So I have a rough outline of a world, and an initial story set in that world.
I am considering turning it into a full length novel.

It would be high fantasy, completely fantasy world, supernatural creatures, magic, etc.
Target audience would be high school age and older.

My current thought is to create this novel, turn it into an ebook and release it for free.
If it is reasonably popular, I would then attempt a kickstarter to fund a series extending from the first novel.

Thoughts?
Interest(despite this overly general description)?

Also, if I put together a draft of a few chapters, would people here be interested in reading it over and offering feedback?

Yeah! Me! :D

Also, can I help produce it?

If you have the means and the drive, do it. You'd regret if you didn't, if nothing else.

You seem to have the right idea about even planning and distribution. I say go for it :P

Edit: I could proofread as well I suppose :o

Ryuzaki_Izawa said:
Yeah! Me! :D

Also, can I help produce it?

Initially I'm just going to put it together on my own.
Everything beyond that really will depend on how good it is, and how much interest it generates.
Some sort of partnerships to help me do what needs done is a definite possibility in the future, but at present I just don't have enough done to even consider specifics of that sort of thing.

Nice, wouldn't mind looking through it too. :3

As an aspiring novelist myself, never work for free. You can set the price low, but you definitely want to get yourself an editor. While anyone can be an editor, the high quality ones are really expensive.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
As an aspiring novelist myself, never work for free. You can set the price low, but you definitely want to get yourself an editor. While anyone can be an editor, the high quality ones are really expensive.

While somewhat reluctant to work on something so time consuming as a novel for free, it seems to be a workable model for a lot of creative activities in today's digital world.
Musicians, and comedians post videos for free on youtube, which gains them a fan base that will then pay for shows etc.
Podcasts frequently provide free content to build a fan base before offering some monetized form of the content.
Even in our own community, starting artists frequently offer free art, take requests, etc. to hone their craft before ever taking pay for a commission.
It's kind of the drug dealer business model, the first taste is free, then hopefully I get enough people hooked and coming back to pay for more.

To be honest, I don't know how good I will be at writing, I never have really done it in any seriousness.
In school I always thought I was awful at writing, it was the only part of English class I was crap at.
In school though, I always was writing what someone else wanted written, in a form that they chose.
I am hoping that because this is my idea, in a form(high fantasy) that I truly love and care about that I will be able to create a good story.

I really can't afford any help at all editor wise, so I'm hoping to crowdsource it through anyone who wants to help out.

If my first attempt turns out well, and people really like it, then I hope to be able to monetize the effort into a series of novels, first through Kickstarter, as I mentioned, then if I generate enough interest/popularity I may catch the attention of a publisher and be able to move into a more traditional model of producing my work.

At present, that's thinking way ahead of things, I barely have a rough outline in my head that I'm working on getting down in text now.

Halite said:
While somewhat reluctant to work on something so time consuming as a novel for free, it seems to be a workable model for a lot of creative activities in today's digital world.
Musicians, and comedians post videos for free on youtube, which gains them a fan base that will then pay for shows etc.
Podcasts frequently provide free content to build a fan base before offering some monetized form of the content.
Even in our own community, starting artists frequently offer free art, take requests, etc. to hone their craft before ever taking pay for a commission.
It's kind of the drug dealer business model, the first taste is free, then hopefully I get enough people hooked and coming back to pay for more.

To be honest, I don't know how good I will be at writing, I never have really done it in any seriousness.
In school I always thought I was awful at writing, it was the only part of English class I was crap at.
In school though, I always was writing what someone else wanted written, in a form that they chose.
I am hoping that because this is my idea, in a form(high fantasy) that I truly love and care about that I will be able to create a good story.

I really can't afford any help at all editor wise, so I'm hoping to crowdsource it through anyone who wants to help out.

If my first attempt turns out well, and people really like it, then I hope to be able to monetize the effort into a series of novels, first through Kickstarter, as I mentioned, then if I generate enough interest/popularity I may catch the attention of a publisher and be able to move into a more traditional model of producing my work.

