https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGPe1jD-qY

Here, a very interesting video, specially for artists that want to dedicate to Art as a way of living, and the underlying psychological and economical forces in favor and against it.

The video is interesting, but also because who is talking on it. I would not feign innocence, claiming not to know that Jordan Peterson is a controversial character among some people, that believe that he is a sort of "right winger conservative"... which in my opinion, he is not. He is, right now, the most viewed thinker in English language for what I read. I think there are reasons, positive reasons for that, against what some people choose to believe.

And in the very least, there is nothing aggressive, offensive or "right wingish" in this video. Come'on, give it a chance, and see it.

;-).

Although, maybe, we will have time, if you want, to clarify in the comments, which I would be very pleased to attempt.

And after you see it, if you see it... what do you think? I this a kind of topics and videos that are proper to discuss in this forum? And if not, why not.

As you see, I am also willing to risk a bit, in order to make this forum more interesting.

;-).

mexicanfurry said:
I would not feign innocence, claiming not to know that Jordan Peterson is a controversial character among some people, that believe that he is a sort of "right winger conservative"... which in my opinion, he is not.

i call your bluff

strikerman said:
i call your bluff

Thank you for answering.... I would bring some excerpts from your source:

"He has stated that he is commonly mistaken as right-wing..."

"... Peterson has characterized himself politically as a "classic British liberal"...

/* Ok, taking into account, as it should be, that "liberal" means something different in the UK, Germany, Mexico, etc... that in the USA */

"... while Peterson has abjured any connection to modern liberalism or conservatism "...

Summarizing... he sees himself not as a right-winger or a political conservative (in the "loaded" version of hte terms).

On the other hand....

Off course the left (the more left, the more so) view Jordan Peterson as a "fascist", and the right, urged of thinkers of weight want to have him among themselves.

So you will see him, as is common in these days, depending on your own political position.

But please, if you have more, I am interested. If you could find Jordan Peterson saying blattant racist (o similar) statements, which I don't know if they exists, you will have something of more weight from my point of view.

This feels like you're trying to bait people into talking about politics, and it's not even subtle.

mexicanfurry said:
[...] he is a sort of "right winger conservative"... which in my opinion, he is not. [...]

And in the very least, there is nothing aggressive, offensive or "right wingish" in this video. Come'on, give it a chance, and see it.

mexicanfurry said:
Summarizing... he sees himself not as a right-winger or a political conservative (in the "loaded" version of hte terms).
[...]
Off course the left (the more left, the more so) view Jordan Peterson as a "fascist", and the right, urged of thinkers of weight want to have him among themselves.
[...]
But please, if you have more, I am interested. If you could find Jordan Peterson saying blattant racist (o similar) statements, which I don't know if they exists, you will have something of more weight from my point of view.

Even if this were the appropriate forum for this discussion: this is not how you start a good-faith discussion.

The b8 is so obvious its glowing. But even if it wasnt literally no talking points could even be made.

He was kicked out of his tenured position at the University he worked at for being a wackjob and spends all day being afraid of trans people. His entire sermon can be broken down into "i am personally upset that i am not getting trophies for cleaning my room oh gosh oh no someone used a gendered pronoun whatever will I do."

Hes a crack addict wackjob who made a fortune scamming people with fake self help books telling them their lives can be better ehile he snorts away the money people gave him because they were too fucking stupid to be able to tell hes scamming them.

There is no discussion to be had here.

So called fans of this dude just go "but please just listen to him!!" Over and over again as if he doesnt just repeatedly regurgitate the same hateful schlock over and over, because theyre so dug into his shitty rhetoric that they cant see sunlight. And they dig in harder into it because theybe invested so much time and effort into his evangelism that theyre willing to keep throwing good money after bad because they cant will themselves to admit they got conned.

I would like to know why you think that a failed psychology professor would know more about making money off of art than people who have actually been doing it for decades.

Oh, right, I forgot, Peterson fanboys think they know better than anyone about everything because they're supergeniuses with their facts and their logic.

thehuskyk9 said:
This feels like you're trying to bait people into talking about politics, and it's not even subtle.

Hello, thehuskyk9....

I reather believe, that some things are extremely politicized.

I didn't believed, honestly, that this will go to this mood, this fast. I believed that we will start by the contents of the video. Did anyone even see the video? =(.

Yes, I knew that Jordan Peterson is demonized, "officially", but I believed there could be an open discussion about if he "deserves" it or not.

What is to win? I believe that he is a source of well thought and sensible "wisdom", that as I believe, helps millions of people arround the World. His recipe has to do with taking personal responsibility, take the reigns of your life, to analize and understand yourself better. But... most the people in this forum does even know that?

I honestly believe that I "owed" him something, because I think I benefited a lot from his lectures.

lafcadio said:
Even if this were the appropriate forum for this discussion

I suspected it was not, now I see it is not.

this is not how you start a good-faith discussion.

I wanted to start a discussion. I honestly cannot judge too objectively my own "good faith".

I contradict very much "the common knowledge" of this site in this theme, I see. But then, I repeat that he is the most listened author in English Language nowadays. I guess that my "good-faith" is not so deviated a lot from a great mean, so to speak.

demesejha said:
The b8 is so obvious its glowing. But even if it wasnt literally no talking points could even be made.

