the female protagonist in this group of comics is being tagged jasmine but is not being separated from the Aladdin character of the same name. someone can fix that but it's not going to be me!

jasmin_(*insert artist name here*)

Moved them all to jasmine_ivory since the second page of the comic lists it as her full name. It'll probably still get tagged jasmine but now we at least have some way to fix it now.

Since the Aladdin ones should actually be under jasmine_(aladdin) I moved those out as well and made jasmine into a disambiguation page. There's still ~70 posts with jasmine, but that's better than over 100.

parasprite said:
Moved them all to jasmine_ivory since the second page of the comic lists it as her full name. It'll probably still get tagged jasmine but now we at least have some way to fix it now.

Since the Aladdin ones should actually be under jasmine_(aladdin) I moved those out as well and made jasmine into a disambiguation page. There's still ~70 posts with jasmine, but that's better than over 100.

Excellent work. This is the direction we're going with these type of situations now, and it looks great.

furrypickle said:
Excellent work. This is the direction we're going with these type of situations now, and it looks great.

So that's the official line? To make the site harder to use?
It makes sense in this case, since there's so many Jasmines and there was no clear majority. But as I said in the other thread, moving the Regular Show characters over from the basic tags to disambiguations just forces the users into jumping through unnecessary hoops. How many are going to know to search for the longer versions instead of Mordecai and Rigby? Not a whole lot of them.

Genjar said:
So that's the official line? To make the site harder to use?
It makes sense in this case, since there's so many Jasmines and there was no clear majority. But as I said in the other thread, moving the Regular Show characters over from the basic tags to disambiguations just forces the users into jumping through unnecessary hoops. How many are going to know to search for the longer versions instead of Mordecai and Rigby? Not a whole lot of them.

IMO long names is a problem that's better solved by supporting autocompletion of tag names.

Genjar said:
So that's the official line? To make the site harder to use?
It makes sense in this case, since there's so many Jasmines and there was no clear majority. But as I said in the other thread, moving the Regular Show characters over from the basic tags to disambiguations just forces the users into jumping through unnecessary hoops. How many are going to know to search for the longer versions instead of Mordecai and Rigby? Not a whole lot of them.

It's not like "Mordecai" and "Rigby" are even common names. An odd choice IMO.

savageorange said:
IMO long names is a problem that's better solved by supporting autocompletion of tag names.

Despite there being no consistency with tagging on inkbunny (and the blacklist being really cumbersome to work with), I'll admit that was one of the better features of that site.

Genjar said:
So that's the official line? To make the site harder to use?
It makes sense in this case, since there's so many Jasmines and there was no clear majority. But as I said in the other thread, moving the Regular Show characters over from the basic tags to disambiguations just forces the users into jumping through unnecessary hoops. How many are going to know to search for the longer versions instead of Mordecai and Rigby? Not a whole lot of them.

Actually, the opposite (of making it harder to use) seems to be true.

As the site has tripled, that older way of handling these situations has caused increased confusion and navigation problems. This second strategy solves those problems while also being better for situations where a common name is shared by 20 artists/characters/copyrights, with at least 2-5 of them having a decent-sized fanbase and regular searchers looking for them by that name.

This strategy keeps the main tag mostly empty, which in turn causes the site to suggest several disambiguated tags above the results when searching, which helps people find the right tag they were looking for. But even more important, it allows us to turn the wiki page for that main name tag into a names index for all of the more specific names (characters/artists/etc) which searchers are trying to find. This way, no matter which one they're looking for, they no longer have to play guess-the-tag (trying to guess a name tag is hell and unreliable even for those who know how).

The old way only helped one set of fans a tiny bit while making it even harder for everyone else to find the other things by that name. With the main tag kept full of one character's massive amounts of art, it also made it harder to spot a tag mess growing until it had reached nightmare-levels-to-fix. During that time, that growing tag mess would still clutter up the search results for that most popular character, which would actually inconvenience the only group of users it "benefited." This messy tag use was because no one else could find the other tags for characters with the same name. So people would commonly use the main tag by default for everything.

So on the surface, it looked good. But that older method actually 1, caused inaccurate search results for that popular character because it could never stay clean, 2, caused a navigation impediment to everyone looking for second-most-popular-characters (which increase in number every year), 3, caused a massive tag mess over time so it was far from sustainable...and 4, actually having to sort past that high volume of images (the most popular use) to find the exceptions which constantly fell into it was undoubtedly one of the hardest ways of trying to maintain the tag from a maintenance perspective.

What it boils down to is that the site has outgrown the days when that old way used to work well. It just flat out worked better as a policy when the site was much smaller and main name tags had only one well known official character, (and maybe a fursona or two, which no one was looking for. Or they already knew that specific tag by heart because it was their own character). But now, with wider content, broader userbase, much higher search traffic, etc that old way was causing more problems every year. It was actually confusing searchers, making all of the other character tags harder to find, and creating nasty tag messes that would build up for years before they become obvious enough to fix (and meanwhile would dilute the effectiveness of character searches). And all for what? Save only one of those fanbases an extra click? As is evidenced by things like twilight_sparkle_(mlp) and minerva_mink, people do learn the individual tag for their character fairly quickly. And when the tag is kept mostly empty and the wiki is made into a names index, a surprising amount of people will self-correct and use the right tag the first time after only a small learning curve. Meanwhile, the few things falling into the main tag are obvious and easy to fix, and the bulk of all these images stays clean. It makes the site is more accessible, more navigable, and makes it easier to use for a wider amount of users including the constant influx of brand new users.

So yes, it is the direction we're going. There is a reason why neither twilight_sparkle_(mlp), twilight_(series), twilight_princess or sunsets were given the main twilight tag for themselves even though all of those are commonly searched. That older method does not work very well when dealing with large traffic numbers, a large userbase and multiple franchises/characters/artists that are known well enough to have people searching for them. This other method that we're going towards is not perfect, but it does a far better job of handling what the site has become, instead of the smaller place it used to be.

savageorange said:
IMO long names is a problem that's better solved by supporting autocompletion of tag names.

Autocompletion suggestions would be a nice addition to the site, especially for searches. Has that ever been brought up on the feature suggestions thread? Our devs get kept so busy that there's a lot of things that get stuck at the end of a very long list of great ideas. But it'd be nice to at least get it on the list.

furrypickle said:
This strategy keeps the main tag mostly empty, which in turn causes the site to suggest several disambiguated tags above the results when searching, which helps people find the right tag they were looking for.

Only if they're searching for one single tag. But combine it with anything else, and there's no suggestions. Such as in that Mordecai Rigby example that I used: that finds nothing, so users need to go digging through the master tag list or wiki to find out exactly what they're supposed to search for. That is, if they don't simply assume that there's nothing to be found, and move on.

Most users don't use the wiki or the master tag list. Even some of the admins don't, from what I've heard.

It's not comparable with twilight_sparkle_(mlp), because that's actually aliased with the basic tag (twilight_sparkle). Doesn't matter which one you search for or tag, the results are the same.

furrypickle said:
Autocompletion suggestions would be a nice addition to the site, especially for searches. Has that ever been brought up on the feature suggestions thread? Our devs get kept so busy that there's a lot of things that get stuck at the end of a very long list of great ideas. But it'd be nice to at least get it on the list.

Okay, done.