I've seen them used usually all at once, and I don't know the exact difference.

Based on this old post, "bondage" means it is consensual, while "bound" may be not. However, how does one tell by the picture if it is consesual or not? Besides, isn't then "bondage" just the same as "bdsm"?

Lizardite said:
I've seen them used usually all at once, and I don't know the exact difference.

Based on this old post, "bondage" means it is consensual, while "bound" may be not. However, how does one tell by the picture if it is consesual or not? Besides, isn't then "bondage" just the same as "bdsm"?

BDSM stands for Bondage and Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. It's a sexual art that implies a wide range of like-minded activities.

While bondage is part of that, bound is not. Bound is simply the act of being bound, it may not be sexual or part of BDSM.

bdsm is our big umbrella term for any kind of sexual disciplinary/master pet play, which bondage is under among other things

Fine then :)

Lizardite said:
However, how does one tell by the picture if it is consensual or not?

The same way as rape is tagged.
...it's largely subjective. But as far as I've understood, images shouldn't be tagged with both rape and bondage. So use whichever seems more appropriate.

(If there's any actual bondage gear in use, it's probably consensual.)

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
BDSM stands for Bondage and Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. It's a sexual art that implies a wide range of like-minded activities.

While bondage is part of that, bound is not. Bound is simply the act of being bound, it may not be sexual or part of BDSM.

Bondage and Discipline, Dominant and Submissive, Sadism and Masochism. Missed the middle one. ;)

Otherwise he is correct; bound is used for the state of being bound, thus bondage implies bound, but bound does not imply bondage.

As for Genjar stating it's largely subjective- Not really, yet at the same time yeah it is. If it looks like one is in pain and agony and not pleasured by it, it's typically tagged for rape. Bondage and dominance paraphernalia like specially designed spanking paddles, latex bodysuits, o-rings, and the like are generally treated as just being BDSM, but if it looks like it's being forced it should still be tagged as rape.

Imho tag "bound" is fitting for captive which was bound just to be immobilized.. or being alternative to bondage. BDSM isn't alternative to bondage for people who actually involved\interested in those areas. You may just bind someone by wrapping material around them.. but bondage is when it's done with skill and concern - for safety, pretty look, etcetera.

Bondage is always part of BDSM - as part of BDSM community I see that as false statement. Proper way to say it - "bondage is one of possible parts of BDSM", sub might be disciplined or decorated in other way, I knew subs who physically cant stand actual bondage, or blindfold - their conscience goes haywire into panic state. In same way you could link then "leash" , "collar" to bdsm too.. creation lots of misunderstanding, although, unlike bondage, collar is almost must have part of BDSM.

My another concern was that shibari is replaced by rope_bondage. Not all rope bondage is shibari, some of western techiniques of rope bondage aren't originated in kinbaku roots - for example - portugese cuffs, or gunslinger harness. Shibari, or actually, how it properly should be called - kinbaku - is an art, performance or still picture, where ropes used to create certain look, like architectural elements. It might be even public performance, semi-nude or in clothes, this art usually considered SFW, or Moderarate, unlike bondage, or, hell no, BDSM , which is explicit. Bound isn't equal to bondage, shibari isn't equal to bondage, bondage isn't equal to BDSM, that's what I meant.

Also would be then rape and forced or nonconsensual would be linked together? At least it doesn't seem people link gore and guro - very common mistake.

It's a typical set/subset relationship.
All bondage is bdsm, not all bdsm is bondage.
This is true by the very definition of the term BDSM.

We do not intent to say that all bondage includes all aspects of BDSM, just that it is a part of it based on the definition of BDSM.

Halite said:
We do not intent to say that all bondage includes all aspects of BDSM, just that it is a part of it based on the definition of BDSM.

"All bondage is bdsm" - and that's false as I said. Not all bdsm is bondage - holding someone on leash, while they cuddle , or walk around is also part of BDSM.. Dressing someone as animal pet , so they can't remove that dress - BDSM too. Not all bondage is is bdsm.. you may cuff your partner to let them feel more vulnerable - some people get turned on by that - it's bondage, it's not bdsm. Not all shibari is bondage, or related to sexual act - it's just performance of various skill - craft and anatomy knowledge.

but it's what website forced to do.. if I add tag "bondage" it forcefully adds "bdsm"

Tag linking should use Aristotle logic and semantics:
1) if all A are B then A is B.
2) if all A are B, but some B aren't A, then B isn't A.

I think, there might be issue , that tag linking is symmetric - if A is B then B is A, which is true for algebra, but not for logic. If that's so then it should be directed to developers..

Swiftkill said:
Yes, but it's what website forced to do.. if I add tag "bondage" it forcefully adds "bdsm"

Well, they go hand-in-hand.

