Posted under General
Gumroad silently updated their help page on NSFW content. All of it is banned effective today.
https://help.gumroad.com/article/156-gumroad-and-adult-content
If you have previously bought NSFW content from Gumroad I recommend you download it all now. Especially if it's from an artist who is no longer active.
They conveniently removed the option to bulk download as a zip some time ago, but there is a script available.
https://gist.github.com/virgiliu/eefbadef4de9d2ecb2e01020ae471892
time to make really impulsive purchasing decisions on itch.io just in case they too make a similarly stupid move
dripen_arn said:
time to make really impulsive purchasing decisions on itch.io just in case they too make a similarly stupid move
Well technically you aren't allowed to sell anything against Paypals and Stripes TOS on itch.io
Oy, another one on the list to avoid. ๐๐ค
skulblakka said:
Well technically you aren't allowed to sell anything against Paypals and Stripes TOS on itch.io
Interesting how the western world has its own Morality Police.
Until people decide that crypto (or any other form of currency that's transferable without the requirement of a third party intermediary) is the lesser evil compared to the payment processor cabal this will keep happening.
There was a while that the only way to pay for PornHub Premium was with crypto, and in some jurisdictions it still is the only way. If companies that big get fucked over by the payment processors, Gumroad doesn't stand a fucking chance.
Patreon and Ko-Fi also recently updated their terms too to even further restrictive on NSFW content, most notably the mass removal of ABDL content from Patreon, but also a lot of stuff that cosplay content is now falling foul of like depictions of aroused genitalia, bodily fluids or masturbation.
Drawn content is possibly exempt from the above? Who knows, companies never really have a good track record of applying their own terms properly.
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calydor said:
Interesting how the western world has its own Morality Police.
I'm pretty sure we've always had them. The term 'pearl-clutchers' is as old as dirt. They couldn't do it legitimately using the government because of pesky laws, so they got government-protected/supported monopolies and oligarchies to do it for them.
The more frustrating thing is laws blatantly designed to be enabling acts for literal Morality Police (in the Roman sense of the word 'Censor') to be able to chill free speech. You setup the infrastructure for something that 'protects the children'/'fights drugs'/'stops them foreigners' and then conveniently, it's just there to use with the stroke of a pen for anything else. UK is infamous for this during the last 20+ years.
I... suspect that Gumroad is done, then.
I read that JustForFans is opening its doors to this.
alexyorim said:
I read that JustForFans is opening its doors to this.
the "providing artists and creators the option to release 1-time payment items in a sort of 'shop' format" part that gumroad used to do, or the "ban all artists and creators doing porn" part that gumroad is currently doing?
dripen_arn said:
the "providing artists and creators the option to release 1-time payment items in a sort of 'shop' format" part that gumroad used to do, or the "ban all artists and creators doing porn" part that gumroad is currently doing?
The latter made JustForFans open its window of opportunity. I'm half-surprised that OnlyFans didn't give it a shot.
There are also other platforms like SubscribeStar that people talk about as Gumroad and Patreon alternatives.
alphamule said:
I'm pretty sure we've always had them. The term 'pearl-clutchers' is as old as dirt. They couldn't do it legitimately using the government because of pesky laws, so they got government-protected/supported monopolies and oligarchies to do it for them.The more frustrating thing is laws blatantly designed to be enabling acts for literal Morality Police (in the Roman sense of the word 'Censor') to be able to chill free speech. You setup the infrastructure for something that 'protects the children'/'fights drugs'/'stops them foreigners' and then conveniently, it's just there to use with the stroke of a pen for anything else. UK is infamous for this during the last 20+ years.
I... suspect that Gumroad is done, then.
It all stems from Mastercard-Visa/Paypal shenanigans, probably due to NCOSE and Exodus Cry.
votp said:
It all stems from Mastercard-Visa/Paypal shenanigans, probably due to NCOSE and Exodus Cry.
I just call them Moronity in Media and Charismatic Control Freaks.
faucet said:
Until people decide that crypto (or any other form of currency that's transferable without the requirement of a third party intermediary) is the lesser evil compared to the payment processor cabal this will keep happening.
This happens because of pressure from payment processors. most people can only access crypto through exchanges- banks, dependent on remaining in the good graces of payment processors.
Isn't easier for future platform like that make so you can buy "credits" but not the products itself and then these products are paid by credits? Seems to be a way to obscure or at least leave the responsibility to the buyers than the platform....
notknow said:
Isn't easier for future platform like that make so you can buy "credits" but not the products itself and then these products are paid by credits? Seems to be a way to obscure or at least leave the responsibility to the buyers than the platform....
You mean... like crypto? Or DA Points?
votp said:
You mean... like crypto? Or DA Points?
