So I live in the United States, and I am going to assume most other users are from the same nation as well. However, there are a number of other national users here that use the site and other stuff. The only foreign (for me) experiences come mostly in the form of vacation and on the internet, although I did take French language in high school (Parlez-vous francais?). In almost every vacation or internet site I visit, English is present in one manner or another. Other than that, I spend most of my time (obviously) in the US, an English speaking country.

I'm interested in knowing exactly how influential or common is the English language in other nations around the world. Is it spoken vastly in your nation? Does it share another language in your nation's official languages? Is it barely influental at all?

And for user's who live in English-predominant nations, what's your view on the subject? Do you think other nations and cultures are becomming accustmoned to English, or are they not? Is it a good or bad thing?

Cheers.

I don't care if they speak it in their home nations, but when you're on American soil you need to speak English, and speak it well. It bothers me to no end when someone barely speaks the language of the country they're in then get furious when you tell them they need to sit down and learn it to a higher comprehension and speaking level. Other nations and cultures are adapting English as far as I'm aware, and I can only think of it as a neutral thing, neither good nor bad.

Well, I speak English like a sir mostly because I live near the US border and some jobs require it (though I don't have one), besides it's in schools program.

I hate to break it to you, but English is not "America's language".
The USA intentionally does not have any official national language.
This is why you can receive any government document, in any language(upon request and if they don't typically carry the language a translation fee).

If you come to America you're free to speak whatever language you want, and not speak whatever language you want.

America! Fuck Yeah!

Hammie said:
I hate to break it to you, but English is not "America's language".
The USA intentionally does not have any official national language.
This is why you can receive any government document, in any language(upon request and if they don't typically carry the language a translation fee).

If you come to America you're free to speak whatever language you want, and not speak whatever language you want.

America! Fuck Yeah!

Most of the PEOPLE speak English. I wasn't talking in an official context.

But you were demanding that anyone who comes here speak english.
A demand that has no basis in reality, we are a country of freedom, not close-mindedness.

Hammie said:
But you were demanding that anyone who comes here speak english.
A demand that has no basis in reality, we are a country of freedom, not close-mindedness.

Do you not know what an opinion is?

English is the United States predominant language, stated or not. English is also the most difficult language to learn and use fluently, so I don't blame people who have difficulties speaking it when they didn't learn it from birth.

Rainbow_Slash said:
English is the United States predominant language, stated or not. English is also the most difficult language to learn and use fluently, so I don't blame people who have difficulties speaking it when they didn't learn it from birth.

Difficult? Try learning Japanese or other asian language.
But really, in the US most people speak English, so it's considered official.

xLuna said:
Difficult? Try learning Japanese or other asian language.
But really, in the US most people speak English, so it's considered official.

The asian languages follow more simplistic phonetics and syntax. Just think about how many words in the english language break the rules "just cuz" and how confusing it is to flip around word tense to make a sentence.

Screw American English, British English all the way man. B|

The last time I checked the Defense Language Institute, English was rated as a Level 2 language in terms of difficulty. It's harder than Level 1 Spanish, about equal to Level 2 German, but nowhere near as difficult as Level 4 Mandarin or Arabic.

Having clarified that, I think it's extraordinarily arrogant to demand that everyone in America speak English because they're "on American soil." First, it ignores (either ignorantly or conveniently) the fact that the first people on this continent didn't speak English. Second, it's derisive to other cultures. And third, it's just disrespectful.

I'm not trying to be politically correct. I'm just tired of this hillbilly mindset that you can't be a good Murrikan if you're not a monolingual isolationist. If it's only an opinion, then you can't force it on everyone else.

Wow people get mad over opinions. I don't care that I'm wrong, quit trying to convince me. OP asked for opinions, not fucking facts.

what's you view on the subject?

Golly gee I wonder what that means[/b]

If they speak *well* so that you or I can understand them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4ahh8Uafo

Spoken, English is very easy, as is any roman/greek based language. As it comes to spelling and grammar, English is the most inconsistent. But everyone knows the hardest language that exists is pony. Or Equestrish/ponese as some scholars have coined it.

