Topic: [REJECTED] Tag implication: vivian_(mario) -> trans_woman_(lore)

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

This topic has been locked.

The tag implication #64184 vivian_(mario) -> trans_woman_(lore) has been rejected.

Reason: As of the Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door remake, the character Vivian has an unambiguously and unequivocally transgender identity. While she has been widely interpreted to be trans on the basis of the original Japanese dialog since the game originally came out, any references to this were scrubbed in many international localizations, including the original English version. Now, her transgender identity has been restored. Thus, the "vivian_(mario)" tag should imply the "trans_woman_(lore)" tag.
Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/paper-mario-remake-confirms-companion-is-trans-after-references-removed-from-original-translation

EDIT: The tag implication vivian_(mario) -> trans_woman_(lore) (forum #410176) has been rejected by @spe.

Updated by Donovan DMC

We do not imply characters to lore. The lore category is for what the artist of the image intends the character to be, not the canon of the original media.

I also recommend not discussing the intricacies of that characters gender identity, as it has already been done here

any references to this were scrubbed in many international localizations, including the original English version.

Which is why the tag implications are a bad idea. With a couple exceptions, we don't apply lore tags based on canon knowledge; only the artist's canon if it's known. Otherwise, don't add it. Considering the remake solidified that aspect of Vivian's character years later, you'd run the risk of retroactively applying it to posts from artists who see Vivian as a non-transgender woman from the original English version.

And of course, there's always going to be artists who think differently or don't like the change no matter what.

snpthecat said:
We do not imply characters to lore. The lore category is for what the artist of the image intends the character to be, not the canon of the original media.

I also recommend not discussing the intricacies of that characters gender identity, as it has already been done here

With regards to the lore tag being assigned on the basis of the artist, Nintendo as a corporate entity is the original artist of Vivian, so official Nintendo art should definitely feature the trans_woman_(lore) tag
I took a look at that post, but it only briefly alludes to it within spoilers. Is there a longer discussion you wanted to share with me to read?

werideatdawn said:
Which is why the tag implications are a bad idea. With a couple exceptions, we don't apply lore tags based on canon knowledge; only the artist's canon if it's known. Otherwise, don't add it. Considering the remake solidified that aspect of Vivian's character years later, you'd run the risk of retroactively applying it to posts from artists who see Vivian as a non-transgender woman from the original English version.

And of course, there's always going to be artists who think differently or don't like the change no matter what.

Thanks for informing me about that policy. I personally disagree with that ruling, but I will respect it now that I am aware of it.

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