I know a majority of furries in the fandom lean towards Athiesm or Agnostic theism.
I personally am a Agnostic theist. SO I don't really believe in a Heaven, Hell or God.

But a certain thing I do believe, just because, it just "FEELS" right. Is the matter of reincarnation.
I feel like I apply a scientific element to it. Like We're all made of matter right?

So wouldn't the matter that makes us just get recycled into a newborn body?
Just a cycle of rebirthing matter over and over.

But if HELL exists I kinda want to go there. Because when it comes to hell I don't see it in the Christian or Catholic viewpoint. The way I see hell
is that it's just a more anarchic version of Earth. So maybe the entire Hellscape is just one big Ghetto and everywhere you go has the safety of a dark alley at midnight.
and that it's tinted red. Could be a hot place or very cold. Dunno. Maybe has seasons too.

Like, idk. Hell sounds very interesting than Heaven, Heaven seems boring. TRANQUIL...but tranquility is boring...I like the sound of the chaos Hell bring.

Let me know what you guy think, I'd like to know your thoughts, if you would.

If the Christian and Catholic have it their way, everyone on this ite i going to hell anyway...o we should throw one hell of a party!

closetpossum said:
If the Christian and Catholic have it their way, everyone on this ite i going to hell anyway...o we should throw one hell of a party!

Well, maybe not everybody. There's safe art on here that people... but let's be honest they probably look for yiff after...

I don't believe in life after death. I used to be super Christian back then and was scared of hell and that kind of stuff. Decided to leave the faith when I got older because I couldn't believe that any god could send someone to hell to be tortured forever for sins that are not even bad as murder such as being a yiff enthusiast. I respect people's decisions to be Christian though and I even respect street preacher's freedom of expression to do some hellfire preaching. We had a street preacher come to my university campus over a month ago and I saw that a large crowd of students was forming around him and they were all shouting at him to leave the campus because he had some signs with a list of sins and stuff. Honestly, that was so embarrassing to see. I felt bad for the dude because as an ex-Christian I can see where he is coming from.

As for reincarnation, I don't know to be honest. It's not something I ever think about, but I'm open to the possibility.

So maybe the entire Hellscape is just one big Ghetto and everywhere you go has the safety of a dark alley at midnight

Hell no, I'd rather go to Christian hell.

If I die and cease to be, then it's not my problem anymore.
If I die and there's life after death, it is at the very least a chance to start anew and hopefully do better.
If I die and am judged by an omniscient god, it logically follows they'd have known the events of my life before they happened, so if my atheism or my behavior bothers them, it's their fault, not mine.
If I die and am judged by a fallible god or pantheon, then GG, there is no set of decisions that guarantees I gain the approval of an unknown number of unknowable gods.

Just make me god when I die and everybody's happy.

"Every cradle asks us, 'Whence?' and every coffin, 'Whither?' The poor barbarian, weeping above his dead, can answer these questions as intelligently as the robed priest of the most authentic creed."
—Robert Ingersoll

I don't see any real hard evidence of the supernatural, and that includes any sort of afterlife. In large part, it's meant to be a convenient cope as part of many religions which conveniently makes absolutely no demands of the ruling classes. For instance, if you're poor and slaving away to barely survive, just wait until you die! Then you'll find your mansion in the afterlife! Plus the threat of hell has historically been very useful to people in power to maintain control - obey or else.

Matter changes constantly, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will ever again be in a form that gives you (in whatever Ship of Theseus solution can be said to be you) consciousness once more. You could very easily just make some soil a bit more fertile and later on, it's used to grow corn due to the US's extremely heavy corn subsidies.

I'm not sure if I even want an afterlife, but if one were forced upon me, I'd prefer one that let me reduce the suffering of others. That said, I wouldn't want it to look like something made by Randy Stair.

theaurorabear2 said:
I don't believe in life after death. I used to be super Christian back then and was scared of hell and that kind of stuff. Decided to leave the faith when I got older because I couldn't believe that any god could send someone to hell to be tortured forever for sins that are not even bad as murder such as being a yiff enthusiast. I respect people's decisions to be Christian though and I even respect street preacher's freedom of expression to do some hellfire preaching. We had a street preacher come to my university campus over a month ago and I saw that a large crowd of students was forming around him and they were all shouting at him to leave the campus because he had some signs with a list of sins and stuff. Honestly, that was so embarrassing to see. I felt bad for the dude because as an ex-Christian I can see where he is coming from.

As for reincarnation, I don't know to be honest. It's not something I ever think about, but I'm open to the possibility.

Hell no, I'd rather go to Christian hell.