An artist on a site making users jump through hoops or buy monopoly money to purchase their services is inherently put at a disadvantage versus an artist that can simply accept payments. Any site that simply accepts payments is a time bomb for bank censorship until payment processors are legally prevented from using their position to unilaterally dictate what people can spend their money on. Any alternative platform WILL face the same decision when it gets large enough to notice.
arrow189 said:
An artist on a site making users jump through hoops or buy monopoly money to purchase their services is inherently put at a disadvantage versus an artist that can simply accept payments. Any site that simply accepts payments is a time bomb for bank censorship until payment processors are legally prevented from using their position to unilaterally dictate what people can spend their money on. Any alternative platform WILL face the same decision when it gets large enough to notice.
Pick your poison. Static site with a workaround that is less-than-convenient, or jump sites every few years when the card of mustard decides to kill them. Subscribestar seems to be doing decently with it's setup, although that's for recurring payments rather than purchasing.
arrow189 said:
This happens because of pressure from payment processors. most people can only access crypto through exchanges- banks, dependent on remaining in the good graces of payment processors.
Of course, some banks already deny transactions to exchanges for """security reasons""" and it would only get worse when our reptile overlords that don't want us accessing porn figure out there's a large number of people buying crypto specifically to access porn. I still think it would be much harder to justify than preventing payments to hardcore porn.
The Visa-Mastercard duopoly spans most of the globe, both of which are American, so even payment processors outside the US are likely to be bound to the same rules. The EU has finally grown balls and started fining American tech companies that abuse their monopolies in Europe (see Apple) but I really doubt anybody is going to risk their political career being the defender of Internet porn.
Most people's opinion on crypto still ranges from "it's bad for the environment" to "only scammers use it" so it's not like people will accept it as the lesser evil any time soon, anyway. Any furry site that intended to have crypto payments has usually met a very negative public reception which was worse for their business than just accepting the payment processors.
welp gumroad already removed the paypal option on checkout. now your only option is to just give them your credit card info
vadersan and kadath both got 50% off closing sales going now, call me a luddite but would it be a bad idea to just pay with my card directly?
votp said:
Pick your poison. Static site with a workaround that is less-than-convenient, or jump sites every few years when the card of mustard decides to kill them. Subscribestar seems to be doing decently with it's setup, although that's for recurring payments rather than purchasing.
How about: c-suiters in prison cells every time they try to control speech. Not easy to accomplish but actually, you know, solves the problem
votp said:
You mean... like crypto? Or DA Points?
Not exactly crypto, the points are just for use in that page, yeah I think its DA Points. But if that doesn't make much of a difference, welp...
arrow189 said:
This happens because of pressure from payment processors. most people can only access crypto through exchanges- banks, dependent on remaining in the good graces of payment processors.
From what I understand, part of the pressure is antiporn crusaders, but also, from USDoJ and others. It's a mess of an issue. Pray your business never gets classified by your bank as "high-risk" (often a sign of money laundering), either. There's tons of reasons for payments to just... stop working . You can get caught in the middle as an innocent party. Paypal has in some ways been far more heavy-handed than even MC and Visa with holding onto people's money. Not sure if they still do that to that degree (we're talking 6 months+).
I've been using Subscribe* and it works for subscriptions but man I hate subscriptions. XD
I was using Gumroad because they allowed NSFW image packs, when I could find an artist offering them on there. They had the most convenient interface, too! :(
BTW: I suspect there would be less issues if people clearly warn that paid site versions are also censored. There's reasons that credit cards are a mixed blessing for people selling porn. Bad customers who abuse them, alongside legit complaints.
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Looks like the Gumroad has potholes
dripen_arn said:
welp gumroad already removed the paypal option on checkout. now your only option is to just give them your credit card infovadersan and kadath both got 50% off closing sales going now, call me a luddite but would it be a bad idea to just pay with my card directly?
Wow, that is ๐ฉ
I have downloaded art packs in the past, and would grab a few last ones in the interim if they still processed paypal; no way am I giving them card info :|
......
~~~Gumroad Bans NSFW... Anti-Cub Hypocrites Cry... I Laugh~~~
The "Payment Processors" and "Credit Card Companies" are trying to dictate how you spend YOUR money... kinda like what PayPal did a long time ago... they don't want you spending YOUR money on "Unwholesome Purchases" such as "Furry Porn" lol lol lol...
This greatly amuses me... why go after ART & ARTISTS specifically..... as if it's the WORST THING you can spend your money on? I'm sure there's more than a few MasterCard users withdrawing cash to spend on drugs or other illicit services, but I guess that's not as important as stopping "Joe Shmoe the Furry Artist For Hire" from drawing NSFW artwork of Tails or Buster Bunny or Kit Cloudkicker....
The Gumroad drama is a crappy situation for sure... but it does have one ironic side effect... giving a nice dose of KARMA to anyone who ever preached "Absolute Purity In Fiction At All Times" ... You know the ones.... those who loudly demanded the banning of "certain types of artwork" (Cub, Feral, Loli, Shota, or other such content deemed "problematic" by the New Generation of "Burned Fur" Fiction Cops).
To all those folks who participated in the pushing of Overly Broad Censorship -- I laugh at your plight and I hope you enjoy this "Taste of Your Own Medicine."
Putting artistic freedom in the hands of the Payment Processors and the Credit Card Companies sure was a bad idea, huh? .... about as stupid as putting it in the hands of some hypocrite politician....
