Someone uploaded a animation I did that got like a million downvotes and not one person commented why. As an artist that wants to improve, that kind of feedback leaves me nothing to work with so I can improve my work. Is it possible to require people to leave a comment for the downvote or the system rejects the downvote? I took myself of DNP because people wanted my work here but this was the reason I added myself to it in the first place. This is worse than kink shaming to me because I'm being shamed but not even in a constructive way. I'd rather someone call me gross to my face than just an empty downvote.

I don't think it's anything to do with the art itself and just that scat isn't a popular fetish. If this feature was implemented all you'd get is a slew of comments along the lines of "ewww poop gross 🤮🤮"

When I search thecapedmanlloyd -feces I can see your non-scat art has pretty decent scores.

faucet said:
I don't think it's anything to do with the art itself and just that scat isn't a popular fetish. If this feature was implemented all you'd get is a slew of comments along the lines of "ewww poop gross 🤮🤮"

When I search thecapedmanlloyd -feces I can see your non-scat art has pretty decent scores.

I dont care about the comments. I expect that but if someone comments ewww, poop gross and refuses to use their blacklist, then the mods can handle it as needed but as it stands now, I have no idea why I was downvoted. Im a completely self-taught artist and animator and never went to an art school because I couldnt afford it so I look forward to comments so I can improve my art and getting these downvotes dont tell me anything so I can learn. Im mainly talking about my animation someone posted and since I'm a self taught animator, getting feedback will help me improve so forcing people who downvote to leave a comment at least helps the artist.

No.

post #2977401

People didn't like your animation because people don't like scat.
There's nothing constructive about it.

That would encourage trolling by increasing the number of comments the troll's post gets.

crocogator said:
That would encourage trolling by increasing the number of comments the troll's post gets.

Those people are easily dealt with.

bitwolfy said:
post #2977401

People didn't like your animation because people don't like scat.
There's nothing constructive about it.

Then those people would be required to leave a comment in order to downvote, which they would be punished for not using a blacklist. Problem fixes itself and help artist that want to improve. This current system seems like the one thing here that doesnt have the high standards E6 is known for.

oh great! another artist who feels they're entitled to have their art criticized or commented on just because they got downvoted to oblivion.
Where are you people coming from and how did you even discover this site?

First it was that girl now you. Give us a break and read the site rules for once. FYI Scat is gross as literal shit, what'd you expect?

We can't leave comments like "ew what the fuck is wrong with you" because it'd obviously goes against site rules and we'd get a neutral mark, worse, a negative mark.
So to counter that, get downvoted to oblivion with no comments. It's that simple.

e621 is not the place where we tend to criticize artists work. E6 is like...like...an online museum, we look at art, like/dislike it and move on. More or less.
post #2336917

thecapedmanlloyd said:
Those people are easily dealt with.

This is going to make a lot more work for the mods. 99% of the people who downvote something don't leave a comment.

https://e621.net/mod_actions
Look at the literally hundreds of things mods do every day just for basic site functionality, and imagine if there were hundreds of negative comments being left in addition to this.

Put this in your custom CSS to solve the problem.

lafcadio said:
Put this in your custom CSS to solve the problem.

span.post-info-score, span.post-score{ display: none; }

That doesnt help me improve my art. I want to get better.

closetpossum said:
oh great! another artist who feels they're entitled to have their art criticized or commented on just because they got downvoted to oblivion.
Where are you people coming from and how did you even discover this site?

First it was that girl now you. Give us a break and read the site rules for once. FYI Scat is gross as literal shit, what'd you expect?

We can't leave comments like "ew what the fuck is wrong with you" because it'd obviously goes against site rules and we'd get a neutral mark, worse, a negative mark.
So to counter that, get downvoted to oblivion with no comments. It's that simple.

e621 is not the place where we tend to criticize artists work. E6 is like...like...an online museum, we look at art, like/dislike it and move on. More or less.
post #2336917

Forgive me for wanting to improve my art??? I dont need a echo chamber that art galleries tend to be. I actually want to improve.

ijerk said:
This is going to make a lot more work for the mods. 99% of the people who downvote something don't leave a comment.

https://e621.net/mod_actions
Look at the literally hundreds of things mods do every day just for basic site functionality, and imagine if there were hundreds of negative comments being left in addition to this.