The thing to bear in mind about people like that is they get validation from opposition and it makes them feel as though their cause is just. Which is incredibly stupid - something's truthfulness has nothing to do with its popularity - but that's how they view things. So, militant opposition like that, while understandable, perhaps isn't the best tactical move. It's best to try to oppose them in a way that takes away their validation. https://www.dailydot.com/irl/man-ruins-anti-choice-protest-with-sign/ Here's a really good example. (Hell, some people do similar things with sticker campaigns, e.g. anti-JW stickers in heavily populated areas.)

I'd describe myself as agnostic. If there is an existence after this one, I'd hope it's just reincarnation in a universe with a different set of rules.
It'd be like going from story to story.

closetpossum said:
But a certain thing I do believe, just because, it just "FEELS" right. Is the matter of reincarnation.
I feel like I apply a scientific element to it. Like We're all made of matter right?

So wouldn't the matter that makes us just get recycled into a newborn body?
Just a cycle of rebirthing matter over and over.

The scientific element is there for sure but is more complex than simply being composed of matter.
A number of wrenches are thrown into this idea when we consider things like long-term retention of matter (as opposed to something like waste products), staying in a biotic system at all, the change of molecules are your body decays, your exact definition of reincarnation,etc.

That said, reincarnation makes sense to me. Theoretically if nothing else. I think if we consider reincarnation as "the continuation of existence on this physical plane", then it's most likely an inevitability.
That's assuming the universe resets and has another big bang after the big crunch or whatever. And if that's the case, it's only a matter of time until life forms again.
And if that's true, the particles that you're made up off reforming into another being is a matter of odds/time.
Of course, we're well beyond talking about ridiculously long timescales at this point, but still. Doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't actually exist.

closetpossum said:
If the Christian and Catholic have it their way, everyone on this ite i going to hell anyway...o we should throw one hell of a party!

That's plain wrong. Only those who refuse Jesus' help and those who commit an extensive amount of sins, cardinal sins especially murder and theft, will go to hell. Idiot fundamentalists don't know how their own religion work.
Of the deadly sins, Lust is often seen as the least deplorable. In Dante's inferno, that is the second highest plane/hell after the limbo.

wolfmanfur said:
That's plain wrong. Only those who refuse Jesus' help and those who commit an extensive amount of sins, cardinal sins especially murder and theft, will go to hell. Idiot fundamentalists don't know how their own religion work.
Of the deadly sins, Lust is often seen as the least deplorable. In Dante's inferno, that is the second highest plane/hell after the limbo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_sin#Actions_constituting_grave_matter

e621 is pretty progressive, so, abortion, adultery (polyamory), apostasy and blasphemy, contraception, divorce, fornication, heresy, homosexual actions, masturbation (and how!), pornography (by definition), sacrilege and, while I would hope it's not a high number, there's definitely a non-zero amount of suicides.

I don't exactly think these are uncommon, and in fact, I'd say most are pretty badass.

peacethroughpower said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_sin#Actions_constituting_grave_matter

e621 is pretty progressive, so, abortion, adultery (polyamory), apostasy and blasphemy, contraception, divorce, fornication, heresy, homosexual actions, masturbation (and how!), pornography (by definition), sacrilege and, while I would hope it's not a high number, there's definitely a non-zero amount of suicides.

I don't exactly think these are uncommon, and in fact, I'd say most are pretty badass.

That's in drawings. You have to commit adultery or fornication yourself for it to be a cardinal sin.

Homosexuality is mentiooned a couple of times in the bible, but it's no big deal. It's not in any of the 12 tablets, it's never stated that they would burn in hell. It's made-up bs by fundamentalists who want to have a reason to hate gay people.

The bible says nothing about abortion.
Divorce is fine as long as you don't re-marry afterwards.

All of this looks to be written from the perspective of a random church and not anything from the bible itself; proving my point.

wolfmanfur said:
That's in drawings. You have to commit adultery or fornication yourself for it to be a cardinal sin.

Homosexuality is mentiooned a couple of times in the bible, but it's no big deal. It's not in any of the 12 tablets, it's never stated that they would burn in hell. It's made-up bs by fundamentalists who want to have a reason to hate gay people.

The bible says nothing about abortion.
Divorce is fine as long as you don't re-marry afterwards.

All of this looks to be written from the perspective of a random church and not anything from the bible itself; proving my point.

Well, I would assume there's a non-zero amount of users of this site having sex and of those, there's a non-zero amount of people engaging in polyamory or unmarried sex. From a secular consequentialist perspective, I don't really have a problem with consenting adults doing whatever they want.

It really depends on the translation and how people interpret it. I don't really see what the bible says about homosexuality as being relevant, though. We shouldn't be trying to establish society or a system of morals along what a book written 2000 years ago says. Why should we follow what it says? Why does it even matter? No one has ever been able to prove religion or the supernatural in general. My standard is, again, consenting adults.

