I'm very frustrated by art of characters I own the rights to getting taken down because the artists don't like e621. https://i.imgur.com/xLjjeY4.png

If I pay the artist money, why is it that they can suddenly one day decide I'm not allowed to post the art I paid for? I know copyright is more complicated than that, but it's frustrating.

Anyway, this is just a rant, I don't expect any mods to reverse the decision. I'm just going to... get all this art redrawn by a different artist.

It could be for any reason really, as artists retain all rights to their work unless stated otherwise, even if it's a commission. Some don't like how the site is ran, some don't like the TWYS tagging system, some had a bad experience on the site and pulled the plug, some haven't been on the site at all and are just believing any rumor they hear about the site because their friend is a super reliable source, etc. The most recent reason I've seen is that some artists are taking their stuff because of e6ai, as they think e6 fully supports AI art, and AI art = stealing from artists etc etc. Is it a burden on character owners/commissioners? Yes. Will they lose future commissioners? Maybe, it depends.

Speaking of rumors, what the hell is this "the e6 owner is zoophile" thing going around? I've seen it being spread recently yet when I ask for evidence, they either don't provide it and get bitchy or it's "well, he makes anatomically-correct animal sex toys, so obviously he's into the real thing and probably did it at some point" which again is just speculation and doesn't actually prove anything.

waba said: Speaking of rumors, what the hell is this "the e6 owner is zoophile" thing going around? I've seen it being spread recently yet when I ask for evidence, they either don't provide it and get bitchy or it's "well, he makes anatomically-correct animal sex toys, so obviously he's into the real thing and probably did it at some point" which again is just speculation and doesn't actually prove anything.

^this. Far too many people spam the comments with "Person a is a zoophile" or "person B is into zoophilia" based solely on rumors or speculation. Also they claim "This guy is into bestiality" without any proof at all. Admins probably don't have enough time to find these comments or ban all these annoying people.

waba said:
I've seen it being spread recently yet when I ask for evidence, they either don't provide it and get bitchy or it's "well, he makes anatomically-correct animal sex toys, so obviously he's into the real thing and probably did it at some point" which again is just speculation and doesn't actually prove anything.

from what I can find, it's more or less this, yeah. a lot of conjecture, a lot of assumptions, a lot of conflation.

the closest I can get to anything is that back in the day a website that was at some point hosted by Bad Dragon might have had photographs of lizards having sex posted onto it at some point, and that the person who bought out Varka's VPN Startup was arrested for crimes related to zoophilia.

Yeah, posting screenshots on ImgUr is so 4chan. Made a transcript:

Trop Yesterday at 4:12 AM
In the process of removing everything from e621
And putting myself on their do not post list

parasite Yesterday at 5:17 AM
why?

UnKnownAlien Yesterday at 5:20 AM
i think it is more on the grounds of they did not have permission to do that plus i know some people dont agree with how that site is run

parasite Yesterday at 5:29 AM
ah

UnKnownAlien Yesterday at 5:33 AM
I know there is some artist who have in their TOS tha is not to post to Furaffinity or e21 so i like to honor those request when they ask.

AUREVORIUS Yesterday at 5:54 AM
site owner runs BD which is zoophile

Une Pintade Yesterday at 5:59 AM
I mean besides angry twitter posts, I haven't seen any real allegations or prosecutions against Jan Mulders (edited)
and zoophilia is a pretty serious crime

AUREVORIUS Yesterday at 6:00 AM
they were outwardly zoophile some years ago is what i know

parasite Yesterday at 6:01 AM
zoophilia is disgusting
i even view letting your dogs lick your face disgusting as a lot of people actually let that happen
get that shit away from me

I suspect the real reason people hate how e621 is run, is people here don't want to cave in, everytime someone makes rage-filled demands. Including demands to censor other people out of existance.

waba said:
It could be for any reason really, as artists retain all rights to their work unless stated otherwise, even if it's a commission. Some don't like how the site is ran, some don't like the TWYS tagging system, some had a bad experience on the site and pulled the plug, some haven't been on the site at all and are just believing any rumor they hear about the site because their friend is a super reliable source, etc. The most recent reason I've seen is that some artists are taking their stuff because of e6ai, as they think e6 fully supports AI art, and AI art = stealing from artists etc etc. Is it a burden on character owners/commissioners? Yes. Will they lose future commissioners? Maybe, it depends.

Speaking of rumors, what the hell is this "the e6 owner is zoophile" thing going around? I've seen it being spread recently yet when I ask for evidence, they either don't provide it and get bitchy or it's "well, he makes anatomically-correct animal sex toys, so obviously he's into the real thing and probably did it at some point" which again is just speculation and doesn't actually prove anything.

Actually, if the artist had terms that allowed distribution by commissioners, it would be BS to be able to arbitrarily revoke permissions for what was a hired work. Then again, look at comic book industry for very badly written contracts and their results. Batman had that issue early on, right?