At present, that's thinking way ahead of things, I barely have a rough outline in my head that I'm working on getting down in text now.

You have some really good points. Try this: you have your idea, your world. Try some short stories first, fanfic, or some blurbs and put that up for free. See what people think.

There is this massive story called Eye of the World by Robert Jordan, who passed before finishing the series. It is being finished by a guy named Brandon Sanderson, who was some no-name guy whose short stories were of interest to Robert Jordan. Now that he is getting one of the biggest fantasy stories to a close, he gets to work on some of his own original ideas. This is beneficial because now editors and publishers will chop up less of his story and be more inclined to let his edit go through.

Can it have sparkly vampires and werewolves in it?

But on a serious note with the Kickstarter thing.
You need to gather a pretty large fanbase to make it worth the time, money, and effort needed to make this book.
I wouldn't recommend self publishing though, although there are rare occasions where there is success, most self-published novels sit on the bottom of the amazon book shelf rotting away.

Moon_Moon said:
Can it have sparkly vampires and werewolves in it?

No, at present no plans for any vampires or werewolves, sparkly or not.

But on a serious note with the Kickstarter thing.
You need to gather a pretty large fanbase to make it worth the time, money, and effort needed to make this book.
I wouldn't recommend self publishing though, although there are rare occasions where there is success, most self-published novels sit on the bottom of the amazon book shelf rotting away.

Problem is, I have 0 confidence that trying to convince a publisher that this random new guy with a transcript is worth taking a chance on.
The only person I trust to push my book forward and into public view is myself.

If it's good enough, all I need is to get a handful of people to read a free book, which ought to be reasonably easy.
From there, they'd join the effort to get their friends to read the book(again assuming it's good enough).
Then, keep pushing, and hopefully enough friends, of friends, of friends(etc.) will be interested to build a fan base large enough to fund further books.

If it's not good enough to do that, I don't think it would be good enough to publish traditionally, and I doubt a publish would think so either.

I've run into a bit of a conundrum in my plot.

Need some advice.
My main character is an orphan, who has lived in the wild on his own for about 20 years, as the prologue/back story.
So, makes no sense for him to be able to talk, no civilization or anyone to talk to for that long.
No big deal there, but he has to interact with the other characters when the story begins.
He's discovered in the wild by a character that's capable of casting spells, more than powerful enough to give him the knowledge of language and speech.
It's a bit convenient seeming, but I think reasonable in the plot.

Here's my problem, it seems too drastic to go straight from "can't talk" to "eloquent".
At the same time I don't want my main character to seem like an idiot, so I'm not sure I want him to just speak like a cave man or something either.

Would it take you out of the story too much to have him able to talk like a normal person just by magic?
Or am I better off reworking the story, maybe have him occasionally coming into contact with travelers or traders or some such?

A talisman or charm from the spellcaster that functions as a translator might be feasible, rather than just a spell. Even if your main character can only grunt or whatever, the charm would translate, maybe imperfectly at times, lending some humor.

edidaf said:
A talisman or charm from the spellcaster that functions as a translator might be feasible, rather than just a spell. Even if your main character can only grunt or whatever, the charm would translate, maybe imperfectly at times, lending some humor.

Hmm, it's more the dialog itself that I'm having some issue with.
I want to keep it short enough to to make sense for someone who hasn't spoken for 20 years, but not so short that it sounds like he's dumb, if that makes sense?

As for humor, I don't know if I'm going to have any really comedy in the book.
I'd like to, I enjoy the fantasy/humor combo in books.
Humor is just a whole lot harder to write than a story that's simply dramatic, and if done poorly it can kill the story.
If I do add humor, the main character is definitely not going to be the funny one, it would hurt the story itself.
He might make a good straight man though, being isolated for most of his life he wouldn't understand humor very well.

