Psychotic break or no, it's the same character. We have already deliberated over allowing memetic forms of characters previously, and they were to be nixed along with all the other fandom-specific meme names like Scootabuse and Molestia and such by aliasing to the character to whom they belong (or the appropriate alt tag for the function, such as abuse for the aforementioned scootabuse). Over on 20PC? Perfectly fine. Here? Should not exist.

Here we go again...

Oh and btw:
https://e621.net/forum/show/71463

Yeah, please don't bring this back up again.
I'm not a big fan of the tag personally, but when decision has been made, we should just leave it be.

lol

Ya, the FEW times I want to search for her, I would appreciate taking out the crazy fan version of her :P

Yeah, unfortunately there was a topic about this already. What is funny is that I couldn't even get the answer how this tag is supposed to be used. As much as I don't like, for example, eeveelution tag it has clear meaning. This tag is just a useless tag that is kept to satisfy bronies. We could, at least, change its wiki to reflect that.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Yeah, unfortunately there was a topic about this already. What is funny is that I couldn't even get the answer how this tag is supposed to be used. As much as I don't like, for example, eeveelution tag it has clear meaning. This tag is just a useless tag that is kept to satisfy bronies. We could, at least, change its wiki to reflect that.

There is a semi-clear way to use it- the psychotic/dark variant of Pinkie Pie, which the wiki does indicate.

This said, keep that on 20PC. That result by RD goes completely contrary to the decision that saw the end of scootabuse and Molestia and similar tags. One tag shouldn't get special treatment separate from the rest just because it's a personal favourite. I repeat, keep that sort of fandom tagging to the fandom, NOT here.

To me this is the difference between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Are they the same human being? Yes. Are they the same character? No. Dr. Jekyll is never both the Jekyll and Hyde characters simultaneously, he is always either one or the other, so there is a distinction there.

Of course, on e621, if there's no visible difference between the two characters, then this is a moot point. But in the case of Pinkamena, there IS a physical difference between the characters, namely that Pinkamena's hair is completely flat and straight when compared to PinkiePie's normal hair.

The way I see it, Pinkamena should simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp). This allows all Pinkamena posts to be tagged with Pinkie_Pie_(mlp) as they should be, while also allowing a level of distinction between Pinkie_Pie and her alternate physical form, Pinkamena.

Of course, I apply this same argument to Princess_Molestia too (allow it to be tagged, just make Princess_Molestia imply Princess_Celestia). I don't think that tag ever should have been aliased away; it has a very clear use and, once again, the characters aren't even identical in appearance.

Personally I don't see any problems that would be caused by having Pinkamena simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp).

Char said:
To me this is the difference between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Are they the same human being? Yes. Are they the same character? No. Dr. Jekyll is never both the Jekyll and Hyde characters simultaneously, he is always either one or the other, so there is a distinction there.

Of course, on e621, if there's no visible difference between the two characters, then this is a moot point. But in the case of Pinkamena, there IS a physical difference between the characters, namely that Pinkamena's hair is completely flat and straight when compared to PinkiePie's normal hair.

The way I see it, Pinkamena should simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp). This allows all Pinkamena posts to be tagged with Pinkie_Pie_(mlp) as they should be, while also allowing a level of distinction between Pinkie_Pie and her alternate physical form, Pinkamena.

Of course, I apply this same argument to Princess_Molestia too (allow it to be tagged, just make Princess_Molestia imply Princess_Celestia). I don't think that tag ever should have been aliased away; it has a very clear use and, once again, the characters aren't even identical in appearance.

Personally I don't see any problems that would be caused by having Pinkamena simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp).

^
This, so much this.

Char said:
To me this is the difference between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Are they the same human being? Yes. Are they the same character? No. Dr. Jekyll is never both the Jekyll and Hyde characters simultaneously, he is always either one or the other, so there is a distinction there.

Of course, on e621, if there's no visible difference between the two characters, then this is a moot point.

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde is great example why pinkamena tag is bullshit. Let's look at first picture that come in google after searching for dr Jekyll. First thing one might notice is that both characters are looking significantly different. The fact that those two characters are the same is a mystery to everyone in the story. Mr Hyde also has distinct personality. Evil and completely different from Jekyll's. It's not dr Jekyll with not straight hair, or bigger penis.

Meanwhile the whole pinkamena is just one episode meme, that looks almost exactly like Pinkie Pie. Nobody refers to her during that episode in the show by different name. It's clear to everyone that this is Pinkie Pie. There is no different character in the show.

If fandom wants to tag its memes, then they may go to 20pc.org. I really don't want this to be a precedence for other fandoms or original characters. When I discover interesting looking character from franchise that is new to me I want to have one character tag on solo picture to know his/her name - not one true name, 56 names about his/her mood, 75 names about his/her clothing, etc, and guess which one is correct.

IMO all mlp tags like eris_(mlp), or princess_molestia_(mlp), or pinkamena_(mlp), or futashy_(mlp) are abominations and should be killed with fire. All other tags are dead, I don't see reason why this should be alive.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde is great example why pinkamena tag is bullshit. Let's look at first picture that come in google after searching for dr Jekklyl. First thing one might notice is that both characters are looking significantly different. The fact that those two characters are the same is a mystery to everyone in the story. Mr Hyde also has distinct personality. Evil and completely different from Jekkyl's. It's not dr Jekkyl with not straight hair, or bigger penis.

Funny, you say they need to be different in appearence and personality? K I think Char already said it but I'll explain it again (mostly defending the Pinkamena tag): first Pinkamena, slightly darker fur & mane (canon), straight hair, has more of an emotional personality mostly seen as sad and borderline insane (you can check all of these in the episode), all of those qualities that are obviously different from Pinkie, you say it's still Pinkie pie? well then, as Char said, it simply implies Pinkie Pie to allow pics of Pinkamena to remain the character tag, while allowing distinction between both forms of Pinkie... as for Molestia, hair color is different, being a solid greyish pink color instead of multi-colored, with a personality that is way different from Celestia, being more of a troll that simply enjoys annoying others... Just because you think they're bullshit, it doesn't mean they actually are. Not sure if Molestia should stay as I don't remember seeing the personality in the show in that way it's being pictured, but Pinkamena IS a good valid tag.

K I think Char already said it but I'll explain it again (mostly defending the Pinkamena tag): first Pinkamena, slightly darker fur & mane (canon), straight hair, has more of an emotional personality mostly seen as sad and borderline insane

Char didn't said anything about personality of character, and I think that his definition (pinkamena_(mlp) = pinkie_pie straight_hair) is much more closer to reality than yours. Let's take a look at search results for pinkamena_(mlp). I dare to say that over half of the pictures don't have at least one of three other things (color, sadness, insanity) than straight hair.
Over half of the pictures are like that:
post #398636
there is nothing psychotic , and even particularly sad, about this character.
So I consider myth that pinkamena is used to tagged a distinct personality debunked.

And besides everything you completely missed my point. This is still Pinkie Pie. Making your colors less brighter doesn't magically transform you into another character. Moreover in canon there are absolutely no signs that this is different character. In show she is still considered Pinkie Pie, only in bad mood, not another character. There is NO pinkamena in the show. You can't just take someone in bad mood, and say "look guys, let's call her Susan now!". Really, difference between Mr Hyde case and this is so obvious that I even don't know how to explain it even more.