The stuff like e621 supporting AI is hilariously wrong. Given that you know, it's banned here, and most art sites (including e621) made people go to an AI-specific site or section to see it. (Pixiv, what are you doing?! LOL)

Yeah, AUREVORIUS has some kind of grudge or chip on their shoulder or something to be flinging that mud. Not surprised they got called out on it.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
^this. Far too many people spam the comments with "Person a is a zoophile" or "person B is into zoophilia" based solely on rumors or speculation. Also they claim "This guy is into bestiality" without any proof at all. Admins probably don't have enough time to find these comments or ban all these annoying people.

Was gonna say this - you'd get banned here for saying that kind of stuff, but not because it's about the people running the place. It applied to ANYONE. Less Les Major, more libel and slander and rumor-mongering.

sipothac said:
from what I can find, it's more or less this, yeah. a lot of conjecture, a lot of assumptions, a lot of conflation.

the closest I can get to anything is that back in the day a website that was at some point hosted by Bad Dragon might have had photographs of lizards having sex posted onto it at some point, and that the person who bought out Varka's VPN Startup was arrested for crimes related to zoophilia.

I remember this a bit more... Herpy had plug pulled because person paying the bills was like WTF, photos of real reptiles, right? Exact opposite of what was implied by Aurevorius! XD

waba said:
The most recent reason I've seen is that some artists are taking their stuff because of e6ai, as they think e6 fully supports AI art, and AI art = stealing from artists etc etc.

IIRC e6ai launched as a compromise for e621 disallowing all AI art from the site. Didn't seem like the admins were proud of it, because it got released super quietly, I remember there was a forum thread where people weren't sure if it was even an official site. Interesting stuff.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
^this. Far too many people spam the comments with "Person a is a zoophile" or "person B is into zoophilia" based solely on rumors or speculation. Also they claim "This guy is into bestiality" without any proof at all. Admins probably don't have enough time to find these comments or ban all these annoying people.

I haven't seen this a lot, as my blacklist is close to the default I'll assume this happens on the more taboo posts.
You can find a lot of them on Twitter, mostly because of the incompetent moderation on there. Here's a trick, ask them to elaborate or give any kind of evidence, 90% they will answer "I don't know about it bro, I just heard it somewhere"

Some artists just think that the world is spinning around them, and they just throw a tantrum when they encounter any inconvenience, which results in these takedown requests.
As for the twitter and it's idiotic cancel culture, all it takes are some baseless rumours, so that the NPC-artists would start to bandwagon against something.
It's a shame that some art gets removed but what can you do... The best course of action is to just personally backup the stuff you like in case the artist goes apeshit. Same things happen frequently with fanfictions.

Imo e6 is the best site for this kind of art period. Nothing beats a functional tagging system with an optional blacklist, active moderation and the ability to accurately search old posts. FF and Twitter don't come even close and the only reason why they're even used, is because a lot of casuals are using that site for drama, which helps snowballing up your follower count.

Also the fact that e6 has the secondary site for AI content is a blessing. R34 sites and similiar ones are a cesspol of AI garbage now, and i don't see why other people even bother coming there (aside from patreon pirated content).
Long story short - e621 is good, and the only people who don't want their content here, have a 50ft long rod stuck up their asses.

hausemaster said:
IIRC e6ai launched as a compromise for e621 disallowing all AI art from the site. Didn't seem like the admins were proud of it, because it got released super quietly, I remember there was a forum thread where people weren't sure if it was even an official site. Interesting stuff.

I haven't seen this a lot, as my blacklist is close to the default I'll assume this happens on the more taboo posts.
You can find a lot of them on Twitter, mostly because of the incompetent moderation on there. Here's a trick, ask them to elaborate or give any kind of evidence, 90% they will answer "I don't know about it bro, I just heard it somewhere"

But how can we know that half the uploaded content these days is not AI generated ? Now that people have caught on that this site does not allow ai content, they will just hide all evidence that their uploads are ai generated.

alphamule said:
The stuff like e621 supporting AI is hilariously wrong.

Right. AI media is not allowed on e621. People who post it repeatedly after deletion also receive records for it and can eventually be banned.

e6ai is a dumping ground for AI media while keeping the same tag system. The "Artist" category was even changed to "Director" to avoid referring to AI creations as art. e6ai helps mitigate AI uploads to the main e621 site, and it siphons away AI media from first-party gallery sites as well. Artists benefit when that media is isolated into its own space while keeping dedicated art sites about art.

lazyoldmutt said:
But how can we know that half the uploaded content these days is not AI generated ? Now that people have caught on that this site does not allow ai content, they will just hide all evidence that their uploads are ai generated.

Uploads to e621 still get manually reviewed, and we do fairly regularly catch people trying to sneak in AI generated content: ai_generated status:deleted / delreason:*generat*.
Of course, we probably miss some things. But it's still a hell lot better than on other sites, in my opinion.
Thankfully, AI content is still not at a point where it is indistinguishable from regular artwork.

technical-grid said: ...

