This topic pops up amongst my circle of friends pretty often and has led to some very colorful conversation. I thought it'd be interesting to hear what this community does with it.

The goal is simple. Share the opinions, actions or habits you have that make you a hypocrite. What standards do you hold others to that you don't hold to yourself? Are you comfortable with being inconsistent? Why or why not?

In the context of multiplayer PC games, I tend to razz players who aren't speaking the host server's primary language (in my case, always English). I find it extremely annoying to have to read around South American and East European players' text or try to ignore side conversations over voice chat while playing a game. My general reaction is to look up their nation's stereotypes and troll.

Offline, especially at work, I come across Spanish-speaking folks all the time and never so much as bat an eye. I have reprimanded staff at my job for making insensitive remarks regarding customers who cannot speak English or who have their children translate for them. One of my favorite coworkers is a guy who is actively trying to learn Spanish so he can be the go-to cashier for these folks, and it is working phenomenally well.

Nothing.

Oh man, so many things. Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes. Especially you, Halite.

I don't get too torn up about it. It's human nature. Part of it just has to do with context. There are no set rules we can set that'll apply to *all* situations.
For example, I'm extremely against individual ownership of lethal weapons. Then one time I was almost mugged at gunpoint when I was visiting Brussels. Pro tip; that city has a higher than average street crime rate. Thanks guidebook!
I managed to talk my way out of it unscathed (I know what you're thinking. How the fuck do you talk your way out of being mugged at gunpoint? It was on a busy street and he was only threatening me subtly, showing me the gun in his inside coat pocket. I called his bluff and said I would run for help.) but I was more than a little jumpy for a good while afterwards! So, at the next town I stopped in, I saw there was a 'lil street stall selling nifty flick knives and I bought one. Still not much use against a gun, but I figured it'd be better than nothing.

Now, in retrospect I know this was completely the wrong thing to do. If anything, owning a weapon in a direct confrontation is only likely to increase the chances of one or both parties getting injured or killed. But I was scared and jumpy and I did it anyway. Hypocritical, but understandable all the same.

That's an extreme example, but there are little things all the time. Telling people to eat healthy, to complain less, to be optimistic.

I make fun of my significant other for doing nerd things and then I cosplay all the time and make costumes and props

Why am I okay with this? Well clearly my awesome levels allow me to do it and not be a nerd

Same with what Rainbow Dash said I make fun of my roommate and a couple of his friends when they went to sakuracon dressed as I think Chrom and Sora here I said they were nerds but uhh look at my username i'm in marching band +20 nerd points for me I guess... Although I do play the Tenor Saxophone for marching band but still marching band.... so I guess i'm in no postion to call people out on nerdyness :/

I kinda make fun of people for being creepy weardos and here I am a member of this site being a creepy weardo, but hey, at least I'm quiet about in real life

Rainbow_Dash said:
I make fun of my significant other for doing nerd things and then I cosplay all the time and make costumes and props

Why am I okay with this? Well clearly my awesome levels allow me to do it and not be a nerd

You got a fucking permanent tattoo for Christ sakes.

I'm pretty hypocritical when it comes to being a little bitch to people who are being little bitches, and thus neither of us learn.

I don't very much like pictures with guys (furry or otherwise)but I'll drool all over the floor for a herm or dickgirl OwO

Oh, man. Where do I start >_<

Moon_Moon said:
You got a fucking permanent tattoo for Christ sakes.

I'm pretty hypocritical when it comes to being a little bitch to people who are being little bitches, and thus neither of us learn.

hue hue hue that's what I mean. I get a real cutie mark and then call my boyfriend a nerd for playing D&D

Moon_Moon said:
You got a fucking permanent tattoo

I have one tattoo and two piercings your move

I call people out in FPS games for camping with bitch guns. I don't camp, but I will still use bitch guns.

I once laughed at people who watched MLP, then I say ''oh...''

Xch3l said:
I once laughed at people who watched MLP, then I say ''oh...''

post #300565

:P

Xch3l said:
I once laughed at people who watched MLP, then I say ''oh...''

post #204917

Dogenzaka said:
I call people out in FPS games for camping with bitch guns. I don't camp, but I will still use bitch guns.