Well said, Gilda. I agree with everything you've said (though I do wish you'd tone down your vehemence a little. ._. No need to use invective when not necessary).

I think, to make a more important point, this tag breaks Tag What You See. When you look at images of Pinkie Pie and images of her during her psychotic break which the fandom refers to as Pinkamena, TWYS sees a darker, straight-haired Pinkie Pie (especially with every other primary characteristic identifies the character as Pinkie Pie). If it was an actual split personality and not simply the same character going off the deep end canonically, I wouldn't support this point and would actually argue against myself and Gilda in this case. As that isn't the case, I will continue to argue for this, as it violates tagging rules as it stands, and it should not be an exception to the rule, either. Once again, if 20PC wants to be that specific about the individual tags specific to their fandom, by all means. But not here.

@Gilda Artists are free to picture Pinkamena in the way they want, that does not take away the fact that it's still another personality that they're drawing, if someone wants they can draw a Mr Hyde happy (and even change his appearence to the likes of them)

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
...I even don't know how to explain it even more.

Right back at ya.

Butterscotch said:
@Gilda Artists are free to picture Pinkamena in the way they want, that does not take away the fact that it's still another personality that they're drawing, if someone wants they can draw a Mr Hyde happy (and even change his appearence to the likes of them)

Right back at ya.

To use your own example against you, a happy Mr. Hyde is *still Mr. Hyde*. Just because he's not playing to typical character *does not mean he is no longer who he is*. And, once again, Mr. Hyde *is* separate from Dr. Jekyll, and as such should be (and is AFAIR) tagged separately; Pinkamena is a fan nickname (or more correctly, usage of her full first name) for a specific *mental state* of the character- which completely breaks TWYS, and for which we just recently got rid of the transgender tag because of its mental condition, which is something you can't tag by sight.

123easy said:
Well said, Gilda. I agree with everything you've said (though I do wish you'd tone down your vehemence a little. ._. No need to use invective when not necessary).

Where did I insult anyone? I didn't want to insult anyone by this post and I don't think that there was any invective there. Am I wrong?

Anyway I think that neither I'm going to convince Butterscotch nor he is going convince me, so I don't see point in posting more unless some adds more to this.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Where did I insult anyone? I didn't want to insult anyone by this post and I don't think that there was any invective there. Am I wrong?

Anyway I think that neither I'm going to convince Butterscotch nor he is going convince me, so I don't see point in posting more unless some adds more to this.

Well, I did add about the TWYS and how this tag countermands that rule, above; As for vehemence and invective, it was not directly specifically at people but just in general, throughout your posts. makes for a more hostile conversation even if no hostility was intended, I find.

Consider these:

GIS for Pinkamena
GIS for Pinkie Pie

If we can not reproduce these search results on e621.net, then we are not delivering the search results that people expect. The very fact that Google has organized them that way is only proof that the internet has made a distinction between Pinkamena and Pinkie Pie. :|

The fact that there's even a Pinkamena tag on e621 attached to 1,147 posts is a pretty clear indicator that the site sees a difference between Pinkie_Pie and Pinkamena, especially when it seems to be tagged quite reliably from what I see.

If you didn't like the Jekyll and Hyde example, how about Clark Kent and Superman? They're the same person, but are seen as two different characters. Same with Bruce Wayne and Batman. Or perhaps you don't want to count those since their dual identities are part of their canon, in which case I'm sure there are plenty of examples of the internet assigning new identities to familiar faces, but I digress.

The fact is, right now users can search for Pinkamena on e621 and get the results they expect, because they're along the same results that they'll get on DA, FA, IB, literally just about ANYWHERE else on the internet. E621 defining Pinkamena as equivalent to Pinkie Pie would make this site an exception to what the MLP community itself thinks regarding Pinkamena.

Again, I'm really not understanding the POINT of trying to combine Pinkamena and Pinkie Pie. I simply do not understand what is to be gained from it. If we alias Pinkamena to Pinkie_Pie, then the only effect this has is people who were searching and tagging Pinkamena before can now no longer do so. The tag "pinkie_pie" is not improved whatsoever from this; it will not suddenly have a lot of new images, because the tag "pinkamena_(mlp)" currently implicates "pinkie_pie_(mlp)". It will not make searching simpler, because the only people who were searching for Pinkamena before were the ones wanting to find exactly what the Pinkamena tag currently displays for its search results, meaning that this ISN'T the usual case of one character simply having two different names and screwing up search results (like how pokemon have both English and Japanese names).

The fact remains that searching for pinkamena on e621 right now works exactly like how it does on pretty much the rest of the internet. I don't personally consider "they're the same character" to be a good enough reason to tell the rest of our users "Sorry, we decided we'd rather be cold-hard-facts-correct than allow you to continue to easily find a certain representation of a character that the rest of the internet seems to have no problem identifying". We've already done this with Molestia and I still think that was a mistake that needs to be undone, since it needlessly cripples the tagging system just like aliasing Pinkamena would.

I'm sorry, but I still remain unconvinced that 1) this is currently a legitimate problem, and/or 2) the site would be better off with this change. =/

I'm sorry, did you just say that TWYS is totally flexible just because the fandom wants it like that?

And that tags never get changed against the general will of the people that want the tag a certain way?

*takes a breath, deletes the breast size rant even though we've been waiting for a really long time to get that ass-backwards implication pyramid fixed, continues*

Attribute Pinkie_Pie_(mlp) to each of these, of course. Don't need to note it on each of them. Same for pink_hair in general.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/201/f/8/mlp___fim__angry_pinkamena_by_sileresp-d413vjf.png angry straight_hair eyes_half_shut alpha_background

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/099/9/4/pinkamena_diane_pie___pink_madness_by_salenor-d4viwtf.png pointy_teeth (or sharp_teeth) clenched_teeth straight_hair stare (creepy_stare or dramatic_stare perhaps) alpha_background

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/070/5/4/pinkamena_diane_pie_wallpaper_by_thealex132-d4sg0x9.jpg creepy_stare slasher_smile (evil_smile tag instead, or new smile variant) nightmare_fuel straight_hair creepypasta english_text black_background blood blood_spray (blood_stain?) derp_eyes (or cross_eyes)

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/109/b/0/pinkamena_sketch_by_mossycupkake-d4wvhxm.png creepypasta straight_hair nightmare_fuel body_horror eyeless white_background black_tears

I could continue, but I won't, because these few are evidence that it is quite easy to tag them appropriately without using a false character tag that breaks TWYS. Once again, Fandom can go over to 20PC or wherever else that doesn't use or care about TWYS or that uses more definitive inner-fandom tagging that is also separate from TWYS.

If I recall right, we amended TWYS to be flexible with tagging character names, and given that pinkamena is often associated with grim, bloodbaths, I think we really need to have a distinction between these two renditions of the character

Yes it's the same character, but it's really not at all the same rendition and since it's all fiction anyway, it might as well me two separate characters as far as we're concerned

Really it's not a matter of being technically correct, it's a matter of having a useful search result for users that want to/don't want to see one

Dat anger over keeping creepy out of good searches though.

Char/RD have it right, first and foremost this change would do nothing but make some anal people feel better lol. It doesn't help the tagging system at all.

TWYS still would apply, because people see the Pinkamena and she is polarizing enough to warrant being added so she can be removed from searches for normal pinkie

Rainbow_Dash said:
If I recall right, we amended TWYS to be flexible with tagging character names, ...