I absolutely understand your frustration with Twitter culture, I despise it too.
But please don't insult people, that's just not a very classy thing to do.

If you don't like your art being taken down (from anywhere), then you can do what the commissioner of post #3066042 did. From now on, have your artists agree to a contract allowing you noncommercial distribution rights before payment or cancel your commission. Looks like that contract overrides full artist DNP. On E621 artists are given takedown priority by default, so you would be acquiring that legal right from your artists through a contract. Hell, you could even message NotMeNotYou with a draft contract and ask if that would override an artist's takedown request. Make sure you actually record artists agreeing to your contract.

I don't really want to speculate on why people don't like e621 (i.e., known unknowns). Furries gossip a lot. They are young and definitely the least mature group I'm a part of. Anyway, I had used my previous e621 profile picture for, let's say, 8 years when suddenly I logged in and it was deleted for takedown #16561 with the entire stated reason Whimsy and spite, which is garbage LOL, but people can put whatever they want for their takedown reason. I own no furry characters or art so whatever. A braixen is fine too.

E621 has made some significant concessions to become more artist and commissioner friendly over the years. I was an active member when we would allow paysite content after 2 years (or was it less?), but then e621 axed that policy and deleted all the paywalled content people could find. So artists had one less reason to hate us. We eventually introduced lore tags and changed our intersex tags to smooth over other thorny issues where artists and character owners felt our gender tagging system disrespected their characters. We introduced conditional dnp so that artists could tailor content moderation instructions for us instead of resorting to full takedowns, but I think we can do a better job of demonstrating CDNP options in the takedown form since we're relying on the takedown submitter's creativity. We now verify artist uploaders, which is pretty cool. At some point, maybe around 4-5 years ago, E621 changed from 99.9% community-sourced to artists viewing us as worth the headache.

My counter-question to the title is: does E621 matter? Why?

E621 lifers would say that the site only matters to its users, and that artists and commissioners shouldn't change a thing for us (we would like to put up your full quality art, though, lol). But it seems that's wishful thinking. Our existence does unfortunately influence our sources. The exposure and loss of control is too much for some art owners. They haven't made peace with their netizenship, that they lost control when they put themselves online. Still, without us shining a light on some art, it would just get forgotten and maybe some owners prefer that. And I've seen our tags influence art creation: some artists want the validation of earning a tag (and other artists want to believe their art deserves a tag for something poorly illustrated). On the other hand, I'm sure our organization and explanation of ideas has helped spread, advance, and solidify some fetish and other concepts, aiding creators in pushing the envelope. They'd have a harder time drawing things they don't understand or haven't seen.

abadbird said:
If you don't like your art being taken down (from anywhere), then you can do what the commissioner of post #3066042 did. From now on, have your artists agree to a contract allowing you noncommercial distribution rights before payment or cancel your commission. Looks like that contract overrides full artist DNP. On E621 artists are given takedown priority by default, so you would be acquiring that legal right from your artists through a contract. Hell, you could even message NotMeNotYou with a draft contract and ask if that would override an artist's takedown request. Make sure you actually record artists agreeing to your contract.

I don't really want to speculate on why people don't like e621 (i.e., known unknowns). Furries gossip a lot. They are young and definitely the least mature group I'm a part of. Anyway, I had used my previous e621 profile picture for, let's say, 8 years when suddenly I logged in and it was deleted for takedown #16561 with the entire stated reason Whimsy and spite, which is garbage LOL, but people can put whatever they want for their takedown reason. I own no furry characters or art so whatever. A braixen is fine too.

E621 has made some significant concessions to become more artist and commissioner friendly over the years. I was an active member when we would allow paysite content after 2 years (or was it less?), but then e621 axed that policy and deleted all the paywalled content people could find. So artists had one less reason to hate us. We eventually introduced lore tags and changed our intersex tags to smooth over other thorny issues where artists and character owners felt our gender tagging system disrespected their characters. We introduced conditional dnp so that artists could tailor content moderation instructions for us instead of resorting to full takedowns, but I think we can do a better job of demonstrating CDNP options in the takedown form since we're relying on the takedown submitter's creativity. We now verify artist uploaders, which is pretty cool. At some point, maybe around 4-5 years ago, E621 changed from 99.9% community-sourced to artists viewing us as worth the headache.

My counter-question to the title is: does E621 matter? Why?

E621 lifers would say that the site only matters to its users, and that artists and commissioners shouldn't change a thing for us (we would like to put up your full quality art, though, lol). But it seems that's wishful thinking. Our existence does unfortunately influence our sources. The exposure and loss of control is too much for some art owners. They haven't made peace with their netizenship, that they lost control when they put themselves online. Still, without us shining a light on some art, it would just get forgotten and maybe some owners prefer that. And I've seen our tags influence art creation: some artists want the validation of earning a tag (and other artists want to believe their art deserves a tag for something poorly illustrated). On the other hand, I'm sure our organization and explanation of ideas has helped spread, advance, and solidify some fetish and other concepts, aiding creators in pushing the envelope. They'd have a harder time drawing things they don't understand or haven't seen.

