.

well now I know that my eye muscles can feel stretched out and slightly sore

this feels incredibly weird

The reviews I am seeing on a basic glance at what I can find range from "this is simultaneously overly technical and overly vague" to "don't do this, you'll give yourself cataracts"

votp said:
The reviews I am seeing on a basic glance at what I can find range from "this is simultaneously overly technical and overly vague" to "don't do this, you'll give yourself cataracts"

Par for the course when it comes to anything that doesn't fit the Holy Trinity of orthodox medicine (surgery, drugs, and radiation), especially when it's something that works better than more expensive orthodox treatments.

These appear to be simple eye exercises. Saying they'll give you cataracts would be a lot like saying yoga will give you cancer. Claiming it gives too much information at the same time it gives you too little information smacks more of trash talk looking for a criticism than an actual issue.

I think I'll go outside.

clawstripe said:
Par for the course when it comes to anything that doesn't fit the Holy Trinity of orthodox medicine (surgery, drugs, and radiation), especially when it's something that works better than more expensive orthodox treatments.

These appear to be simple eye exercises. Saying they'll give you cataracts would be a lot like saying yoga will give you cancer. Claiming it gives too much information at the same time it gives you too little information smacks more of trash talk looking for a criticism than an actual issue.

did you write the book?

clawstripe said:
Par for the course when it comes to anything that doesn't fit the Holy Trinity of orthodox medicine (surgery, drugs, and radiation), especially when it's something that works better than more expensive orthodox treatments.

These appear to be simple eye exercises. Saying they'll give you cataracts would be a lot like saying yoga will give you cancer. Claiming it gives too much information at the same time it gives you too little information smacks more of trash talk looking for a criticism than an actual issue.

Do you believe essential oils can cure AIDs, too?

.

"Exercise your eyes and avoid eye strain by looking at things at different distances" has been a staple of eye related healthcare for decades now. The basic recommendation is really just to go and take a couple minutes every day and look out the window and then to something closer inside the room, repeat for a couple minutes. Particularly when working on a computer this can help alleviate or prevent eye strain.

If I remember correctly eye strain from not doing that doesn't permanently damage the lens or muscles, but with age the lens naturally stiffens slightly and muscles work less well is a big reason why older people start to need glasses more often.

strikerman said:
did you write the book?

Of course not. This is why I hate discussing medicine. It can make discussing politics and religion look friendly.

votp said:
Do you believe essential oils can cure AIDs, too?

Red herring fallacy.

votp said:
The reviews I am seeing on a basic glance at what I can find range from "this is simultaneously overly technical and overly vague" to "don't do this, you'll give yourself cataracts"

Joke is on you! I already had my cataracts removed! Seriously though, Doctor recommended more fixed/less-flexible lenses with focal point where I typically use my eyes (about arm's length), then wear distance lenses for driving. Plus side is I'm not near-sighted now, but now I need magnifiers and sunlight to work on CPU socket pins. ;) Yeah, scheduled YAG surgery for the film left (often happens with cataract surgery) after a few years.

clawstripe said:
Red herring fallacy.

Considering I was responding to this;

clawstripe said:
Par for the course when it comes to anything that doesn't fit the Holy Trinity of orthodox medicine (surgery, drugs, and radiation), especially when it's something that works better than more expensive orthodox treatments.

No, no it is not. This is the sort of response you get when you question essential oils, acupuncture, chiropracty, breatharians, and all the other weird "alternative medicine" shit, so the inquiry is valid. That you jumped to that raised immediate concerns about the validity of your statement due to that being a very typical response when any criticisms are levelled at woo.
Considering that continual incorrect technique when exercising pretty much any part of your body can cause catastrophic damage (bicep tendon ruptures and hernias come to mind), there are also valid concerns to be raised for any form of exercise based on what you are reading from a translated book where the translation is of debatable quality. I generally recommend against taking any medical advice from any source other than your physicians and specialists, who have access to your medical records and family history so they can ensure you do not do something that is going to injure you.
By all means, present and bring up information like this to your specialist and talk about it, however, so they can help guide you in making an optimal decision for your wellbeing.

Expecting people to run every personal fitness decision by a physician is taking things to an unreasonable extreme

votp said:
Do you believe essential oils can cure AIDs, too?

Aren't you the one who believes that? Random claims are random claims. There's no reason staring across the street would blind you unless there was some bright light shining into your eyes from that direction. Light blinds, not distance.

fenrick said:
Expecting people to run every personal fitness decision by a physician is taking things to an unreasonable extreme

This is your eyeballs we're talking about.

