The day that happens will be the day this place turns into a ghost town like Fchan did... and FurAffinity has been getting worse and worse... whatever happened to that "tagging system" Dragoneer was talking about implementing? I read about that on Flayrah.... (along with the stuff about the "Short Pokemon Ban" lol lol lol... Dragoneer used to be such an intelligent, logical and PRO ARTISTIC FREEDOM type of dude, until he guzzled the Twitter / Tumblr Kool-Aid and decided that "Fiction Directly Affects Reality."

You guys won't ever do that though.... right???? This place is SAFE from that crap.... right? I pray it stays that way... don't listen to the Twitter / Tumblr Crazies who keep pestering you to "Ban Cub" -- they're just a bunch of moral busybodies and Fiction Police who can't tell the difference between a drawing of a Cartoon Fox and a human person who actually exists...

You're better than that... don't ever forget that.... you are not FA or Fchan....

Don't go down the same road they went. Please, please, please....

Also -- to anyone who is upset about the drama with Gumroad / Patreon / MasterCard banning NSFW art, but you were at any point demanding the banning of Cub... welp... like the 80s rock band RATT says... "Round and round, what goes around comes around."

(I'm just expressing an opinion, please don't punish me for that....)

It's a little-known fact that FA only banned cub artwork when pressured to by advertising partners, they were hosting it for years before that despite objections from users.

e621 doesn't exactly have this problem, as all the advertising is done in-house by Bad Dragon / Dragonfruit.

faucet said:
It's a little-known fact that FA only banned cub artwork when pressured to by advertising partners, they were hosting it for years before that despite objections from users.

e621 doesn't exactly have this problem, as all the advertising is done in-house by Bad Dragon.

I thought FA caved to direct pressure from the "fiction = reality" crowd, I didn't realize it was because of the advertisers, lol.... and now the same crap is happening with Gumroad / Patreon / MasterCard.... why is a Credit Card company so friggin' concerned with what people buy???? What ELSE are they going to apply their morals to? LOL.... why focus entirely on artwork? There's probably people doing a whole lot worse with their money.... will MasterCard put a stop to that too?

.......

"Hello, this is John with MasterCard, we put a freeze on your account for buying Slayer albums. Here is a list of pre-approved Non-Offensive rock bands whose music you can buy."

I think it's easier for e621 ban access here from countries than ban the content lol.

If it does happens it would be nice to have like a notice weeks in advance so people could save it and/or transfer it for another page that would probably turn into a cub version of e621...

notknow said:
I think it's easier for e621 ban access here from countries than ban the content lol.

If it does happens it would be nice to have like a notice weeks in advance so people could save it and/or transfer it for another page that would probably turn into a cub version of e621...

Right, like how at the moment -- e621 is banned in North Carolina, lol... the rest of the USA and its legal system probably do not care about Furry Artwork, but for some reason North Carolina does (thank hell I don't live there).... and Canada and France both treat Furry Cub as being the same as genuine CSEM.... so may as well take away Canada and France's e6 privileges, lol..... that's a whole helluva lot better than CAVING IN and just outright BANNING the art to appease a small handful of complainers.

veruke_assault said:
Right, like how at the moment -- e621 is banned in North Carolina, lol... the rest of the USA and its legal system probably do not care about Furry Artwork, but for some reason North Carolina does (thank hell I don't live there).... and Canada and France both treat Furry Cub as being the same as genuine CSEM.... so may as well take away Canada and France's e6 privileges, lol..... that's a whole helluva lot better than CAVING IN and just outright BANNING the art to appease a small handful of complainers.

NC's ban isn't targeted at furry porn. It's targeted at content that is, "harmful to minors."

Defined here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-190.13.html

definitelynotafurry4 said:
NC's ban isn't targeted at furry porn. It's targeted at content that is, "harmful to minors."

Defined here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-190.13.html

The TV show Breaking Bad is "harmful to minors."

Eminem's music is "harmful to minors."

Violent Video Games are "harmful to minors."

What's the solution -- BAN it outright, or.... don't let minors see it?

Kinda feels like the same old arguments made by Frederick Wertham (comic books) -- Tipper Gore & PMRC (song lyrics) and Jack Thompson (Video Games)..... isn't that stuff "for mature audiences only" for a reason? If a kid sneaks into an R Rated movie they weren't supposed to see, is it the move director's fault? (remember the intro of the South Park Movie where the boys sneak in to see the Terrence & Philip Movie?).

veruke_assault said:
The TV show Breaking Bad is "harmful to minors."