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. Legally transferring the rights of the work from the artist is not as simple as "they said yes in a dmail, I own their art now". That's also a great way to piss off artists and ensure you never get a commission again. Just respect the wishes of artists and everyone will have a good time.

As for why artists hate e621? That's obvious. We are a booru based site, not a personal gallery. Uploading is done by the community and the artist can't micromanage their posts or the comments beneath them. A lot take issue with this and call it theft, despite us having their permission. It's unfortunate that your art got taken down, but that's just the nature of furry art.

rainbow_dash said:
I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. Legally transferring the rights of the work from the artist is not as simple as "they said yes in a dmail, I own their art now". That's also a great way to piss off artists and ensure you never get a commission again. Just respect the wishes of artists and everyone will have a good time.

As for why artists hate e621? That's obvious. We are a booru based site, not a personal gallery. Uploading is done by the community and the artist can't micromanage their posts or the comments beneath them. A lot take issue with this and call it theft, despite us having their permission. It's unfortunate that your art got taken down, but that's just the nature of furry art.

Hmm, didn't see 'owning' used, but I could understand someone having that (wrong) idea. Yeah, pulling a Microsoft makes more sense. Microsoft sold IBM a right to use DOS (like commissioners), but kept right (like artist) to sell (or distribute) copies to others. IOW: Artist maintains ownership but isn't allowed to prevent commissioner from letting others see it. If you read any TOS on say, an email service, they require you to not file copyright claims on the messages you sent. Yes, the lawyers were that specific because this actually came up. Every time a file moves through the wires is technically (re)distribution. XD There's actually an interesting story behind stuff like OS/2 related to that... the difference in a normal software license is you can't sell on your own copies like IBM did (I believe, it's been decades since reading about it).

Artists requiring being credited (or remaining anonymous) is perfectly reasonable, too. Most everyone I contacted on FA and IB wanted (as in mandatory) credit with link to source. There are a few posts I've seen where the artist did NOT want their name on it. While you could figure it out or tell which it likely was if familiar with a niche, it was probably for harassment prevention. Providing credit and tagging content helps people find artists they want to commission in the first place!

Owning would apply if you had a literal work for hire, which leads to the reason no one trusts the music industry.

aaronfranke said:
I'm very frustrated by art of characters I own the rights to getting taken down because the artists don't like e621. https://i.imgur.com/xLjjeY4.png

If I pay the artist money, why is it that they can suddenly one day decide I'm not allowed to post the art I paid for? I know copyright is more complicated than that, but it's frustrating.

Anyway, this is just a rant, I don't expect any mods to reverse the decision. I'm just going to... get all this art redrawn by a different artist.

The easiest way to approach this is to just ask the artist if they're willing to make an exception for your commissions. While they are deleted now we are more than happy to restore them should the artist agree to that. And plenty are willing to make that exception even if they don't think of it at the time they request the takedown. Give it a shot and see what happens, you might be pleasantly surprised.

As for how to prevent that in the future? You effectively can't unless purchase unlimited or exclusive distribution rights to your commissions and most artists either don't agree to that or will, as a rough guidelines, ask for double the price.

abadbird said:
If you don't like your art being taken down (from anywhere), then you can do what the commissioner of post #3066042 did. From now on, have your artists agree to a contract allowing you noncommercial distribution rights before payment or cancel your commission. Looks like that contract overrides full artist DNP. On E621 artists are given takedown priority by default, so you would be acquiring that legal right from your artists through a contract. Hell, you could even message NotMeNotYou with a draft contract and ask if that would override an artist's takedown request. Make sure you actually record artists agreeing to your contract.

In that specific case the artist agreed to allow the image on e621, the details are more complex though. While we're more than happy to mediate between parties, we're not actually bound to adhere to any such contracts and will side with the party that has the better claim, and that might go directly against any informal or formal contract.

We reserve discretion in such matters, and will handle them on a case by case basis.