The goal should be to help artist I would think. I care about getting better so a downvote doesnt tell me much. If people use their blacklist, then there wouldnt be a need to downvote and if they do, they are required to leave a comment, which can tell if someone isnt using their blacklist or just being an ass.

thecapedmanlloyd said:
That doesnt help me improve my art. I want to get better.

thecapedmanlloyd said:
Forgive me for wanting to improve my art??? I dont need a echo chamber that art galleries tend to be. I actually want to improve.

thecapedmanlloyd said:
The goal should be to help artist I would think. I care about getting better so a downvote doesnt tell me much. If people use their blacklist, then there wouldnt be a need to downvote and if they do, they are required to leave a comment, which can tell if someone isnt using their blacklist or just being an ass.

What you’re asking for is to prevent people from downvoting. So, apparently, you do care about the number of downvotes.

You’re not going to get constructive criticism. 100% of the comments you’ll receive will be complaining about scat.

I’ve seen your art. Well, only the non-scat ones, since I have scat blacklisted. It’s good, actually. The chances that anyone here will have genuine constructive criticism for you is very low. Most people browsing the site are not artists. You’re far above the level where the average non-artist user will be able to tell you anything you don’t already know.

So, this change you propose wouldn’t solve your problem. The downvotes actually are telling you something already: they’re telling you that most people don’t like scat. Forcing people to leave a comment would tell you the same thing: you’ll just get a bunch of comments from people telling you that they don’t like scat. You won’t get any constructive feedback, because there likely is none to give. I assure you; the downvotes you’re receiving have nothing to do with the quality of your art. It’s only about the content; the art itself is more than good enough.

My solution to the downvotes is to just ignore them. Some people will still enjoy your work, even if they are in the minority. Focus on them. Or, as suggested above, use custom CSS to remove the downvote display entirely.

My solution to the lack of constructive feedback would be to try to find some fellow artists - perhaps best to look within your own niche - and try to ask for feedback from them. Like I said, the average user won’t be able to help you improve at all. You’re at the level where only feedback from really experienced artists will actually be of any use to you.

scaliespe said:
What you’re asking for is to prevent people from downvoting. So, apparently, you do care about the number of downvotes.

You’re not going to get constructive criticism. 100% of the comments you’ll receive will be complaining about scat.

I’ve seen your art. Well, only the non-scat ones, since I have scat blacklisted. It’s good, actually. The chances that anyone here will have genuine constructive criticism for you is very low. Most people browsing the site are not artists. You’re far above the level where the average non-artist user will be able to tell you anything you don’t already know.

So, this change you propose wouldn’t solve your problem. The downvotes actually are telling you something already: they’re telling you that most people don’t like scat. Forcing people to leave a comment would tell you the same thing: you’ll just get a bunch of comments from people telling you that they don’t like scat. You won’t get any constructive feedback, because there likely is none to give. I assure you; the downvotes you’re receiving have nothing to do with the quality of your art. It’s only about the content; the art itself is more than good enough.

My solution to the downvotes is to just ignore them. Some people will still enjoy your work, even if they are in the minority. Focus on them. Or, as suggested above, use custom CSS to remove the downvote display entirely.

My solution to the lack of constructive feedback would be to try to find some fellow artists - perhaps best to look within your own niche - and try to ask for feedback from them. Like I said, the average user won’t be able to help you improve at all. You’re at the level where only feedback from really experienced artists will actually be of any use to you.