In truth, absolutely no one follows their religious text to every single letter. Everyone picks and chooses to some degree. Thus, I don't think it's helpful to argue about what the bible does or doesn't say in terms of what people should or shouldn't do. Rather, we should be establishing a secular, consequentialist standard of laws and behavior.

Technically, the bible does talk about abortion. Namely, instructions on how to perform one in the event of adultery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water You sure don't hear about that, though!

Consenting adults should be able to marry and divorce as they will. To set another standard causes demonstrable harm by taking people's freedom for no real gain. The default is for freedom; to take away someone's freedom, there needs to be some demonstrable gain for society.

The "random church" you refer to is the Catholic Church, which is certainly more significant than you're painting it as. That being said, I do certainly think that they're an immense force for harm in the world. They're still fighting on the wrong side of LGBT rights and abortion rights, for instance, nor have they fully come to account with their huge problems with CSA.

lafcadio said:

If I die and am judged by an omniscient god, it logically follows they'd have known the events of my life before they happened, so if my atheism or my behavior bothers them, it's their fault, not mine.

Just make me god when I die and everybody's happy.

Holy shit you are so fucking based

closetpossum said:
Let me know what you guy think, I'd like to know your thoughts, if you would.

I'll give you a Buddhist point of view, everybody is reborn and to be reincarnated is actually a "curse" (or a "blessing" depending on perspective).

Everything revolves around gaining karma. You do something good, you gain karma. You do something bad, you lose karma. Simple.
With the karma you gain/lose, you are placed into 6 realms of rebirth/Saṃsāra. Being "human" means you are just one realm beneath achieving "godhood" or heavenly pleasures.

• If you die as a human and is reborn as a human, it is technically bad since there is no karma change or that you did not do enough to ascend higher, but it is also good since you get a second chance.
• You lose enough karma, then you drop down one level to become "demi-gods" or vengeful gods that torment humans through illness and disasters.
• Another level down, and you become an "animal", driven by instinct to prey on each other until you die again.
• Another level down, and you become a "hungry ghost", cursed with extreme hunger and thirst until you die again.
• Last level is literally just "hell", where you are tormented and tortured, dying over and over again until you have paid your due.
• This differs from the hell from Christianity in that hell is not eternal, and that you can try again by gaining karma and climbing up the levels again.
• Ultimately, if you manage to gain enough karma to reach "godhood", you can experience all the pleasures you desire.
• However, you are not immortal and giving into pleasures may consume your karma, potentially dropping you down one realm again when you die, repeating the whole cycle of reincarnation once more.

To truly break from this endless cycle of rebirth/Saṃsāra, you need to forgo all worldly pleasures and attain Nirvana.

However, if you want my own personal point of view, there is no heaven or hell. No life after, nor a life before.
You literally just existed/born into this world without a single thought of the beforelife, and you would probably leave this world without a single thought of the afterlife.
The "pleasure" of it all is in the now and basically living. You were given the opportunity to experience reality, so go enjoy it (and it wouldn't hurt to also let others enjoy it as well).

People have begun to speak about deep philosophical things of late in this forum...

And I like it VERY much... =).

Great thread.

Do any of you believe in Reincarnation?

It is a matter to which I have not dedicated enough thought... maybe because of the many possibilities that exist, this one do not seem to me particularly likely. But as TheGreatWolfgang said, that is an axiom of some religions like Buddism, in which hundreds of millions of people believe.

Certainly, chemical elements that compose organisms enter a trophic pyramid and finally are recycled, over and over, by biogeochemical cycles . What was once the matter of a dinosaur, probably makes up a sizable part of yourself. But unless atoms themselves have some kind of memory, which I don't believe, I don't see how it could be interpreted as a form of "re-incarnation".

Speaking of memory... we are the result of it. Not "mental" or psychical, but we are the heirs of the advancement in complexity and sophistication of Life. Whatever relevant a bacteria "invented", 3.5 or 2.0 Gy ago, we surely have. A simple Bacteria like E. coli have like 3000 genes, and we like 25,000 (although our mechanism to process genetic information is more sophisticated and flexible). We are part of that chain, and we will past that wealth plus our own contribution to our descendants, for an underterminated number of generations. That at least we have, even if you ONLY believe in pure Materialism.

But still I sympathize with your example, as an intuition. We don't know everything yet, as the possible "laws of conservation of conscience", if such thing really exists. Regarding that, I will say that the Artists, and even more the GOOD Artists whose works populate this site, have a certain advantage over us simple users =P. Who knows how many generations will be inspired by them in the future, as they inspire us many, now?

=).

What do you think of HELL?