The translating charm was all I could readily think of to explain the sudden ability to communicate. Also, in the humor part,I wasn't implying he'd be telling jokes, just that the charm wouldn't always translate exactly what was intended, leading to misunderstanding (which, occasionally, can be funny) or not matching his actions.
Sorry, if I'm not giving you good ideas, but maybe by eliminating bad ones, you can get closer to the good ones.

edidaf said:
The translating charm was all I could readily think of to explain the sudden ability to communicate. Also, in the humor part,I wasn't implying he'd be telling jokes, just that the charm wouldn't always translate exactly what was intended, leading to misunderstanding (which, occasionally, can be funny) or not matching his actions.
Sorry, if I'm not giving you good ideas, but maybe by eliminating bad ones, you can get closer to the good ones.

Oh, no, I genuinely appreciate the thoughts.
I think the setting and plot just don't lend themselves to humor very well, less than I like really I do like comedy :P

I'll definitely see if I can add some humor in with some less major characters.

Ya, I'd imagine straight up "a wizard did it" to talk might be a little off putting to some. The artifact idea is fun since being mages it's not that wierd an idea and they may already use something similar for communication with other things that do not speak English (I dunno how fantasy the world is) :P

It all depends on how the whole thing is delivered I guess. It's hard to say without knowing more :P

Another question for you guys.
My novel is going to be written in the 3rd person, just feels better for fantasy, and it's more comfortable for me.

That being said, I want to do just the prologue in 1st person, from the view of the main character, but much younger.

Opinions on having a perspective shift like that just for the first chapter?

whatever you choose just remember keep your artistic integrate close to your heart

Theclarinetist said:
whatever you choose just remember keep your artistic integrate close to your heart

For sure, that's one of the other advantages to self publishing.
That being said, I do want to make the book as attractive to as many people as I can, and that kind of shift, especially right at the start, I worry that it might turn some people off.

I suppose I can just give it a try, and see what people think of it, I can always rewrite the prologue into 3rd person if it's bad.

As long as the shift back is obvious, I think it's a really neat idea. Gets the reader more personal with the main guy while you are introducing him :o

I'm sure that the style you are most comfortable with is going to give better results than if you need to force a style. Sometimes you just need to start, and as you progress, you find a flow that just feels right. It can mean multiple restarts, just to get the overall feel to be smooth, instead of ending up with something that has the impression of being pieced together.
I guess what I mean to say is, once you get in a ways, you might find your work going differently than you had planned at the beginning.

Hmm, swear words or no?

They don't bother me at all when used appropriately, but I don't want to offend readers.
It is supposed to be High School/College+ aged material though, probably no big deal to have swearing.

Halite said:
Hmm, swear words or no?

They don't bother me at all when used appropriately, but I don't want to offend readers.
It is supposed to be High School/College+ aged material though, probably no big deal to have swearing.

"It's fucking magic, bitch! Now, put that damn spell to do shit!"

Yeh, sounds about right! :P

Depends on the character type. The more crass and uncouth, the more freedom to swear, the more respectable, better grammar and restricted vocabulary.

Huh, I totally wrote through the swear word spot I was worrying about, and didn't put the swear word in.
Completely unintentionally too, just forgot about it.

That group of readers has one of the biggest amount of scared mothers banning books. I would avoid swears unless its really poignant :P

EDF, don't appreciate you calling an author like Brandon Sanderson "no-name" :P He's not as prolific as say RA Salvatore, but he's still decently well known in Fantasy circles prior to being approached for finishing the Wheel of Time.

Halite, for the speech I'd actually recommend looking into Jean M. Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear series of books. She does a rather good job about showcasing the way that grunts, sounds, body language, and such are used in a non-speech society, and the complications that arise from it. It's a bit harlequin-novel-y, though, but I definitely think it's still worth it to glean the idea from.

As for the idea of writing for free then putting a price to it for a kickstarter or something- Take a read of Worm, here: http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/1-1/ the author did just that. Once donations were requested, he put up a specific amount to get a bonus chapter written, and the more bonus chapters set to be written, the higher the amount needed for the next, until the number of bonus chapters slowed down some. He had about 11 bonus chapters set at one time, and the amount for another at the time was something like $1000. It's definitely doable, but the author's said it was something like the hundredth story concept that he wrote out with that particular seed of an idea before he felt confident enough to start it up.