Allow me to share these lovely quotes by author Neil Gaiman:
"If there is something you consider indefensible, and there is something you consider defensible, and the same laws can take them both out, you are going to find yourself defending the indefensible."~Neil Gaiman
........
"Laws do not differentiate between what you like and what you don't like.... prosecutors are humans who bear grudges and fight for re-election.... one person's obscenity is another person's art."~Neil Gaiman
........
BTW, did you know that in the USA -- artwork of this nature is PERFECTLY LEGAL to create and own?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256
Section 9 and Section 11... GO READ IT....
It's the exact same law link that Dragoneer quoted back in 2006 when people were pressuring FurAffinity to ban Cub....
Oh, and did you know that Dragoneer had artwork of his "Preyfar" Fursona in the old old old Softpaw Magazines??? It's true!
(Not that it matters and not that I care, I just think the dude is a massive hypocrite).
Also, here is a lovely article written by a LAWYER FURRY who goes by the name of "Boozy Badger."
I had to use the WayBack Machine to get a working link, since the original site that hosted this article is no longer available.
Annnnnyway, I want the Anti-Cub nutjobs from Twitter & Tumblr to pay close attention to the words in that article....
Next time some self-righteous goofy floof comes here to demand that e621 cave in to THEIR personal whims and ban cub art -- direct them to that article....
And for extra measure... THE U.S. LAW DOES NOT CONSIDER A CARTOON TO BE THE SAME AS A "PERSON."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8
If you want the laws to change, CHANGE THEM YOURSELF... or move to a country that has the Fiction Restriction Laws you like so much!
There's Canada, France, UK, Australia, and Italy! Take your pick!
............
If you cheer for MORE overly broad, over-reaching censorship and it COMES BACK TO BITE YOU IN THE ASS... as far as I'm concerned, you got exactly what you were asking for... You were fine with voting for the "Leopards Eating People's Faces" party, until the Leopards started eating YOUR face...
Y'all didn't care that other people were being unfairly targeted for what they draw, so long as the rules weren't affecting YOU. Once the rules started to come after YOUR stuff, you were suddenly "Pro Artistic Freedom and Anti-Censorship" ... but only for yourselves... not for others... I hope nobody forgets that and I hope nobody lets you live that down...
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veruke_assault said:
Text
Yeah, sadly that means lots of cub content there are also gone with this ban including some Kemono artists that are really hard to convince to publish on overseas page, after Tumblr and Gumroad it will be like pulling teeth to ask them to do it again lol, Baraag is being hard enough...
notknow said:
Yeah, sadly that means lots of cub content there are also gone with this ban including some Kemono artists that are really hard to convince to publish on overseas page, after Tumblr and Gumroad it will be like pulling teeth to ask them to do it again lol, Baraag is being hard enough...
Didn't Pixiv decide "we're not going to let any non Japanese users use our website -- because your laws regarding the content suck."
......Or did I just imagine that?
veruke_assault said:
Didn't Pixiv decide "we're not going to let any non Japanese users use our website -- because your laws regarding the content suck."......Or did I just imagine that?
you can just change your location in the user settings and it works fine.
you know I could be wrong but isnt what these pay companies like paypal and such considered illegal in the EU? like a pay service isnt allowed to dictate what people spend their money on or prevent them from doing so? if so Im pretty sure if EU legal was pushed in paypals and the others direction they'll be forced to about face REALLY quick
kathyohneke said:
you know I could be wrong but isnt what these pay companies like paypal and such considered illegal in the EU? like a pay service isnt allowed to dictate what people spend their money on or prevent them from doing so? if so Im pretty sure if EU legal was pushed in paypals and the others direction they'll be forced to about face REALLY quick
I don't think there's any specific laws against that, but I think it's a pretty flagrant abuse of a monopoly in my opinion. I can only hope the EU goes after them when they're done with their Big Tech beatdown. I don't think there's much regulation of payment processors themselves, and they've been weasling their way out of any regulations by changing up the way they operate in different countries. In some countries you can't have a PayPal balance on your account anymore because that would classify them as a bank and their bullshit would not fly if they were bound by banking regulations.
I'm pretty surprised PayPal didn't end up in the list of gatekeepers in the DMA (yet somehow things like TikTok and LinkedIn did?) - though maybe their market share was just low enough in the EU to avoid it? I know a lot of EU websites don't even take PayPal at all because there's actually a good number of payment processors there (Klarna, Giropay, etc.) on top of the fact more people are willing to just enter their credit card details into websites because they haven't had some primal fear of doing it instilled into them by PayPal in the first place.
faucet said:
more people are willing to just enter their credit card details into websites because they haven't had some primal fear of doing it instilled into them byPaypalEveryone in the first place.
Actually, isn't the entire point of 3rd-party payment verification? Which of course, Paypal offers, too. The idea being that the site hands you over to your card company with a token which is then used to get a temporary authorization for that exact amount and recipient. It's probably fair to say that Paypal was among many pushing for that fear, though.