If you come to America and decide to do business in an American store, don't be surprised if you're refused service because you can't speak english. Learn the language before you go to the country, or hire a full time translator.

Blaziken said:
I don't care that I'm wrong, quit trying to convince me.

Then you have my apologies. I just can't wrap my brain around this mindset.

I'm sorry I posted facts that counter your opinion?

Should I have simply stated a contrary opinion and started an argument?

Blaziken said:
Golly gee I wonder what that means[/b]

Thanks for pointing out that missing letter.

Honestly, this isn't what I was expecting when I made the forum topic, although I should have known that an innocent question would change into a raging debate. Let's get back on focus, please.

For those that live in America, have you ever been in a foreign experience (vacation, internet, whatever) where you notice you are able to interact because English is used? Is it the opposite?

I guess another way of saying it is: Is English taking over the world?

Rainbow_Slash said:
The asian languages follow more simplistic phonetics and syntax. Just think about how many words in the english language break the rules "just cuz" and how confusing it is to flip around word tense to make a sentence.

Well, we can has Englisch. As for the asian language, I was just kiddin'

Mario583 said:
If they speak *well* so that you or I can understand them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4ahh8Uafo

what?

Blaziken said:
I don't care that I'm wrong, quit trying to convince me

You see? That's what I mean. As far as I understand and the other people understand me, I'm fine

Furry_Fanatic said:
I guess another way of saying it is: Is English taking over the world?

Not really, maybe probably, since most people consider it easy, became international

It's commonly used as a trade language, largely because it's used heavily in the US and for a long time we were an international trade leader.

Thankfully since it's already heavily used as a trade language, it's unlikely to change.
People don't like change.

Hammie: we are a country of freedom, not close-mindedness.

Off topic but to ruin your bubble...
More like we where. Where closer to China due to the stupid anti this or that acts our governments putting into place. They even have our ISPs spying on us now. That's something China does to its citizens....

were, and we're
not where, or where...

As to your opinion, you are paranoid, there are too many people online for the government to spy on anyone who isn't actually suspected of committing/planning some crime

It's a simple question of manpower, especially with us cutting gov't jobs like crazy now.

英語被高估了

中国人吃狗肉

Jag gillar poppar majs.

Hammie said:
中国人吃狗肉

確亦即

titaniachkt said:
英語被高估了

Hammie said:
中国人吃狗肉

titaniachkt said:
確亦即

¿que?

English was a very influential language, then Pony squashed it

xLuna said:
¿que?

They said "English is overrated"
I replied "Chinese people eat dog"
They replied "Indeed that's so"

Rainbow_Slash said:
English was a very influential language, then Pony squashed it

Which is a variation of English

Hammie said:
They said "English is overrated"
I replied "Chinese people eat dog"
They replied "Indeed that's so"

Oh, thanks!

当然！

Генераторы панели старых, как мой диван

xLuna said:
Which is a variation of English

Pony is the only language that need not be spoken to be understood
Example: post #222396

Raiden_Gekkou said:
If you come to America and decide to do business in an American store, don't be surprised if you're refused service because you can't speak english. Learn the language before you go to the country, or hire a full time translator.

This. Companies don't need to support different languages. And besides, most LEGAL citizens can speak English. As far as I'm concerned, English is unofficially the official language of America.

We'll learn other languages if we want to. Those who don't speak English, that's too darn bad. Go back to a country that can understand you. Enough of this mindless "we have to support other languages whether we like it or not"

ich kann deutsch

The only problem with using software to translate is that it does a poor job on the syntax.

hg3300 said:
Enough of this mindless "we have to support other languages whether we like it or not"

Respectfully, I don't think that's the argument being made, or that it's mindless.

DobiesHot said:
Respectfully, I don't think that's the argument being made, or that it's mindless.