I'd definitely say that tying someone up, blindfolding, gagging them and leaving them there without food or water is probably hurting them in some way.

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
Well, they go hand-in-hand.

I'd definitely say that tying someone up, blindfolding, gagging them and leaving them there without food or water is probably hurting them in some way.

That actually three big "what not to do" in bondage - leaving, decling in life support and hurting not for causing more sensivity. Actually bondage shouldn't include anything painful, except straining or struggling of sub, any accidental pain should be avoided. And it's frowned upon in BDSM, except pain there may used as discipline method. "leaving" is actually no-no, sub always sould be observed. Hurting just for sake of it - also "no". Leaving person without observation just for hour, even in easy bondage may kill them, especially with blindfold or gag, as certain psychological or physiological states may develop unpredicatbly.

Swiftkill said:
That actually three big "what not to do" in bondage. And it's frowned upon in BDSM. Well, four, as "leaving" is actually no-no, sub always sould be observed. Hurting just for sake of it - also "no". Leaving person without observation just for hour, even in easy bondage may kill them, especially with blindfold or gag, as certain psychological or physiological states may develop unpredicatbly.

So then, why is it, you know, drawn and done?

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
So then, why is it, you know, drawn and done?

I have both bondage eand BDSM art, heh.. and shibari too.
Some pinups, photos might do for sake of visuals. For sample, I have drawing of upside down suspension - in real life such is done only for display of model's body and rope master skill - and model hardly may stay there more than 20 minutes. Yes, rope master vent off the camera line - and sometimes they don't - on opposite they show off how they handle the model

Swiftkill said:
"All bondage is bdsm" - and that's false as I said. Not all bdsm is bondage - holding someone on leash, while they cuddle , or walk around is also part of BDSM.. Dressing someone as animal pet , so they can't remove that dress - BDSM too. Not all bondage is is bdsm.. you may cuff your partner to let them feel more vulnerable - some people get turned on by that - it's bondage, it's not bdsm. Not all shibari is bondage, or related to sexual act - it's just performance of various skill - craft and anatomy knowledge.

but it's what website forced to do.. if I add tag "bondage" it forcefully adds "bdsm"

Tag linking should use Aristotle logic and semantics:
1) if all A are B then A is B.
2) if all A are B, but some B aren't A, then B isn't A.

I think, there might be issue , that tag linking is symmetric - if A is B then B is A, which is true for algebra, but not for logic. If that's so then it should be directed to developers..

You're failing to understand my meaning entirely.
I am not saying that all BDSM is bondage, I very explicitly stated that it wasn't in fact.
But, all bondage is a form of BDSM, period, by the very definition of the term BDSM.

It's like saying that all oranges are fruit, I'm not saying all fruit is an orange, but based on the definition of "fruit" all oranges fit into that category.

BDSM is bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism(in a sexual/romantic setting).
So if it's sadism, it's BDSM, if it's masochism, it's BDSM, if it's discipline, it's BDSM, and if it's bondage, it's BDSM.
That is the actual definition of the term.

Swiftkill said:
I have both bondage eand BDSM art, heh.. and shibari too.
Some pinups, photos might do for sake of visuals. For sample, I have drawing of upside down suspension - in real life such is done only for display of model's body and rope master skill - and model hardly may stay there more than 20 minutes. Yes, rope master vent off the camera line - and sometimes they don't - on opposite they show off how they handle the model

And this relates to my question how exactly?

Halite said:
BDSM is bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism(in a sexual/romantic setting).
So if it's sadism, it's BDSM, if it's masochism, it's BDSM, if it's discipline, it's BDSM, and if it's bondage, it's BDSM.
That is the actual definition of the term.

Are you meaning that it's not true, but most people think so? Aren't we supposed then to stop linking those that instead of continuing to support stupidity , not making even more people would think that light bondage = bdsm?

Sadism.. well, sadism might be crush, gore or snuff also, not related to bondage.. as well as masochism may be related to those too, but there you most likely right. But we don't put every snuff pic into bdsm category, right?

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
And this relates to my question how exactly?

very careful. Master of rope should know anatomy, have medical and first aid skills, to be able see if something is going on, sub\model always have right and means signal about distress - that's how it's going reality - it doesn't mean that she not enjoining to hang like that - usually "rope slut" phenomenon applies, caused by different blood flow and pressure on muscles..

Common mistake to think that top\dom enjoys subs pain? No, those actually shouldn't be even allowed to such performance. What he\she should enjoy is playing and forcing\discipline sub into certain behavior, make them enjoy that experience, submitting to master's will.

Swiftkill said:
very careful. Master of rope should know anatomy, have medical and first aid skills, to be able see if something is going on, sub\model always have right and means signal about distress - that's how it's going reality - it doesn't mean that she not enjoining to hang like that - usually "rope slut" phenomenon applies, caused by different blood flow and pressure on muscles..