Also I'm not a lawyer so I will absolutely not help anyone write a legal contract for any reason, that could get me in a lot of legal trouble I do not want anything to do with. If anyone wants a legally binding contract they need to hire a properly licensed attorney of their own for that, plenty available for hire everywhere.

abadbird said:
I don't really want to speculate on why people don't like e621 (i.e., known unknowns). Furries gossip a lot. They are young and definitely the least mature group I'm a part of. Anyway, I had used my previous e621 profile picture for, let's say, 8 years when suddenly I logged in and it was deleted for takedown #16561 with the entire stated reason Whimsy and spite, which is garbage LOL, but people can put whatever they want for their takedown reason. I own no furry characters or art so whatever. A braixen is fine too.

that's a good one lmoa, you'll probably love takedown #19460 too.

but yeah, people are fallible. not everyone understands what it means to share their work online, nor the fallacies of their own opinions. a lack of ability to reflect on your presence can be quite intoxicating not only to yourself but the people that consume your work. regardless, is their right to do so.

it's why I run hard into full freedom of information --GNU type shit. I'll allow anything I make to distribute et modify freely with the only request (not requirement) that you give credit. if only I had any follow-through at actually getting good at drawing, maybe I might have more stake on that matter.

e6 by contrast could be related a lot like the older days of Steam when greenlight was just starting to become a thing.

edit: point being, the best way to get the artists back on board with e621 is to convince them that it's worth contributing their art here. whether that's an externalized decision or internalized as I have.

notmenotyou said:

As for how to prevent that in the future? You effectively can't unless purchase unlimited or exclusive distribution rights to your commissions and most artists either don't agree to that or will, as a rough guidelines, ask for double the price.

do people actually do this? I've only ever seen this happen with more commercial artists, and beginner artists following those types of artists.

Best guess is that it's solely meant to be a deterrent from actual malicious actors (We've all seen the HTTYD shirt, I believe. Free advertising moment.)

notmenotyou said:
In that specific case the artist agreed to allow the image on e621, the details are more complex though. While we're more than happy to mediate between parties, we're not actually bound to adhere to any such contracts and will side with the party that has the better claim, and that might go directly against any informal or formal contract.

We reserve discretion in such matters, and will handle them on a case by case basis.

Also I'm not a lawyer so I will absolutely not help anyone write a legal contract for any reason, that could get me in a lot of legal trouble I do not want anything to do with. If anyone wants a legally binding contract they need to hire a properly licensed attorney of their own for that, plenty available for hire everywhere.

Thank you for the clarifications. As an observer to the post #3066042 situation, the commissioner's contract seemed to "win" a DNP tug-of-war, but now it seems more happened than is public and we didn't "enforce" the commissioner's contract, I suppose.

I think, as a baseline statement, it's a good idea for the commissioner to communicate with the artist before payment and work begins what the commissioner wants to do with the art, where they want to show it, etc. That way, if the artist "hates e621," then hard feelings can be avoided or perhaps an exception agreed to beforehand.

It's different in the case of a commission, but I think a lot of people on e621 forget that you're still reuploading someone's art.
Which is a big issue for many artists since they understandably want control over their art & comments.

E621's reputation is another reason. Some people see it as a pornsite and don't like that. Or maybe they have a problem with the whole furry aspect.
I also remember one artist back when I used FA, Strype, took everything down because a lot of art thieves came from here.

aversioncapacitor' said:
do people actually do this? I've only ever seen this happen with more commercial artists, and beginner artists following those types of artists.

Best guess is that it's solely meant to be a deterrent from actual malicious actors (We've all seen the HTTYD shirt, I believe. Free advertising moment.)

I don't think I've ever heard of an artist giving a commissioner limited distribution rights but I think the exclusive distribution rights thing is more about having fresh examples to show off for potential customers.

popoto said:
I also remember one artist back when I used FA, Strype, took everything down because a lot of art thieves came from here.

What do you mean by "art thieves"?

Some artists use that phrase to mean "people who repost their artwork without asking for consent".
Which muddies the water quite a bit since it equates those people with those who claim someone else's artwork as their own.

cinder said:
What do you mean by "art thieves"?

Some artists use that phrase to mean "people who repost their artwork without asking for consent".
Which muddies the water quite a bit since it equates those people with those who claim someone else's artwork as their own.

I'm talking about people on f-list claiming the characters belong to them. Not people posting it on e621.

I couldn't find the journal, but there's this tweet
https://twitter.com/strypeisonfire/status/973823720493117442

aversioncapacitor' said:

Best guess is that it's solely meant to be a deterrent from actual malicious actors (We've all seen the HTTYD shirt, I believe. Free advertising moment.)

This is pretty common, as it turns out. Even happened to me once, with a drawing I made years ago. (post #3248959)

Am I gonna do anything about it? Nah. I genuinely don't care. If you wanna buy a dragon titty mousepad from China, go for it. At least it's not on a children's shirt. That would be weird.

popoto said:
I'm talking about people on f-list claiming the characters belong to them. Not people posting it on e621.

I couldn't find the journal, but there's this tweet
https://twitter.com/strypeisonfire/status/973823720493117442

But... that makes no sense.
How is that any different from people on F-list using posts from Twitter or FA and claiming that the characters belong to them?

cinder said:
But... that makes no sense.
How is that any different from people on F-list using posts from Twitter or FA and claiming that the characters belong to them?