123easy said:
...
Halite, for the speech I'd actually recommend looking into Jean M. Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear series of books. She does a rather good job about showcasing the way that grunts, sounds, body language, and such are used in a non-speech society, and the complications that arise from it. It's a bit harlequin-novel-y, though, but I definitely think it's still worth it to glean the idea from.

As for the idea of writing for free then putting a price to it for a kickstarter or something- Take a read of Worm, here: http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/1-1/ the author did just that. Once donations were requested, he put up a specific amount to get a bonus chapter written, and the more bonus chapters set to be written, the higher the amount needed for the next, until the number of bonus chapters slowed down some. He had about 11 bonus chapters set at one time, and the amount for another at the time was something like $1000. It's definitely doable, but the author's said it was something like the hundredth story concept that he wrote out with that particular seed of an idea before he felt confident enough to start it up.

Hmm, that looks a bit different from my aim.
It's a serial with chapters instead of separate novels that I'm aiming for.
Definitely shows that the "get fans, then write more funded by that fan base" is a possible model for writing though.

Not sure how I'm going to handle stretch goals though to be honest.
Can't really do bonus chapters like that one did, I could maybe to some sort of prologue short story thing for one or something?
Eh, getting way ahead of myself again.

Goal #1: write 1st novel.

Everything else can wait.
Worst case, I have a novel that maybe a few people enjoy, and I got the idea out of my head, and onto paper.
That's genuinely a huge sense of accomplishment for me by itself.
Just today I knocked out about 4500 words of rough draft.
I hope to do more than that per day, if I can manage 7000 a day I'll have a full length novel (draft) in a little over a week.

Hopefully it goes better than utter failure, but if not then I won't be all that hurt.

Edit: Oh for the speech thing, I think I managed to handle it reasonably.
In the prologue, he's capable of speaking, certainly is old enough for that.
The lack of speech is more from isolation and forgetting over 20 years (long time to speak to no one).
I'll start him out as fairly quiet and short in his dialogue, but grow more and more verbose as the story progresses and he becomes comfortable with the other characters.

So.

Tangent said:
So.

How much dicks in this? :P

Basically none.
Sorry to disappoint.

I'm not aiming for one of those romance novels disguised by a handful of dragons to be a "fantasy" novel.

Not to say that there won't be some romance at some point.
I have no specific plans for a romantic sub-plot, but at some point it may be relevant to the overall story and worth the time/effort to figure out.

It's tough for me to do that sort of thing though.
I'm writing from my own personal voice for this, and I am a confirmed bachelor.
Haven't even been on a date for nearly 10 years now.
Not easy to write romance with that personal background.

I could write a whole book on why it's better not to get involved with anyone romantically though :P Kidding, mostly, I could, but have no interest or intent to do so.

Halite said:
Basically none.
Sorry to disappoint.

Heh, I'm just razzing you.

Hell, if I could read Eragon I could read just about anything. Might help to be 14 again though.

Tangent said:
Heh, I'm just razzing you.

Hell, if I could read Eragon I could read just about anything. Might help to be 14 again though.

Eragon wasn't bad, and it was written by a 15 year old.
Well, 15 at the time he wrote it.
He's actually about 1 year older than me.

Edit: The movie was fucking awful though. I doubt that had anything to do with the author of the books though.

I'd still recommend the Jean M. Auel series for how well it communicates that condition. The main female character had to go through that herself, though is not quite as old. It is set in the age of the neanderthal though, and has some sexy-time stuff.

Halite said:
Eragon wasn't bad, and it was written by a 15 year old.

I think that was one of the main draws, was that he was pretty much my age. Never saw the movie though.

Admittedly my tastes have changed somewhat.

Halite said:
So I have a rough outline of a world, and an initial story set in that world.
I am considering turning it into a full length novel.

It would be high fantasy, completely fantasy world, supernatural creatures, magic, etc.
Target audience would be high school age and older.