I'm just saying we shouldn't have to learn other languages just because of ignorant foreigners who refuse to learn English. And now I have to wonder why they would make it hard on themselves as not as many individuals in the US will understand them as they would English speakers.

hg3300 said:
I'm just saying we shouldn't have to learn other languages just because of ignorant foreigners who refuse to learn English. And now I have to wonder why they would make it hard on themselves as not as many individuals in the US will understand them as they would English speakers.

Uhh, no one said you had to learn a thing.
I in fact said the exact opposite.

Everyone, you, them, everyone has the right to speak what languages they wish, and no speak the languages they don't want to.

That's the thing about freedom, other people practicing it doesn't automatically mean you can't too.

As for making it hard for themselves, that's their choice.
But when it comes to the government, the founding fathers specifically decided not to have a national language, so the government as it was created is required to accommodate any language within reason.

Rainbow_Slash said:
Pony is the only language that need not be spoken to be understood

Speaking of languages, I have this

hg3300 said:
I'm just saying we shouldn't have to learn other languages just because of ignorant foreigners who refuse to learn English. And now I have to wonder why they would make it hard on themselves as not as many individuals in the US will understand them as they would English speakers.

We're not forced to it. As far as I know, in the US, they teach Spanish (correct me if I'm wrong). Mostly people here don't want to learn english because, and I quote from a friend, "why are they teaching us english, it's not that we're going to use it anyway".

hg3300 said:
I'm just saying we shouldn't have to learn other languages just because of ignorant foreigners who refuse to learn English. And now I have to wonder why they would make it hard on themselves as not as many individuals in the US will understand them as they would English speakers.

Learning a language isn't an easy task. It's important to keep in mind that you don't know what sort of resources a person has available to them. Taking a class is expensive! And would require many classes to aquire a basic fluency. Buy a book? That does work, but books still do cost money, especially those that include audio or software to help teach. Learn on the internet! That requires a computer, which is an even more significant investment... It's easiest to learn a language with someone teaching you, but that's not always a possiblity for people. ANd no matter what, it IS a significant time investment. and in the mean time... what? you speak a few words of a language. You're learning more, but every time you try to speak to someone in english, they use words you don't understand, and then they get annoyed with you because you can't communicate in a way they feel is good enough. You learn really quickly the words for "ignorant foreigner"... and you stop reaching out to try and use your english with people. Because what the hell, you'll still get it wrong. and even if you're going good, they still stalk off grumbling about how you should learn to speak english like a proper person if you're going to be living here in this country. Never mind that back home, your life was in danger every day, you worked for pennies, and moving to america is still one of the best thigns to happen to you even though almost everyone here hates you, at least MOST of them don't threaten to get violent if you shyly speak in your native language because you lack the condifence to continue on in English and have your rudimentary skills mocked.

.... that said, I do hate when someone clearly has the opinion of "i don't need to learn the local language. They can speak mine" -- I'm very ashamed of the time I spent traveling around europe grunting in English at people hoping they'd understand me. BUt at least I was vactioning. I know some Murricans who've moved abroad and can't be bothered to learn the local language.

xLuna said:
Speaking of languages, I have this

We're not forced to it. As far as I know, in the US, they teach Spanish (correct me if I'm wrong). Mostly people here don't want to learn english because, and I quote from a friend, "why are they teaching us english, it's not that we're going to use it anyway".

Well your friend must not be planning on going to any English-speaking countries, then. It's a pretty broadly-used language. Mainly as a secondary language in some countries, but that easily makes it more universal.

Of course, we teach Spanish here because of the Mexicans creeping over our borders daily, we also teach other languages including German and French (French was sadly eliminated from my High School's curriculum recently by the ignorant administration)

ok... ive been debating this very topic for yeeeears now so im gonna go ahead and deposit my two cents on this the way ive seen it unfolding in my travels.

