I've been trying to get a proper edit on https://e621.net/post/show/297394/ to provide a proper source, artist, and gender.

All I've been getting is "You can't edit tags in parent posts if you're under a week old" and "you can't edit sources under a week old" trash.

The latter isn't as irritable as the former, which didn't show up while the three day waiting period for editing posts at all was going on. I've been trying to fix the damn tags and source and all I'm getting is "WELL YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YA KNOW POLICIES AND SUCK MY DICK LOLOLOL"

At this point I'm about ready to give a takedown notice, but I can't do that either SEEING AS HOW I DO NOT HAVE A GALLERY. Do you understand my frustration? Why the fuck do you people have so many hoops for me to jump just to edit tags on my damn commission?

Cuddlyzebesian said:
I've been trying to get a proper edit on https://e621.net/post/show/297394/ to provide a proper source, artist, and gender.

All I've been getting is "You can't edit tags in parent posts if you're under a week old" and "you can't edit sources under a week old" trash.

The latter isn't as irritable as the former, which didn't show up while the three day waiting period for editing posts at all was going on. I've been trying to fix the damn tags and source and all I'm getting is "WELL YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YA KNOW POLICIES AND SUCK MY DICK LOLOLOL"

At this point I'm about ready to give a takedown notice, but I can't do that either SEEING AS HOW I DO NOT HAVE A GALLERY. Do you understand my frustration? Why the fuck do you people have so many hoops for me to jump just to edit tags on my damn commission?

The answer is short: Trolls.

You wouldn't believe how many assholes we had to ban and sift through all changes to repair damage from random 4chan trolls or god knows where whose people came from.

If you wish to have tags and source added, I could do that for you if you wish so.
As to the take down request, you only need some sort of proof, if you do not have a gallery, ask either the artist to file it for you or provide some other proof that you, in fact, are the copyright owner to one of the characters.

NotMeNotYou said:
The answer is short: Trolls.

You wouldn't believe how many assholes we had to ban and sift through all changes to repair damage from random 4chan trolls or god knows where whose people came from.

If you wish to have tags and source added, I could do that for you if you wish so.
As to the take down request, you only need some sort of proof, if you do not have a gallery, ask either the artist to file it for you or provide some other proof that you, in fact, are the copyright owner to one of the characters.

Well, first, let me give you the source https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=360032

Secondly, the zebesian's male. Why it is tagged as both male and female makes no sense as the proper tag should be androgynous_gender. Also, the artist is Acorn, and assuming the uploader took it off my tumblr, he should have noticed the source and tagged appropriately.

Changed the tags, with the difference that we don't use androgynous_gender but instead ambiguous_gender in cases like this.

Cuddlyzebesian said:
Well, first, let me give you the source https://inkbunny.net/submissionview.php?id=360032

Secondly, the zebesian's male. Why it is tagged as both male and female makes no sense as the proper tag should be androgynous_gender. Also, the artist is Acorn, and assuming the uploader took it off my tumblr, he should have noticed the source and tagged appropriately.

There, source and artist tags added.

Also, in regards to the female and male tags being added at the same time. Here at E621, we approach tagging with a 'tag what you see' frame of mind, in that we tag things that are visible in the image; this facilitates much easier searching for users, as they get images containing exactly what they search for. The person who tagged that image thought the Zebesian looked female enough to warrant the tag being added, and disembodied penises are considered male here.

If you're going to actively post art and commissions here (and we hope that you do!), here are some links on our tagging system and how it works. I'd suggest reading through all of them before you begin tagging in earnest, especially the last one.

https://e621.net/wiki/show?nordirect=1&title=howto%3Atag
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Atags
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=tag_what_you_see

Personally, I think it would be better served by the ambiguous_gender tag, but I'll let people discuss it before I make a change to it.

I would like to point out that we aren't tagging gender of character, but what is visible in an image.
We aren't trying to tell anyone what their character is/isn't, we're just tagging what you can see in each given image.

Personally I think we should have some sort of tag edit approval system for new accounts. Entirely approved by community members, or something. I've seen a few implementations of this in some places. I'm sure there's plenty of users like Cuddlyzesbian, who want to make perfectly valid edits and the wait time will discourage them just as much as it would discourage a troll.

A community powered tag approval system will solve this, the user can sign up and make an edit like adding an artist tag to an image, an established user will check over this edit and will either approve or deny the tag edit. If an established user accepts a troll's edit, they'll be just as responsible as making their own bad tag edit so there's not really anything that can go wrong. It even gives an extra thing for bored established editors to do.

The problem I see with that plan, Seven Twenty, is that tag vandals' behavior is not limited to adding garbage tags. Vandals sometimes remove tags, too, or will only remove one tag but remove it from every single image they find with it. If other users start to catch this and repair the damage, it quickly becomes non-trivial to reconcile the legitimate users' tag edits against the vandal's. This is the original problem: You can't just automatically revert all of a vandal's edits. It requires human intervention at some level.

I think the decision to institute a 7-day waiting period suggests that the community here is sufficiently large, that it can afford to turn away some new taggers who are only mildly interested in tagging.