.

peepeepoopoo33 said:
your appeal to authority is unsettling. do you really trust these people with your life and livelihood? can you not think and trust yourself to make your own decisions?

... Do I trust the person who spent upwards of six years studying in the medical field, who has access to my personal medical records and family medical history, who has a license to perform medical proceedures under the penalty of significant legal recourse if they bungle something and injure me, with my medical treatment?

HMM, LEMME THINK ABOUT THAT.

peepeepoopoo33 said:
>That you jumped to that raised immediate concerns about the validity of your statement due to that being a very typical response when any criticisms are levelled at woo.
add homanem

ad hominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

That doesn't fit the statement, as that wasn't an appeal to feelings or prejudices, or an attack on Clawstripe's character. It was a statement that Clawstripe's initial response was along the lines of what non-professionals say when giving advice they're not qualified to give, raising valid concerns about the accuracy of the claim and the safety of the proposed exercises, and is thus not a red herring.

VotP's initial response, "Do you believe essential oils can cure AIDs, too?", would be better classified as an ad hominem, but committing a logical fallacy does not mean they're wrong, just that the expressed logic isn't valid. Whether or not the proposed exercises are a good idea or not has no bearing on whether Clawstripe believes essential oils work; but that it was given by a random internet user paraphrasing a book by some random guy, on a random internet forum for furry art, with responses similar to those given for claims about essential oils, is a good reason to be cautious, which is what they were seemingly getting at.

peepeepoopoo33 said:
>I generally recommend against taking any medical advice from any source other than your physicians and specialists
your appeal to authority is unsettling. do you really trust these people with your life and livelihood? can you not think and trust yourself to make your own decisions?

I consider people who have studied biology and medicine for years, and is licensed to practice and having to keep a strict code of ethical behavior when dealing with patients, to be a far more reliable source of information than some person who wrote a book, or from some online stranger who's paraphrasing that book. Unless I'm given reason to believe otherwise, yes I would trust doctors with my life and livelihood when it comes to matters they're specialized in, over what I think could work. In fact, I already have numerous times, and would very likely be dead now if I didn't listen to them and do what they recommended. Heart problems are a bitch.

But even if I was learned in those subjects, second and third opinions from those equally or more studied is a good thing to have. Even doctors have doctors, they don't self-diagnose and self-treat themselves (or at least, shouldn't) because of the possibility of making avoidable mistakes. It's one thing to think for yourself, it's another to have the hubris to think you know better than others on topics you may or may not be as well-versed in and aren't making a mistake they could catch.

And even then, even if they have ulterior motives in suggesting a certain line of treatment, it doesn't necessarily follow that alternative options I can do without them are inherently better.

peepeepoopoo33 said:
>continual incorrect technique when exercising pretty much any part of your body can cause catastrophic damage (bicep tendon ruptures and hernias come to mind)
continual abuse of your body will damage it.

Drinking a can of soda a day and banging your head against a cement wall are both continuous abuses of your body, but have very different long and near term effects. Claims by random people on the internet or by a book written by a random guy, shouldn't be taken at face value, it's always a good idea to talk to an expert on things about your body before doing things that can have long-lasting effects on it. I wouldn't even be comfortable making significant changes to my diet without talking to a dietician, if I could help it.

.

I will bump this thread up just because of its importance.

Effectively, its is very easy to damage your body just by sitting too much in front of a computer or writting in your smarth-phone.

I have in my desk an old IBM manual title "Ergonomics in the work in front of a screen" (reverse translation). It mentions some things like eye damage, vertebral column damage, ... and I will add, some other things like bowel damage (e.g. diverticulitis), and high blood pressure, that could happen because of that.

(EVEN when I had that information... I was neglecful and suffer a bit of all that =( ).

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B0030YFBSO

Particularly, our bodies are not designed to be sitted long periods of time. We have to do a bit of excercise / calistheics at least every 45 min - 1 hour of working or playing with computers.

Moreover... eye muscle, lense or nerve damage that cause shortsightness, farsightness, and many other illnesses of sight vary. Some are curable, some correctable, and some neither (e.g. most retinopathies). I agree - seems logic to me - that exercising the focusing muscles of the eye, and the external eye muscles, could help if the cause is to work too much focusing on a fixed distance.

Some very good advices...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPfCtJ1PX9I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K88q_oEwRS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cbuO5-9jnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBKUbnLYTs

Given the importance of this thread to long term health of my fellow furries, I bump again this thread once more.

I began to download the videos of my last post, so I myself do not forget to take more care about thse issues.