Neitsuke said:
I don't want to create a new "personal" topic about this same issue here, so I'm going to reply instead after being lazy for 2-3 days.

I just got affected by this whole irrelevancy for two pictures the same day. I have absolutely no issue with e621 finding some kind of work/characters not relevant enough, but these cases here don't exactly make sense at all :

post #1086750 ( source ) has been deleted for being irrelevant, even thought there's a tag for food_creature and the same kind of picture got approved at the same time ( post #1093872 ) and mine just recently (was extremely scared to have it deleted)

post #1087693 ( source ) got deleted for being irrelevant even thought plantpenetrator 's anthro plants pictures always have been completely fine to be uploaded here before, but not this one picture because...? I really don't know why, is it because Screwroot isn't popular enough compared to him maybe ?

Again, I don't have a problem at all about stuff being labeled as not furry enough, but I do wish this rule would be more black and white and have this sort of situation happen less often

That second one looks human until you look at the hands. The first one, though, I think the janitor's just getting confused after a few things got pointed out to other mods. Have you tried contacting them about it?

Just got my post deleted for irrelevancy...

So, what makes the Smurfs image I uploaded "Irrelevant to site" as opposed to these images you uploaded?

e621.net/post/show/544446/5_fingers-bent_over-big_breasts-big_butt-biting_li
(humanoid)

e621.net/post/show/907887/balls-beard-big_penis-ear_piercing-erection-facial
(blue humanoid)

e621.net/post/show/1026421/areola-beard-breasts-cowgirl_position-demon-duo-er
(blue humanoid)

e621.net/post/show/1094628/big_breasts-breasts-clothing-female-fluffyblarg-hu
(human)

Seems like you've uploaded images of human characters or very-near-human characters. And there are plenty of Smurfs images on the site:
e621.net/post/index/1/smurfs
Some of them with Smurfs depicted as extremely humanlike...

So it looks like your decision to delete my post was arbitrary.

cantregister said:
Just got my post deleted for irrelevancy...

They look like alternate color humans in this image for obvious reasons.

Or, they still look human, and not enough like anything else.

Siral_Exan said:
Or, they still look human, and not enough like anything else.

As opposed to these two images that were uploaded by the person who deleted my image?
e621.net/post/show/544446/5_fingers-bent_over-big_breasts-big_butt-biting_li
e621.net/post/show/1094628/big_breasts-breasts-clothing-female-fluffyblarg-hu
First one: human with no non-human characteristics except skin color and eye color.
Second one: human wearing a mask.

Pretty arbitrary to delete an image of Smurfs while uploading these two.

Well, it is safe to assume that you do not know the difference between human and humanoid, now. But, to clarify: exact, 1 to 1, humans are not allowed, nor are color swaps of humans. Humanoids have features that make them look not human, even if it is one thing like ears.

In the recent picture, the shygirl only has their legs actually visible, which is usually not the case to the sprite, and you otherwise cannot see details that make them human. For your latter, I cannot argue for it because it is too old to argue about: mistakes in the past do not get deleted, even if the rules say so now. Otherwise you would be punishing people who did nothing wrong back then.

But if you think highlighting their mistakes will bring back your post, it won't... What can, but I do not guarantee, bring back your post is asking them personally. And if they don't, then they will probably give you advice as to what to upload next time.

The deleted post #1091863 depicted blue humans and was deleted correctly. However cantregister is correct that post #1094628 should be deleted as well. Remember it's TWYS and what we see is a human with a mask not a humanoid.

leomole said:
cantregister is correct that post #1094628 should be deleted as well.

There is selective enforcement; I invite you to report it and see what happens. In fact shygirl images are almost always "human with a mask" and shantae +not_furry images are almost always "human (and nothing else)" and they don't get deleted. Siral Exan demonstrates how these mental gymnastics are performed:

• a human with a mask is not human but a humanoid
• a human who's a genie is not human but a humanoid
• a human who's six inches tall and blue is not a humanoid but a human

Arbitrary.

Well, because I doubted myself and seemed to be wrong, that I went to look up for reasons why shygirl has been deleted, and the results, truthfully, shock me: only two images were flagged for irrelevant, and only one without evidence of being irrelevant for other reasons. So, while in a grey area, they don't seem to be against the rules...

For the genie, I reiterate that I will not argue over an age rule. The definition of insanity is as follows: repeating the (exact) same experiment, but expecting different results; I'm not about to go insane by trying to convince you that it is OK because of the age rule.

But I already believed that staff members were breaking the rules of uploading, no names thrown because it is older than this and not just irrelevant. But, because of a previous discussion ending in (paraphrasing) "let people make minor mistakes", I let it go. So, maybe you should let it go before this gets out of hand...

If you do continue this argument, then don't expect me to be here... all you'll be doing is rubbing salt in your (metaphoric) wound willingly. As I said, go contact them about this: they might pour hydrogen peroxide in the wound, but they'll give you a bandaid afterward.

As Siral said, anything that was already on our site when the rules changed will not be removed unless it becomes a United States law. A "Half Genie" that looks perfectly human like Shantae will be deleted if it is uploaded now.

