Why are both loli and shota lumped together in the young tag? There is a huge difference between loli and shota and they should be separated.

forum #100787
forum #44664

Loli is young girl.
Shota is young boy

I see no problem.

He wants loli aliased to young and female.
He wants shota aliased to young and male.

https://e621.net/tag_alias?query=loli&aliased_to=&user=&approved=all&order=tag
null0010 "don't need gender specificity"

https://e621.net/tag_alias?query=shota&aliased_to=&user=&approved=all&order=tag
null0010 "don't need gender specificity"

Check the previous thread: forum #100787

From what I can see, it was pretty much agreed that those should be unaliased. But then the discussion died and nothing happened about it.

They really should be unaliased.
It valid under TWYS, and adds value to searching, and blacklisting.

so if we're allowing gender specific tags now should we undo the cow/bull->cattle, or the bitch->dog, or mare/stallion->horse. If we're going to allow some, we need to allow all.

ippiki_ookami said:
so if we're allowing gender specific tags now should we undo the cow/bull->cattle, or the bitch->dog, or mare/stallion->horse. If we're going to allow some, we need to allow all.

Not at all.
We should allow them if they significantly add to the usefulness of searching and blacklisting.
Gender specific species tags wouldn't add anything significant.
Loli and Shota are both definitely fetishes that a large amount of people would both search for, and want to blacklist.
And quite a lot of the people who would search for one, wouldn't want to find the other.

Halite said:
Not at all.
We should allow them if they significantly add to the usefulness of searching and blacklisting.
Gender specific species tags wouldn't add anything significant.
Loli and Shota are both definitely fetishes that a large amount of people would both search for, and want to blacklist.
And quite a lot of the people who would search for one, wouldn't want to find the other.

Or not see either, but would like to see images with children in a non-sexualized situation. This was discussed quite a few times now; Last I knew RD was going to talk with it amongst the admins to have loli and shota used specifically for where they are young males/females and are sexualized.

But loli and shota refers almost explicitly to a character type, not whether or not that character type is being used in explicit situations... loli refers to a character who would be considered a "lolita" which is a young girl or one who appears young, while shota refers to a character who would be considered a "shoutarou" which is a young boy or one who appears young. They are much more specific than the generalized term "young" and do not refer explicitly to characters in sexual situations.

Lucali said:
*snip* ...do not refer explicitly to characters in sexual situations.

Nuh-uh. Loli as a term is coined for Lolicon (shortened from Lolita complex), which itself is a term coined for Lolita, the title of the 1958 novel by Vladimir Nabokov about a precocious schoolgirl nicknamed Lolita (for which the title is given), seduced by (and seemingly seducing at the same time) an older man- Lolicon is thus a fetish in the same vein as Humbert's. Shota/Shotacon is the male equivilent (Shotarou complex) and is a reference to Shotarou from Tetsujin 28-go; a male character in parallel to Lolita's female, though without the sexual connotations within the original work itself that Lolita had, the term was created to be the parallel to Lolicon specifically as he was a sort of paragon of 'cute young boy'-ness.

While it may have been adapted in some circles for nonsexual usage (Why god why would you ever do such a thing with such a loaded term?!) it carries with it a heavy connotation that it will never escape. Further, we may generally be an art depository/gallery rather than a porn-only one, but let's not kid ourselves- that's the primary (though not only) reason we exist. It can be seen in the tags that we utilize, and the general scope of artwork displayed.

Further, taking into account what I've noted above, which do you think is more appropriate for purposes of continued blacklisting- Sexual connotations about the individual gender at a specific level of physical maturity that is visually identifiable, or simply 'gender-specific young'?

123easy said:
Nuh-uh. Loli as a term is coined for Lolicon (shortened from Lolita complex), which itself is a term coined for Lolita, the title of the 1958 novel by Vladimir Nabokov about a precocious schoolgirl nicknamed Lolita (for which the title is given), seduced by (and seemingly seducing at the same time) an older man- Lolicon is thus a fetish in the same vein as Humbert's. Shota/Shotacon is the male equivilent (Shotarou complex) and is a reference to Shotarou from Tetsujin 28-go; a male character in parallel to Lolita's female, though without the sexual connotations within the original work itself that Lolita had, the term was created to be the parallel to Lolicon specifically as he was a sort of paragon of 'cute young boy'-ness.

While it may have been adapted in some circles for nonsexual usage (Why god why would you ever do such a thing with such a loaded term?!) it carries with it a heavy connotation that it will never escape. Further, we may generally be an art depository/gallery rather than a porn-only one, but let's not kid ourselves- that's the primary (though not only) reason we exist. It can be seen in the tags that we utilize, and the general scope of artwork displayed.

Further, taking into account what I've noted above, which do you think is more appropriate for purposes of continued blacklisting- Sexual connotations about the individual gender at a specific level of physical maturity that is visually identifiable, or simply 'gender-specific young'?

Ah, this topic again. But yeah, no changes need to be made. Locking the thread unless someone has new content to produce.