Look, I don't have a dog(pony?) in this fight either way, frankly I couldn't care less if the tag stays, or goes.
That being said, the amendment to TWYS regarding character tagging doesn't apply in this situation, at all.
The closest it gets to this is if someone claims Pinkamena in the source page, but we aren't sure what the correct tag is.
It has nothing to do with whether or not Pinkamena is itself a valid tag.

I dunno about that.
I've watched the show, but didn't enjoy it much and can't even remember that particular episode. If I tried tagging those images purely by the wiki entry and TWYS... well, I wouldn't know how to tag them correctly.

Many of the images currently tagged as Pinkamena lack the insane grin and muscle spasms that are described in the wiki. Are those mistagged? I have no idea.

I feel that it's a tag that can only be properly tagged by the members of that particular fandom. And therefore it goes against TWYS.

Consider these:

GIS for Pinkamena
GIS for Pinkie Pie

If we can not reproduce these search results on e621.net, then we are not delivering the search results that people expect. The very fact that Google has organized them that way is only proof that the internet has made a distinction between Pinkamena and Pinkie Pie. :|

Consider searches for shota, and loli with google, or other image archive sites. Why loli, and shota are aliased then? Think about people who search for transgender with the google - we're also not delivering results for them. Think about people searching for unwilling_prey... wait it's dragonrump - no, don't think about him D:.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that far more people coming to e621 are more interested in loli or shota than searching for Pinkamena. Why don't you think about offending their feelings?

The fact that there's even a Pinkamena tag on e621 attached to 1,147 posts is a pretty clear indicator that the site sees a difference between Pinkie_Pie and Pinkamena, especially when it seems to be tagged quite reliably from what I see.

LOL. "Quite reliably" :D. As I said - over half of the posts doesn't match tag definition. How is this "reliably"? It's like if over half of pictures tagged straight were either lesbian or gay.

I don't personally consider "they're the same character" to be a good enough reason to tell the rest of our users

You don't consider "they're the same character" as a reason for alias. Wow. No seriously. You don't consider that 2 things are the same as a reason for alias. If that's not reason for alias then I don't know what is.

We've already done this with Molestia and I still think that was a mistake that needs to be undone, since it needlessly cripples the tagging system just like aliasing Pinkamena would.

No. Just... please no! D: Give bronies a finger they will take a whole hand.

Rainbow_Dash said:
If I recall right, we amended TWYS to be flexible with tagging character names,

As noted above, that has nothing to do with this. That is strictly for cases where we do not have prior knowledge of a character's name and cannot infer it from the image itself, so we can take it from the original source image's page if it is specifically displayed so that we don't have an untagged character name for an image. It has nothing to do with allowing a single character multiple name tag entries because of a fandom nickname for a mental state that breaks TWYS.

Really it's not a matter of being technically correct, it's a matter of having a useful search result for users that want to/don't want to see one

As has been said by many others before me whenever similar lines have been said- That's what blacklists are for. If you don't want to see creepypasta, blacklist it. If you don't want to see the dark and disturbing stuff, blacklist it. If you do sometimes, but not now, negative search it like everyone else has to do. Further, saying "Well, users want to search for it" when so many other tags have been removed even if useful simply because they breach TWYS or subjectivity is itself a subjective mindset that I can't help but see you pushing for because of your ties to the fandom yourself. This is also why, time and again, I'll continue to state if you want the specific tags like this, just go use it over on 20PC where having all the minutae in tag form is fine because it's a specialized site dedicated to the fandom specifically; If it wasn't there (and I was a part of the community there) I would lobby for it to be applied (And even there it needs some tag cleanup; quite a few images don't even sport the standard form expectations aside from the straight hair; quite a few show her downright happy in fact, even with the hair straightened).

Char said:
(...) Superman (...) Batman

One more thing. About Superman, and Batman. They are even worse examples, because when we're tagging superman we're not really tagging character. We're tagging costume. It's more clear when you think about Robin. We don't give a damn whether it's Dick Grayson, or Jason Todd. It's not TWYS. We're tagging costume - Robin's costume. Superman and Batman equivalent in mlp is Mare Do Well. It doesn't apply to Pinkamena at all.

I'm in agreement with Char and RD.

If we have an implication (and fix Princess Molestia as well), it should accomplish everything we need it to accomplish.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
(and fix Princess Molestia as well)

D:

...

So we just allowed thousands of stupid mlp fandom tag like kinkie_pie, eris or futashy to exist? Can't we make a compromise? Hide this thread, leave only pinkamena as an "exception", and forgot that this whole discussion has ever existed, and go back to status quo?

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
I'm in agreement with Char and RD.

If we have an implication (and fix Princess Molestia as well), it should accomplish everything we need it to accomplish.

I'm disappointed in you.

123easy said:
I'm disappointed in you.

Passive aggressive way of saying not what you had hoped?

post #369604

I'm sad because last post of EDF means that all bad mlp tags that successfully suggested to remove (like blank_flank, everypony_(mlp), foalcon, mane_six, queen_twilight, zombie_pony), and other that were even more stupid (like human_ponidox) are going back. :( If we're pleasing people who google pinkamena then we're going to please people who google blank flank.

However the more I think about it, the more I should suspect this turn of events. Char isn't right neither Dr Jekyll, nor Superman are similar to Pinkamena. Leoian is.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I'm sad because last post of EDF means that all bad mlp tags that successfully suggested to remove (like blank_flank, everypony_(mlp), foalcon, mane_six, queen_twilight, zombie_pony), and other that were even more stupid (like human_ponidox) are going back. :( If we're pleasing people who google pinkamena then we're going to please people who google blank flank.

However the more I think about it, the more I should suspect this turn of events. Char isn't right neither Dr Jekyll, nor Superman are similar to Pinkamena. Leoian is.

https://e621.net/forum/show/89548

Thinking of the entire mindset of transgender...it was decided we dont tag mindsets....but this seems like a mindset of a split perosnalty while its still the same character. So....why are we tagging it again ?

EDFDarkAngel1 said:

If we have an implication (and fix Princess Molestia as well), it should accomplish everything we need it to accomplish.

This is a bad idea...The whole princess molestia is just the char doing kinky shit, it does not need its own char name. If you are bringing that back then there will be a lot of fake crappy name tags with them. It was removed for a reason...

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
https://e621.net/forum/show/89548

What happened to discussion is a good thing (as you said before)? Just because the user is a janitor does that mean they cant bring up a valid point?

Why are you quoting ippiki on an entirely different matter anyway?

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
https://e621.net/forum/show/89548

I'm not sarcastic, nor snarky now. And I don't suggest anything about moderation team. I really don't think that expressing my disappointment over suggested changes, and stating reason why is "not something we expect from someone with janitor status". I'm not going to say that I agree with something I think is wrong just because I'm Janitor. And I think that bringing back Princess Molestia tag is just plain wrong.

In the best circumstances it's going to end up like revival of earth_pony tag, which has less than 30 pics tagged. I dare to say that most of them are tagged, because people are copy-pasting tags from 20pc.
In worst case there going to be more, and more useless tags, which will cause trouble for people who try to edit other tags in this mess, especially when they don't have tag scripts, and they need to deal with edit textbox.

CamKitty said:
Passive aggressive way of saying not what you had hoped?

No, a simple statement of disappointment that the one that's supposed to be the head rules admin who has been maintaining the CoC and other rules is specifically stating that he thinks that the rules don't matter in this case, because fandom.