So you call them out for using superior tactics? o.O

123easy said:
So you call them out for using superior tactics? o.O

Camping isn't superior tactics, it's taking advantage of bad game design.

Halite said:
Camping isn't superior tactics, it's taking advantage of bad game design.

well camping would work IRL too, so as annoying as it is, it is a successful tactic

thatoneclarinetist said:
I have one tattoo and two piercings your move

When I said cutie mark, I literally meant the actual cutie marks from the show

Rainbow_Dash said:
I said cutie mark, I literally meant the actual cutie marks from the show

LOLwut? all I got was a black question mark with an upsidedown red heart as the dot on my right pectoral please tell me you did not get that cutie mark on your face -_-

123easy said:
So you call them out for using superior tactics? o.O

It's not really a "tactic". It doesn't take any skill to sit still in a corner with your gun aimed.

thatoneclarinetist said:
LOLwut? all I got was a black question mark with an upsidedown red heart as the dot on my right pectoral please tell me you did not get that cutie mark on your face -_-

It's on what someone would refer to as a flank.
And it's a bit sad, cool but like, what happens when the show is discontinued and the fandom dies out? And you've said it yourself that you've never seen a single episode, Rainbow.

Moon_Moon said:
It's on what someone would refer to as a flank.
And it's a bit sad, cool but like, what happens when the show is discontinued and the fandom dies out? And you've said it yourself that you've never seen a single episode, Rainbow.

"Grammie what is that tattoo from?"

"a fandom of perverts who would wank off to three year old TV show charecters lezing out"

yeah cherised memeorys right there...

Halite said:
Camping isn't superior tactics, it's taking advantage of bad game design.

Dogenzaka said:
It's not really a "tactic". It doesn't take any skill to sit still in a corner with your gun aimed.

It certainly is a superior tactic. Tactics are defined primarily as, 'The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy'. Your objective is securing kills. Thus, setting up a kill zone around a corner (especially if you can have multiple kill zones set up that saturate the area and provide flanking cover) is a form of tactics. Snipers are most commonly deployed in this manner atop a high point that they can sit and wait for hours, even days, to take their shot; In a wartime environment, it would likely be a lot shorter duration between shots taken, and more than likely they would be deployed as support fire for a tactical squad moving into a combat zone. It's only considered 'cheap' because it goes against the accepted norm of run & gun rather than tactical play; this can be seen best with games like World of Tanks where rushing will only get you killed, compared to moving up steadily with your allies and using the terrain to your advantage.

Long story short, yes, it's superior tactics.

elad said:
For example, I'm extremely against individual ownership of lethal weapons.

I'm extremely against you.

123easy said:
Long story short, yes, it's superior tactics.

Yeaaah... it IS a tactic. But we're not actually in a war, we're playing an FPS. The joy in shooters is generally found either in reaction time or thinking ahead and camping invokes neither of those.
It just takes the fun out of it for everyone involved. :[

.... not that I've never been guilty myself. Because being cheap and getting away with it is fun too.

AmericanExistence said:
I'm extremely against you.

Do you live in America? If so, you sound like you voted for Obama.

No, I do not live in the USA :V
And you're allowed to have a different opinion from me. Juuuuust don't discuss it here. Won't end well. >__>

elad said:
Yeaaah... it IS a tactic. But we're not actually in a war, we're playing an FPS. The joy in shooters is generally found either in reaction time or thinking ahead and camping invokes neither of those.

How is finding the best spot to camp from not thinking ahead? Having no reaction time similarily means that you won't get off your shots before you're discovered, or before your target has moved- If you're a long distance camper then you need exceedingly good reflexes to be able to just keep your aim trained on the erratically moving target, let alone hit it. This is why I say that it's just that the accepted norm of the run & gun mindset that ADD kiddies have pushed the genre towards for the most part, relegating tactical players to games that almost exclusively belong to the stealth genre as well such as the earlier Splinter Cells or Deus Ex or SOCOM and the like if they don't want to be looked down upon because they don't just rush in and shoot wildly. Not to say every camper is a tactical player, by any means- just as not every run & gunner is an ADD kid, either. The latter is by far the majority, unfortunately, though.

