I've been trying to find males with breasts but it's either larger males with moobs/large pecs or it gets tagged as gynomorph, even if the gynomorph tag doesn't apply due to the masculine physique of the character (example: https://e621.net/posts/1772448), where the description for the gynomorph tag states that (highlight mine) "A gynomorph is a character who is entirely female in appearance but has a penis, balls, or both instead of a pussy." Would it be possible for this to be fixed?

deejaydragon said:
I've been trying to find males with breasts but it's either larger males with moobs/large pecs or it gets tagged as gynomorph, even if the gynomorph tag doesn't apply due to the masculine physique of the character (example: https://e621.net/posts/1772448), where the description for the gynomorph tag states that (highlight mine) "A gynomorph is a character who is entirely female in appearance but has a penis, balls, or both instead of a pussy." Would it be possible for this to be fixed?

Are you saying that there are no muscular_females or muscular gynomorphs? There are no mentions of excluding characters with "masculine physique" in the female and gynomorph wikis.

Regardless, we never tag breasts on male characters, unless they are gynomorph. You can try searching for male ~pecs -moobs -muscular_male -gynomorph.

What TheGreatWolfgang said. being muscular isn't a trait thats exclusively to males, andromorphs, and maleherms

More practically, you can get some results for beard ~gynomorph ~breasts solo or short_hair muscular ~breasts ~gynomorph solo or whatever tertiary sexual characteristic you like. Also try male_(lore) ~breasts ~gynomorph solo, though that's much less consistent.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Are you saying that there are no muscular_females or muscular gynomorphs? There are no mentions of excluding characters with "masculine physique" in the female and gynomorph wikis.

Regardless, we never tag breasts on male characters, unless they are gynomorph. You can try searching for male ~pecs -moobs -muscular_male -gynomorph.

No, I'm not saying that, nor did I even suggest it. You know very well what I mean by 'masculine physique'. If you don't, go look up pictures of muscular women and muscular men and see the difference in physical appearance. As for your second point, maybe you should start.

dubsthefox said:
What TheGreatWolfgang said. being muscular isn't a trait thats exclusively to males, andromorphs, and maleherms

Not what I said.

deejaydragon said:
Not what I said.

Ahh. Now I get what you said. Ok. you are right. ^{_{(Edit:it can be misleading.)}} But how would you write it instead?

I thought you meant:
Gynomorphs with muscles -> males with breasts

personally that doesn't look like a man to me, but a muscular gyno. Sauced it, it's also not considered male lore wise either. I don't know buds, best thing I can think for you is the huge_pecs

deejaydragon said:
No, I'm not saying that, nor did I even suggest it. You know very well what I mean by 'masculine physique'. If you don't, go look up pictures of muscular women and muscular men and see the difference in physical appearance. As for your second point, maybe you should start.

I think you would benefit from reading our gender tagging guidelines. Masculine/feminine body types are used as a final determinant for gender only if there are no breasts or genitals visible.

thegreatwolfgang said:
...Masculine/feminine body types are used as a final determinant for gender only if there are no breasts or genitals visible.

Yeah. I think the wiki is written wrong: "A gynomorph is a character who is entirely female in appearance..." If there were a perfectly masculine character with breasts and a visible penis, I'd still want it to be in the same category as feminine gynomorphs. Gender tags are too much trouble to give leeway in the interpretation.

To put it another way, regardless of what the wiki says or what our ""gender"" tags sound like, in practice gynomorph only indicates the presence or absence of genitalia/breasts. Use other tags to distinguish other traits.

BTW, I also found manly, which seems like the right tag for post #1772448. If you have a collection of images of masculine gynomorphs, please apply manly to them, so others can find them. Be the change you want to see in the world! Edit: manly is specifically in opposition to girly, which is only meant for males. I am an idiot. Do your own research. This does not constitute legal advice. haaaah...

matrixmash said:
Yeah. I think the wiki is written wrong: "A gynomorph is a character who is entirely female in appearance..." If there were a perfectly masculine character with breasts and a visible penis, I'd still want it to be in the same category as feminine gynomorphs. Gender tags are too much trouble to give leeway in the interpretation.

To put it another way, regardless of what the wiki says or what our ""gender"" tags sound like, in practice gynomorph only indicates the presence or absence of genitalia/breasts. Use other tags to distinguish other traits.

No, female =/= feminine (or girly). Mainly, Female means to have breasts and only a pussy.
Likewise, male =/= masculine (or manly). You can have feminine-looking males as well, provided that they don't have breasts and only have a penis.

We only use masculinity and femininity when there is absolutely no way of determining their breast or genital type, such as the case of clothed characters (e.g., clothed flat_chested female -nude -young -pussy).

For intersex characters, however, it is true that you will need to know both their breast and genital type to be able to determine that they are indeed intersex, otherwise they would fall under male or female based on their manly or girly body type (or ambiguous_gender if no gender traits are visible).