Hell undoubtly exists. Hell is present on Earth. It exists in every person that falls into drugs, or alcoholism. Hell is present in the ingratitude of sons and daughters to their parents, and in that of the newer generations to their culture and civilization.... and of course, MANY other things. Hell galore.

It is so present, that we could barely notice it.

---------------------------------------------------------------
peacethroughpower

e621 is pretty progressive, so, abortion, adultery (polyamory), apostasy and blasphemy, contraception, divorce, fornication, heresy, homosexual actions, masturbation (and how!), pornography (by definition), sacrilege and, while I would hope it's not a high number, there's definitely a non-zero amount of suicides.

I don't exactly think these are uncommon, and in fact, I'd say most are pretty badass.

Now that you mention it, every so often there appear threads of people considering suicide, asking for help or something. Given that this is a pretty massive site, I don't know if the occurrence if it is superior or not, to the baseline of the General Population.

Who knows? Maybe SOME of the things that you mention, or the conjunction of them does not constitute a very healthy "environment".

I just mention the possibility. I don't come to e6 to look for almost none of those things (so I guess I am not "progressive"). I prefer to consider e6 - at least for my personal use - as a place were I could find some beautiful things: healthy eroticism, depictions of love, beauty, fantasy, ... "created out of nothing", but from the human mind, as carrot once said.

But anyone is free (as an adult, as you say) to look in here what fits for him / her.

Well, I would assume there's a non-zero amount of users of this site having sex and of those, there's a non-zero amount of people engaging in polyamory or unmarried sex. From a secular consequentialist perspective, I don't really have a problem with consenting adults doing whatever they want.

In principle, that sounds really great to me. On practice, "for what we see in the real world", I will just transmit here the Wisdom of my Master (*) ... that there is a lot of STDs and unwanted pregnancies, and some other things. Sex has to be taken with care, since it is a serious thing. Not that I think that, as you say, a book from 2000+ years have to decide for us, threatening us with "the fire of hell". But it is serious thing, and an important part of human life.

It really depends on the translation and how people interpret it. I don't really see what the bible says about homosexuality as being relevant, though. We shouldn't be trying to establish society or a system of morals along what a book written 2000 years ago says. Why should we follow what it says? Why does it even matter? No one has ever been able to prove religion or the supernatural in general. My standard is, again, consenting adults.

OK.

The "random church" you refer to is the Catholic Church, which is certainly more significant than you're painting it as. That being said, I do certainly think that they're an immense force for harm in the world. They're still fighting on the wrong side of LGBT rights and abortion rights, for instance, nor have they fully come to account with their huge problems with CSA.

I believe everyone has the right to like and see the things through his own perspective. For what is important to him / her at the moment. I myself used to be pretty much anti-Catholic before, because I looked at the Church only as a source of "backward" ideas, especially in sexual morals and attitudes.

But now, I could imagine what was the Catholic Church for, say, the Poles in the 80s, as a support to liberate their country from Communism. And now in my country, we have a similar position. Probably in the next decades, this Catholic Church will be an important factor to regain freedom sooner or later in the future. For what, in that case, they will gain my eternal gratitude and loyalty.

------------------------

(*) My Master "Sauron-Palpatine", is a Canadian Psychologist, whose name is forever banned in sites like this, uppon penalty of expulsion. =P.

mexicanfurry said:

Hell undoubtly exists. Hell is present on Earth. It exists in every person that falls into drugs, or alcoholism. Hell is present in the ingratitude of sons and daughters to their parents, and in that of the newer generations to their culture and civilization.... and of course, MANY other things. Hell galore.

It is so present, that we could barely notice it.

That's why sayings like "Hell on Earth" and "Goodbye cruel world" exists huh?

thegreatwolfgang said:
I'll give you a Buddhist point of view, everybody is reborn and to be reincarnated is actually a "curse" (or a "blessing" depending on perspective).

Everything revolves around gaining karma. You do something good, you gain karma. You do something bad, you lose karma. Simple.
With the karma you gain/lose, you are placed into 6 realms of rebirth/Saṃsāra. Being "human" means you are just one realm beneath achieving "godhood" or heavenly pleasures.

• If you die as a human and is reborn as a human, it is technically bad since there is no karma change or that you did not do enough to ascend higher, but it is also good since you get a second chance.
• You lose enough karma, then you drop down one level to become "demi-gods" or vengeful gods that torment humans through illness and disasters.
• Another level down, and you become an "animal", driven by instinct to prey on each other until you die again.
• Another level down, and you become a "hungry ghost", cursed with extreme hunger and thirst until you die again.
• Last level is literally just "hell", where you are tormented and tortured, dying over and over again until you have paid your due.
• This differs from the hell from Christianity in that hell is not eternal, and that you can try again by gaining karma and climbing up the levels again.
• Ultimately, if you manage to gain enough karma to reach "godhood", you can experience all the pleasures you desire.
• However, you are not immortal and giving into pleasures may consume your karma, potentially dropping you down one realm again when you die, repeating the whole cycle of reincarnation once more.