Conker said:
What happened to discussion is a good thing (as you said before)? Just because the user is a janitor does that mean they cant bring up a valid point?

Why are you quoting ippiki on an entirely different matter anyway?

Discussion = good. Attitude = bad. While I myself have been quite vociferous on this, I have attempted to maintain a modicum of politeness in respect to how I respond to other users, and while I agree with Gilda's fears, 'However the more I think about it, the more I should suspect this turn of events. Char isn't right neither Dr Jekyll, nor Superman are similar to Pinkamena. Leoian is.' was an unnecessarily rude shot.

We should probably bring back futashy then too.
Since as a character it has a penis, and a green collar, and a completely different personality, and can't talk which all makes for a much bigger difference than pinky vs. pinkamena.

I don't like to participate in pony drama, but a couple things grabbed my attention. There is nothing to "fix" with the molestia alias. Molestia is nothing more than celestia with a rapeface. There's not so much as a pretense of it being a different caharacter. It's just a fan-name and serves no purpose to facilitate searches, and is a gateway to further character name abuse. Unlike pinkamena, which I support, because how else are people going to filter crazy pinkie submissions. She looks notably different than pinkie and, as I mentioned earlier, serves a functional tagging purpose.

Unrelated, we're snipping at each other too much. We're spending too much time focusing on each others' tones rather than devoting our attention to progressing the discussion and it's distracting. Discussions can get heated. Let's try to stay on track.

ippiki_ookami said:
Unlike pinkamena, which I support, because how else are people going to filter crazy pinkie submissions.

1. Currently pinkamena_(mlp) tag is not filtering crazy pinkie submissions. Currently it's filtering only pinkie_pie straight_hair. I mentioned it here. The only response that I got for that was "Artists are free to picture Pinkamena in the way they want". To sum up - Pinkamena is character that is crazy unless artist decided that she's not. That's what I get from this discussion.

2. I also asked here why we're making more confortable search only for bronies? There are people who would like to have filtered loli, and shota tags. I think that their number isn't much lower than mlp fans. What about people who complain about lack of <gender>_<species> tags? IMO both of these potential changes makes more sense than pleasing fandom. Especially since show is still running, and suddenly this whole pinkamena meme can lose all sense. Remember when scootabuse was a thing for bronies? Well, now it isn't. The same thing can always happen to pinkamena. I didn't get any answer about why we're treating pony fandom more special way.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
1. Currently pinkamena_(mlp) tag is not filtering crazy pinkie submissions. Currently it's filtering only pinkie_pie straight_hair. I mentioned it here. The only response that I got for that was "Artists are free to picture Pinkamena in the way they want". To sum up - Pinkamena is character that is crazy unless artist decided that she's not. That's what I get from this discussion.

2. I also asked here why we're making more confortable search only for bronies? There are people who would like to have filtered loli, and shota tags. I think that their number isn't much lower than mlp fans. What about people who complain about lack of <gender>_<species> tags? IMO both of these potential changes makes more sense than pleasing fandom. Especially since show is still running, and suddenly this whole pinkamena meme can lose all sense. Remember when scootabuse was a thing for bronies? Well, now it isn't. The same thing can always happen to pinkamena. I didn't get any answer about why we're treating pony fandom more special way.

Because ponies.

Char said:
To me this is the difference between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Are they the same human being? Yes. Are they the same character? No. Dr. Jekyll is never both the Jekyll and Hyde characters simultaneously, he is always either one or the other, so there is a distinction there.

Of course, on e621, if there's no visible difference between the two characters, then this is a moot point. But in the case of Pinkamena, there IS a physical difference between the characters, namely that Pinkamena's hair is completely flat and straight when compared to PinkiePie's normal hair.

The way I see it, Pinkamena should simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp). This allows all Pinkamena posts to be tagged with Pinkie_Pie_(mlp) as they should be, while also allowing a level of distinction between Pinkie_Pie and her alternate physical form, Pinkamena.

Of course, I apply this same argument to Princess_Molestia too (allow it to be tagged, just make Princess_Molestia imply Princess_Celestia). I don't think that tag ever should have been aliased away; it has a very clear use and, once again, the characters aren't even identical in appearance.

Personally I don't see any problems that would be caused by having Pinkamena simply imply Pinkie_Pie_(mlp).

But... isn't Pinkie Pie just Pinkamena Diane Pie's nickname?

If this were a presidential porn site, it would be like tagging "George W Bush" and "Dubya" as different people.

SirAntagonist said:
But... isn't Pinkie Pie just Pinkamena Diane Pie's nickname?

If this were a presidential porn site, it would be like tagging "George W Bush" and "Dubya" as different people.

Calling her "Pinkamena" instead of her common name "Pinkie" hass been appropriated within the fandom (and ONLY the fandom, it is not canon) to represent the psychotic break state of Pinkie Pie that was shown in that one episode where they are getting a surprise party together for her birthday and in doing so their suspicious actions and lies cause her to freak out and spurn them in favour for a bunch of inanimate objects. Her palette darkens slightly and her hair un-poofs and falls straight, much as it did when she was younger before she figured out her cutie mark and her role in life (which seems to be that of throwing parties?). This is all information that has rubbed off on me from my brony roommate, so it should be general knowledge for anyone who knows anything about the fandom.

123easy said:
Calling her "Pinkamena" instead of her common name "Pinkie" hass been appropriated within the fandom (and ONLY the fandom, it is not canon)

The fuck is this, then.

Ponies IN THE SHOW. Calling Pinkie BY HER NAME. Just because fans took the model of Pinkie with straight hair and made dark fan drawings of her doesn't make her a completely different pony. There's not a tag for discorded_fluttershy or discorded_rarity and they both have darker palates and different personalities than their normal selves.

Why is Pinkie special?

123easy said:
Calling her "Pinkamena" instead of her common name "Pinkie" hass been appropriated within the fandom (and ONLY the fandom, it is not canon) to represent the psychotic break state

Again, last I checked we dont tag mind sets....so this shouldnt even be a tag to start with. Its not a different char its one in the same..

Kinda funny....I always thought mania was an actual character on the show. Not a fan based. Same as fluffle puff, though I know now about fwuffle

Esme_Belles said:
Kinda funny....I always thought mania was an actual character on the show. Not a fan based. Same as fluffle puff, though I know now about fwuffle

Hasbro wishes it owned Fluffle Puff.

New tag, alternate_personality character_variant or some such to be used for EVERY instance of this, so you can just add that tag to a search for any specific character and you'll get the variant. Not to say every single picture will have the one you look for ( like getting molestia and regular pinkie) but holy shit its better than all this arguing.

Sollux said:
New tag, alternate_personality character_variant or some such to be used for EVERY instance of this, so you can just add that tag to a search for any specific character and you'll get the variant. Not to say every single picture will have the one you look for ( like getting molestia and regular pinkie) but holy shit its better than all this arguing.

Bad tagging is never better than a discussion of tags.

Conker said:
Bad tagging is never better than a discussion of tags.

how is character_variant bad tagging, I feel like it could be multipurpose for other characters like futashy, or ones with changes from their canonical form without being different characters, and it would stop at least some of the useless arguing over previously resolved topics.

Sollux said:
how is character_variant bad tagging, I feel like it could be multipurpose for other characters like futashy, or ones with changes from their canonical form without being different characters, and it would stop at least some of the useless arguing over previously resolved topics.