Ease of access. It's a double-edged sword. Worth keeping in mind is that most of it is probably mis-blamed on e6, given most folks who do that I've come across downloaded a bot-scraped version off r34.

votp said:
Ease of access. It's a double-edged sword. Worth keeping in mind is that most of it is probably mis-blamed on e6, given most folks who do that I've come across downloaded a bot-scraped version off r34.

It really do be like that. It's crazy

cinder said:
But... that makes no sense.
How is that any different from people on F-list using posts from Twitter or FA and claiming that the characters belong to them?

Same reason artists takedown their work here citing "I don't want my art trained on AI" after hearing there was an AI model using images from e6. Visibility and mindshare. They're aware of the issue occurring with this site and try to stop it, while being unaware of models also using Twitter, DA, FA, etc, that they still have their art on too, showing the futility of the attempt (like patching a hole in swiss cheese).

watsit said:
Same reason artists takedown their work here citing "I don't want my art trained on AI" after hearing there was an AI model using images from e6. Visibility and mindshare. They're aware of the issue occurring with this site and try to stop it, while being unaware of models also using Twitter, DA, FA, etc, that they still have their art on too, showing the futility of the attempt (like patching a hole in swiss cheese).

To be fair, e6 is particularly good for AI training, due to the large amount of metadata. The tags on images are invaluable for training AI, both in creation and recognition, in a way that no other site matches. Other sites have a title, and maybe a description; here, we have a user-curated list of content in every image, in an easily parsable format. Plenty of wrong and missing tags of course, but still more reliable metadeta than any other site I know of. If an artist doesn't want their work replicated by AI but still wants to show it publicly, limiting the amount of available metadata is a decent start. Then someone has to manually curate it before training an AI, at least, which is infeasible for bulk data.

watsit said:
Same reason artists takedown their work here citing "I don't want my art trained on AI" after hearing there was an AI model using images from e6. Visibility and mindshare. They're aware of the issue occurring with this site and try to stop it, while being unaware of models also using Twitter, DA, FA, etc, that they still have their art on too, showing the futility of the attempt (like patching a hole in swiss cheese).

Also we're getting artists filing for DNP over e6AI existing.

popoto said:
I also remember one artist back when I used FA, Strype, took everything down because a lot of art thieves came from here.

Google and Getty :evilgrin:

votp said:
Ease of access. It's a double-edged sword. Worth keeping in mind is that most of it is probably mis-blamed on e6, given most folks who do that I've come across downloaded a bot-scraped version off r34.

And again reminded of Getty.

watsit said:
Same reason artists takedown their work here citing "I don't want my art trained on AI" after hearing there was an AI model using images from e6. Visibility and mindshare. They're aware of the issue occurring with this site and try to stop it, while being unaware of models also using Twitter, DA, FA, etc, that they still have their art on too, showing the futility of the attempt (like patching a hole in swiss cheese).

And Bing/Google/Yandex, haha.

scth said:
To be fair, e6 is particularly good for AI training, due to the large amount of metadata. The tags on images are invaluable for training AI, both in creation and recognition, in a way that no other site matches. Other sites have a title, and maybe a description; here, we have a user-curated list of content in every image, in an easily parsable format. Plenty of wrong and missing tags of course, but still more reliable metadeta than any other site I know of. If an artist doesn't want their work replicated by AI but still wants to show it publicly, limiting the amount of available metadata is a decent start. Then someone has to manually curate it before training an AI, at least, which is infeasible for bulk data.

Good point, but Yandex (and lesser, Google) seem decent at getting the right keywords for images. Also, now people have training sets for _tagging_ based on the popular boorus. This ship done sailed. You could remove all the boorus and art sites like FA/IB/etc. and they'd already have that database. It's like what, a thousand dollars for enough storage space to cover all of them? And you don't need them all unless retraining.

magnuseffect said:
Also we're getting artists filing for DNP over e6AI existing.

Blaming the messenger. We didn't start this fire. We're just the forest rangers. :(

Summarized:

• Artist has issues with content on e6, especially young and feral
• Artist feels attacked because e6 labeled their art as an evilbadwrong fetish
• young is subject to TWYS (insert semi-recent TalentlessHack/"small pokemon are cubs" drama)
• feral on non-feral is labeled bestiality regardless of intelligence (admittedly, never heard of this driving an artist to DNP, but it's probably happened at least once)
• Artist thinks reposting should be opt-in, e6 is opt-out, result: e6 are "thieves"
• Artist who has committed the evilbadwrong (e.g. Kabier and Jasonafex) continues to get exposure/isn't banned from e6, other artists angry at e6 for "enabling" them or some shit
• Artist politics do not jive with e6
• gender is subject to TWYS (insert ye olden Reggie_(Whygena) drama)
• formerly, e6 used the tags dickgirl and cuntboy and some artists were pissy (some are still pissy over herm)
• when e6 changed those tags to gynomoph and andromorph different artists got pissy that they were being censored/e6 was trying to control language
• Spite
• Artist gets into fight with e6 staff, goes takedowns+DNP as "revenge"
• Artist can't control the tags and comments on their art and is salty about it
• Artist's art got downvoted a bunch and they're salty about it
• AI discourse
• At least one major model publicly states it was (is?) trained on e6
• e6ai exists and is very obviously associated with e621, sharing several staff members and the same contact information

potentialgoat said:
Summarized:

