So to start, this proposed update would not change how the rules are currently enforced, these are still being handled by staff under Trolling and Harassment rules. This proposal is to make what has been implicit in the rules become explicit. Again, this does not change what is being enforced, only how it is being enforced.

The current rule section:

The update being proposed:

Where is this coming from? - This proposal in its current form comes from feedback I gathered after talking to over 230 people (most of them LGBT+), along with 3 members of staff over the course of about a year and a half. This is not as impressive as it sounds, most people said something with the soul of "it looks good" and did not have suggestions for things to add or change. There were some who thought these were over-reaching and others who thought they did not go far enough and having most people say they look ok is, I think, a good sign. I have tweaked the wording around a ton, especially for the last subrule which could probably be dropped because the first subrule skims it. The little slur example list in subrule 2 also came up a lot, and honestly it could probably be removed too since either X was not in it or X is not a slur and it was like fighting the tide trying to find a bare minimum people could agree on.

Why is this? - Originally added in late 2013, now nearing 8 years ago, the rules for Sexual Orientation were to prevent someone's sexual orientation from being targeted. Since then, there has been a societally conscious shift from sexual orientation to sexual/gender identity; rather than someone saying that being gay is something wrong with someone that needs to be corrected, it is currently more agreeable (to some) for someone to say that not identifying with what you were assigned at birth is a mental illness that someone needs to get over. We know which way the tide is going, this will eventually be much less of an issue than it is now, but it is beneficial to make the rules accurately reflect enforcement regardless.

How can you help make this happen? - Voice your support or say why you are against it here. This forum if for feedback from the community on the rule proposal so they can agree to accept it or not, either after some modification or as is.

_{happy pride month and sorry for any poor English spelling or grammar k thanks}

I think it's written fine. The only thing I would add is and ,ect to the slur list. That'd better cover "well ___ isn't on the list so it should be fine." But I feel like that's me just making minor nitpicks/suggestions.

I think this is a great idea.

Love it! Very well written

looks good to me :3

always good to cover more area with these rather annoying issues.

Odisaodi said:
Continued mis-identification, or being willfully ignorant, of identity towards users or characters

You mentioned this one could be dropped, but I thought it best to put my thoughts here still.

I think it should be changed a bit as it'd be difficult to say if the person is just forgetful or doing it on purpose to upset somebody. Being "willfully ignorant", ignoring their preferred gender just to hurt someone, would be report worthy, but just being forgetful I feel could be a bit much.

Secondly, "towards characters" feels like you'd get a lot of posts saying, "by only tagging what you see you're misgendering my character". As with the first point I think it'd be better to phrase it more towards their intent.

I think the rest looks good, just that last bullet point stuck out to me, especially when on the internet and text based chat where people can read too much into things that the author didn't mean or intend.

Odisaodi the Cutederg said:
_{happy pride month and sorry for any poor English spelling or grammar k thanks}

Thank you, you too. And don't worry, your English and grammar are fine :3

No complaints from me.

... Considering the people who whine about "muh pedophilia" because of the cub art tend to get banned for refusal to blacklist/trolling, that entire section seems irrelevant anyway. Going out of your way to antagonise other users for any reason is idiotic in general.

Now, onto the main content of this post. Who arbitrates what constitutes slurs? Are you leaving it up to public vote, to the opinion of the staff, or do you have a preset list in mind to reference?
As Pup stated, as well, how are you to define and enforce this? Are you going to keep an eye on everyone who misgenders a character or user and have them punished if they cross a certain threshold of instances? How do you define willful ignorance versus simple ignorance, given they could run the issue of, due to the sheer volume of intersex/trans/whatever have you characters in artwork make this mistake a lot due to simple volume of posts and inability to carefully research each and every character and user's preferred pronouns. Is it only if it is repeated towards one target, or is it cumulative of all instances?

I'd get rid of the list, change the a.k.a. to "or", rests seems fine.

votp said:
Who arbitrates what constitutes slurs? Are you leaving it up to public vote, to the opinion of the staff, or do you have a preset list in mind to reference?

Staff, sometimes we ask someone from an area if something is a slur such as some of the portuguese comments. (other languages too but oddly as much as I remember it seems to mainly be portuguese comments)

As Pup stated, as well, how are you to define and enforce this? Are you going to keep an eye on everyone who misgenders a character or user and have them punished if they cross a certain threshold of instances? How do you define willful ignorance versus simple ignorance, given they could run the issue of, due to the sheer volume of intersex/trans/whatever have you characters in artwork make this mistake a lot due to simple volume of posts and inability to carefully research each and every character and user's preferred pronouns. Is it only if it is repeated towards one target, or is it cumulative of all instances?

Out of order:
It's mostly been character owners that notice the same persons that use the wrong pronouns with their characters so the trolling/harassment is usually pretty clear, otherwise we just tell them to stop via dmail or comment and then take it from there if they keep going.
I don't see people being simply ignorant as an issue since it's easily resolved and they'd have to repeat the same offense a few times in a rather short time to get booted for it and appeals for records based on honest mistakes tend to go over pretty easily.
Oh boy I have a great example: there's a popular comic by funkybun which has a transmale character in it. We can safely assume that if someone is 50+ pages in and referring to them as a "she" that they're trolling, and we in fact have. There was a while that most reports about misgendering came from comments on that comic.

