

Anyway we do seem to be moving towards a more regulated society, i fear that content online will be increasingly difficult to obtain, so i'm glad that i developed a habit of saving everything i like on my pc (the closest thing to ''owning'' digital stuff without committing it to analog media).

Save what you like folks, even if we are not heading towards a locked-up internet it is a prudent thing to do.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Yes, I know they are made of individual countries.

My previous post was aimed at randomguy85. I wasn't implying anything about your knowledge.

cerberusmod_3 said:
What's the reason for this? Why are they wanted the law in the first place?

Sites such as Youtube continue to be a haven for sharing copyrighted works, despite the presence of filters etc. The big companies have been lobbying for harsher laws for a very long time.

Under the new rules, certain online platforms will be required to conclude licensing agreements with right holders - for example, music or film producers - for the use of music, videos or other copyright protected content. If licences are not concluded, these platforms will have to make their "best efforts" to ensure that content not authorised by the right holders is not available on their website. The "best effort" obligation does not prescribe any specific means or technology. This will be up to individual countries.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Yes, I know they are made of individual countries. What's the reason for this? Why are they wanted the law in the first place?

Because sites such as YouTube and Google should not be above the law. Being big doesn't mean that they get to make their own rules.

This directive puts them on the same playing field as other sites, and forces them to follow the rules that smaller sites already follow. It's not like copyright is a new thing, it's just that larger sites have been abusing loopholes for easy profit. Now those are mostly fixed, and there's room for competition again. Which is something that I see as a good thing. YouTube and such will have to start improving, if they want to stay at the top.

randomguy85 said:
Jesus, I really hope that EU will fall apart. It's fucking disgusting to see what it's doing to us and our freedoms. It's like a 4th Reich, but under the cover of "democracy".

I would really want to unleash my hatred towards EU here, but I have to control myself.

cerberusmod_3 said:
Funny note, if you ever hate the EU, unleash the nuclear annihilation on them! This will solve the problems that no one can!

Wow hold on there. The EU by its concept is actually a good thing, but currently it is heavily abused. I'd rather swap out involved politicians than tear the whole system apart. Because politicians alone have always been raising major trouble upon the population, no matter which form of government. I don't get the "funny note" either, most of us over here have been fighting the directive there for months since it concerns us most directly. Nuking us would be hella unfair and undiplomatic. Guess that's an easy thing to say as a non-European though...

cerberusmod_3 said:
I personally think violence is the only solution (but I might be wrong), because how else would you solve anything? Protest? Nope, they don't care. Petitions, nice try, because this site is useless, anyway.

I've been on the streets in Germany as well. And contrary to popular belief, in Germany we actually managed to provoke something. Only half of our MEPs that voted for it in September, did it this March. Only the Conservatives voted for it invariably, and a few minor other MEPs. The thing is, even if all german MEPs would have voted against, it wouldn't have been enough. The influence from other EU countries was too big, especially from France. The people there currently have different reasons to go on the streets...

Ecstatis said:
Wow hold on there. The EU by its concept is actually a good thing, but currently it is heavily abused. I'd rather swap out involved politicians than tear the whole system apart. Because politicians alone have always been raising major trouble upon the population, no matter which form of government. I don't get the "funny note" either, most of us over here have been fighting the directive there for months since it concerns us most directly. Nuking us would be hella unfair and undiplomatic. Guess that's an easy thing to say as a non-European though...

Yeah, right. We should be at least be more careful about this. Fake news. Propaganda. We shouldn't fall from it. We need investigations.

Admittedly, it's just a dumb jab towards randomguy85, who is pretty much thinks that the EU is like the US or something in terms of "state".

Ecstatis said:
Wow hold on there. The EU by its concept is actually a good thing, but currently it is heavily abused. I'd rather swap out involved politicians than tear the whole system apart. Because politicians alone have always been raising major trouble upon the population, no matter which form of government. I don't get the "funny note" either, most of us over here have been fighting the directive there for months since it concerns us most directly. Nuking us would be hella unfair and undiplomatic. Guess that's an easy thing to say as a non-European though...

The good news is that the next elections to the European Parliament are to be held between 23 and 26 May 2019. So it's time for everyone in Europe to check which way the political parties in your country voted and act accordingly.

Volphied said:
The good news is that the next elections to the European Parliament are to be held between 23 and 26 May 2019. So it's time for everyone in Europe to check which way the political parties in your country voted and act accordingly.

Yeah right. Can't wait for how those will turn out, though I'm not quite sure if it will really hit the Conservatives, or in the end even put some of our right-wing parties more forward...

Ecstatis said:
Yeah right. Can't wait for how those will turn out, though I'm not quite sure if it will really hit the Conservatives, or in the end even put some of our right-wing parties more forward...

The way i see it, it is possible that right-wing anti-immigration eurosceptic parties will be thrust forward (only question is by how much), leftists could also get a bit more ahead, but not by much since the left is on the decline all over Europe.

Essentially, the EU had potential to be a good thing, but it increasingly looks like it got screwed over by inept bueraucrats and good old hegemonistic tendencies (you'd have to be pretty naive to think that powerfull countries will give up their power in favour of what they view as third-rate dweebs).