To truly break from this endless cycle of rebirth/Saṃsāra, you need to forgo all worldly pleasures and attain Nirvana.

However, if you want my own personal point of view, there is no heaven or hell. No life after, nor a life before.
You literally just existed/born into this world without a single thought of the beforelife, and you would probably leave this world without a single thought of the afterlife.
The "pleasure" of it all is in the now and basically living. You were given the opportunity to experience reality, so go enjoy it (and it wouldn't hurt to also let others enjoy it as well).

My beliefs do lean towards Buddism & Hinduism to a extent when it comes to reincarnation at least.
But I don't actually know too much about those religions. I hear that Buddism may be one of the most peaceful and agreeable religions to talk about. People tend to not think poorly of it.
I kinda see why. Its teachings have this sense of clarity or calm. As if I'm talking or learning from some wise old man from the mountains...heh.

Some of those layers of reincarnation don't sound bad to me. I'm okay with being human again. And I'm okay being a demon speading suffering and misery if the opportunity arrises (in hell, like a job or something and I earn pay for it)
Losing my sense of sentience, awareness, is a huge turn off if I was to be reincarnated as an anima
I think my Karma is pretty stagnated. I haven't really done anything in life yet. the bar is pretty straight line so far.
No achievements under my belt. I'm kinda a punk so I do a bit of petty theivery, small arson, tagging. Am I on the path to becoming a Demi-god?
post #3478228

mexicanfurry said:

Now that you mention it, every so often there appear threads of people considering suicide, asking for help or something. Given that this is a pretty massive site, I don't know if the occurrence if it is superior or not, to the baseline of the General Population.

Who knows? Maybe SOME of the things that you mention, or the conjunction of them does not constitute a very healthy "environment".

I just mention the possibility. I don't come to e6 to look for almost none of those things (so I guess I am not "progressive"). I prefer to consider e6 - at least for my personal use - as a place were I could find some beautiful things: healthy eroticism, depictions of love, beauty, fantasy, ... "created out of nothing", but from the human mind, as carrot once said.

But anyone is free (as an adult, as you say) to look in here what fits for him / her.

In principle, that sounds really great to me. On practice, "for what we see in the real world", I will just transmit here the Wisdom of my Master (*) ... that there is a lot of STDs and unwanted pregnancies, and some other things. Sex has to be taken with care, since it is a serious thing. Not that I think that, as you say, a book from 2000+ years have to decide for us, threatening us with "the fire of hell". But it is serious thing, and an important part of human life.

I believe everyone has the right to like and see the things through his own perspective. For what is important to him / her at the moment. I myself used to be pretty much anti-Catholic before, because I looked at the Church only as a source of "backward" ideas, especially in sexual morals and attitudes.

But now, I could imagine what was the Catholic Church for, say, the Poles in the 80s, as a support to liberate their country from Communism. And now in my country, we have a similar position. Probably in the next decades, this Catholic Church will be an important factor to regain freedom sooner or later in the future. For what, in that case, they will gain my eternal gratitude and loyalty.

------------------------

(*) My Master "Sauron-Palpatine", is a Canadian Psychologist, whose name is forever banned in sites like this, uppon penalty of expulsion. =P.

Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to say being progressive or whatever is unhealthy, you need to provide actual proof of it rather than just strongly implying it. Plus it's anecdotal, unless you have some actual statistics.

Jordan Peterson? That guy who got famous by lying about what Bill C-16 did, is promoted by the Daily Liar and looks like a Simpsons character because he stopped eating anything but meat? Perhaps not the greatest person to base your life around, but you do you. STDs and unwanted pregnancy are easy enough to avoid if you use contraception and don't do dangerous things like bareback anal with strangers. Plus abortions are (or at least, should be) available to deal with unwanted pregnancies. Consenting adults can do whatever they want with sex and there's no objective, secular reason to adhere to some puritan standard.

