With Nintendo seeming to be back up to it’s old tricks, issuing DMCAs against popular artists on twitter and such, is there any risk of art being taken down on sites such as here and Furaffinity? I’ve heard of plenty of cases where art was taken off of twitter and patreon, but not really any other sites.

From what I've seen it seems like Nintendo usually go after websites where normies might accidentally encounter furry porn (Twitter, Tumblr, etc) or places people are directly making money off the art (Patreon, merch websites). Furry websites generally seem to go untouched by Nintendo's DMCAs as far as I'm aware.

faucet said:
Furry websites generally seem to go untouched by Nintendo's DMCAs as far as I'm aware.

Not quite.

strikerman said:
Not quite.

Well, that’s a little disconcerting... I suppose this would be a question for a mod, but if e621 ever got a dmca like that, would they just follow in the footsteps of paheal?

Back it all up.

strikerman said:
Not quite.

I forgot this happened, but it was many years ago now and Google don't give e621 high search rankings like it used to with paheal. It also seems like they haven't received any action after all these years.

Well, I guess it’s probably not worth worrying TOO much about. It’s very unlikely they’d target this site, especially with how long it’s been up with no issue. That being said, I agree with mr. janitor up there, and we should probably archive any art we care about in case the worst happens

Excuse me, I'll leave my own opinion too.　[CAUTION : I CANNOT take (legal) responsibility for this comment.]
Source #1 In 1999, the artist who created the Pokémon doujinshi was arrested.　Apparently there was a lack of awareness of the doujinshi.
Then in 2010, Source #2
＞＞In the age of the Internet, it's not practical for us Nintendo to deal with every little thing.
＞＞One decision point is whether the dignity and value of our intellectual property will Not be undermined.

Plus, Furry(Kemono) Doujinshi social events are held in Japan and it is announced on the internet.
(( I've actually taken part in it 5 years ago.....That was a hell of a crowd!!! ))
I guess They should not be unaware of our existence. ( and the Certain Dreamland .... )
However, Nintendo seems to be having fans' games taken down by the DMCA. ← I know that Capcom did the same thing.

Fortunately this site has been falling in the search rankings for years, as @fauset said.
And here we have reassuring staff like @Lance Armstrong.

So I understand that We furry must think about handling those works with care.
As far as handling their work, there is absolutely no case where we don't take a risk. _{(I think the current situation is fine, though. )}

Oh good, a thinly veiled one of those "save melee" guys out trying to ruin everything

Well, I don't think my opinion is always correct either

I don't ever understand Nintendo, but I especially don't in this case.
Just why are they attacking porn artists and sites for hosting Pokemon stuff? Nintendo is never going to start making and selling official Pokemon porn, so it's not like the artists are intruding on a potential market for them. I understand that a large/loud number of people are brain dead, but do they seriously think enough people are going to think pokeporn is an official thing that it would become an issue for them?

Just gonna say it's usually not advisable to advocate archiving potentially-rule-violating content in a public space.
But honestly I'm surprised the furry art industry gets as much leeway as it does using Trademarked corporate designs for their own commercial profit.

notuncommon said:
Just why are they attacking porn artists and sites for hosting Pokemon stuff? Nintendo is never going to start making and selling official Pokemon porn, so it's not like the artists are intruding on a potential market for them. I understand that a large/loud number of people are brain dead, but do they seriously think enough people are going to think pokeporn is an official thing that it would become an issue for them?

Trademark law.
Derivative Works of Pokemon products are in the same situation as the infamous Disney Vault where any fan-content produced is legal property of The Pokemon Company, and the artist does not hold any rights to use their own image. The sole reason Pokemon art can even exist as a commercial industry is that there are so many Robin Hoods and only one Sheriff.

It’s against the site’s rules to talk about archiving art ON this site?

wewer22 said:
It’s against the site’s rules to talk about archiving art ON this site?

Not about archiving art itself, they said more specifically "to advocate archiving potentially-rule-violating content in a public space". i.e. "This post may be violating the rules/law", "Quick, everybody save it!" can be a problem. "This comic is awesome", "Use this tool to save it locally!" is less of a problem.