First of all, I do more or less feel that english was pretty much the main language spoken in the usa and had been for a few hundred years or so, and with that in mind and knowing its a free country with no real native language jotted down anywhere i feel its a tradition that had been pretty solidly understood for quite some time. but then there started an onslaught of immigration of people that for some reason or another decided they didnt need to bother with the native cultures and language of the usa they moved to... and it continued happening. now we have places where if you DONT speak another language your gonna be about as lost as a fish in outer space because NOTHING is in english, and these places are scattered nationwide. I understand that the united states was formed by immigrants and we do our best to help those in need but when a native born cant read subway directions to get to where they need to go because that particular part of the city is all immigrants and nothing is in english... i see a problem. Do i think helping those in need is a good thing? yup. Do i think that americans have to adapt and change because the mass amounts of immigrants have ultimately forced out english in places for the simple fact of refusing to adapt to the very society that took them in and attempted to help them? fuck no.

my point of view? americans shouldnt have to know atleast one other language to be able to function in a country that was for hundreds of years based around the english language just because the people we took into our country decided to keep their language and not bother with the language we speak forcing americans to adapt to them.

IvoryWolf said:
my point of view? americans shouldnt have to know atleast one other language to be able to function in a country that was for hundreds of years based around the english language just because the people we took into our country decided to keep their language and not bother with the language we speak forcing americans to adapt to them.

You'd be disappointed throughout the entire history of our country, then:

• My stepdad still has Swedish-language newspapers from when his family immigrated to the Minneapolis area (circa 1900-ish).
• My grandma has similar newspapers in German from Chicago, same era.
• Downtown Seattle used to be a hub for Japanese immigrants and trade, until World War 2. In fact, the city keeps pictures of the historical market on display.
• Chinatowns? Chinatowns. Still exist in several major cities, and has for more than a century. Seriously, try navigating them without any sense of the language.
• New York City used to have strictly Italian neighborhoods. It still may, they just don't seem to appear in popular media as frequently anymore.
• Ever heard of Little Cuba?
• The vast majority of this country, until about 250 years ago, spoke various native American languages, some of which are still spoken today (and one of which helped us beat the Japanese in WW2).
• Florida and California were explored by the Spanish and spoke Spanish before they spoke English.
• Louisiana: The French, and spoke French before English.

This country has pretty much never spoken one language. True, English has been a dominant language, overall, for some time. But, it's really ironic that of all countries it is the United States that is most known for its mono-linguistic, xenophobic society, when we're an ethnic mutt, bred from a great many cultures. Or, stated more poetically, we're a melting pot of cultures.

Edit: Also, don't move to Quebec. The people there will mock you if you don't speak French.

ikdind said:
You'd be disappointed throughout the entire history of our country, then:

• My stepdad still has Swedish-language newspapers from when his family immigrated to the Minneapolis area (circa 1900-ish).
• My grandma has similar newspapers in German from Chicago, same era.
• Downtown Seattle used to be a hub for Japanese immigrants and trade, until World War 2. In fact, the city keeps pictures of the historical market on display.
• Chinatowns? Chinatowns. Still exist in several major cities, and has for more than a century. Seriously, try navigating them without any sense of the language.
• New York City used to have strictly Italian neighborhoods. It still may, they just don't seem to appear in popular media as frequently anymore.
• Ever heard of Little Cuba?
• The vast majority of this country, until about 250 years ago, spoke various native American languages, some of which are still spoken today (and one of which helped us beat the Japanese in WW2).
• Florida and California were explored by the Spanish and spoke Spanish before they spoke English.
• Louisiana: The French, and spoke French before English.

this more or less enforces my point though, there are places in america where an american wouldnt have a clue because of the simple fact that english just doesnt exist there, and for a country that is dominated by the language... just doesnt seem right. as you aptly put, unless you know chinese... if you ever end up lost in chinatown, good luck.

AbsebaroKoon said:
post #29872
I don't have time to read
what you says, but did anyways

SnowWolf is good at saying Stuff. Lots of stuff :)

I guess part of my thought on this is.. if you go and travel around the world, you'll often find signs written in english to help out. I think a lot of European countries teach multiple languages in school, including english (My friend hosted a German exchange student for a year -- she spoke something like 5 languages.) ...

I guess... why are we so stubbornly insistent on speaking a single language? We murricans have 3 neighbors. One speaks english, mostly, with a bit of french. One speaks a form of Spanish.