Millcore said:
[..]I don't see people being simply ignorant as an issue since it's easily resolved[..]

I was more thinking the rule's phrasing should match that. Being ignorant isn't a problem, as you say if someone mis-genders accidentally they can appeal it, but with the way the rule is phrased it doesn't imply that.

I thought the proposed rule:

Continued mis-identification, or being willfully ignorant, of identity towards users or characters

Could be changed to something like:

Continued purposeful mis-identification, or being willfully ignorant, of identity towards users or characters

If this rule helps to make E6 a slightly brighter, warmer, safer locale for everyone to visit - i'm all for it.

As long as people who don't realize certain terms are offensive aren't getting in trouble over being ignorant I'm all for it.

I think this is amazing. E6 is a place for everyone.

I'm fully on board on this proposal. These changes will go a long way at making everyone feel welcome, which is the way to go imo.

I was reading that first post and... "gay equals mental illness" Wow, that's like 1940's old. I mean, just... That's archaic thinking. Applying it to whatever new terms people use for 'sexual interests not mine'/'sexual interests like my minority demographic' is not shocking, though.

I feel like this is getting too far into politics, though. :(

:edit: Read more posts by Pup and VotP, and they raised most of the same issues I was thinking of. It might make sense to tweak how this is enforced, rather than adding extra terms. Maybe spell out some examples of unallowed past abuse?

showing up a bit late here, but i was directed here by millcore, so i figure it's okay

on the whole, i think this is a solid ruling, especially in light of the fact that i was admittedly myself unsure if i even should report transphobia when it isn't explicitly included under the current rule (which, mind you, i did under the harassment and trolling grounds, of course). i recognize and respect the aforementioned problems raised of wondering how you constitute what qualifies as "willful," but i'd argue that the same could be said of the prior ruling, really, as well as the idea of moderating bigotry at all

recently, i filed (and subsequently saw approval for) a ticket for someone using the word "troon" in a derogatory manner. i think a lot of people probably wouldn't recognize that as being a slur at all, but as a trans woman, i can speak to the fact that it is used as one, and several online sources define it as one, so it was pretty easy for it to be looked into and have the conclusion be "oh, yeah, this is not something that should be being said." on that front, i'd support mill's statement that the concern of "who arbitrates this?" is something we kind of just have to leave to the staff to research, on a case by case basis. admins have the jurisdiction to be able to, in good faith, research how a word is used and how it affects and is regarded by marginalized people, allowing them to easily judge it within the context of it being said, same as our current rules on "fag"

i feel similarly about the idea of being "willfully ignorant." it's pretty easy to determine if someone is being malicious from a conversation or two with an admin about the matter, really, or from reviewing things like prior post history. someone accidentally calling a character "she" when they're a he, in a single situation, where they recognize the mistake when addressed about it, would be pretty easy to dismiss as an accident. on the other hand, if you see a comment where someone goes "*she" about a trans male character, then find that they've been regularly posting slurs and have a favorites gallery full of art of furries in nazi outfits, it's probably a more than safe bet that that person is, in fact, doing it out of willful ignorance

in a nutshell, i think that most of the objections to this could be addressed with "well, leave it to the admins, like you already do for the rules in general," so i'm in favor of this. my only real objection is that i'm not sure if the list of slurs is strictly necessary when it's a case by case matter, but i don't actively disapprove of it, either, since having it written in clear terms does make it less ambiguous what's not okay in the first place at a glance. overall, then, this is good

Alright. With so many positive comments, i will just drop this here: These type of rules are a surefire 100% way to make the entire thing into an authoritarian cesspit with unhinged moderators like on FA who abuse their power based on opinion, simply booting anyone they consider "unfit" for their holy community.
2 things and lets be frank:
1. This is first and foremost a porn site. I have no idea where this supposed "community building" idea popped up from where you cant have anyone offended, but i have no clue at all whats going on inside your head when you propose this. Are you the friend of a mod? Someone who is actually socializing here? (lol?)
2. This will be as per usual and always, a slippery slope, like it always happens with your type of holier than thou advocates: You start here with the little ask for respect, then down the line you will be demanding censoring certain types of imagery, adding pronouns to images, ban waves and the rest. ITS ALLWAYS WHAT HAPPENS.

Sorry. Im absolutely for the idea of preventing harassment, which is BY DEFINITION ALREADY COVERED by the rules.
That being said: there is no need to make them specific to your kinks, preferences, identity and whatever. Its perfectly fine as they are.
These suggestions are always the first sign of circling the drain and making the entire site a useless cesspit of authoritarian censorship based on the holy icons of ever oppressed "whoever the hell is the most prominent in the oppression olympics currently".

This place is inclusive.
You are welcome here.
You should not be harassed.
Thats all.
No offense meant, but this is not a temple for LGBTQ activists. Keep your college shait in your colleges please.

Seems like a good idea to me!

millcore said:
Oh boy I have a great example: there's a popular comic by funkybun which has a transmale character in it. We can safely assume that if someone is 50+ pages in and referring to them as a "she" that they're trolling, and we in fact have. There was a while that most reports about misgendering came from comments on that comic.

It's not possible people did not start or see the comic from the start?

I'm not arguing that some was on purpose but assuming all instances are?

But yeah, willful targeted stuff should never be ok