• gender is subject to TWYS (insert ye olden Reggie_(Whygena) drama)

Gender is specifically -not- subject to TWYS. Sex is. However, e621 calls sex "gender" so it can call 'sexual acts' 'sex' unambiguously, and also has the lore tags for actually tagging ("TWYK") gender.
I don't blame some people for being confused by this juggling of terms, quite separate from any political flag waving they might be attempting. (but if they are not interested in understanding, I do blame them for that :)

Other than that it's a good summary.

savageorange said:
Gender is specifically -not- subject to TWYS. Sex is. However, e621 calls sex "gender" so it can call 'sexual acts' 'sex' unambiguously, and also has the lore tags for actually tagging ("TWYK") gender.
I don't blame some people for being confused by this juggling of terms, quite separate from any political flag waving they might be attempting. (but if they are not interested in understanding, I do blame them for that :)

Other than that it's a good summary.

well, not sex either, since we can't actually know a character's biology by looking at them.

the general gender tags are used for gender expression, a concept separate from both identity and biology. identity and biology are both handled by lore tags.

potentialgoat said:
Summarized:

• Artist who has committed the evilbadwrong (e.g. Kabier and Jasonafex) continues to get exposure/isn't banned from e6, other artists angry at e6 for "enabling" them or some shit

why does everyone on here hate Kabier and Jasonafex, yet nobody can actually prove they did anything bad? everyone just links to other baseless accusations. It's just repetitive and off topic when every other post focuses on what they allegedly did instead of comments on the art.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
why does everyone on here hate Kabier and Jasonafex, yet nobody can actually prove they did anything bad?

Some people just think they act like huge assholes. They've seen them be nasty on social media and don't like it.

cloudpie said:
Some people just think they act like huge assholes. They've seen them be nasty on social media and don't like it.

keep the drama on social media then. We don't need it here

hjfduitloxtrds said:
keep the drama on social media then. We don't need it here

I agree the angry comments don't belong here on an art archive, just explaining another reason why people dislike them, since you asked.

I heard from alot of random Ex-artists saying.: artist #1: "e621 too strict with tagging." artist#2: "They telling me to talk about drama on twitter, and I get my e621 account perm banned for doing so." artist #3 "I got a record for saying one harmless word." artist #4: "The public being able to see your negative records on your account is asking for defamation and bias on your arts and comments." artist #5 " I quit e621 because people comment hateful things about my work when they can just blacklist it. But there comments is still up on my art work. The staff never hidden it or removed it." The artist's obviously want to stay anonymous. Wait why they link to random artists?

icereavers said:
Wait why they link to random artists?

because typing artist #x links to the artist with the index number x

aaronfranke said:
I'm very frustrated by art of characters I own the rights to getting taken down because the artists don't like e621. https://i.imgur.com/xLjjeY4.png

If I pay the artist money, why is it that they can suddenly one day decide I'm not allowed to post the art I paid for? I know copyright is more complicated than that, but it's frustrating.

Anyway, this is just a rant, I don't expect any mods to reverse the decision. I'm just going to... get all this art redrawn by a different artist.

I think it's important to respect the decision an artist makes to not post the art anywhere else. But idk where this whole BD is zoophilic spawns from.

marbled_meteors said:
But idk where this whole BD is zoophilic spawns from.

I feel like a big reason the rumor spreads is that people want to post-hoc justify their dislike of BadDragon/Dragonfruit websites so they'll just say "Varka's a zoo" because they heard someone else say it and they never verified it.

https://ozyandmillie.org/2000/02-03/index.html Red Dragon scare.

Meh, old reference.

technical-grid said:
As for the twitter and it's idiotic cancel culture, all it takes are some baseless rumours, so that the NPC-artists would start to bandwagon against something.
It's a shame that some art gets removed but what can you do... The best course of action is to just personally backup the stuff you like in case the artist goes apeshit. Same things happen frequently with fanfictions.

Imo e6 is the best site for this kind of art period. Nothing beats a functional tagging system with an optional blacklist, active moderation and the ability to accurately search old posts. FF and Twitter don't come even close and the only reason why they're even used, is because a lot of casuals are using that site for drama, which helps snowballing up your follower count.

icereavers said:
I heard from alot of random Ex-artists saying.: artist #1: "e621 too strict with tagging." artist#2: "They telling me to talk about drama on twitter, and I get my e621 account perm banned for doing so." artist #3 "I got a record for saying one harmless word." artist #4: "The public being able to see your negative records on your account is asking for defamation and bias on your arts and comments." artist #5 " I quit e621 because people comment hateful things about my work when they can just blacklist it. But there comments is still up on my art work. The staff never hidden it or removed it." The artist's obviously want to stay anonymous. Wait why they link to random artists?