Seems strange to have so much opposition to learning those two languages to even some degree, when my friend spoke 5, including Latin.

ikdind said:
You'd be disappointed throughout the entire history of our country, then:

• My stepdad still has Swedish-language newspapers from when his family immigrated to the Minneapolis area (circa 1900-ish).
• My grandma has similar newspapers in German from Chicago, same era.
• Downtown Seattle used to be a hub for Japanese immigrants and trade, until World War 2. In fact, the city keeps pictures of the historical market on display.
• Chinatowns? Chinatowns. Still exist in several major cities, and has for more than a century. Seriously, try navigating them without any sense of the language.
• New York City used to have strictly Italian neighborhoods. It still may, they just don't seem to appear in popular media as frequently anymore.
• Ever heard of Little Cuba?
• The vast majority of this country, until about 250 years ago, spoke various native American languages, some of which are still spoken today (and one of which helped us beat the Japanese in WW2).
• Florida and California were explored by the Spanish and spoke Spanish before they spoke English.
• Louisiana: The French, and spoke French before English.

This country has pretty much never spoken one language. True, English has been a dominant language, overall, for some time. But, it's really ironic that of all countries it is the United States that is most known for its mono-linguistic, xenophobic society, when we're an ethnic mutt, bred from a great many cultures. Or, stated more poetically, we're a melting pot of cultures.

Edit: Also, don't move to Quebec. The people there will mock you if you don't speak French.

THANK YOU!! I am so tired of this actively ignorant bullsh!t argument that "this is America and everyone should speak our language" when English only became the dominant language here because we jammed it down other cultures' throats. We literally physically abused children for speaking languages other than English. Then we want to act like it's all good now that most of our own culture is too lazy to confront their own ignorance and do a little studying to remember? Open a book, open your mind.

In before the first lazy creep asks if I'm mad, bro. (Answer: yes. It bugs the heck out of me.)

DobiesHot said:
In before the first lazy creep asks if I'm mad, bro. (Answer: yes. It bugs the heck out of me.)

hat Wut meine Brüderlein????

null0010 said:
hat Wut meine Brüderlein????

LOL! Thanks for that, Null. ;)

DobiesHot said:
THANK YOU!! I am so tired of this actively ignorant bullsh!t argument that "this is America and everyone should speak our language" when English only became the dominant language here because we jammed it down other cultures' throats. We literally physically abused children for speaking languages other than English. Then we want to act like it's all good now that most of our own culture is too lazy to confront their own ignorance and do a little studying to remember? Open a book, open your mind.

In before the first lazy creep asks if I'm mad, bro. (Answer: yes. It bugs the heck out of me.)

It didn't just happen because English-speaking Americans felt the need to blatantly shove the English language on others. The origin of the US, the Thirteen Colonies, were both under control by the British and, once they gained independence, were under control by English-speaking colonists. The people in charge spoke English, essentially, even though America would be cultrurally diverse from imigrants from places like Europe and Asia. Now, try running a country when everyone can't understand each other. A common language had to be set so the US could be set in motion. English already had a grasp in government, so it slowly and naturally became the standard.

Actually I feel sorry for the people whose native language is English.
There's no pressure for them to learn a foreign language, because they already speak the best language in the world.

Furry_Fanatic said:
A common language had to be set so the US could be set in motion.

There is a difference between having a common language everyone can speak and a culturally imposed language that a minority of overbearing personalities—armed with hubris in lieu of facts—demands everyone speak.

It is also important to realize that this common language wasn't officially "set." It was used as a matter of convenience, but Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and George Washington never aimed a finger at any immigrants and yelled, "You shall speak English or else!"

russia. many people who are "advanced users" know english well enough, so it's not hard to find someone at street who can help, but mostly russian people have no talent for foreign languages.

IvoryWolf said:
this more or less enforces my point though, there are places in america where an american wouldnt have a clue because of the simple fact that english just doesnt exist there, and for a country that is dominated by the language... just doesnt seem right. as you aptly put, unless you know chinese... if you ever end up lost in chinatown, good luck.