It just takes the fun out of it for everyone involved. :[

Only for those people who refuse to learn how to adapt their tactics to combat their opponents. When you have similarily tactical players on opposing sides, you get epic games of cat and mouse that go on with the 'campers' trying to trap their enemy by setting up kill lanes for their enemies to walk into that doesn't leave them exposed, while the 'run & gunners' try to outflank the campers and come at them from an angle that they aren't covering and dismantle their web.

123easy said:
Stuff

There's a little thing in all forms of games called sportsmanship. If all you do is sit in a corner with a grenade launcher, people would call you unpsorting because you're barely playing the game, and are just using the cheapest way to get kills or win. I was like that when I first started CoD in CoD4, but I quickly gained skill and learned how not to be a douche. Some people take longer to learn skill, and some people suck forever.

Dogenzaka said:
There's a little thing in all forms of games called sportsmanship. If all you do is sit in a corner with a grenade launcher, people would call you unpsorting because you're barely playing the game, and are just using the cheapest way to get kills or win. I was like that when I first started CoD in CoD4, but I quickly gained skill and learned how not to be a douche. Some people take longer to learn skill, and some people suck forever.

If ALL you do is just sit there, regardless of weapon, you're easy prey for anyone who simply outflanks you. That's poor tactics and is easily killed- This is why people who do just that are the ones that end up dying a lot anyways and not rack up a decent number of kills.

Fair play should NOT ever be considered conformity to established community conduct, but rather as adherance to honour- to personal integrity; just running mindlessly at the opponent is not fair to the person who can think tactically, after all. Moving from position to position, abandoning one site to camp another after awhile, mixing it up so the enemy doesn't know where you are, working with your teammates to funnel them to you or provide covering fire when they retreat through your position- These are all perfectly valid tactics that you can utilize without being dishonourable that are all thrown under the bus of the 'reviled camping' tactics tree, and require far more skill than just running & gunning, which only really requires map knowledge and twitch reflexes, no strategy required (though that doesn't mean you can't combine it with strategy, just that it isn't *required* to be good).

123easy said:
If ALL you do is just sit there, regardless of weapon, you're easy prey for anyone who simply outflanks you. That's poor tactics and is easily killed- This is why people who do just that are the ones that end up dying a lot anyways and not rack up a decent number of kills.

Fair play should NOT ever be considered conformity to established community conduct, but rather as adherance to honour- to personal integrity; just running mindlessly at the opponent is not fair to the person who can think tactically, after all. Moving from position to position, abandoning one site to camp another after awhile, mixing it up so the enemy doesn't know where you are, working with your teammates to funnel them to you or provide covering fire when they retreat through your position- These are all perfectly valid tactics that you can utilize without being dishonourable that are all thrown under the bus of the 'reviled camping' tactics tree, and require far more skill than just running & gunning, which only really requires map knowledge and twitch reflexes, no strategy required (though that doesn't mean you can't combine it with strategy, just that it isn't *required* to be good).

I agree but there is still a reason they call it a noob tube

Cleaning for company. I hate it when people go out of their way to clean their homes top to bottom for me before I come over to visit, especially when I'm only going to be over for an hour or so.

And yet I do the exact same thing, even if they're just coming in to fix something.

Crass_Companion said:
I agree but there is still a reason they call it a noob tube

Oh, don't get me wrong- using the rocket launcher only because you only have to sorta aim to get a kill is nubbish (as in if you only use it because you can't aim), but your choice of weaponry doesn't mean you are definably a noob; A pro could use a rocket launcher to much greater effect, and place his shots just as well as he would with a snipe headshot.

123easy said:
Oh, don't get me wrong- using the rocket launcher only because you only have to sorta aim to get a kill is nubbish (as in if you only use it because you can't aim), but your choice of weaponry doesn't mean you are definably a noob; A pro could use a rocket launcher to much greater effect, and place his shots just as well as he would with a snipe headshot.

I think the biggest problem is as soon as it is possible to camp while being literally braindead, which is probably what Elad meant.
As an example, some shitty fps spawn the entire team in specific intervals at specific points, place yourself in front of it and simply aim at one point and press a button as the timer runs out. Enemy dies without a single chance, depending on how badly designed it is you can even take out the entire team with one shot.

Thankfully, situations like that are almost unheard of in the past 10 years, but were possible on quite a few maps in old Unreal Tournaments.