He was kicked out of his tenured position at the University he worked at for being a wackjob and spends all day being afraid of trans people. His entire sermon can be broken down into "i am personally upset that i am not getting trophies for cleaning my room oh gosh oh no someone used a gendered pronoun whatever will I do."

I don't believe he is "against trans people" in the sense he spends a lot of time talking about them.

Certainly, as I know, Jordan Peterson was just an University Professor that recorded his lectures. Then, there was this scandal about him not agreeing to calling trans people with invented pronouns, that really don't even know are pronunciable.

If I were to summarize what he said about the issue, was something:

- I would have caledl them as they want, if they were just so nice as to ask it politelly.

But no, if you would have listened Jordan Peterson, you would know that the "trans issue", is like 0.000001% of his lectures.

Hes a crack addict wackjob who made a fortune scamming people with fake self help books telling them their lives can be better ehile he snorts away the money people gave him because they were too fucking stupid to be able to tell hes scamming them.

There is no discussion to be had here.

So called fans of this dude just go "but please just listen to him!!" Over and over again as if he doesnt just repeatedly regurgitate the same hateful schlock over and over, because theyre so dug into his shitty rhetoric that they cant see sunlight. And they dig in harder into it because theybe invested so much time and effort into his evangelism that theyre willing to keep throwing good money after bad because they cant will themselves to admit they got conned.

I knew a pot smoker, in some Mexican forum - proud of growng that garbage in emply Nestlé milk cans - that was very vocal against Jordan Peterson, and called him a junkie or something. He was also fantazing on "killing all normies", creating a kind of Cheka and even he already imagened a name for it: "Félix Dzerzhinski Comitee".... xD.

Don't know, just digressing... that he sounded much like you.

;).

Well.... It was a failed theme.

Epic-ly.

For me, no problem if the Admins "desapear" it altogether.

.

mexicanfurry said:
Hello, thehuskyk9....

I reather believe, that some things are extremely politicized.

I didn't believed, honestly, that this will go to this mood, this fast. I believed that we will start by the contents of the video. Did anyone even see the video? =(.

Yes, I knew that Jordan Peterson is demonized, "officially", but I believed there could be an open discussion about if he "deserves" it or not.

What is to win? I believe that he is a source of well thought and sensible "wisdom", that as I believe, helps millions of people arround the World. His recipe has to do with taking personal responsibility, take the reigns of your life, to analize and understand yourself better. But... most the people in this forum does even know that?

I honestly believe that I "owed" him something, because I think I benefited a lot from his lectures.

I did watch half of it, I'm a curious dude and wanted to listen what he had to say with what free time I have left. As an artist myself, there are some things he said that I agree with but a lot of things that I disagree with. I won't get into the politics of it, but I don't like how he groups "creative" people onto one side while the other side can never be creative. Artists are people, each one has their own personal beliefs and upbringings, and not all of them agree with each other politically. Therefore, to try to say that "only people on this side of politics are artists" presents such a strong fallacy within his logic, because that is clearly not the case if you've been involved within the art industry long enough to notice it. I also disagree with him saying that some occupations don't allow for creative thinking. If you ever want to complete anything in any field, it requires some creative thinking. Even something as small as typing up a paper or completing a task requires some creative thinking, especially if you run into an obstacle and have to find a new way to complete that task. So I will say that he isn't that far off-the-mark, but I wouldn't recommend taking art advice from him, due to him not having experience in that field. That's just my opinion.

mexicanfurry said:
Then, there was this scandal about him not agreeing to calling trans people with invented pronouns, that really don't even know are pronunciable.

Admittedly I'm not Mexican, but I can pronounce "they" and "them" perfectly fine.

(Oh and apparently he's also a climate denier, which means he disagrees with your right to continued existence too.)

mexicanfurry said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGPe1jD-qY

Here, a very interesting video, specially for artists that want to dedicate to Art as a way of living, and the underlying psychological and economical forces in favor and against it.

The video is interesting, but also because who is talking on it. I would not feign innocence, claiming not to know that Jordan Peterson is a controversial character among some people, that believe that he is a sort of "right winger conservative"... which in my opinion, he is not. He is, right now, the most viewed thinker in English language for what I read. I think there are reasons, positive reasons for that, against what some people choose to believe.

And in the very least, there is nothing aggressive, offensive or "right wingish" in this video. Come'on, give it a chance, and see it.

;-).

Although, maybe, we will have time, if you want, to clarify in the comments, which I would be very pleased to attempt.

And after you see it, if you see it... what do you think? I this a kind of topics and videos that are proper to discuss in this forum? And if not, why not.

As you see, I am also willing to risk a bit, in order to make this forum more interesting.

;-).

If you would respect our time and tell us what you'd like to talk about, instead of pointing to a 50 minute video, I would have given this conversation the time of day.

Otherwise, this is some emperor's new clothes shit.

"Ah, these clothes are invisible to those who are stupid."
'O-oh yes! Yes I see them! They are magnificent!'

No. The emperor was naked the whole time.

Running a conversation in circles, occasionally claiming that what he is saying is rooted in biology or whatever, throwing around words like 'intellectual discussion' - that all sounds veeery impressive -

I'm not gonna pretend this man isn't naked. He sounds like a hack. Don't need to listen to 50 minutes of babbling to figure that out.

And you're just as transparent as he is. Say what you really mean. I'd have more respect for you.