Ooooh... I see, my bad!

magnuseffect said:
Trademark law.
Derivative Works of Pokemon products are in the same situation as the infamous Disney Vault where any fan-content produced is legal property of The Pokemon Company, and the artist does not hold any rights to use their own image. The sole reason Pokemon art can even exist as a commercial industry is that there are so many Robin Hoods and only one Sheriff.

but like, they can just not chase after fanart. like everyone else.

[Obligatory warning: I'm not a lawyer and not versed heavily in trademark law.]

notuncommon said:
I don't ever understand Nintendo, but I especially don't in this case.
Just why are they attacking porn artists and sites for hosting Pokemon stuff? Nintendo is never going to start making and selling official Pokemon porn, so it's not like the artists are intruding on a potential market for them. I understand that a large/loud number of people are brain dead, but do they seriously think enough people are going to think pokeporn is an official thing that it would become an issue for them?

Nintendo has to protect its trademarks even from content produced for a market they've never been in and never will get into. If it doesn't do this, Nintendo could potentially lose that trademark when it comes time to renew it and thus also lose their ability to profit from the markets they're already in and actually will get into in the future.

magnuseffect said:
But honestly I'm surprised the furry art industry gets as much leeway as it does using Trademarked corporate designs for their own commercial profit.

We're too numerous and too small potatoes for it usually to be worth going after the fandom. Occasionally, Nintendo does need to flex its muscle and make a few examples out of some potentially problematic individuals here and there to remind us who really owns their intellectual property, but overall, it's better to let us play with their toys as long as we play nice first.

strikerman said:
but like, they can just not chase after fanart. like everyone else.

Too much fan stuff, the fewer people will want to buy official merch. Especially if the fan stuff is better than the official stuff. At the same time, if there's too much low quality fan content associated with the brand, people will be less interested in the brand.

watsit said:
Too much fan stuff, the fewer people will want to buy official merch. Especially if the fan stuff is better than the official stuff. At the same time, if there's too much low quality fan content associated with the brand, people will be less interested in the brand.

there's a bit of a [citation needed] there, especially since other companies (Sega, Valve, Blizzard, etc.) have supported fan creations without any consequences (specifically resulting from fan content)

strikerman said:
there's a bit of a [citation needed] there, especially since other companies (Sega, Valve, Blizzard, etc.) have supported fan creations without any consequences (specifically resulting from fan content)

TPC supports/allows fan creations too. Something to consider though is that Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise in history. Bigger than WoW, bigger than Half-Life/Team Fortress, bigger than Sonic, etc. It's bigger than Mickey Mouse. The things Nintendo (feels it) has to do to keep their profits "secured", will be more visible and extreme because the franchise has a farther reach and there's more on the line. Also, Nintendo in general has a history of being a control freak, so that will also affect how much leniency they allow (they also have experience with the threat of trademark dilution, given how during the NES and SNES days they were so well-known for their video game consoles, that parents and plenty of uninitiated people would call any gaming system "a nintendo"; so they may be more quick to react to similar potential issues). This is largely just me speculating, though.

strikerman said:
but like, they can just not chase after fanart. like everyone else.

I mean the route I'd prefer is artists drawing more corporate-crossovers and then watching them fight over who owns exclusive rights to the artwork.
Though that still wouldn't do anything for posting rights on e621, as image distribution rights aren't a factor in the e621 takedown system. Not to mention any artist mad enough to let this hit a courtroom is still getting reamed for trademark violation no matter how the rights battle goes.

Disney at least are more quietly-intolerant of fan content, even if it prompts them to quarantine their third-highest-grossing film.

watsit said:
TPC supports/allows fan creations too.

I just want to point out

In no uncertain terms, does Pokémon's use of Fan Art constitute a grant to Fan Art's creator to use the Pokémon intellectual property or Fan Art beyond a personal, noncommercial home use.