Back to the big topic, something quite a few people can probably relate to: I hate people who make noises but I love making noises myself.
It is horrible.

Moon_Moon said:
It's on what someone would refer to as a flank.
And it's a bit sad, cool but like, what happens when the show is discontinued and the fandom dies out? And you've said it yourself that you've never seen a single episode, Rainbow.

I'll watch it eventually maybe

thatoneclarinetist said:
"Grammie what is that tattoo from?"

"a fandom of perverts who would wank off to three year old TV show charecters lezing out"

yeah cherised memeorys right there...

At least it's where no one can see it unless I have no pants

Also regarding the camping thing. Bullocks to your sportsmanship. If you are playing to win, it shouldn't matter what tactic works as long as it works and isn't cheating the game. If you are playing to have fun then it shouldn't matter if others are racking up the kills since you aren't keeping score. If you want to win and have fun, well then that might not happen.

When I play clear sky on sadist mode, I practically have to camp to just scrape by, because unlike most games these gays, that game will not reward you or even let you get away with the mindless run in and shoot everything while getting shot.

Perhaps I'm a bit old on my terminology, but to me camping is sitting aiming for the known spawn points and killing people before they have a chance to move after spawn.
I haven't played FPS in quite some time, but this is nor a real life situation.
There's no respawning IRL.

That being said, setting up a kill zone, or a sniper perch where you pick people off from is absolutely a strategy, and is solid tactics to use IRL, and in games.
People who have a problem with that are just bad at breaking down those tactics, and need to practice a bit more.
Unless of course they're using some invisible game walls to set that sort of thing up with more security than exists in real life, which would again be taking advantage of poor game design.

Rainbow_Dash said:
Also regarding the camping thing. Bullocks to your sportsmanship. If you are playing to win, it shouldn't matter what tactic works as long as it works and isn't cheating the game. If you are playing to have fun then it shouldn't matter if others are racking up the kills since you aren't keeping score. If you want to win and have fun, well then that might not happen.

When I play clear sky on sadist mode, I practically have to camp to just scrape by, because unlike most games these gays, that game will not reward you or even let you get away with the mindless run in and shoot everything while getting shot.

You shouldn't need to scrape by though if you've been playing long enough to get good. When I play CoD, I see people who've been playing just as long as I have, and who are still horrible. I don't know what their excuse is, but I won't make any for them. And for CoD, this is a decent example of good play. It's acceptable to sit in a corner for a couple seconds, as long as it's not all you do. Notice how The LMG maniac was shredding, and the noob tuber was sucking.

Halite said:
Perhaps I'm a bit old on my terminology, but to me camping is sitting aiming for the known spawn points and killing people before they have a chance to move after spawn.

You're referring to spawn killing, which is a subset of camping, and can be either a result of an effective spawn trap, or broken spawns.

thatoneclarinetist said:
I have one tattoo and two piercings your move

I've got 5 tattoos and I had 10 piercings before I had to take those out when I joined the Army. :D

As for my hypocrisy, I really hate needles! ...Yet I got 5 tattoos >>

I don't like being trolled on games

But I love trolling on games.

DasaDevil said:
As for my hypocrisy, I really hate needles! ...Yet I got 5 tattoos >>

I hate needles too, and I plan on getting 2 full sleeve tattoos at some point.

Dogenzaka said:
You shouldn't need to scrape by though if you've been playing long enough to get good. When I play CoD, I see people who've been playing just as long as I have, and who are still horrible. I don't know what their excuse is, but I won't make any for them. And for CoD, this is a decent example of good play. It's acceptable to sit in a corner for a couple seconds, as long as it's not all you do. Notice how The LMG maniac was shredding, and the noob tuber was sucking.

You're referring to spawn killing, which is a subset of camping, and can be either a result of an effective spawn trap, or broken spawns.

Sadist mode is extraordinarily difficult, no matter how much you play you always scrape by

For camping though, if the tactic works, why not use it to win? If we invented starships that "spawned" people to the surface, spawn killing would be an very effective tactic too

Rainbow_Dash said:
Sadist mode is extraordinarily difficult, no matter how much you play you always scrape by

For camping though, if the tactic works, why not use it to win? If we invented starships that "spawned" people to the surface, spawn killing would be an very effective tactic too

It's a sport, as such it is supposed to have fair chances for both teams, spawn camping in a way that gives no chances to the camped party is simply unfair.
You generally don't show up to a paintball match with lethal ammunition.