I suppose that is fair. Its not the downvotes I care about. I expect people to not like scat but like I said, I'm completely self taught so I dont know anything so when I see a downvote on a animation I did, I think there is something wrong with it, since people who use their blacklist shouldnt see it, since its tagged correctly so that tells me something is wrong or off with the animation and I want to know what that this is so I can avoid doing it later. Im not fully aware how voting works but on other platforms, getting a lot of downvote will hide or auto delete content, which doesnt help anyone who wants to see it. Does it work like that here?

thecapedmanlloyd said:
The goal should be to help artist I would think. I care about getting better so a downvote doesnt tell me much. If people use their blacklist, then there wouldnt be a need to downvote and if they do, they are required to leave a comment, which can tell if someone isnt using their blacklist or just being an ass.

Ok fine I'll bite since I'm bored at the moment and gross stuff doesn't bother me much.
Obviously you can clean up your anatomy and linework a little, you should have some decent refs for this character. Get it close to the 'most-upvoted' renditions and you'll be better off.
For your animation, your main issue is there's not much body motion outside of the few parts in focus. Look at post #2729721 (less gross for the average e6 user) and notice that every part of her keeps moving a bit because it's just realistically how that works.

If you're going to draw literal shit, you automatically take a -10x vote hit just because it's a gross fetish. You will not change this and neither will the mods. If you can produce that kind of stuff and *still* get it upvoted, eg. post #565141 that's when you know you're doing good.

OH... and...
The character you're drawing is commonly considered the 'cute and pure' waifu char for that particular game. If you don't understand why that would get you downvoted then I think we're all wasting our time here.

ijerk said:
Ok fine I'll bite since I'm bored at the moment and gross stuff doesn't bother me much.
Obviously you can clean up your anatomy and linework a little, you should have some decent refs for this character. Get it close to the 'most-upvoted' renditions and you'll be better off.
For your animation, your main issue is there's not much body motion outside of the few parts in focus. Look at post #2729721 (less gross for the average e6 user) and notice that every part of her keeps moving a bit because it's just realistically how that works.

If you're going to draw literal shit, you automatically take a -10x vote hit just because it's a gross fetish. You will not change this and neither will the mods. If you can produce that kind of stuff and *still* get it upvoted, eg. post #565141 that's when you know you're doing good.

OH... and...
The character you're drawing is commonly considered the 'cute and pure' waifu char for that particular game. If you don't understand why that would get you downvoted then I think we're all wasting our time here.

Anatomy is just hard in general. Best I can do is make it look decent. Any example you can show me of bad anatomy and linework? The bad linework might be from my hardware and bad TVs. The screen I draw with has a crack in it because I cant afford another but I'm trying to get that fixed soon. I do expect people to just hate scat stuff but if they use their blacklist, they shouldnt be seeing it anyway. For the last thing, I never played the game so I dont know. I just do what people tell me pretty much but Im a self taught animatior so I have no idea what should be moving and what shouldnt. I also work 60+ hours a week so I dont get a lot of time to polish things or it'd take me a year to finish it. FUnny thing is I agreed to do her because she was cute and I like drawing cute characters. Good to know though.

Hot take: if leaving a comment complaining about fetishes you don't like is against the rules, so should be downvoting art because it contains a fetish you don't like. Either way, if you're looking at something that could be on your blacklist but isn't, you're the one in the wrong. The fact that votes are anonymous is the biggest loophole in the "Refusing to use blacklist" rule, and as everyone here has acknowledged, it is abused routinely.

On one of the many previous occasions this topic got dragged up, somebody suggested some kind of elaborate automated blacklist enforcer for users whose downvotes all contain a specific tag. I doubt something like that would ever work properly in practice, but just like with creepy comments, a few show trials every now and then couldn't hurt.

thecapedmanlloyd said:
Anatomy is just hard in general. Best I can do is make it look decent. Any example you can show me/snip

I'm only referring to your animation of Adine, because that's the one that was downvoted a lot. Looking at your image of Sisu for example, it's actually quite good (anatomically and otherwise), probably one of the better depictions of her we have on the site and I'm glad you bothered to include an egg alt.
For examples of generally "good" animation, something like ivnis is a start; they use a bit of tweening for things like faces that don't change a lot, but most of the body has some level of hand-drawn motion in there. Yeah I know it's a lot of extra work, but that's how it is.

wat8548 said:
Hot take: if leaving a comment complaining about fetishes you don't like is against the rules, so should be downvoting art because it contains a fetish you don't like. Either way, if you're looking at something that could be on your blacklist but isn't, you're the one in the wrong. The fact that votes are anonymous is the biggest loophole in the "Refusing to use blacklist" rule, and as everyone here has acknowledged, it is abused routinely.