In layperson terms; the moment money changes hands over Pokémon Fan Art, or it's associated with a commercial business (association with commission business/Patreon rewards,) it's a legal violation which an artist/character-owner could be sued for. (Assuming they ignore the DMCA notice and the corp. cares enough to lose a little money to make an example of them.)

magnuseffect said:
Just gonna say it's usually not advisable to advocate archiving potentially-rule-violating content in a public space.
But honestly I'm surprised the furry art industry gets as much leeway as it does using Trademarked corporate designs for their own commercial profit.

Trademark law.
Derivative Works of Pokemon products are in the same situation as the infamous Disney Vault where any fan-content produced is legal property of The Pokemon Company, and the artist does not hold any rights to use their own image. The sole reason Pokemon art can even exist as a commercial industry is that there are so many Robin Hoods and only one Sheriff.

Interesting indeed. Nintendo is still not exactly like Disney in terms of copyright bitching, but still its a load of anti-consumer BS and scumbaggery.

ywingbass said:
Interesting indeed. Nintendo is still not exactly like Disney in terms of copyright bitching, but still its a load of anti-consumer BS and scumbaggery.

If they(Nintendo/Disney) were really anti-consumer and had a lot of sheriff, I wouldn't be a fan of theirs anymore. _{^{..(..I can't deny about the latter, because I've felt so too.)}}
I think if we are to avoid risk, should pay attention to what @faucet said .
As an example, at social events such as Comiket, the price of books is low. Also e6 is not accessible to people under 18 so Normies doesn't see here accidentally.
.......Well though it's Not for a guy like me to say.　Edit : /posts/777111

clawstripe said:
[Obligatory warning: I'm not a lawyer and not versed heavily in trademark law.]
Nintendo has to protect its trademarks even from content produced for a market they've never been in and never will get into. If it doesn't do this, Nintendo could potentially lose that trademark when it comes time to renew it and thus also lose their ability to profit from the markets they're already in and actually will get into in the future.

We're too numerous and too small potatoes for it usually to be worth going after the fandom. Occasionally, Nintendo does need to flex its muscle and make a few examples out of some potentially problematic individuals here and there to remind us who really owns their intellectual property, but overall, it's better to let us play with their toys as long as we play nice first.

The DMCA isn't for Trademark claims. Only copyright. There are ways to copyright a trademark aspect, like font or physical design of the trademark. But you can not file a DMCA take down just because someone is using your Trademark in a copyrighted object.

It's an important distinction, because if you did get a DMCA take down notice with wording about trademark you should probably take to a lawyer because it could be invalid.

That said, I know Nintendo does claim copyright on the Pokemon creatures themselves, so in theory any derided work that contains them could a violation of copyright. Exceptions could be made for parody. But the vast, vast majority of porn would not fall under that (porn by itself is not parody, at most it would be satire which is omitted from the parody protection). It's possible that anthropomorphic art work, might be able to calm it's not a direct copy of Nintendo's characters, and might not fall under their copyright. Honestly, the only way you'd ever know that for sure is if this ever made it to court. IIRC, no copyright claim against self labeled "Porn parodies" has ever made it to court.

It's also worth noting that extra credence is given to the fair-use defense if the work in question is created without commercial gain. Pure fan art falls into that category, though paid works would not.

IANAL, though I play one when drunk, and this is not legal advice.

wewer22 said:
With Nintendo seeming to be back up to it’s old tricks, issuing DMCAs against popular artists on twitter and such, is there any risk of art being taken down on sites such as here and Furaffinity? I’ve heard of plenty of cases where art was taken off of twitter and patreon, but not really any other sites.

Nintendo still hasn’t figured out that angering their fans always tends to hurt them in the long run. When they try to control something, people just create more ways to get around their business practices and they end up losing even more of the market and more popularity. On the flipside, question for Nintendo: what normal person is going to look at some Nintendo furry porn and think it’s anything official? Who besides old grandmas who just got their first computer are going to make that mistake?

sammytheseal said:
Nintendo still hasn’t figured out that angering their fans always tends to hurt them in the long run. (...)
On the flipside, question for Nintendo: what normal person is going to look at some Nintendo furry porn and think it’s anything official? (...)