No, because your point was that these areas are magically popping up now, when they didn't exist before because we've spoken English forever.

Non-english speaking sections of the united states have existed since day 1 of the united states.

The whole point of not setting a legal official language for the country was to accommodate these groups of people without forcing them to change.

As for choosing one specific language to "set" for government operation, that's a facially faulty assumption.
In Canada they have a representative democracy, and 2 national languages, English and French.
Any member of their government is free to speak in either language, and many only speak one.
Their government functions just fine.

As does NATO, and the UN despite language differences, yes that's not government really but it is a similar situation and setting.

To make a long story short, if you are an american, and you demand someone speak English instead of whatever language they are comfortable with then you are contradicting the founding fathers of this country.
You are in fact contradicting one of the ideals upon which this nation was founded.
You are acting Un-American.

This argument is retarded as all hells.

Blaziken said:
This argument is retarded as all hells.

No, no. If you don't have a good answer to someone's point, at least don't bury the discussion name calling.

Hammie said:
To make a long story short, if you are an american, and you demand someone speak English instead of whatever language they are comfortable with then you are contradicting the founding fathers of this country.
You are in fact contradicting one of the ideals upon which this nation was founded.
You are acting Un-American.

So, if we have an unofficial set language in this country that those who are born here follow, and we expect others who want to interact with us on our own soil to be courteous enough to learn that language if they want anything from us(our words, our time, our business), we're acting un-American?

Sure thing bro. All I know, is that I want to go to Japan someday, but I damn well won't go there without knowing how to converse with those that live there. It's rude to go to another country and expect people there to speak your language just because you can't speak theirs. You are a guest there, so act like it.

Except there's also US citizens that don't speak English, as of the last census 3% of them.

You're also saying it's ok to go up to those people, in their home country, and tell them that speaking their language is wrong and that they should speak your language.

This country was founded partly on the ideal that the majority doesn't have a right to oppress the minority.

By insisting that all people in America speak English you are oppressing the minority of people who are 100% legal citizens, but don't speak English(again 3% of the US population).

Uh, no, they don't.

The needs of the many very specifically do not outweigh the needs of the few.

Edit: he deleted his post, you can guess what he said from my post.

Hammie said:
Except there's also US citizens that don't speak English, as of the last census 3% of them.

You're also saying it's ok to go up to those people, in their home country, and tell them that speaking their language is wrong and that they should speak your language.

Lol really? I never said it was wrong, i'm basically saying that they shouldn't expect to be treated like the 97% of the people here that do speak English.

Hammie said:
By insisting that all people in America speak English you are oppressing the minority of people who are 100% legal citizens, but don't speak English(again 3% of the US population).

The needs of the many outweigh the needs the few.

Hammie said:
Uh, no, they don't.

The needs of the many very specifically do not outweigh the needs of the few.

Edit: he deleted his post, you can guess what he said from my post.

I was trying to edit my post, and they kinda do. Would you rather make a better country for 3% of the population, or for 97%? Which seems more logical?

I dunno, do you think slavery was right?
Do you think handicapped people shouldn't have reserved parking spots?
Do you think that putting US citizens in detainment camps during WW2 was right just because they were of Japanese decent?
Do you think that discriminating against minorities when choosing who to hire is right?

All these are things decried as "needs of the many vs. needs of the few"

Hammie said:
I dunno, do you think slavery was right?

I can't believe that you would actually try and lump slavery in this. Come on dude, slavery is illegal and a violation of basic human rights, in case you didn't know.

Hammie said:
Do you think handicapped people shouldn't have reserved parking spots?

Having handicapped accessible areas isn't a burden to the majority who aren't handicapped.

:Hammie said:
Do you think that putting US citizens in detainment camps during WW2 was right just because they were of Japanese decent?

Detainment camps were like a form of slavery, which I just said is a violation of basic human rights.

Hammie said:
Do you think that discriminating against minorities when choosing who to hire is right?

It's not discrimination to hire someone who speaks the language that most of the customers and employees speak, over the person who doesn't. It's called "being qualified for the job".