Rainbow_Dash said:
For camping though, if the tactic works, why not use it to win? If we invented starships that "spawned" people to the surface, spawn killing would be an very effective tactic too

Depends on the game. I know that in some CoD games, spawn killing(literally watching someone spawn and killing them before they could even move) was a bannable offense.

Jack_Nova said:
Cleaning for company. I hate it when people go out of their way to clean their homes top to bottom for me before I come over to visit, especially when I'm only going to be over for an hour or so.

And yet I do the exact same thing, even if they're just coming in to fix something.

I do this all the time. Or help with the cleaning... Since my parents do most of it. My mom doesn't like it when someone else cleans something for her because it has to be perfect for her

Spawn killing isn't sporting, and I agree it should be dealt with appropriately. Completely agreed.

Btw, he reason this is all hypocritical is because I usually play the infiltrator type character that sneaks around and stealth kills everyone (or knocks them out; ghost full clear runs of Deus Ex: HR, for example... INCLUDING the downed plane section.)

Camping is a shit tactic. If I get wise to a camper I'll cease my regular 'run around like a maniac' tactic, smoke a bowl, and camp up myself. I can wait. Camping doesn't work if everyone does it, so just don't play along and run out the clock.

What a fun way to play a game.

Tangent said:
Camping is a shit tactic. If I get wise to a camper I'll cease my regular 'run around like a maniac' tactic, smoke a bowl, and camp up myself. I can wait. Camping doesn't work if everyone does it, so just don't play along and run out the clock.

What a fun way to play a game.

For me, it depends. If you've ever played Unreal Tournament 2004, there used to be a game mode called Assault Racing where you essentially fight your way past the enemy team to each sequential objective (usually lever pulls that open up the next tract of map).

Camping the spawn was a big no-no and generally viewed as douchenoobery. But camping an objective from a hard-to-reach spot was widely complained about, but I still feel a legitimate tactic since the defenders would still give the enemy team time to plan attacks that might break up our defense. Sometimes the maps made camping an objective ridiculously easy, but I think it balanced well since the other team would do the same thing once teams switched.

I think as long as there's a way to break up campers, I'm fine with camping as a tactic. If you're camping from a place that near impossible to attack, then that's another story.

Jack_Nova said:
For me, it depends. If you've ever played Unreal Tournament 2004, there used to be a game mode called Assault Racing where you essentially fight your way past the enemy team to each sequential objective (usually lever pulls that open up the next tract of map).

Camping the spawn was a big no-no and generally viewed as douchenoobery. But camping an objective from a hard-to-reach spot was widely complained about, but I still feel a legitimate tactic since the defenders would still give the enemy team time to plan attacks that might break up our defense. Sometimes the maps made camping an objective ridiculously easy, but I think it balanced well since the other team would do the same thing once teams switched.

I think as long as there's a way to break up campers, I'm fine with camping as a tactic. If you're camping from a place that near impossible to attack, then that's another story.

Counterstrike, that one tall building that people would climb up in Assault. That was a poorly designed spot, at first... except it was a wide, flat area right against the map boundary, so a single rocket or grenade up there pretty much meant death- as would the long fall. You could also just come around through the factory and stay in their blind spot at the bottom of the building (unless they exposed themselves to counter-fire) and come up after them.

The people that glitch-hopped up some of the other buildings to then stand on the edge of the map boundary, however.....

DasaDevil said:
I've got 5 tattoos, 10 piercings before I had to take those out when I joined the Army. I really hate needles! ...Yet I got 5 tattoos >>

DAYUM SON!!

Jack_Nova said:
For me, it depends. If you've ever played Unreal Tournament 2004...

I was a Quake Kid, but I understand completely. The thing with those games is that they have oldschool player bases, with honour and dignity.
A lot of us didn't really play to win, just to have fun. Winning was always just a bonus to me.