Main problem is with "personality" part of suggested tag. Tags like Pinkamena are not tagged because there is personality/mood visible but because of straight hair only.

If you change it to include physical traits then it may lead to pictures of Rainbow Dash (or other pegasi) being tagged with that when wings are not visible. Which would probably result in this tag being useless.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Main problem is with "personality" part of suggested tag. Tags like Pinkamena are not tagged because there is personality/mood visible but because of straight hair only.

If you change it to include physical traits then it may lead to pictures of Rainbow Dash (or other pegasi) being tagged with that when wings are not visible. Which would probably result in this tag being useless.

the thing is, is the tag can be used outside of the brony fandom, for any character who's been changed from what the source material has, and would be used to fine tune to either take out all of those edited characters or only get them. I feel it would resolve these tagging arguments too because (pinkie_pie + character_variant) would return all those pinkamenas, whereas lets say (character/series_here - character_variant) would make sure all characters you get are only what the source material ever intended to be.

SirAntagonist said:
The fuck is this, then.

Ponies IN THE SHOW. Calling Pinkie BY HER NAME. Just because fans took the model of Pinkie with straight hair and made dark fan drawings of her doesn't make her a completely different pony. There's not a tag for discorded_fluttershy or discorded_rarity and they both have darker palates and different personalities than their normal selves.

Why is Pinkie special?

Why is she special? Admins who are bronies, as far as I know. Hell, we just finished getting rid of Transgender because it reflects a mental state that is quite a bit more predominant in the furry community, so I REALLY don't see why they're so adamant to keep this tag and revert previous removals of these tags that break TWYS, aka the golden tagging rule.

Additionally, there USED to be tags for the other ponies and their variants; Celestia had Molestia and Trollestia, for example (both fandom creations as well).

Conker said:
Again, last I checked we dont tag mind sets....so this shouldnt even be a tag to start with. Its not a different char its one in the same..

Erm, you do realize I'm arguing for the tag's removal, right? I was just explaining where the origin of the usage of 'Pinkamena' to describe that mental state comes from, in the fandom, for SirAntagonist.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Main problem is with "personality" part of suggested tag. Tags like Pinkamena are not tagged because there is personality/mood visible but because of straight hair only.

If you change it to include physical traits then it may lead to pictures of Rainbow Dash (or other pegasi) being tagged with that when wings are not visible. Which would probably result in this tag being useless.

It's an interesting suggestion, though; If this wasn't a character tag (perhaps even a tertiary catagory (species, character, artist being catagories I'm referring to) for fandom-specific tags?) but character_variant_(Original_Character) (this shows the original character, so if you see a variant but don't know the actual character, voila) or fandom_variant_(Fandom_Nickname) (Shows the name of the variant, and would have to imply the original character; would enable ANY fandom with special names for a specific form to note it without breaking TWYS, *so long as the fandom variant is specifically defined so tag isn't useless*, even across multiple variants) or something similar.

I still don't support that, since it is still breaking TWYS and so few would actually use it right (I mean, as has been noted multiple times already in this thread, the Pinkamena tag itself contains less than half the images appropriate to the fandom variant, and even the google search Char posted earlier has many non-appropriate images under the Pinkamena search, showing even their catagorization of it shows a lack of solidity behind the character type)... but it'd be better than this current standoff where we aren't coming to any sort of agreement because some admins are saying screw the rule, fandom wins. :|

People are getting snippy again . . .

CamKitty said:
People are getting snippy again . . .

They stopped?

I feel like this thread is going to get locked.

Conker said:
Again, last I checked we dont tag mind sets....so this shouldnt even be a tag to start with. Its not a different char its one in the same..

We are not tagging a mindset, we are tagging a very drastically, consistently different rendition of a character.

This argument is really going in circles here. It abides by our TWYS, there is no special circumstance here, the admins are not biased bronies who just want the tags different and there is no higher agenda. It simply comes down to having these very different depictions of a fictional character remaining separate for the sake of blacklisting/searching

-edit: Also my bad on mentioning the TWYS change, was thinking of something different, but it still stands that these two depictions of the same character are just so different that they warrant two separate tags, as char has mentioned with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, batman and Bruce Wayne and to anyone that says "baww, those are because those are just costumes", well these are all fictional characters so for our purposes of tagging it wouldn't matter if it is a costume or not, it's another depiction plain and simple

Sollux said:
I feel like this thread is going to get locked.

we dont lock ongoing discussions

Rainbow_Dash said:
We are not tagging a mindset, we are tagging a very drastically, consistently different rendition of a character.

No, we're tagging Pinkie Pie with straight hair. Changing hairstyle is not "very drastically, consistently different rendition of a character." When I got my hair cut my friends, and family don't think that I'm my evil twin.

...

Or do they?

P.S.
I'm also rather saddened how people who claim to be a fans of mlp can't accept the fact that Pinkie Pie is not one dimensional ultra happy character. And I have Gilda nickname, I should be making such claims about her.

In the show there is not a single scene when there would be both Pinkamena and Pinkie, and they would be addressed like they are separate characters. It's clear that this is how Pinkie Pie reacts when she thinks that her friends abandoned her. She is sad and depressed but it is clear that she is still the same character. Yes, in here bad mood she loses some color and her hair are straight. However this a character who can suddenly get a party canon out of nowhere and have epilepsy attack when something bad is going to happen. She changes more during her moods, but IMO only people who really hate her claim that she is one dimensional, happy go lucky idiot and otherwise she is really a different character.

Apparently majority of fandom hates her.

Rainbow_Dash said:
We are not tagging a mindset, we are tagging a very drastically, consistently different rendition of a character.

Except it's not a 'very drastically, consistantly different rendition of a character'. It is a fandom's variation on a character's one-time depressive appearance combined with the paranoid mindset and the fanfic Cupcakes' portrayal of how far her psychosis would go that is not itself consistant when you consider thoof the hundreds of images under the tag that they don't consistantly portray her specifically. Further, considering that while she normally is manic, when she flips over on the bipolar scale and becomes depressive she suffers a psychotic break and becomes deranged which is what is shown in most portrayals of the fandom variant. Whilst the creepypasta attributions are drastically different, they themselves are not inherantly connected to the variant, as seen with the many images that do not contain eyeball-less Pinkie Pies bleeding from their eyesockets or reciting zalgo or anything of the sort- the sort of thing that is attributed to nightmare_fuel, like Cupcakes is. Of the rest of the variation that is defined as 'Pinkamena' in the fandom, her eyes are usually not more than half lidded unless angry, her colour palette is darkened by a shade, and her hair straightens. Even then, the palette swap is not even standard (fair share of images have it, fair share don't; seems to be completely arbitrary on whether it's applied or not). That's it for consistant non-mental changes. Yes, at times she gets crazy eyes and a slasher-style grin, but they are not her default expression even in the creepypasta variations, and each of those features already have tags, or are considered currently unimportant to tag (shade difference in palette generally).

This argument is really going in circles here. It abides by our TWYS

How does it abide by TWYS? https://e621.net/post/show/403360 This is not tagged Pinkamena, yet Pinkie Pie is obviously sad/depressed, so what makes her Pinkamena here: https://e621.net/post/show/403244 or here: https://e621.net/post/show/369271 The only really noticable difference is her hair being poofy versus it being straight. We don't tag any other characters as completely separate based on hair design alone, unless they are defined as twins- in which case they are two separate characters that look identical, not just a mental state change.

there is no special circumstance here, the admins are not biased bronies who just want the tags different and there is no higher agenda.