Of course everything can see things however they want. That doesn't exactly make it true, though. The Catholic Church objectively spreads a lot of harmful ideas into society (e.g. condom bans in Africa) and fights against LGBT rights. You're not going to find fighting against LGBT rights very popular here. Opposing the USSR is good (since they were a horrible totalitarian empire), but that doesn't excuse absolutely everything else. The Nazis opposed the USSR, too. If you want to bring up Poland, here's some of the problems the Catholic Church causes there.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/05/17/994654590/u-n-and-advocates-raise-concerns-of-abortion-access-for-ukrainian-refugees-in-po Imagine your country being invaded, getting raped and then, because of an undemocratic, hierarchical, unaccountable religious organization, roadblocks are put in the way to get an abortion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Poland "Polish society tends to hold conservative views about issues dealing with LGBT rights. A majority of the Polish population is affiliated with the Catholic Church, and as such, public perception and acceptance of the LGBT community are strongly influenced by Catholic moral doctrines. Article 18 of the Polish Constitution states that "Marriage, as a union of a man and a woman, shall be placed under the protection and care of the Republic of Poland."[7] According to several jurists, this article bans same-sex marriage.[8][9][10][11] The Supreme Court, the Constitutional Tribunal and the Supreme Administrative Court have ruled that Article 18 of the Constitution limits the institution of marriage to opposite-sex couples, and that the legalization of same-sex marriage would require a constitutional amendment.[12][13][14][15][16] Poland does not recognise civil unions either, though discussion on this issue is ongoing. While ahead of the 2015 Polish parliamentary election, the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party had taken an anti-migrant stance, and in the run-up to the 2019 Polish parliamentary election, PiS focused on countering alleged Western "LGBT ideology".[17] Encouraged by national PiS politicians,[17] by April 2020, 100 municipalities (including five voivodships), encompassing about a third of the country, informally declared themselves "LGBT-free zones".[18]"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4 Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens shred the idea that the Catholic Church is a force for good in the world.

Maybe you'd have a different perspective if you were the one being targeted and hurt by the Catholics. You know, like all the kids they abused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

PeaceTroughPower...

That wall of text of yours really have to cost you some time to write... not to burden more the server or tire the eyes of the eventual readers, I would not quote the whole text, but I will be answering the points I deem of interest... tomorrow, since it is late (here, 12:42 AM). Seems that you take it very personal some of my points, that you don't tolerate opinions that differ from yours. But don't worry, there will be an answer. I am not taken aback so easily by limp-wristed hysteria.

Till tomorrow.

=).

mexicanfurry said:
PeaceTroughPower...

That wall of text of yours really have to cost you some time to write... not to burden more the server or tire the eyes of the eventual readers, I would not quote the whole text, but I will be answering the points I deem of interest... tomorrow, since it is late (here, 12:42 AM). Seems that you take it very personal some of my points, that you don't tolerate opinions that differ from yours. But don't worry, there will be an answer. I am not taken aback so easily by limp-wristed hysteria.

Till tomorrow.

=).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

mexicanfurry said:
Hell is present in the ingratitude of sons and daughters to their parents, and in that of the newer generations to their culture and civilization.... and of course, MANY other things.

I never really jived with this kinda mindset; gratitude and respect is always something that's earned. we should never expect gratitude to be a default. feels like it could lead to toxic "father knows best" and culturally regressive mindsets. your parents on average are just as likely to be massive fuckups as anyone else and your culture is very well able to have terrible practices that harm its citezens.

if a child lacks respect for a parent or whole generations lack respect for their culture I don't think we should necessarily be blaming them for that, because there may be a good reason for it.

I'm most certainly going to hell or its many other relgious counterparts if it exists, so I'd like there to be nothing. a little hard not to hope I won't suffer y'know?

Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to say being progressive or whatever is unhealthy, you need to provide actual proof of it rather than just strongly implying it. Plus it's anecdotal, unless you have some actual statistics.

Well… from where you want me to start? =(.

We both know – and maybe many of our reader bystanders do – that such statistics exists. They are appalling. Some eye-popping… But by presenting them, the only thing that I going to attain is to needlessly anger many people here. It is public information, collected by the Health institutes of every country that have one.

I will say, that most people here, as furries that enjoy more platonic relations, so to speak, and value stable couples (I know, since I am a Furry) will have much better chances to approximate, on average, the average life-expentancy of their countries.

Jordan Peterson? That guy who got famous by lying about what Bill C-16 did, is promoted by the Daily Liar and looks like a Simpsons character because he stopped eating anything but meat? Perhaps not the greatest person to base your life around, but you do you.

As a matter of fact, I am very proud of having “translated”, for my own personal use, the whole course “Personality and its Transformations” (2017) that I found in YouTube. It took me several months to complete, since I was looking for sources, downloaded most of the literature recommended. You know, It really is not a fateful “translation”… it is something between a translation and something like “taking class notes”, with some material added by myself… like experiences from my life, observations, some critique, and perceived applications for life.

=).

By the way, fateful translation of that course also exists, available somewhere in the Internet.

Oh, but we were talking about the character of Mr. Peterson. Let me see…

What it is pretty clear, is that leftist academics around the world, but especially in North America, hate him. Vague accusations of “racism” and “homophobic” attitudes circulate.