Tangent said:
I was a Quake Kid, but I understand completely. The thing with those games is that they have oldschool player bases, with honour and dignity.
A lot of us didnt really play to win, just to have fun. Winning was always just a bomus to me. [/quote] When you know the players you're playing with, and are just goofing around, that's completely different from the way games are played now, for the most part. Those were the days... ;_;

123easy said:
When you know the players you're playing with, and are just goofing around, that's completely different from the way games are played now, for the most part. Those were the days... ;_;

You're not kidding. I have a core group of friends I game with, but we've yet to find a game that we play so consistently as UT2004. I loved it when I could log into a game, see someone was online that I knew and get excited because that person was fun to play with. Now it seems like the "musht has" game comes out every month.

I'm waiting patiently for Kerbal Space Program to bring out multiplayer. The world can kiss my ass goodbye when that happens. :D

Jack_Nova said:
For me, it depends. If you've ever played Unreal Tournament 2004, there used to be a game mode called Assault Racing where you essentially fight your way past the enemy team to each sequential objective (usually lever pulls that open up the next tract of map).

Don't even get me fucking started on how awesome Assault Racing was. The time I spent on the BIG Clan server was the most fun i've ever had with video games. Sure, camping the spawn was frowned upon, but that doesn't mean we didn't just camp a little further out. Assault Racing was a great time for anyone playing it.

Title: Things We're Hypocritical About
Actual discussion: is camping in-game a legitimate and honorable tactic?
Very off-topic this forum is! I don't actually care. I learned before that if a thread on e621 adopts a particular narrative, then that narrative gets pursued until finality or exhaustion.

I don't agree with the frame of the camping discussion at all, but I wonder if that's because everyone else is using games with low time-to-kill and shallow defense and evasion mechanics as reference. First, I have to be blunt: low time-to-kill and ineffective evasion mechanics (read: overwhelming majority of modern FPSs) greatly reduce the window, and therefore potential and differentiation, for dynamic and skillful play. This really narrows the behavior and perception of camping to near-binary states when the act can or should be performed quite fluidly. Intention and execution, which the average player struggles to identify in fast-paced gameplay, ultimately validate or invalidate the tactic and not mere binary states. Probably too abstract an idea...

'Camping' in FPSs should be defined as "waiting in a highly defensive position for enemies to enter a pre-defined, highly vulnerable position, thus maximizing the camper's chances of surviving an engagement with enemies in the vulnerable position." Also, spawncamping and spawnkilling are semantically different when considering fully mobile spawnkillers. Furthermore, map control through pick-ups and blocked and predicted spawn points can further maximize successful camping but is not innately spawnkilling. Lastly, spawnraping is a murkier, more divisive issue, but it generally indicates poor game design or the inevitable conclusion of largely imbalanced teams.

To compare two types of camping, I think the most despised form of camping involves habitual, dedicated camping where the camper's first and only instinct upon spawning is to reach some high-traffic corner or defensive elevation and lie in wait of easier prey. This really is a thoughtless and suboptimal approach, unless the camper is impotent otherwise, in which case they will not grow and overcome their core weaknesses as a player (self-esteem conundrum?). I prefer direct confrontation to the limit of one's abilities followed by tactical, improvised maneuvering, which may involve impromptu camping, to decisively win (or lose) engagements. If a skilled player opts for the former mode of play, then they are not playing nor contributing to their full potential because, in contrast, they will regularly have a greater impact on the flow of major engagements in the vanguard than as a lookout or gimmicky ambush.

Finally, to address the core issues, camping can be a valid tactic or poor strategy depending on each occurrence's unique circumstances, which equally involves both players' awareness but much less so their skill. Awareness, and the resulting ability to make informed decisions, will often allow players to overcome skill gaps and equalize superior positioning, if not altogether predict and outplay enemies. Nonetheless, camping is always a legitimate option in terms of fairness, unless it involves shenanigans like glitching or flagrant abuse of gameplay mechanics. Here we must distinguish tangible, mechanics-bound fairness from the perceived emotional unfairness of failing to overcome an inferior position. The conflation of these two distinct types of fairness is probably at the heart of much of this debate.

TL;DR Camping is a legitimate tactic, although not always the best, and any feelings of unfairness can point to personal inadequacy or suggest larger design/balance issues.