My current thought is to create this novel, turn it into an ebook and release it for free.
If it is reasonably popular, I would then attempt a kickstarter to fund a series extending from the first novel.

Thoughts?
Interest(despite this overly general description)?

Also, if I put together a draft of a few chapters, would people here be interested in reading it over and offering feedback?

I say write the novel.

+1 for getting an editor. I have some threshold where a small amount of errors greatly sabotage my potential reading enjoyment and lower my expectations of an author, perhaps unfairly. If I'm going to seriously devote time, concentration, and goodwill into an unknown author or work, then I want it to be an act of reciprocity with the author. In words less backwards, I have difficulty respecting a work that the author did not seem to duly respect. Though, I've all but put reading all works back on the back-burner. >.>

On the topic of getting into writing, I think it makes sense to start with shorter stories to shore up your writer's acumen before setting your sights on full-bodied works such as novels. Don't just write; write well! (But that's my preferred approach to everything lol). Unless, of course, you don't think you can shelve your current plans and return to them with the same enthusiasm. In that case, I say you should follow the path where you can muster and put to work the most vigor.

Oh... there's a part of me that desperately wants to write, or, more specifically, wants to communicate some profound, difficult ideas while still captivating an audience, but that part of me is also too coy about the idea to do anything serious. I'm hypercritical about amateur fiction, so I probably never will create something of my own. Which is all the more reason why I genuinely hope you do proceed with your work and flourish.

Oh, I can spellcheck it for you. Make sure everything is spelled or worded right.... And make sure it sounds coherent. But then again, at the moment I'm dealing with final exams. So that creates a problem.....

I'm more concerned about writing quality than grammar or spelling.
I've always been a bit of a spelling/grammar nerd, so I've got that pretty well covered.
English class was actually one of my best classes, except for the actual writing part of it :P

I've actually got the prologue, and chapter one completed.
Well, a rough draft of them at least.
I'm going back through the part I wrote yesterday, I wanted to add a bit more introduction onto the beginning of the chapter I was writing, so I have to rework the rest of the chapter so it makes sense with the part I added.

I hope to have it into a clean draft form in a couple hours.

Would anyone be interested in reading the prologue and chapter one once I'm happy with it, so I can get a couple preliminary opinions on things?

Edit: It's sitting at about 5500 words for them both combined, in case your curious about the length. Might hit 6000 by the time I finish with reworking yesterday's work.

Halite said:
I'm more concerned about writing quality than grammar or spelling.
I've always been a bit of a spelling/grammar nerd, so I've got that pretty well covered.
English class was actually one of my best classes, except for the actual writing part of it :P

I've actually got the prologue, and chapter one completed.
Well, a rough draft of them at least.
I'm going back through the part I wrote yesterday, I wanted to add a bit more introduction onto the beginning of the chapter I was writing, so I have to rework the rest of the chapter so it makes sense with the part I added.

I hope to have it into a clean draft form in a couple hours.

Would anyone be interested in reading the prologue and chapter one once I'm happy with it, so I can get a couple preliminary opinions on things?

Edit: It's sitting at about 5500 words for them both combined, in case your curious about the length. Might hit 6000 by the time I finish with reworking yesterday's work.

Given your writing in the forums, I can support that you generally prefer to spell and write properly without needing much correction- but having someone to go over them just in case for little mistakes you might not catch (lord knows the number of times I've missed one that's as simple as two swapped letters).

I'd be willing to give it a going-over if you want.

123easy said:
Given your writing in the forums, I can support that you generally prefer to spell and write properly without needing much correction- but having someone to go over them just in case for little mistakes you might not catch (lord knows the number of times I've missed one that's as simple as two swapped letters).

I'd be willing to give it a going-over if you want.

Oh for sure, I certainly won't object to any grammar or spelling issues that anyone finds.

In particular I've found out that I am really bad with its/it's, I know the difference, but when I'm typing I just fail to do it properly.
I've had to go through and double check that problem like 3 times already :P

I'm going to PM you about the first chapter/prologue thing, I don't want to just throw it up here for the whole internet to see.