Eminem's music is "harmful to minors."

Violent Video Games are "harmful to minors."

What's the solution -- BAN it outright, or.... don't let minors see it?

They didn't ban it outright. Also, your examples don't pass their definition. I don't agree with the law, but you're not presenting any facts...

definitelynotafurry4 said:
They didn't ban it outright. Also, your examples don't pass their definition. I don't agree with the law, but you're not presenting any facts...

Parents should be the ones held responsible for what content their children watch... if their kids sneak in to see the Terrence and Philip Movie when they weren't supposed to see it in the first place because it's "Rated R" don't blame Terrence and Philip, blame the parents who can't be bothered to watch their damn kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19CN_V6P9E

"Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words!"

~Sheila Broflovski

.......................

HEY EVERYONE.... I just had an amazing idea.... MANDATORY ID CARDS to get on the internet! Won't that be great? You'll have to take a picture of your Government ID to be able to get online! It'll be JUST LIKE that "Real Name & Real ID" policy that Facebook tried implementing! Trust me, it'll work! (/sarc)

https://www.eff.org/issues/national-ids

......................

veruke_assault said:
The TV show Breaking Bad is "harmful to minors."

Eminem's music is "harmful to minors."

Violent Video Games are "harmful to minors."

What's the solution -- BAN it outright, or.... don't let minors see it?

NC didn't ban anything it outright, they wanted to make adult sites like ours card anyone who tried to connect. e6 made the decision to block connections from NC and other places with similar requirements because they didn't want to deal with all the hassle it'd require to deal with that.

veruke_assault said:
"Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words!"

~Sheila Broflovski

gore, snuff, whitekitten, necrophilia, e254e. we host stuff way more violent and horrifying than you'd ever see in any mainstream movie theatre and certainly on television. heck, we host content more violent and horrifying than you'd find on most other surface-web adult websites.

sipothac said:
gore snuff whitekitten necrophilia we host stuff way more violent and horrifying than you'd likely see in any mainstream movie theatre and certainly on tv.

They're drawings though... and to compare violence done to a Fictional Character with violence done towards a Real Person is like.....

Trying to compare violence done to a Plushie with violence done towards a Real Animal....

(((Not saying YOU DID make that comparison, but the Twitter / Tumblr Furries DO... all the time)))

..................

I don't care what kind of "weird stuff" e621 hosts... because e621 isn't "those other Furry sites."

E621 and InkBunny are the only websites left that seem to genuinely value Freedom of Artistic Expression & Creation....

As someone else pointed out to me --- E621 is funded through whoever owns Bad Dragon, not d-bags like MasterCard / PayPal / Patreon / Gumroad... lol....

"The Corpies" (corporations) can't force e6 to scrub everything here to fit their personal morals....

And the outsiders (Fiction Cops) can't either.... and I hope it stays that way.....

veruke_assault said:
Right, like how at the moment -- e621 is banned in North Carolina, lol... the rest of the USA and its legal system probably do not care about Furry Artwork, but for some reason North Carolina does (thank hell I don't live there).... and Canada and France both treat Furry Cub as being the same as genuine CSEM.... so may as well take away Canada and France's e6 privileges, lol..... that's a whole helluva lot better than CAVING IN and just outright BANNING the art to appease a small handful of complainers.

also keep in mind while 'technically' illegal in some places like canada. no one really cares and anybody actually involved with the law considers it just art and not worth punishing anybody over. They'll add it on top of anything else VERY illegal a person may be doing but if looking at artwork is all your doing they generally leave people alone. Heck there were a couple times artists that got poked by legal for doing cub work? they basically just gave them a slap on the wrist, no permanent record and asked politely to stop drawing that with no real repercussions for going back to drawing it from what Ive been able to look into

kathyohneke said:
...they basically just gave them a slap on the wrist, no permanent record and asked politely to stop drawing that with no real repercussions for going back to drawing it from what Ive been able to look into

Wasn't there a Furry Artist on InkBunny who was from France and their country had very recently put laws on the books that put Fictional Cartoon Drawings on the same legal level as genuine CSEM???? But then they got set up with a REALLY GOOD LAWYER and they avoided jail time???? Personally, I don't see the point in jailing people for drawing young imaginary fictional anthro rabbits screwing each other... it just seems dumb, especially when you consider that there are WORSE / MORE IMPORTANT THINGS to be going after....