In some ways, the complexity of tagging is a little like the complexity of writing a Wiki page. Our lexicon is vastly simpler and more easily parsed, and so we can standardize through aliases and implications. We also have TWYSNWYK, which makes it easier to agree on tags. But, it's not an easy problem to organize without creating opportunities for abuse, or backlogs of work that other users or mods then have to sift through (or, in the case of users, more likely ignore).

If we have the critical mass of good taggers necessary to keep up with general tagging, it's perfectly fine if some people decide they don't want to wait 7 days and choose not to sign in.

I can understand Cuddlyzebesian's frustration at suddenly seeing their commission posted here without proper tagging, sourcing, etc. I would argue that the first problem was when the uploader didn't ask for permission, way back in February. Cz would have been well within their rights to ask for a takedown. I'm glad they didn't, just observing that the frustration here could have been avoided if the uploader had done what they were supposed to in the first place. At least we have good folks like corgi_bread to fix the tags when improper tagging is brought up.

NotMeNotYou said:
The answer is short: Trolls.

Stopped reading there.

You're certainly a bag of sunshine, aren't you.

ikdind said:
The problem I see with that plan, Seven Twenty, is that tag vandals' behavior is not limited to adding garbage tags. Vandals sometimes remove tags, too, or will only remove one tag but remove it from every single image they find with it. If other users start to catch this and repair the damage, it quickly becomes non-trivial to reconcile the legitimate users' tag edits against the vandal's. This is the original problem: You can't just automatically revert all of a vandal's edits. It requires human intervention at some level.

I think the decision to institute a 7-day waiting period suggests that the community here is sufficiently large, that it can afford to turn away some new taggers who are only mildly interested in tagging.

In some ways, the complexity of tagging is a little like the complexity of writing a Wiki page. Our lexicon is vastly simpler and more easily parsed, and so we can standardize through aliases and implications. We also have TWYSNWYK, which makes it easier to agree on tags. But, it's not an easy problem to organize without creating opportunities for abuse, or backlogs of work that other users or mods then have to sift through (or, in the case of users, more likely ignore).

If we have the critical mass of good taggers necessary to keep up with general tagging, it's perfectly fine if some people decide they don't want to wait 7 days and choose not to sign in.

I can understand Cuddlyzebesian's frustration at suddenly seeing their commission posted here without proper tagging, sourcing, etc. I would argue that the first problem was when the uploader didn't ask for permission, way back in February. Cz would have been well within their rights to ask for a takedown. I'm glad they didn't, just observing that the frustration here could have been avoided if the uploader had done what they were supposed to in the first place. At least we have good folks like corgi_bread to fix the tags when improper tagging is brought up.

I'll be honest, I didn't read your whole comment, but I agree, I think the 7 day waiting period is just fine. It took 7 days of being on this site just to figure out how the tags worked in the first place anyways Lol And you're right, the last thing we need is some troll making a new account just to fuck around with the tags and piss everyone off. We only want people who actually care about the art, or at least are here to fap and not to screw over the community. Am I right on that?

It's gonna be 3 days after the next update

Aurali said:
It's gonna be 3 days after the next update

So, incoming increase in bad tagging then -.-

Halite said:
So, incoming increase in bad tagging then -.-

I'm ready for it

Aurali said:
It's gonna be 3 days after the next update

Oh hai it's been a while

Aurali said:
It's gonna be 3 days after the next update

Please no, it will just ruin the site from the flood of new troll accounts -.-

Cuddlyzebesian said:
Oh hai it's been a while

... *looks up name*

...

Hi .-.

Conker said:
Please no, it wlll just ruin the site's tagging from the flood of new troll accounts -.-

You guys are just being paranoid, the only reason it was set to seven was to protect the not protected source. which is now protected. You have nothing to worry about

Tag edits are already three days. We're only changing source/rating/parent edits from 7 days to 3 to match, now that we can revert and track source changes.

Aurali said:
You guys are just being paranoid, the only reason it was set to seven was to protect the not protected source. which is now protected. You have nothing to worry about

Tell me this when the porn trolls return, ive cleaned up my fair share of idiots putting porn virus sites as the fake source -.-

Aurali said:
... *looks up name*

...

Hi .-.

You guys are just being paranoid, the only reason it was set to seven was to protect the not protected source. which is now protected. You have nothing to worry about

You'd probably know me better as Krisol or something.

No matter don't worry about it, and if you do remember, please don't shout it out loud ;w;

Cuddlyzebesian said:
You'd probably know me better as Krisol or something.

No matter don't worry about it, and if you do remember, please don't shout it out loud ;w;

I know who you are :p

Conker said:
Tell me this when the porn trolls return, ive cleaned up my fair share of idiots putting porn virus sites as the fake source -.-

the next update already has a ton of new antibot stuff.. and new email stuff.. and new user stuff.. and.. well.. >.>

Aurali said:
I know who you are :p

the next update already has a ton of new antibot stuff.. and new email stuff.. and new user stuff.. and.. well.. >.>

new stuff?

NotMeNotYou said:
new stuff?

The good stuff

Aurali said:
I know who you are :p

Indeed, though now I just hang on F-List as someone you'll have to find out :D