Halite said:
Oh for sure, I certainly won't object to any grammar or spelling issues that anyone finds.

In particular I've found out that I am really bad with its/it's, I know the difference, but when I'm typing I just fail to do it properly.
I've had to go through and double check that problem like 3 times already :P

I'm going to PM you about the first chapter/prologue thing, I don't want to just throw it up here for the whole internet to see.

I'd like to see it as well, I'd be probably reading it at the average level, I don't see books too deeply if you are going for a symbolic thing, so I'll help with the grammar and what not.

Moon_Moon said:
I'd like to see it as well, I'd be probably reading it at the average level, I don't see books too deeply if you are going for a symbolic thing, so I'll help with the grammar and what not.

Nah, not all that symbolic.
Just looking for any feedback you might have in general.
Particularly if you do/don't find it enjoyable, and if it makes you want to read more.

I am a writer, but haven't published anything. I write a lot of horror, mystery, and realistic fiction. I have written some fantasy stuff, however. My main tip is to keep the story flowing, and don't tarry too long on minor subjects. A romantic subplot is almost required, but don't make it too explicit. Don't rush action, and definitely don't compensate for rushed action scenes by having a ton of them. I know you may not like it, but a good character has to die. It makes the story interesting, and not a Disney movie. I have a lot of ideas, just PM me if you need them.

Brentashun said:
I am a writer, but haven't published anything. I write a lot of horror, mystery, and realistic fiction. I have written some fantasy stuff, however. My main tip is to keep the story flowing, and don't tarry too long on minor subjects. A romantic subplot is almost required, but don't make it too explicit. Don't rush action, and definitely don't compensate for rushed action scenes by having a ton of them. I know you may not like it, but a good character has to die. It makes the story interesting, and not a Disney movie. I have a lot of ideas, just PM me if you need them.

I'm not so sure that "a good character has to die" thing is true. Yes it does add drama and interest. However, no offense to anyone but the death in SAO's first few episodes just threw me off it. That's my personal opinion though so take it how you will. If you must place death you have to do it well. Don't over do it. By that I mean don't make it pointless, horribly timed or completely disappointing. Welp thats my two cents.

At present, no good guys dying.
Although, in the prologue the main characters father is dragged off, and never returns, so the assumption is that he died.

No one would think that it's a Disney movie.
In the prologue the protagonist at age 5 kills a rabbit with his bare hands.
Also, he's a demon.

As for romance, at present in the first book the only female character I have planned is going to be a good bit younger(12 Years old-ish) than the main character(just under 25 years old).
It's possible that there might be a romance there in a future book, that's somewhere around 8-10 years in the future but I doubt it.
Still, I'm not saying no romance, but I highly doubt that I will have any in the first book.

Halite said:
Also, he's a demon.

Now I can't help but to think of this novel. It's a very good read (if you haven't read it yet).

Also, please do consider sending me a preview. I love good stories and so far it sounds interesting.

Halite said:
At present, no good guys dying.
Although, in the prologue the main characters father is dragged off, and never returns, so the assumption is that he died.

No one would think that it's a Disney movie.
In the prologue the protagonist at age 5 kills a rabbit with his bare hands.
Also, he's a demon.

As for romance, at present in the first book the only female character I have planned is going to be a good bit younger(12 Years old-ish) than the main character(just under 25 years old).
It's possible that there might be a romance there in a future book, that's somewhere around 8-10 years in the future but I doubt it.
Still, I'm not saying no romance, but I highly doubt that I will have any in the first book.

Before thinking of other books, get the first one done (I have done that a lot). Another tip: use some humor. No matter dark it is, a small tidbit of comedic relief is good. It worked in the Last of Us. Also, give the characters an identity without just giving them a name. Make them have immersive personalities. Also, create a wide range of characters. Different types of people really helps, as it increases the amount of readers who will have a relatable character (which is great for the reader). Also make the audience actually feel for the character. Also, will the main character have internal conflict? That always works well in fiction books in my expereince.