The Twitter Goofballs really really really want the USA to adopt the same laws as France & Canada... but... do they not understand how that will put EXTRA BURDEN on the legal system? Also, who is to say that these new laws won't get applied to "good wholesome artists whose characters are toooooootally not cub, just sorta young looking" lol lol lol....

I mean, we all saw what happened to "Short Pokemon" over at FurAffinity...

veruke_assault said:
Wasn't there a Furry Artist on InkBunny who was from France and their country had very recently put laws on the books that put Fictional Cartoon Drawings on the same legal level as genuine CSEM???? But then they got set up with a REALLY GOOD LAWYER and they avoided jail time???? Personally, I don't see the point in jailing people for drawing young imaginary fictional anthro rabbits screwing each other... it just seems dumb, especially when you consider that there are WORSE / MORE IMPORTANT THINGS to be going after....

The Twitter Goofballs really really really want the USA to adopt the same laws as France & Canada... but... do they not understand how that will put EXTRA BURDEN on the legal system? Also, who is to say that these new laws won't get applied to "good wholesome artists whose characters are toooooootally not cub, just sorta young looking" lol lol lol....

I mean, we all saw what happened to "Short Pokemon" over at FurAffinity...

True, t'was BunnyBits. Very stressful, not to mention expensive for her. Probably not the wisest use of public money ever, putting the boot down on someone for drawing.

quenir said:
True, t'was BunnyBits. Very stressful, not to mention expensive for her. Probably not the wisest use of public money ever, putting the boot down on someone for drawing.

Yup.... an incredibly stupid and pointless waste of tax money.... I could understand if it was money spent GOING AFTER ACTUAL CRIMINALS.... but going after people for DRAWING THINGS? That doesn't make any logical sense... since when is CREATING ARTWORK the same thing as COMMITTING A CRIME?

More and more, the weird puritanical world from the Nine Inch Nails "Year Zero" Alternative Reality Game seems to be COMING TRUE.....

---------------------------------------------------

https://www.nin.wiki/US_Bureau_of_Morality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhrnChYf23k

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

veruke_assault said:
Yup.... an incredibly stupid and pointless waste of tax money.... I could understand if it was money spent GOING AFTER ACTUAL CRIMINALS.... but going after people for DRAWING THINGS? That doesn't make any logical sense... since when is CREATING ARTWORK the same thing as COMMITTING A CRIME?

More and more, the weird puritanical world from the Nine Inch Nails "Year Zero" Alternative Reality Game seems to be COMING TRUE.....

---------------------------------------------------

https://www.nin.wiki/US_Bureau_of_Morality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhrnChYf23k

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Of course anything they disagree with is by definition criminal, though...

InkBunny is slowly starting to disintegrate, lol... I never thought I would see the day...

I hope e621 isn't the next to start falling apart.

veruke_assault said:
InkBunny is slowly starting to disintegrate, lol... I never thought I would see the day...

What do you mean?

notknow said:
What do you mean?

Probably the Piporete thing, where they broke the rules and decided to adopt a persecution complex instead of realising they were being treated the exact same as anyone else.

votp said:
Probably the Piporete thing, where they broke the rules and decided to adopt a persecution complex instead of realising they were being treated the exact same as anyone else.

LOL, well... they plan on moving over here to E6, exclusively...

((((does e621 have some kinda rule against Furry X Human scenarios in art??? -- Ohhhh, maybe they'll ADD one? lol))))

...........

Pure humans are only allowed as long as they are part of an otherwise furry-centric image. If a page, or an image, of an otherwise furry-centric comic contains only humans, then those pages will also be kept to keep the comic complete.

............

Shouldn't Piporete be fine here then? (unless of course, the rule gets changed in the future).

https://e621.net/wiki_pages/uploading_guidelines

-----------

And as we all know, rules and policies can always change.... (like they did on FA).

https://web.archive.org/web/20150821170440/https://forums.FurAffinity.net/threads/3965-FA-Policy-Notice-Cub-Art

....

https://www.flayrah.com/8924/fur-affinity-expands-rules-against-youthful-appearing-characters-adult-works-pokemon-and

.....

votp said:
Probably the Piporete thing, where they broke the rules and decided to adopt a persecution complex instead of realising they were being treated the exact same as anyone else.

Oh, it's the usual "I'm being victimised because I'm being punished for not reading the rules"

The no humans rule has been there forever (or at least for as long as I've known about Inkbunny well over a decade ago) and if I recall correctly it's because the owner of the site is a UK citizen and he wants to keep it legal there because they're not humans.