On one of the many previous occasions this topic got dragged up, somebody suggested some kind of elaborate automated blacklist enforcer for users whose downvotes all contain a specific tag. I doubt something like that would ever work properly in practice, but just like with creepy comments, a few show trials every now and then couldn't hurt.

I dont mind creepy comments. This is furry art, its all cringe but something to help protect artist and discourage this kind of downvoting should be something they just do. The standards are very high here for everything else except the one thing that matters. I notice it auto corrects tags and such when submitting and I would think that is a harder system to write. I would think something like a popup box saying "in order to leave a downvote, you must leave a comment or the downvote will be removed" would work or even requiring people to have an account. I dont need to see who downvoted something but this should be something the admins can see. I think something needs to be fixed with how voting work.

ijerk said:
I'm only referring to your animation of Adine, because that's the one that was downvoted a lot. Looking at your image of Sisu for example, it's actually quite good (anatomically and otherwise), probably one of the better depictions of her we have on the site and I'm glad you bothered to include an egg alt.
For examples of generally "good" animation, something like ivnis is a start; they use a bit of tweening for things like faces that don't change a lot, but most of the body has some level of hand-drawn motion in there. Yeah I know it's a lot of extra work, but that's how it is.

I do try with characters. I try to make them look as close as possible and that Sisu took me like a two months to draw because I needed good refs to make it work and you're welcome on the egg alt. I try to make them if Im making alts so those not into scat can still have something to look at. The only thing I can use is Flash and Flash is just bad at animating. I cant do a lot of things I want but its the only thing I know how to use. I want to look at other animation software to see if I can get some better looking. Learning Blender now so I dont have to worry about drawing things. 2D animation takes a lot of discipline and I dont think I have the skill to make something look that good.

thecapedmanlloyd said:
I would think something like a popup box saying "in order to leave a downvote, you must leave a comment or the downvote will be removed" would work or even requiring people to have an account.

The point everyone's trying to make to you is that all of the people who are downvoting are doing so in full knowledge of the fact that they're breaking the rules. Asking them to incriminate themselves will get nowhere and likely just make a bunch more work for the already overworked moderators. Either you'll get a crapton of abusive comments or, the more likely outcome in my opinion, meaningless comments posted for no other reason than to leave a downvote will become a whole new genre of spam.

(Also, I'm pretty sure voting does require you to have an account?)

thecapedmanlloyd said:
I dont need to see who downvoted something but this should be something the admins can see.

They already can, otherwise the site couldn't keep track of what you've voted on.

wat8548 said:
The point everyone's trying to make to you is that all of the people who are downvoting are doing so in full knowledge of the fact that they're breaking the rules. Asking them to incriminate themselves will get nowhere and likely just make a bunch more work for the already overworked moderators. Either you'll get a crapton of abusive comments or, the more likely outcome in my opinion, meaningless comments posted for no other reason than to leave a downvote will become a whole new genre of spam.

(Also, I'm pretty sure voting does require you to have an account?)

They already can, otherwise the site couldn't keep track of what you've voted on.

Well, I hope they do something then.

wat8548 said:
The fact that votes are anonymous is the biggest loophole in the "Refusing to use blacklist" rule, and as everyone here has acknowledged, it is abused routinely.

wat8548 said:
The point everyone's trying to make to you is that all of the people who are downvoting are doing so in full knowledge of the fact that they're breaking the rules.

w h a t

Listen, admins aren't mind police, out here trying to punish people for wrongthink.
If someone wants to leave a dislike on a post, that's their business, no matter the reason.

The whole "complaining instead of blacklisting" thing is not allowed because it annoys people and starts arguments. That's pretty much it.