Both are very true. I wish there was some kind of website to fill the niche of having a well-maintained booru while still giving artists control over their work. I'm pretty sure the comments section is solely responsible for a good chunk of DNPs.

aversioncapacitor' said:
that's a good one lmoa, you'll probably love takedown #19460 too.

^{I don't think we're allowed to talk about that artist}

hjfduitloxtrds said:
why does everyone on here hate Kabier and Jasonafex, yet nobody can actually prove they did anything bad? everyone just links to other baseless accusations. It's just repetitive and off topic when every other post focuses on what they allegedly did instead of comments on the art.

Not entirely baseless, but I agree that e621 isn't the place for such drama, and admins have every right and responsibility to ban people that drag external drama into the comments. Though I find it really weird that JasonFX seems to get extra/active protection, while another popular artist ^{(who I'm scared to name)} was forced to endure months of harassment with barely any moderator intervention ^{(aside from them suddenly deleting all of his artwork off the site when he never asked them to)}

For example, a lot of negative comments pertaining to JFX or Kabier have been getting deleted. Yet, not a single comment of harassment or defamation was deleted for the other artist, so people would just keep seeing those comments and then bringing it up in the next image, and the next, and the next...

I don't really know the full story for either of them, though. I'm just really confused about why they'd erase one person's gallery over Twitter drama, while going the extra mile to protect someone else against similar drama. I'm not going to name them or give anymore details though because it isn't really worth getting banned over. I'll just keep checking their Twitter once in a while, as much as I hate using that site.

hjfduitloxtrds said:
keep the drama on social media then. We don't need it here

Also why it'd be nice if artists could just disable comments on their own artwork. There's just no stopping people from bringing Twitter drama into the comments, no matter how hard you try.

dragonslurpr34 said:
Both are very true. I wish there was some kind of website to fill the niche of having a well-maintained booru while still giving artists control over their work. I'm pretty sure the comments section is solely responsible for a good chunk of DNPs.

^{I don't think we're allowed to talk about that artist}

Not entirely baseless, but I agree that e621 isn't the place for such drama, and admins have every right and responsibility to ban people that drag external drama into the comments. Though I find it really weird that JasonFX seems to get extra/active protection, while another popular artist ^{(who I'm scared to name)} was forced to endure months of harassment with barely any moderator intervention ^{(aside from them suddenly deleting all of his artwork off the site when he never asked them to)}

For example, a lot of negative comments pertaining to JFX or Kabier have been getting deleted. Yet, not a single comment of harassment or defamation was deleted for the other artist, so people would just keep seeing those comments and then bringing it up in the next image, and the next, and the next...

I don't really know the full story for either of them, though. I'm just really confused about why they'd erase one person's gallery over Twitter drama, while going the extra mile to protect someone else against similar drama. I'm not going to name them or give anymore details though because it isn't really worth getting banned over. I'll just keep checking their Twitter once in a while, as much as I hate using that site.

Also why it'd be nice if artists could just disable comments on their own artwork. There's just no stopping people from bringing Twitter drama into the comments, no matter how hard you try.

Disabling comments is suck mode, though. It's why I won't even link directly to newspapers, anymore. Although in their case it's because if the owners wanted your opinion, they'd give you it. ;)

As much as I like for artists to have an option to disable comments. The comments are needed for an example: To clear up come confusion like this art - https://e621.net/posts/1337432?

icereavers said:
As much as I like for artists to have an option to disable comments. The comments are needed for an example: To clear up come confusion like this art - https://e621.net/posts/1337432?

Look mom, im on tv!

I personally would disable comments from some pics I made. On other hand I like reading comments because some are so funny and gives me a good laugh.
post #2485561

icereavers said:
As much as I like for artists to have an option to disable comments. The comments are needed for an example: To clear up come confusion like this art - https://e621.net/posts/1337432?

I don't think that's a very good example, since it's more efficient and preferable to just correct the tag yourself, plus you can leave a note in the changelog. I think anything important could and should be resolved yourself or by contacting a mod/janny directly, because leaving a note/complaint in the comments about it is the least productive course of action. If there's something important about an image that you want to discuss among users, the forum is also a better place for that, since you're more likely to get advice from people that actually contribute to the site and not random people that're just there to be horny or cause drama.

blitzveeteam said:
I personally would disable comments from some pics I made. On other hand I like reading comments because some are so funny and gives me a good laugh.
post #2485561

I think it'd do more good than harm to give artist like you that choice. If the comments under your art are funny, then you can just leave them up, no harm no foul. But if they turn into huge, pointless arguments and slander attempts, you'll have the option to put an end to it.