I'd be dubious about whether a loophole like that actually works, but Inkbunny is still going strong after all these years.

faucet said:

(stuff)

So... what got Bunny Bits into a boiling pot of Legal Hot Water? The French Legal System don't like Naked Fictional Rabbits or somethin' ??? lol....

Did BB also draw humans too, or was it just fictional cartoon rabbits? Do the Freakie France Fiction Laws also cover furries, or just hyoomiez? lol...

.......

Also, what happened to the Time Honored Tradition of cropping a picture really close for IB and then having the "Full Version" on Pixiv?

Or did Pixiv recently decide to have a "policy change" like F.A. did? (seems like everyone is having a "policy change" these days, lol)

veruke_assault said:
So... what got Bunny Bits into a boiling pot of Legal Hot Water? The French Legal System don't like Naked Fictional Rabbits or somethin' ??? lol....

Did BB also draw humans too, or was it just fictional cartoon rabbits? Do the Freakie France Fiction Laws also cover furries, or just hyoomiez? lol...

.......

Also, what happened to the Time Honored Tradition of cropping a picture really close for IB and then having the "Full Version" on Pixiv?

Or did Pixiv recently decide to have a "policy change" like F.A. did? (seems like everyone is having a "policy change" these days, lol)

France, like the UK, doesn't consider fiction to be fiction/art to be art, and treats anything found to be disagreeable as reality. Except murder, murder's okay.

What happened with Pip was that they were using a mosaic filter to censor the humans which is insufficient, the images were hidden, they were advised how to correct this and make it visible again. As the staff explained, at length and politely/calmly in spite of the wanton idiocy of the people badgering them, this is SOP, they were treated the exact same as every other user, and saying "well I saw X do it!" is not an excuse, and you really should report things if you see them.

votp said:
France, like the UK, doesn't consider fiction to be fiction/art to be art, and treats anything found to be disagreeable as reality. Except murder, murder's okay.

That's dumb.... but it seems like a lot of countries are heading down that direction, huh....

Canada, France, UK, Australia, and most recently Italy... will America be next? Maybe... I hope not, but you never know.

----------------

Anyway, let's all read this lovely article that Mister Boozy Badger (The Lawyer Furry) wrote a while back.... lol

https://web.archive.org/web/20180525162247/http://lawyersandliquor.com/2018/04/fetish-friday-the-legality-of-fictional-minors-in-sexual-conduct/

Hopefully America (and e621) don't cave to the pressure and start banning Cub Artwork... cuz that would suck.

People should be allowed to draw whatever they wanna draw without fear of imprisonment by their crappy stupid government...

veruke_assault said:
Also, what happened to the Time Honored Tradition of cropping a picture really close for IB and then having the "Full Version" on Pixiv?

Or did Pixiv recently decide to have a "policy change" like F.A. did? (seems like everyone is having a "policy change" these days, lol)

well, you could never have the _full_ version on Pixiv, since that site's hosted in Japan you're going to need to censor the genitals.

currently, e6 is the least restrictive furry site in regards to what kind of content is allowed, in that as long as one of the subjects has some kind of non-human anatomy it's fine. there are a few other notable sites that cub artists might see fit to use, Barrag being the most obvious.

sipothac said:
well, you could never have the _full_ version on Pixiv, since that site's hosted in Japan you're going to need to censor the genitals.

Japanese genital censorship: "Throw a few thin hash lines over it and we'll call it good."

veruke_assault said:
Throw a few thin hash lines over it and we'll call it good.

That's usually more than enough to ruin the art for a lot of people.

veruke_assault said:
Japanese genital censorship: "Throw a few thin hash lines over it and we'll call it good."

#_(ed)genitals

While I can't speak for the higher-ups who own e621, there is no plan, as far as I know, to ban cub art.

Personally, I think it's more likely that the increasingly focused-on porn and internet safety laws in the US will have an effect on cub porn in the future.

slyroon said:
Personally, I think it's more likely that the increasingly focused-on porn and internet safety laws in the US will have an effect on cub porn in the future.

Yup.... if they can't bully the websites who host the artwork, and they can't dissuade the artists who draw it through "social shaming & ostracization".... then they'll just bully the payment processors who make it possible for those artists to get paid..... the old "hit 'em in the wallet" trick...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P9yCMNpV-I

............

slyroon said:
While I can't speak for the higher-ups who own e621, there is no plan, as far as I know, to ban cub art.