Nope, they wouldn't do that, I think.　 _{^{And isn't it time to let this topic rest in peace...}}
Please check my post for details. 　We are not allowed to create works that look like official ones to someone else.
For example, in my country, videos of Mario mods went popular, but Nintendo removed them for that reason. ← ※So-called "Kaizou-Mario" (modified Mario)
( By the way, do you know what Nintendo did after that? --- They made Mario_Maker. So they seem to think they know What we are looking for. )

Nintendo Takes Down Fan-Made 'Pokemon Uranium' Game
Nintendo Issues Takedown for NSFW Princess Peach Fan Game
Nintendo Takes Down Zelda Fan Game Trailers, Website
Nintendo issues DMCA takedown for Super Mario Bros. Commodore 64 port
Nintendo Lawyers File Copyright Complaints Against Super Mario 64 PC Port

Eventually, there will be a new equilibrium where any fan games and mods are created anonymously and hosted outside of the reach of Nintendo's DMCA from start to finish. It might take a few more naive creators being burnt before it happens.

Porn is much less of a concern for Nintendo. Games are their primary business, and that's where they definitely don't want any confusion over their trademarks.

Edit, check this out:

Nintendo Conducted Invasive Surveillance Operation Against Homebrew Hacker

With tactics like this being used, pretty soon anybody working on Nintendo hacks, homebrew, mods, fan games, etc. will be doing it under names like Jizzmaster404, behind 7 proxies.

lance_armstrong said:
Porn is much less of a concern for Nintendo.

I think their art concern is more that some artists are basing their entire commercial business almost exclusively on Pokemon art. The porn aspect is likely coincidental and I think anyone jumping straight to that is overreaching. Pokemon-heavy artists in general should be considering DMCA risks, especially if they've got something like a Pokemon-dedicated Patreon set up.

magnuseffect said:
I think their art concern is more that some artists are basing their entire commercial business almost exclusively on Pokemon art. The porn aspect is likely coincidental and I think anyone jumping straight to that is overreaching. Pokemon-heavy artists in general should be considering DMCA risks, especially if they've got something like a Pokemon-dedicated Patreon set up.

Well if your Twitter and Patreon don't get nuked at the same time, start redirecting people to a SubscribeStar or Mastodon. Have the accounts ready before you get nuked.

lance_armstrong said:
Well if your Twitter and Patreon don't get nuked at the same time, start redirecting people to a SubscribeStar or Mastodon. Have the accounts ready before you get nuked.

>Mastadon
I'd rather more artists get redirected to either Pillowfort, Parler, or Ello.

lance_armstrong said:
Well if your Twitter and Patreon don't get nuked at the same time, start redirecting people to..

That wasn't about content being nuked, I was talking about having your Pokemon-based art inherently tied to a verifiable income stream.

ywingbass said:
>Mastadon
I'd rather more artists get redirected to either Pillowfort, Parler, or Ello.

I don't know where people want to go. Parler seems like a bad choice though because porn was previously "banned" and it collects phone numbers. Maybe you can get around that with Google Voice or Burner but I ain't got time for that. Ello's rules say "Please do not post any content depicting sexual stimulation or penetration." Pillowfort is asking for $5 to join. Want to try again?

magnuseffect said:
That wasn't about content being nuked, I was talking about having your Pokemon-based art inherently tied to a verifiable income stream.

I'm talking about entire accounts being nuked. I think the likely worst outcome of a DMCA would be that Patreon kicks them off, killing the income stream, not that Nintendo finds out who they are and sues.

You need to have accounts across multiple platforms in advance so your followers can find you if one dies.

lance_armstrong said:
..not that Nintendo finds out who they are and sues.

The implication was the income stream is why they'd DMCA in the first place.