But no really firm proof of that is ever presented.

If you studied in a US / Canadian University, say, and besides you show the “militance” that I somehow savor… well, I am not surprised that you consider him… not good example.

Well, it has to suck for many, to know that he is the most read author in English of our days… and not some pot-smoking, Che-shirted, greasy haired “Academic-Activist” of their liking.

Have to say, to finish, that the admiration or hating of Mr. Peterson in the Spanish-speaking world have to do also with a very complex Weltanschaung of “attitudes towards life and morals” as for example this Furry Argentinean-Spaniard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcSzsCC4uUs

STDs and unwanted pregnancy are easy enough to avoid if you use contraception and don't do dangerous things like bareback anal with strangers. Plus abortions are (or at least, should be) available to deal with unwanted pregnancies. Consenting adults can do whatever they want with sex and there's no objective, secular reason to adhere to some puritan standard.

Let’s say that in principle I agree with that.

Of course everything can see things however they want. That doesn't exactly make it true, though.

We have to abide to scientific method in order to arrive to a interpersonal truth that most accurately reflects a possible objective Reality. I agree.

You're not going to find fighting against LGBT rights very popular here.

No, of course not. We all agree that LGTB people deserves to be accepted and not discriminated and treated as equals like any normal citizen. Guess we have advanced much since the 50s and 60s, when gays were considered as sexual predators, and susceptible to be recruited as soviet spies (e.g. The Five of Cambridge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUu-1VheEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_WDX77UpE

Opposing the USSR is good (since they were a horrible totalitarian empire), but that doesn't excuse absolutely everything else. The Nazis opposed the USSR, too. If you want to bring up Poland, here's some of the problems the Catholic Church causes there.

(follows a diatribe against Polish culture an people).

Suddenly, we discover that today’s Poland, a Western Country, NATO ally, Christian… is unworthy because it is Catholic, and want to uphold some of its traditions, and do not bent over instantly to some political agenda.

I went to Chicago as tourist like 20 years ago, and then a great part of the trip, was to enjoy the delicious “Polish sussages”, great tradition there. Hopefully there will not suffer nowadays from activists of a nearby University, that want to rename them as “fascist sussages”, for that.

xD.

Well, we all agree that LGTB people deserve to be treated with respect, rights and all. But for what I have seen in the Internet, society (specially in the USA) is becoming VERY tired from radical activism and pushing to unreasonable levels. I am saying nothing new… you feel it. Tell me if not. Go around YouTube if you don’t believe me … to see that there is material you didn’t see just 3 years ago.

Because there is activists that believe, really believe, that they will put society at large licking their feet, instead of simply, as it should be, demand something just and reasonable.

Yes, in sites like, everything could be possible in that regard. In the University Campus a man with religious signs could be spitted and chased away, as some user above described… but really, society at large, Humanity at large, it’s another thing.

Think about it.

mexicanfurry said:
Well… from where you want me to start? =(.

We both know – and maybe many of our reader bystanders do – that such statistics exists. They are appalling. Some eye-popping… But by presenting them, the only thing that I going to attain is to needlessly anger many people here. It is public information, collected by the Health institutes of every country that have one.

I will say, that most people here, as furries that enjoy more platonic relations, so to speak, and value stable couples (I know, since I am a Furry) will have much better chances to approximate, on average, the average life-expentancy of their countries.

As a matter of fact, I am very proud of having “translated”, for my own personal use, the whole course “Personality and its Transformations” (2017) that I found in YouTube. It took me several months to complete, since I was looking for sources, downloaded most of the literature recommended. You know, It really is not a fateful “translation”… it is something between a translation and something like “taking class notes”, with some material added by myself… like experiences from my life, observations, some critique, and perceived applications for life.

=).

By the way, fateful translation of that course also exists, available somewhere in the Internet.

Oh, but we were talking about the character of Mr. Peterson. Let me see…

What it is pretty clear, is that leftist academics around the world, but especially in North America, hate him. Vague accusations of “racism” and “homophobic” attitudes circulate.

But no really firm proof of that is ever presented.

If you studied in a US / Canadian University, say, and besides you show the “militance” that I somehow savor… well, I am not surprised that you consider him… not good example.

Well, it has to suck for many, to know that he is the most read author in English of our days… and not some pot-smoking, Che-shirted, greasy haired “Academic-Activist” of their liking.

Have to say, to finish, that the admiration or hating of Mr. Peterson in the Spanish-speaking world have to do also with a very complex Weltanschaung of “attitudes towards life and morals” as for example this Furry Argentinean-Spaniard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcSzsCC4uUs

Let’s say that in principle I agree with that.