Personally, I think it's more likely that the increasingly focused-on porn and internet safety laws in the US will have an effect on cub porn in the future.

that feels like it might be an inevitability at some point, unfortunately. people already like to target cub and loli/shota as an easy way to get internet points. while it's not that big of a deal to dunk on peeps who do that when every everyone's behind a internet pseudonym, I'm not sure if advocating for the same position against real legislation would be as appetizing if you had to do it in real life.

sipothac said:
I'm not sure if advocating for the same position against real legislation would be as appetizing if you had to do it in real life.

The "Antis" think that if they succeed in bringing the France / Canada / UK laws over here to the USA, that the laws will only be applied to the kind of artwork they DISLIKE... they think that THEY won't be caught in the crossfire, lol.... just like the "Short Pokemon" people on FurAffinity.... "hey, what are you doing? GET THEM, not ME!" lol.... I hope, I hope, I hope... if such laws ever DO come to the USA, that lots of Antis will be affected as well... and then I can say "Hahaha, but this is what you WANTED, remember? You WANTED more censorship!"

votp said:
Probably the Piporete thing, where they broke the rules and decided to adopt a persecution complex instead of realising they were being treated the exact same as anyone else.

Oh I see, I like when anthros have interactions with humans but yeah these rules were there for years on Inkbunny, still if they gonna still post on e621 it's fine.

Shame I think only Baraag accept both rori, cubs, mixed or solo but it's sucks that the layout is Twitter-like... No tags, pools, etc...Well there is Hi***** but I find that platform a bit... strange.

notknow said:
Oh I see, I like when anthros have interactions with humans but yeah these rules were there for years on Inkbunny, still if they gonna still post on e621 it's fine.

Shame I think only Baraag accept both rori, cubs, mixed or solo but it's sucks that the layout is Twitter-like... No tags, pools, etc...Well there is Hi***** but I find that platform a bit... strange.

there's ExH, but the fact that you have to essentially solve a NotPron riddle to even get past its homepage is a probably enough of a barrier for some, also the fact that the site is often, if not primarily, used for just pirating scanlations of dojins and other payed content is probably a turn-off as well.

veruke_assault said:
Wasn't there a Furry Artist on InkBunny who was from France and their country had very recently put laws on the books that put Fictional Cartoon Drawings on the same legal level as genuine CSEM???? But then they got set up with a REALLY GOOD LAWYER and they avoided jail time???? Personally, I don't see the point in jailing people for drawing young imaginary fictional anthro rabbits screwing each other... it just seems dumb, especially when you consider that there are WORSE / MORE IMPORTANT THINGS to be going after....

The Twitter Goofballs really really really want the USA to adopt the same laws as France & Canada... but... do they not understand how that will put EXTRA BURDEN on the legal system? Also, who is to say that these new laws won't get applied to "good wholesome artists whose characters are toooooootally not cub, just sorta young looking" lol lol lol....

I mean, we all saw what happened to "Short Pokemon" over at FurAffinity...

didnt know about that one. that being said anything legally happening to these artists is pretty rare and never seems to result in jail time or anything of the like. unless something else illegal is happening.

Hewwo, and wewwkum tew "uwu wuwld" ... wheww evviewun tawks wike Shawwit from da "Twials of Mawnuh" Twee-Dee We-Make.

We haff tew find duh Pweest of Wight so I can save Heef!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRv5mC7CYG8

(Iz it Aypwul Fuwwst awweddie? Nooooom it still own-wee Mawwch Tirddy Fuwst! Whut ish goewing awn heewuh?)

Bee-Aww-Bee, I ish goewing to open ZSNES to weed dah funney Apwuw Fuwwst messhidges!

UPDATE: Oh no no no no no! I wed da messidge in Zee-Ess-En-EE-Ess and it sed "We aww noww wepowting yuww gaming agg-tibbi-deez tew Nimtindew's Sentwuw Suwbwuhz, pweeze wait a momunt, pwess space baww tew pwoceed."

YEW GUYZ, PWEEZE HEWUP MEEEEE! Nyim-Ten-Dew ISH GUNNA TAKE AWW MY WOMZ AWAY!!! AND TWOE ME IN JAYWUUW!!!!

(lol 'ʇsƖƐ ɥɔɹɐW ʎluo s,ʇᴉ)

veruke_assault said:
(lol 'ʇsƖƐ ɥɔɹɐW ʎluo s,ʇᴉ)

It's April 1st somewhere.

Well well well today something very close to this just came true, i wonder what will be next Cub art in general maybe?