There most definitely is special circumstance here, as this is the only tag that has remained from the days of the mass fandom tags three years prior that we've since removed aside from this tag.

So far several admins have stepped forward defending the tag as being a separate character despite even in one case stating that it's just Pinkie Pie with straight hair, which would be covered just fine under 'Pinkie_pie straight_hair' search, if that was the case. Further it was defended as being something the fandom expects to be able to search, and so therefore the fandom gets to keep the tag even though it does not abide by TWYS, as stated above and many other times prior by more than just myself. This illogical rebuttal that is completely counter to the rules of tagging that we apply to *everything else* and even have just recently went so far as to nix the transgender tag *because it is a mental state and not a physical one that can be seen* is baffling and is why this feels like there's a higher agenda at work here.

It simply comes down to having these very different depictions of a fictional character remaining separate for the sake of blacklisting/searching

pinkie_pie_(mlp) straight_hair (optional addition: nightmare_fuel/creepypasta depending on how creepy/zalgolike you want to go)

-edit: Also my bad on mentioning the TWYS change, was thinking of something different, but it still stands that these two depictions of the same character are just so different that they warrant two separate tags, as char has mentioned with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, batman and Bruce Wayne and to anyone that says "baww, those are because those are just costumes", well these are all fictional characters so for our purposes of tagging it wouldn't matter if it is a costume or not, it's another depiction plain and simple

For the two characters you mentioned, they are canonical names for the two personalities. The Batman is canonically a schizophrenic split personality of Bruce Wayne's own psyche. There was even an entire comic and cartoon arc dedicated to exploring that very topic. Even then, while their build may be the same, they are very visibly different in outfit- Much like how many ponies share the same body size and shape, even hair styles, yet differ by cutie mark and several other distinguishing factors like glasses, hair colour, hide(skin) colour, a particular piece of clothing, etc. (Dr. Hooves, any of the main cast, any of the main supporting cast most specifically. Background character images might be reused as a different character multiple times). Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, even if Mr. Hyde were to be just the Id of Dr. Jekyll unleashed and not a different split personality created by the serum's effects, is different enough physically that he is a representable separate character on sight and could be tagged separately under TWYS because of that. Comparatively, straight hair and half-lidded eyes do not a separate character make.

*cough* character_variant *cough* seriously, it solves all the problems of twys and this pinkamena controversy.

Sollux said:
*cough* character_variant *cough* seriously, it solves all the problems of twys and this pinkamena controversy.

If it was given a separate catagory for fandom-specific tags, which could have 'fndm:' used to apply them to that catagory like 'char:' or 'artist:' and the like, as I noted above I could get behind this over this current standoff.

123easy said:
If it was given a separate catagory for fandom-specific tags, which could have 'fndm:' used to apply them to that catagory like 'char:' or 'artist:' and the like, as I noted above I could get behind this over this current standoff.

I'm not saying to use this tag for just fandoms, it could be used for literally any character that's made to be significantly different from the source original, or alternate personalities, in this case, of the original. Doing so would just happen to invalidate this argument too. (think like making genderswapped characters or ones with a different color scheme having this be a coverall that includes pinkamena)

Sollux said:
I'm not saying to use this tag for just fandoms, it could be used for literally any character that's made to be significantly different from the source original, or alternate personalities, in this case, of the original. Doing so would just happen to invalidate this argument too. (think like making genderswapped characters or ones with a different color scheme having this be a coverall that includes pinkamena)

The way you're suggesting it would make a very large pool of all the variants, or many smaller pools of very specific variants, either of which doesn't resolve what the other side of the argument wants- searchability for the 'Pinkamena' fan-personality.

Rainbow_Dash said:
We are not tagging a mindset, we are tagging a very drastically, consistently different rendition of a character.

-edit: Also my bad on mentioning the TWYS change, was thinking of something different, but it still stands that these two depictions of the same character are just so different that they warrant two separate tags, as char has mentioned with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, batman and Bruce Wayne and to anyone that says "baww, those are because those are just costumes", well these are all fictional characters so for our purposes of tagging it wouldn't matter if it is a costume or not, it's another depiction plain and simple

All thats different is the hair style....we dont tag a character as another name just because of their hair cut. We should follow tag what you see, so any image with pinkie_pie with straight hair should just be tagged as such. They are not different besides hair style. Also as said in the transgender thread it was decided we "dont tag mindsets" if anything a image of pinkie_pie should just have the straight_hair tag so people can find this character with that type of hair style.

If we allow this to be tagged as another char due to hair styl,e then we open the flood gates of all the other fan made names of ponies from the show that already have names. It would just be another mess.

123easy said:
The way you're suggesting it would make a very large pool of all the variants, or many smaller pools of very specific variants, either of which doesn't resolve what the other side of the argument wants- searchability for the 'Pinkamena' fan-personality.

yes, a large pool of all the variants, just add the original character name who's variants you want to search for and boom, emo pinkie pie, and if you don't want any variant characters, then there's a tag for you to blacklist.

Okay then... been going over all the comments, and talked with the admins.

Pinkamena refers to the canon character where she goes crazy in Friendship is Magic and, during that time, exhibits a different personality, the scenery/setting tends to reflect a more chaotic/psychotic theme, and the character traits, are all marks that the art is visibly different than the characteristics of Pinky Pie.

In that, an alias would not serve the best interests of the site. While art may reflect the fanfic version of Pinkamena, this was only considering the canon material.

This also goes in regards for Molestia, being that she is entirely a work of fan fiction, and the precedent doesn't apply.

...There is no canon character named Pinkamena that is a separate character from Pinkamena Diane Pie, who typically shortens her name to Pinkie Pie. There is a fan fiction created character based on the one-time psychotic break that occured, which had slight art changes as denoted previous in multiple posts both my own and those of others. I have also linked images here, on this site, that show how there is no visible difference other than the straight hair, which has its own tag itself (And thus makes this fan-created characterization searchable through Pinkie_Pie_(mlp) straight_hair).

"exhibits a different personality" is strictly against TWYS, and as such an irrelevant factor. Many characters are depicted out of character in various scenes- I highly doubt we'd ever see Twilight Sparkle fucking a futanari Fluttershy, for example, or Krystal from Starfox actually being as slutty as artists have depicted her. In this case her psychotic break is canon, BUT it being a different character is strictly fan-fiction, demonstratably so by simply watching the episode and noting that she still exhibits all the same traits as pinkie pie in a more subdued fashion, and is also paranoid and deluusional until it's revealed that her friends were planning a surprise birthday party for her, at which point she immediately returns to normal physically and mentally.

Scenery and background being different have nothing to do with the character, as well; Just because someone has a bloody and black background behind them does not mean that the character itself is different; Otherwise, when someone 'sees stars' because they've been hit in the head, and there's a spinning background with stars, asterisks, hashmarks, and other symbols to represent the dazed and confused feeling, you're saying that that is actually a different character just because the background is different.