What a post. :/

Jack_Nova said:
Now it seems like the "musht has" game comes out every month.

This. I can't imagine shelling out new game money every time someone calls something a 'killer app' like it means anything anymore. If nearly every new game that comes out is the apparent best one, then whats the point in trying to keep up with a demographic that's so over-pandered to that they don't even know what they want anymore?

NotMeNotYou said:
It's a sport, as such it is supposed to have fair chances for both teams, spawn camping in a way that gives no chances to the camped party is simply unfair.
You generally don't show up to a paintball match with lethal ammunition.

If both sides can spawn kill, then it is still equal opportunity for each to do it and therefor is just as fair. The other team can spawn kill to and even if that ruins the game, it is still fair and a viable tactic for success.

Showing up to a paintball game with live ammunition would be like joining a game server with invincibility on. It is something that was never originally intended for and has given one side a clear and unfair advantage over the other. If both paintball teams showed up with live rounds, it would be considered fair even though it breaks the rules. If spawn killing could be done IRL, we would definitely use it, regardless of it being fair or sportsmanlike, and if you want to simulate the use of effective tactics in warfare in a simulated environment, then spawn killing is an effective tactic, albeit a rude one

Some starwars battlefront server operators do not allow the use of force pulling your enemy into you then killing them with your lightsaber because they find it "unfair" but both sides can do it and it's done in the movies and games. If both sides have equal access to the same tactic, then it's fair. I personally do not like multiplayer shooter games because of rude antics like this ruining the fun of the game, but I certainly can't call it unfair

I hate guns on the grounds that America people abuse the right to have weapons.

Yet I own several swords and have the knowledge to use them properly.

I would like to reiterate, spawn killing even being possible is just bad game design.
Having set "spawn points" in anything multiplayer is not just stupid, but in modern programming/coding it's just lazy.
Creating a dynamic spawning system that altered the place where you spawn based on the current play field, so that you'd be inserted into a safe position would be possible, and realistic.
When you enter a battlefield, you do so with scouting and intelligence, it may not be 100% perfect, but chances are you aren't going to just pop up into the middle of a fire fight.

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
I hate guns on the grounds that America people abuse the right to have weapons.

Yet I own several swords and have the knowledge to use them properly.

Yeah, America is clearly the example to use for abuse of guns.
There aren't any worse countries out there for gun abuse than the USA.

Halite said:
I would like to reiterate, spawn killing even being possible is just bad game design.
Having set "spawn points" in anything multiplayer is not just stupid, but in modern programming/coding it's just lazy.
Creating a dynamic spawning system that altered the place where you spawn based on the current play field, so that you'd be inserted into a safe position would be possible, and realistic.
When you enter a battlefield, you do so with scouting and intelligence, it may not be 100% perfect, but chances are you aren't going to just pop up into the middle of a fire fight.

D-Day.

Yeah, America is clearly the example to use for abuse of guns.
There aren't any worse countries out there for gun abuse than the USA.

Actually curious- what country has worse gun abuse than the USA? Not including the egregious example of the war crimes its soldiers have committed, obviously, else I don't think anyone else can win.

123easy said:
Actually curious- what country has worse gun abuse than the USA? Not including the egregious example of the war crimes its soldiers have committed, obviously, else I don't think anyone else can win.

There's a decent handful, but I'll just go with Honduras.

If we could hook up breathalyzers to all guns I'm pretty sure gun based offences and accidents would take a drastic plummet. To bad that's dumb as hell

Crass_Companion said:
If we could hook up breathalyzers to all guns I'm pretty sure gun based offences and accidents would take a drastic plummet. To bad that's dumb as hell

Nah, easier to tell everyone that guns have breathalyzers now.
Just put the barrel in your mouth, blow, and pull the trigger to arm the gun.

This would cause a huge spike in gun related deaths for about a month, then they'd drop to about 0.

Halite said:
Nah, easier to tell everyone that guns have breathalyzers now.
Just put the barrel in your mouth, blow, and pull the trigger to arm the gun.

This would cause a huge spike in gun related deaths for about a month, then they'd drop to about 0.

Don't underestimate the influx of new stupidity.

When people sleep or get up really late (3 to 8 Am/Pm)

(which, as you might assume, I just did :/ )