Are you even trying to be serious, or are you just dicking around?

But using the argument that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" validates it as an argument for any point that you choose to argue.

Handicapped parking is in fact a burden on the majority that have to walk farther to the store.
A reasonable burden in my opinion, but a burden nonetheless.

Also, you intentionally misunderstood my last question.
I was talking about a minority, not a non-english speaker.
i.e. a US citizen of, let's say asian descent, who speaks perfect english that isn't given a job because they are asian and the hiring party wants to hire a white guy.
White guy that gets hired is of the "many" and gains a benefit.

At the time that they occurred slavery and detainment camps weren't considered a violation of basic human rights, nor were they illegal.
This is largely because at the time it was assumed that oppressing a minority(the few) wasn't wrong if it benefited the majority(the many).

You are using the exact same argument here.

Hammie said:
Handicapped parking is in fact a burden on the majority that have to walk farther to the store.
A reasonable burden in my opinion, but a burden nonetheless.

Walking a few more feet is a burden nontheless? Now I KNOW that you aren't being serious.

Hammie said:
Also, you intentionally misunderstood my last question.
I was talking about a minority, not a non-english speaker.
i.e. a US citizen of, let's say asian descent, who speaks perfect english that isn't given a job because they are asian and the hiring party wants to hire a white guy.
White guy that gets hired is of the "many" and gains a benefit.

We aren't talking about race. This whole thread is about English vs non-English, so I didn't misunderstand anything. You even said yourself that there are Americans who don't speak English.

Hammie said:
At the time that they occurred slavery and detainment camps weren't considered a violation of basic human rights, nor were they illegal.
This is largely because at the time it was assumed that oppressing a minority(the few) wasn't wrong if it benefited the majority(the many).

You said "at the time". You're trying to make that relevant in discussion now, when that time is gone.

What exactly are you trying to convey? Because I'm not getting it.

I'm telling you that the needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the few.

Hammie said:
I'm telling you that the needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the few.

Wait, you're done? Please tell me you aren't? I'm kinda having fun with this.

Very well, I'll give you a modern argument against your point.

Do you think that we should tax the wealthiest 1% and give that money to the 99% of the rest of us?

Hammie said:
Very well, I'll give you a modern argument against your point.

Do you think that we should tax the wealthiest 1% and give that money to the 99% of the rest of us?

Taxing someone harder because they're better at their job doesn't seem fair to me.

Ah, but it's the needs of the many being benefited at the cost of the needs of the few.

Also, the CEO of my company is not 1000 times better at his job than I am, but that's a whole different argument.

Hammie said:
Ah, but it's the needs of the many being benefited at the cost of the needs of the few.

Also, the CEO of my company is not 1000 times better at his job than I am, but that's a whole different argument.

While it would help many, America is(or used to be) a civilized society. Should gold medalist olympic runners be handicapped for a race, just so that the non-gold medalists can have a better chance against someone who trained longer and harder? You're trying to turn my words against me, and it isn't working.

Why should someone who worked his ass off to be as successful as he is have to lose chunks of his money to support people who buy crack and crack accessories? People who are on welfare for legitimate reasons could benefit from it, just like they could benefit from some money management counseling and a better job, but I wouldn't support money going to the many people on welfare who abuse the system everyday, just so they can ride the glass dick more than they could before.

All of this is coming from someone who can't find a job and has 11 cents in his bank account.

And why should 3% of the legal citizens of the US be forced to speak a language they don't even know, just for the sake of the rest of us?

The point is an argument is only truly valid if it's valid for all things it can be applied to.

Hammie said:
And why should 3% of the legal citizens of the US be forced to speak a language they don't even know, just for the sake of the rest of us?

The point is an argument is only truly valid if it's valid for all things it can be applied to.

You obviously haven't read any of this. Do you know what exceptions are? No one is forcing them to do anything, they just shouldn't expect the same privileges that are standard to those that speak the language of the majority. I said this before.

Depriving people of any rights because they don't speak the language of the majority is wrong.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

There's no "except if they don't speak English" in there.