>parler previously "banned" porn
For how long was porn banned there, and why the quotation marks?
You are spot on about Ello though, Lance
Pillowfort does indeed ask users for $5 for a full account, but those already members can give invites to others they know without anything extra. Also, there's Telegram and qtox.

lance_armstrong said:
Back it all up.

now y'all. To the right. to the left…

anyway, yeah. I'm sure all the poképorn could fit on a nice, cheap, consumer accessible… 20 Petabyte drive. But if you have a standard for quality, you could make it 1 petabyte. point is, once it is ceased, you can't really distribute it or host the images anymore sooo…
At this point i'm not sure if petabyte is an exaggeration

catt0s_0fthenight said:
now y'all. To the right. to the left…

anyway, yeah. I'm sure all the poképorn could fit on a nice, cheap, consumer accessible… 20 Petabyte drive. But if you have a standard for quality, you could make it 1 petabyte. point is, once it is ceased, you can't really distribute it or host the images anymore sooo…
At this point i'm not sure if petabyte is an exaggeration

The entirety of e621 is less than 3 TB. I can't check the latest numbers now that the Stats page is gone, but the average file size was only about 0.9 MB in 2017. So at 1 MB a post, we have about 2.5 TB today. That's over 2.5 million posts, a lot of which aren't poképorn.

You can get 8, 10, 12, and even 14 TB drives for relatively cheap. It would fit all of e621 comfortably, with room for other sites.

Distribution can happen by sneakernet if necessary. It wouldn't be necessary, though.

Consumer 1000 TB drives would be nice, but we can't count on hard drives ever scaling to that capacity, or petabyte solid state drives becoming cheap or reliable enough. But by the time the porn hoard grows that large, there could be new storage technologies on the market. I hope so, anyway.

I don't know if all of E6 could get hit, but hopefully the owners of this site realize that a Cease and Desist is cheap to issue, but lawsuits are expensive, so a lot of contracted law companies send out dozens a day and then never try to back them up.

I'm always disappointed when someone gives up after only the first C&D.

lance_armstrong said:
The entirety of e621 is less than 3 TB. I can't check the latest numbers now that the Stats page is gone, but the average file size was only about 0.9 MB in 2017. So at 1 MB a post, we have about 2.5 TB today. That's over 2.5 million posts, a lot of which aren't poképorn.

You can get 8, 10, 12, and even 14 TB drives for relatively cheap. It would fit all of e621 comfortably, with room for other sites.

Distribution can happen by sneakernet if necessary. It wouldn't be necessary, though.

Consumer 1000 TB drives would be nice, but we can't count on hard drives ever scaling to that capacity, or petabyte solid state drives becoming cheap or reliable enough. But by the time the porn hoard grows that large, there could be new storage technologies on the market. I hope so, anyway.

holy sh¡t how? I got an external 5tb hdd for $100 but your telling me that it could fit all of e621?

anyway, i would love to have an ssd, but i would also love to have a working phone that has more than a gig of memory and doesn'trun android 4, so im probably gonna get that first.

catt0s_0fthenight said:
holy sh¡t how? I got an external 5tb hdd for $100 but your telling me that it could fit all of e621?

Yes, it will fit on your 5 TB HDD.

There's just not as much as you think on here, and it is mostly images.

You see images as low as 50 KB, some at 4 MB or more, but the average is somewhere around 1 MB. 1 million megabytes is a terabyte. We only have about 2.56 million posts. About 9-10% of that is p0k3p0rn.

In 2019, before the Purge, Pornhub said it had 11 petabytes, or 11000 TB. That was the #3 visited porn site in the world, with mostly video content, but it could still be stored for less than $250,000 on HDDs. In reality, their storage costs were much higher because they needed SSDs and duplicate copies to serve content fast to each region, and backups.

Furry art is a niche, most of it is still drawn images, and images are a lot smaller than videos. Maybe FurAffinity stores a lot more, do they put out those stats?

feel like all this website's art should fit well on a 8TB Hard Drive, although my only estimate is FA's entire available art being roughly 4TB give or take.

lance_armstrong said:
In 2019, before the Purge, Pornhub said it had 11 petabytes, or 11000 TB.