We have to abide to scientific method in order to arrive to a interpersonal truth that most accurately reflects a possible objective Reality. I agree.

No, of course not. We all agree that LGTB people deserves to be accepted and not discriminated and treated as equals like any normal citizen. Guess we have advanced much since the 50s and 60s, when gays were considered as sexual predators, and susceptible to be recruited as soviet spies (e.g. The Five of Cambridge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUu-1VheEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_WDX77UpE

(follows a diatribe against Polish culture an people).

Suddenly, we discover that today’s Poland, a Western Country, NATO ally, Christian… is unworthy because it is Catholic, and want to uphold some of its traditions, and do not bent over instantly to some political agenda.

I went to Chicago as tourist like 20 years ago, and then a great part of the trip, was to enjoy the delicious “Polish sussages”, great tradition there. Hopefully there will not suffer nowadays from activists of a nearby University, that want to rename them as “fascist sussages”, for that.

xD.

Well, we all agree that LGTB people deserve to be treated with respect, rights and all. But for what I have seen in the Internet, society (specially in the USA) is becoming VERY tired from radical activism and pushing to unreasonable levels. I am saying nothing new… you feel it. Tell me if not. Go around YouTube if you don’t believe me … to see that there is material you didn’t see just 3 years ago.

Because there is activists that believe, really believe, that they will put society at large licking their feet, instead of simply, as it should be, demand something just and reasonable.

Yes, in sites like, everything could be possible in that regard. In the University Campus a man with religious signs could be spitted and chased away, as some user above described… but really, society at large, Humanity at large, it’s another thing.

Think about it.

You're the one making the argument. You can start wherever you want.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. If you wish to make some claim and say there's statistics to prove it, it is your burden to actually provide them. Yes, anti-LGBT rhetoric might anger a lot of people here because most people don't like bigotry and discrimination. Really, though, if you're ashamed of your views, maybe you should consider whether or not you should have them in the first place.

Okay, so you made some translations and notes. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.

Everything I mentioned seems pretty clear and objective. Jordan Peterson became prominent by lying about what bill C-16 did (saying it somehow compelled speech, when in actually it just added gender expression and identity to protected groups in the Canadian Human Rights Act.) If you want to say I'm wrong, has any single person been arrested as a result of it?

He is also promoted by the Daily Wire, a Ben Shapiro-founded disinfo outlet that platforms outright stochastic terrorists like Matt Walsh. Not exactly great people to be associating with. I called them the Daily Liar because it's an accurate title.

Peterson also literally turned yellow as a result of an all-meat diet. I've seen it, but I'm having trouble finding the image. I don't really see it as that important so I don't want to spend more time digging it up.

Spreading anti-LGBT rhetoric and bigotry in a protest is absolutely militance. These sorts of losers have been at it forever, but Gen Z is overwhelmingly progressive and LGBT, so they're going to lose eventually. All they can do is be assholes.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/
https://www.axios.com/2022/02/17/lgbtq-generation-z-gallup

Notice how I actually cited statistics to back up my points?

You can't act like you aren't being hateful towards LGBT people while spreading disinformation and bigotry against them. Yes, they do deserve to be accepted and not discriminated against and treated as equals. Part of that is not having zones where they're not welcome, or constantly pedojacketing them.

I don't speak Spanish so I'm not going to watch some Spanish YouTube videos on some weirdo with a cult of personality.

I'm half-Polish. I criticize many countries for denying abortions to pregnant people or being regressive on LGBT rights. I address Poland in particular because it's what you brought up. Furthermore, I'd call your insinuation that anti-choice and anti-LGBT ideology is inherent to Polish culture and people more of a negative diatribe than anything I said.

The only reason you're seeing "radical activism" is because there's a current culture war against LGBT people being able to live their own existence. It's the same old crap with the same old rhetoric. Remember how much people whined about the marriage equality fight? And I'm not going to go on YouTube, because some deceptively edited hitpiece by GroomerKiller1488 isn't exactly an empirical standard of evidence. Which side, exactly, is trying to ban PrEP and passing tons of anti-LGBT laws, again?

Nice thread hijack, very cool.
You can stop now.

cinder said:
Nice thread hijack, very cool.
You can stop now.

Yes @Cinder.... the truth is that even before you intervened, I lamented that we sh*t bombed this good thread of ClosetPossum... but then It was too late.

=(.

Sorry.

cinder said:
Nice thread hijack, very cool.
You can stop now.

mexicanfurry said:
Yes @Cinder.... the truth is that even before you intervened, I lamented that we sh*t bombed this good thread of ClosetPossum... but then It was too late.

=(.

Sorry.

eh, I don't mind. It was entertaining.
I lurked my own thread, lol