The only changed character traits are those involved with the psychotic break, which is a mental condition which we do not tag and do not consider for tagging as per TWYS, and is just a restatement of the "different personality" point which is refuted above. Further in regards to that, once the psychotic episode was over (within the same episode), she returned to her normal manic self (her hair even fluffs up on its own at that point) from her depressive psychotic state; as such, the 'canon character' is only Pinkie Pie, not some other character that inhabits her body for a period- her darker side is just usually suppressed; You can see similar situations occur with the Discorded ponies, as well as when Twilight goes loopy because of her schedule going haywire (didn't have a letter on the topic of hat she learned that week about friendship to Celestia) and the stress getting to her. However, because the fandom didn't leap on that characterization and create a fan fiction version of Twilight that was that popular, we don't have a separate character tag for that (that state also only lasted an episode too; the episode name was Lesson Zero).

If you intend to have your phrase 'character traits' apply only to physical traits (as mental traits have already been refuted as being irrelevant due to TWYS), once again, straight_hair is the only real 'standard' as many images don't even use the darkened palette here or offsite; Even Google's search that Char brought up has a very large variety for how she's depicted, even including her being happy/manic, but with the straight hair instead of her poofed hair, or sad/depresserd with the poofed hair (as she was originally in the episode leading up to her psychotic break as well).

Please, if you're going to defend the tag, at least use an argument that doesn't refute the most intrinsic tagging rule of the site, and actually address the points being brought up refuting even those points.

Lol, it's been a while since I jumped in a form. I don't know why people love to fight over this.... People has said it before. The Pinkamena tag has a purpose and function, even if it's origins is based on episodes of her real name being said, of her having a psychotic break with a sad overtone and a cooking with pinkie fanfic later.

And don't keep say, Pinkamena is just pinkie with straight hair... more than 60% of the characters have straight hair and trying to find pinkie with or without straight hair would be a nightmare.

And just like the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde example given by Char. Did she have a personality change? Yes. Did she get more violent than she normally is? Yes. Did she have any physical changes? Yes. The comics poke fun at her straight hair and personality change as well. But that's the thing, It's a distinguishing change from her norm. No! she doesn't refer to herself as Pinkamena even tho that is her real name and the only characters that may know that is her family, since it's the only time she is shown answering to being called that.

Then again Derpy hooves is a "Fan" name that people liked better than 'ditzy doo' and look which name stuck.

The idea of Molestia as some said is just Celestia with a rape face and in john joseco case she has Grey hair. Yes in Lesson Zero's Twilight did get a little crazy, but if you were a neat freak perfectionist late to submit your 'homework' to the person you wish to impress above all others, you may start freaking out to.

But seriously, you all must have watched cartoons back in the day and know the names of few heroes under their masks or persona change. All but one super hero does a piss poor job at hiding his identity and that Superman, yet he is still considered as different to Clerk and all he does is put on glasses and un-curl his hair. He has the lamest change and yet he is still two different character sets, The hero and the pencil pusher.

But here's my questions. Is this tag make it harder for you to find what your looking for here? Does it have any function? Do people actual use the tag? Can a character style be identified to the tag? Well this tag open the flood gates for fanbase interpretations of characters even tho it more than 2 years old now, Or is just something you want to complain about when many others don't really mind or care anymore.

In the case of a multiple personality disorder that requires you to call him 'Mike' if he has a Top Hat and a Monocle, 'James' if he has knife in his hands and cuts himself and 'Trish' If he puts on a dress and earrings, then you could have a problem. But then again, their would always be someone to defend or bash it. It human nature after all.

The show's creators supported Derpy, Hasbro didn't, so they went with a name that referenced the idea with Ditzy Doo, considering the flak they got for Derpy being called Derpy canonically, by angry parents who took it as an insult meant to call her retarded rather than as a loving fan nickname ascended to canon.

Pinkie_pie_(mlp) straight_hair returns images of Pinkamena just fine, which illustrate that it works quite effectively for wanting the straight-haired look of Pinkie. Searching Pinkamena -Straight_hair shows a lot of images that simply lack the straight_hair tag, and when fixed would appropriately be searchable under pinkie_pie straight_hair. Your argument only holds up if it wasn't even tagged pinkie_pie as well, which is just a lack of proper tagging and has no bearing on whether Pinkie_Pie straight_hair makes it searchable.

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde are vastly different from each other, though. Bruce Banner and The Hulk, for a more modern take on the situation. ere, the physical changes are more than enough to warrant a separate character tag, because under TWYS, they AREN'T the same character. In fact, Hulk responds to being called Hulk, and even has a different personality from Bruce Banner (and we have canon material that shows Bruce mentally warring for control with the Hulk persona). Many (canon and non-canon both) adaptations of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde portray them the same way, with it being a completely different character that inhabits the same body. However, changing one's haircut doesn't change who you are. Getting a tan or getting paler from lack of sun doesn't make you someone else. Going temporarily insane doesn't make you someone different (though if you trigger a case of MPD, you might, but that's a completely separate topic that has no bearing on what is at hand here). Everyone who saw her didn't see her as some new person, but as she had always been- Pinkie Pie. They noticed she was feeling paranoid and, later, sad, they noticed her hair change, but it wasn't a new character to those who she interacted with, and that's canon.

Note that two years ago tags like this and others that were fandom-based were fought against rather strongly, and guess what? It was thought they were all gone, because the rest of them vanished too. It was only brought to my attention shortly before I started this thread that this tag remained of all the ones already fixed. Molestia was/is one such tag, and the only difference between it and fanon Pinkamena is that there is no source canon material that it drew upon in any fashion; Trollestia however, does draw upon canon (see: the number of times she trolls the main cast, or her entire kingdom, as seen most especially in the episode where the phoenix dies, and she lets it play out instead of telling any of them what was happening), yet is still just the same character with specific mental traits amped up, and was aliased away as well.

Lesson Zero Twilight was brought up because there's many similarities between her and fanon!Pinkie, including the psychotic break, going temporarily insane, hair style change, creepy and crazy antics/faces, attitude change, the whole nine yards- with the sole exception she wasn't picked up by the fandom and given a fan nickname, and so since it wasn't as popular as fanon!Pinkie, didn't recieve a tag specifically for it. There's plenty of images here that have creepy/dark/nightmare_fuel aspects to them featuring any of the other ponies including Twilight, but they remain tagged appropriately to the character they are, not to a fanon nickname (even if 'Pinkamena' is simply Pinkie's full name).

Superman is more than just glasses and a hair change; If Clark was caught wearing Superman's outfit with his glasses, they'd see Superman with glasses. Similarily, take Clark's glasses off and change the hair, and it's Superman in a suit. Further, it's a little bit unfair to use him as an example as his disguise is paper-thin and maintained thanks to mental powers (yes, it's really canon that he uses a form of light continual hypnosis to people that interact with him to have 'minor details' like that prevent him from being exposed... So dumb); additionally, it's a costumed persona, which the ponies do have an example of in Mare Do Well; Multiple of them dressed up in the costume, but they all assumed the same name. While Kal-El is the only "true" Superman, there have been quite a few others who have assumed the mantle of his name before. There was a black man who put together a suit of steel armor and wields a hammer who arose during the Death of Superman time period, calling himself the Man of Steel after Superman's own moniker, and for a time actually managed to confuse people as to whether Superman was actually dead or not. Superboy has also operated under the Superman name previously, before he earned his own name (And for bonus points, he's a clone of Superman using genetic material from Supes and Lex Luthor- Yes, you just heard it here folks, let the SupermanxLuthor boats squee! :P). Heck, there's even the Cyborg Superman who posed as Supes to destroy his reputation. (you can read more here )

Does this tag make it harder to find things? Well, yes. Not every image of Pinkie being unhappy or depressed necessarily involves her suffering a psychotic break, and vice versa. A lot of things get tagged with 'Pinkamena' that don't fit the fanon, like this or this or this or this (All she is is angry-looking with straight hair. What about this even hints at psychosis? There isn't anything, it's just a straight-haired angry Pinkie). Further, someone who just knows about Pinkie Pie and wants a disturbing image of her (who knows, amybe they want to troll a friend?) isn't going to search "Pinkamena" knowing that's the fandom name, so outside the fandom it actually negatively impacts searching.