Just a small addition: The bigger the number gets the bigger the difference between the actual number and human understanding. To make it easy for humans we say 1 petabyte is 1000 TB and 1 TB is 1000GB but that is not quite right.
1kB is 1024 byte
1MB is 1024 kB is 1,048,576 byte contrary to the assumption of 1,000,000 Bytes
and so on
So 11 petabytes are actually 11264 TB

agiant said:
Just a small addition: The bigger the number gets the bigger the difference between the actual number and human understanding. To make it easy for humans we say 1 petabyte is 1000 TB and 1 TB is 1000GB but that is not quite right.
1kB is 1024 byte
1MB is 1024 kB is 1,048,576 byte contrary to the assumption of 1,000,000 Bytes
and so on
So 11 petabytes are actually 11264 TB

Technically untrue. The SI prefixes represent powers of 1000, and new binary prefixes have been introduced by the International Electrotechnical Commission, representing powers of 1024.

11 pebibytes are equal to 11264 tebibytes or about 12385 terabytes.

Since Pornhub was quoted as saying 11 petabytes, we must assume 11 quadrillion bytes or 11000 TB.

lance_armstrong said:
Technically untrue. The SI prefixes represent powers of 1000, and new binary prefixes have been introduced by the International Electrotechnical Commission, representing powers of 1024.

11 pebibytes are equal to 11264 tebibytes or about 12385 terabytes.

Since Pornhub was quoted as saying 11 petabytes, we must assume 11 quadrillion bytes or 11000 TB.

you're right.

lance_armstrong said:
Technically untrue. The SI prefixes represent powers of 1000, and new binary prefixes have been introduced by the International Electrotechnical Commission, representing powers of 1024.

Technically maybe, but practically it's much less clear. The SI prefixes were used to represent powers of 1024 for computers, and was standard use among the computing industry. The binary prefixes were created much later, when companies started sowing confusion (in part because of marketing realized they could technically advertise MBs of storage for a multiple of 1,000,000 bytes, giving less than a typical consumer of said drive would've expected). There's really no telling whether a given piece of software is using the SI prefixes as multiples of 1000 or 1024, and it's not unusual to run into people and places who use the SI prefixes colloquially for the powers of 1024 because it was that normalized, and the binary prefixes look and sound silly.

watsit said:
Technically maybe, but practically it's much less clear. The SI prefixes were used to represent powers of 1024 for computers, and was standard use among the computing industry. The binary prefixes were created much later, when companies started sowing confusion (in part because of marketing realized they could technically advertise MBs of storage for a multiple of 1,000,000 bytes, giving less than a typical consumer of said drive would've expected). There's really no telling whether a given piece of software is using the SI prefixes as multiples of 1000 or 1024, and it's not unusual to run into people and places who use the SI prefixes colloquially for the powers of 1024 because it was that normalized, and the binary prefixes look and sound silly.

Binary prefixes are the fix. Using kilo and mega to mean something other than 1 thousand and 1 million was ultimately a bad idea, and incompatible with other usage. Multiplying and dividing by powers of 1000 is very easy to do. It's just a matter of shifting the decimal place or swapping the prefix.

As for looking silly, 99% of people probably don't know what a petabyte is. If you are in the club, you should just go full nerd.

They should have abandoned "KB/MB/GB" and so on and just made new binary/decimal prefixes. Now they have useless "KB" that means several different things, depending on the time period, author, phase of the moon, capitalization... Gee, how could this be a problem? :-P

If you wanted to be technical, decimal bytes are 10 bits, hilariously enough. I guess we can also bring back Bell current(non-ring) ratings, and baud rates for ISPs.

Seriously, though, there is shockingly a different definition of a byte on older platforms because they had a different width of memory. Say, 7 or 9. Don't even get me started on ternary('trinary'). :/

Funny enough people have been doing a '#deadpanda' mirroring project on Rizon/e-hentai. That is something like 50TB but people have been working on ranges or tags. A few seem to have done a 99% archive. That ship's done sailed for preventing people from sharing it, at least for that site.