I’ve brought this up before, but I think this is a good example for making my point again: I think it would be helpful to be able to tag characters as masculine , feminine , or androgynous , regardless of gender.

On a note more related to the discussion, there does appear to be a (very underutilized) gynecomastia tag, which is the technical term for when a male person has developed breasts. That kinda seems like something that would eventually just be aliased away to gynomorph or breasts or something, but… until then, enjoy those five posts with males with breasts, I suppose. Though, perhaps the tag you’re looking for is simply moobs. They’re… pretty similar, really, and that tag is actually in active use.

Though, on second thought, I think it might be worth considering preserving that tag, or something akin to it. Here’s my point:

There are six gender tags on this site (minus ambiguous). They’re roughly categorized into either masculine or feminine: male, andromorph, and maleherm for the former; and female, gynomorph, and herm for the latter. The first three are intended to have masculine bodies, whereas the latter three are intended to have feminine bodies. In this sense, the current wiki definition of gynomorph is logical. However, this does leave what would technically be a fully masculine character with breasts with no niche.

Let’s compare the gynomorph tag’s opposite, andromorph. That’s a male body with female genitalia. However, it’s the opposite tag only if we consider gynomorph to be a female body with male genitalia, essentially as the wiki describes it. Including male bodies with breasts in the gynomorph tag presents this problem: the opposite is not true of the andromorph tag. A fully female body without breasts is not an andromorph! That’s just a flat chested female. The reason that the flat_chested tag is necessary is because many real-life human females actually are flat-chested. It doesn’t make sense to say that they’re not female because their breasts are too small to discern/altogether nonexistent. Also, many artists who like to depict their anthro characters with anatomically correct genitalia will usually omit the breasts as well if it’s a non-mammal female character, since only mammals have mammaries in real life. We even have the non-mammal breasts tag specifically for identifying the biologically confusing situation of a non-mammal character depicted with breasts. This doesn’t make those characters andromorphs any more than a cloaca makes an anthro character count as feral. In these cases, the difference between an andromorph and a flat-chested female is whether or not the body has masculine proportions/appearance or feminine proportions/appearance. You know, shoulder/hip ratio, thigh gap, jawline, prominent eyelashes, et cetera. Breasts are not the only difference between masculine and feminine. And no, it’s not musculature either, as someone suggested. A muscular female and a muscular male still have very different proportions. Furthermore, the flat chested wiki includes gynomorph characters as valid recipients of the tag. The same arguments I made for flat-chested females above also apply to gynomorphs. Presumably, the difference between a flat-chested gynomorph and a girly male is not just breasts (does it really make sense to differentiate genders on the basis of a single non-genital characteristic?), but whether or not the character has male proportions or female proportions. All the things I mentioned above still apply: shoulder/hip ratio, thigh gap, jawline, prominent eyelashes, et cetera. Girly males should still have male proportions, and gynomorphs, logically, female proportions. In this sense, breasts are only a single characteristic out of many that goes into a feminine body type.

So now the question is… why don’t we have a male counterpart to flat_chested? That is, a tag for a male with breasts who isn’t feminine enough to be considered a gynomorph. I think it’s necessary to keep the consistency of the gynomorph tag in relation to the other gender tags, namely male and andromorph. As I stated above, the flat-chested tag exists because that is an actual characteristic of some females. Likewise, some male people in real life actually do have breasts. The difference, I suppose, is that it’s considered a disorder, but it does exist. As I stated at the very beginning of this post, it’s called gynecomastia. From the wiki page, which someone wrote three years ago:

Gynecomastia is an endocrine system disorder in which a noncancerous increase in the size of male breast tissue occurs. Wikipedia

Note that the page differentiates between that and adipomastia, which is probably more akin to what we describe here as moobs. Basically: adipomastia = fat deposits resembling breasts; gynecomastia = actual development of breasts on a male.

However, with all that being said, I think… there’s probably not any real discernible difference between the two from a TWYS perspective. So, here’s my proposed solution, if anyone has actually bothered to read this far down and/or still cares:

• Any character with male proportions and male genitalia (if visible) as well as breasts gets tagged male + moobs. Mention that in the howto:tag genders page.
• Alias gynecomastia to moobs.
• (this is where it gets controversial) have moobs imply breasts. After all, that’s what they are from a tagging perspective. Sure, most of them are probably just fat deposits that resemble breasts, but some (gynecomastia) are actual breasts. But, furthermore, the difference between the two isn’t really recognizable following TWYS. Essentially, they’re breasts either way. Even looking through the moobs tag now, I see many things that look just like female breasts on a male body (minus a bunch of things that probably should have been tagged big_pecs instead). I mean, post #3160035?! I would never call that a gynomorph, personally, but those are definitely boobs.