Does it have function? One filled by other tags, yes. A bad tag that performs a function still gets nixed, however; Transgender is an example of that, as it dealt with a purely mental situation, which TWYS renders invalid.

Do people actually use this tag? Yes, but see above. Additionally, it's something you'd see the fandom use, but not those outside/unfamiliar with the fandom.

Can style be identified to the tag? No, as showcased above and in previous posts, illustrating that the tag is used very vaguely, and mostly identifies mental aspects of the character, which breaks TWYS, as noted above.

Rules are set for a reason. Having them bent for no good reason other than 'it's popular in the fandom' (still waiting for one better than that... it's been repeated in Char's, RD's, and EDF's posts as the primary reason to retain it :/) sets a dangerous precedent for every other fandom, especially when they have been systematically shut down previously on similar grounds as well. This is mostly why I continue to say that it's appropriate to make such distinctions when on a fandom site, like 20PC, but that for e6 it's not acceptable.

If someone has MPD, and they were shown in multiple pictures as their different personalities, they would be tagged according to the primary personality (generally the original personality that spawned the secondary personalities, as it is usually the one most often in control) since it is not able to be seen if they are a different personality or simply acting out of character. On FA or GIS or RL or whatever, another personality that has no other distinguishing characteristics is treated like they are a separate entity. TWYS tags them all as the same person with minor different features.

I care, but I don't care that much. Said my piece. Good luck with the war. Since EDFDarkAngel1 already gave his answer. Which you can't expect for some reason or the other.

Everyone just stop arguing. Many people use the tag, there are admins who believe it should stay, you reference the twys rule, but guess who made that rule, the people who say the tag stays. I'm not saying you shouldn't bring tags to their attention like this one, but ultimately its their decision and not ours, so arguing amongst yourselves after they've made up their mind is only going to cause butthurt.

Sollux said:
Everyone just stop arguing. Many people use the tag, there are admins who believe it should stay, you reference the twys rule, but guess who made that rule, the people who say the tag stays. I'm not saying you shouldn't bring tags to their attention like this one, but ultimately its their decision and not ours, so arguing amongst yourselves after they've made up their mind is only going to cause butthurt.

No one is arguing, we are having a discusion. Now what "many people"? Can you name any of them?

Also we dont bend tag what you see. Lastly Ed didnt make the rule tag what you see, that rule has been here longer than they have.

@Falord

Is this tag make it harder for you to find what your looking for here?

Yes.

1. Suppose that there is person who is new to some franchise. That person sees a interesting picture of a character - let's call him Mark. Xe wants to know how this character is named.

Now:
Xe opens a picture, and sees that there is tag Mark - success.

After changes:
Xe opens a picture, and sees several character tags. Xe still don't have a clue who the fuck is this character. Xe only knows that franchise's fandom is stupid.

2. Have you ever tried fixing bad tag, without using scripts, in picture that contains all of pokemon? The more tags there are, the more difficult is to edit tags.

Does it have any function?

Apparently not, since you all can't even agree whether it's just about straight hair, craziness, or even "the scenery/setting".

Do people actual use the tag?

Yes. So did people use tags like shota, or loli. They were aliased.

Not to mention that over half of instances of this tag are not correctly used according to the tag wiki.

Can a character style be identified to the tag?

Let me quote Butterscotch

@Gilda Artists are free to picture Pinkamena in the way they want, that does not take away the fact that it's still another personality that they're drawing

So, no. Character style cannot by identified by this tag.

Well this tag open the flood gates for fanbase interpretations of characters even tho it more than 2 years old now

Well, it started almost immediately:

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
If we have an implication (and fix Princess Molestia as well),

So, yeah - apparently this tag quickly leads to suggestions to accept another tags like this.

Or is just something you want to complain about when many others don't really mind or care anymore.

So, you're basicly saying that nobody would mind/care if this tag would be removed? Awesome! Remove it then! :)

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Okay then... been going over all the comments, and talked with the admins.

Pinkamena refers to the canon character where she goes crazy in Friendship is Magic and, during that time, exhibits a different personality, the scenery/setting tends to reflect a more chaotic/psychotic theme, and the character traits, are all marks that the art is visibly different than the characteristics of Pinky Pie.

In that, an alias would not serve the best interests of the site. While art may reflect the fanfic version of Pinkamena, this was only considering the canon material.

This also goes in regards for Molestia, being that she is entirely a work of fan fiction, and the precedent doesn't apply.

That's silly.

The name is mentioned first when Pinkie is on the rock farm. Why are we tagging a character's actual name as a weird, psychotic persona that is just as fan-made as Molestia? Do we only use the tag when straight-haired Pinkie is going crazy? what if she doesn't have straight hair, but is still decapitating Rainbow Dash? What if she has straight hair, but is just being her usual, bubbly self? What if she's just under Discord's influence? I'm sorry, but this is just a vague and unnecessary tag.

Pinkie: Nickname. Pinkamena Diane Pie: Real name.

Why is this so confusing?

Sollux said:
Everyone just stop arguing. Many people use the tag, there are admins who believe it should stay, you reference the twys rule, but guess who made that rule, the people who say the tag stays. I'm not saying you shouldn't bring tags to their attention like this one, but ultimately its their decision and not ours, so arguing amongst yourselves after they've made up their mind is only going to cause butthurt.

If they want it to stay, and they provided a reasonable, logical answer that didn't break the rule they set *without moving forward to change the rule*, I'd be cool with that. So far, we've gotten "The fandom uses it so it's okay", "she's in a different mental state so she's a different character", "backgrounds help determine if a character should be tagged different from how they look", and "well there's THIS character that canonically is one person with two personalities/a costumed appearance that goes by another name, so it counts!".

If it's just because they want it, then that's fine, if they stated that then I'd have accepted it. Grumbled some about favoritism because ponies, but it'd not be the first time that something of the sort happened (SnowWolf arguing for scootabuse and scootalove and scootaffection and scootahate... ugh). However, we have had multiple supporting statements that it's not just because admins want it, followed by arguments that seem to be thrown together ad hoc just to try and give some flimsy justification to keeping it instead of a legitimate reason within the ruleset that we as a community agree upon and reinforce through agreeing and following those rules, TWYS included; nothing of any substance that stands on its own without ignoring the obvious, in this case the rules that disagree with whats being said. I'm not the only one that sees this and is willing to speak up either, as previous pages illustrate.

TL;DR version: If they'd given a reasonable justification within the rules as stated instead of reaching for points that the rules don't agree with, didn't try to say that it was within the rules (esp. TWYS), and/or proposed a change to the rules so that an exception exists for personality swaps like this which normally breaks TWYS (incest is a good example of an exception to TWYS, as a comparison), then I'd have been cool with that. But they haven't, and it's frustrating seeing the same arguments over and over when they fall flat before the rules as they currently stand, without any attempt to revise them, and simply restating them even after what's wrong with them has been picked apart.