...I'm guessing English isn't exactly your first language, is it?

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
...I'm guessing English isn't exactly your first language, is it?

I'm russian

Swiftkill said:
Are you meaning that it's not true, but most people think so? Aren't we supposed then to stop linking those that instead of continuing to support stupidity , not making even more people would think that light bondage = bdsm?

Sadism.. well, sadism might be crush, gore or snuff also, not related to bondage.. as well as masochism may be related to those too, but there you most likely right. But we don't put every snuff pic into bdsm category, right?

Sadism isn't killing.
In fact, true sadists would really prefer that their partner/victim(when talking criminal sadists not BDSM), don't die.
Sadism is taking pleasure from the pain, humiliation, and degradation of others, something that requires a living partner/victim.

Light bondage is BDSM, it's probably the most tame, and least stigmatized form of it.
Those who practice it don't necessarily want people who don't understand the distinction between that, and more rough forms of BDSM to assume they also participate in other things, just because they fit into the same category.
People who keep propagating the idea that any BDSM means you're into hard, and potentially embarrassing activities, perhaps even under the guise of being "part" of BDSM, and showing concern over the definitions of what should or should count as BDSM.

Halite said:
Sadism is taking pleasure from the pain, humiliation, and degradation of others, something that requires a living partner/victim.

True. But bondage not necessary humiliating or painful, often isn't. And I don't know from where are you but here several people where shunned and badmouthed for actually just enjoying pain and humiliation of sub, not caring of wellbeing - and they aren't allowed into places \events.

Swiftkill said:
True. But bondage not necessary humiliating or painful, often isn't. And I don't know from where are you but here several people where shunned and badmouthed for actually just enjoying pain and humiliation of sub, not caring of wellbeing - and they aren't allowed into places \events.

Never said it was, bondage doesn't have to include sadism, or masochism to count as BDSM.

Halite said:
Never said it was, bondage doesn't have to include sadism, or masochism to count as BDSM.

You marked shibari picture as BDSm.. are you aware that shibari isn't about sex or sexuality or relations at all, it's just visual art? Though, I know, for some people nude = sex, may be you're one of them.? And shibari isn't always nude.. While bondage usually related to sex, or BDSM, yes.

I stop this discussion as it seem that your opinion of bondage is linked to sadism, as just as well that every top\dom should be sadism. That's stereotypical, and I knew people who think that.. it's not very popular among those who actually are subs or doms, but it cannot be changes -stereotypes stick.

I think the OP's question has been answered...

Swiftkill said:
...

I stop this discussion as it seem that your opinion of bondage is linked to sadism, as just as well that every top\dom should be sadism. That's stereotypical, and I knew people who think that.. it's not very popular among those who actually are subs or doms, but it cannot be changes -stereotypes stick.

That's not even close to my opinion.
In fact, the only opinion I have formed lately is that you seem to be misunderstanding, and misinterpreting what I'm trying to say here.
I'm starting to think it may be intentionally.
And frankly, you're being awfully rude.

Halite said:
That's not even close to my opinion.
In fact, the only opinion I have formed lately is that you seem to be misunderstanding, and misinterpreting what I'm trying to say here.
I'm starting to think it may be intentionally.
And frankly, you're being awfully rude.

I'm sorry if that's so, for my native language my tone is normal/argumentative, here seems present lack of intonation. I only mean, that you consider that class bondage fully included into class bdsm, while I don't think same. Whatever we would say, this discussion was pointless, because both of us would stay at same point of view, and I felt that we both would just become rude, so we had to stop. (in my view, for example, you was if not rude, but not considerate - I wasn't saying, giving a thing that so due to language barrier)

For the record, the original post that I referred to is https://e621.net/forum/show/17835

I feel like the only argument against having bondage implicate BDSM is because they are not always the same thing.

That's like saying a brown bear and an ursine are not always the same thing. While that is true, a bear will always be an ursine, much like bondage will always be BDSM, but an ursine will not always be a brown bear, much like BDSM will not always be bondage

Rainbow_Dash said:
I feel like the only argument against having bondage implicate BDSM is because they are not always the same thing.

That's like saying a brown bear and an ursine are not always the same thing. While that is true, a bear will always be an ursine, much like bondage will always be BDSM, but an ursine will not always be a brown bear, much like BDSM will not always be bondage

And this is the argument we present every time someone who doesn't understand implications and the terms pipes up about how bondage shouldn't implicate BDSM. :)

123easy said:
And this is the argument we present every time someone who doesn't understand implications and the terms pipes up about how bondage shouldn't implicate BDSM. :)

I'm locking this thread since the question has been answered. Thank you to everyone for self-moderating. If you have an additional point to bring up, please start a new thread.