Shyguys and Shygals are sort of like an "Elf" case. Like pointed ears make something humanoid, the full mask does, too. Stick a Smurf into a mask like that and they're relevant. (If they aren't, contact a staff member)

Furrin_Gok said:
Like pointed ears make something humanoid, the full mask does, too.

Pointed ears turn a human into a humanoid because it's an anatomical change (see Uploading Guidelines#humans). But a human with a mask is still human and should be deleted. Again from the Uploading Guidelines: "costumes, clothes, accessories, etc. do not make a human relevant"

cantregister I encourage you to message whoever approved post #1094628 and explain why it should be deleted. If they disagree you can ask Lead Admin NotMeNotYou for clarification. Please be polite, remember we're all volunteers here and people make mistakes. And don't bring up posts from before 2015, the guidelines changed recently (forum #193236) and don't currently apply to old posts.

i'll let you in on a secret guys, aside from low image quality, the ONLY thing that decides if an on-the-fence image is approved or not is an admin saying "i like this" and clicking approve

that's the way it was when i was staff, that's the way it will always be

that's why the rules for it are so vague, that's why there are so many approved images that "shouldn't" be, that's why there is so much apparent hypocrisy in the approval process

it's not actually hypocrisy, it's just that the relevancy rules are only there to look pretty for users

they don't actually mean anything, with the exception of like, "no images with only completely normal humans in it"

i want to make it clear that i do not now, nor have i ever disapproved of this "policy." writing an actual comprehensive ruleset for relevancy check that would cover all situations is essentially impossible

also, inb4 "you don't work here anymore" or similar deflection

null0010 said:
i'll let you in on a secret guys, aside from low image quality, the ONLY thing that decides if an on-the-fence image is approved or not is an admin saying "i like this" and clicking approve

that's the way it was when i was staff, that's the way it will always be

that's why the rules for it are so vague, that's why there are so many approved images that "shouldn't" be, that's why there is so much apparent hypocrisy in the approval process

It's not a secret, which is why it should be clear-cut. If Smurfs without a tail aren't exempt, then human girls wearing a mask shouldn't be exempt either. The line should be clear: is there non-human anatomy? Yes - humanoid. No - human. Make it clear-cut so it's not up to arbitrary janitor decisions.

null0010 said:
they don't actually mean anything, with the exception of like, "no images with only completely normal humans in it"

The no humans rule is not an exception, it is cruise control for "things I don't like." It's not like ferals are objectively any more relevant than humans.

null0010 said:
i'll let you in on a secret guys, aside from low image quality, the ONLY thing that decides if an on-the-fence image is approved or not is an admin saying "i like this" and clicking approve

that's the way it was when i was staff, that's the way it will always be

that's why the rules for it are so vague, that's why there are so many approved images that "shouldn't" be, that's why there is so much apparent hypocrisy in the approval process

it's not actually hypocrisy, it's just that the relevancy rules are only there to look pretty for users

they don't actually mean anything, with the exception of like, "no images with only completely normal humans in it"

i want to make it clear that i do not now, nor have i ever disapproved of this "policy." writing an actual comprehensive ruleset for relevancy check that would cover all situations is essentially impossible

also, inb4 "you don't work here anymore" or similar deflection

Yes and no. We typically ask other staff for their opinions on posts still on-the-fence about whether or not we should keep it and why. It's then more determined by how many other staff may be immediately present, though we tend to keep the issue open before action for at least a couple hours. We do try to be objective with decisions, but with art there will still be a lot of subjectivity.

Also, keep in mind that any image posted by a janitor is automatically approved, which may make the situation look worse than it is. Either way I'll bring up this specific matter to the rest.

Ratte said:
We typically ask other staff for their opinions on posts still on-the-fence about whether or not we should keep it and why. It's then more determined by how many other staff may be immediately present, though we tend to keep the issue open before action for at least a couple hours. We do try to be objective with decisions, but with art there will still be a lot of subjectivity.

I don't disagree at all with this.

Have the staff reached a consensus on the issue of post #1094628? I still believe that, lacking evidence to the contrary, we consider it a human with a shyguy_mask which should not have been approved under the Uploading Guidelines ("costumes, clothes, accessories, etc. do not make a human relevant").

Related discussion on why we don't assume it's a fox underneath the mask: forum #221148.

leomole said:
Have the staff reached a consensus on the issue of post #1094628? I still believe that, lacking evidence to the contrary, we consider it a human with a shyguy_mask which should not have been approved under the Uploading Guidelines ("costumes, clothes, accessories, etc. do not make a human relevant").

Related discussion on why we don't assume it's a fox underneath the mask: forum #221148.

Yes, if something looks like accessory instead of anatomy, it will get removed as irrelevant human only art, this includes that post you linked as it looks significantly like mask on human.

Many posts have been already deleted as irrelevant for this reason but I'm not sure how to handle already approved posts with this. At least with all the future posts this applies.

leomole said:
Have the staff reached a consensus on the issue of post #1094628?

Most of the staff doesn't have time to follow the forums, so it'd be better to directly contact the Janitor who approved it. And if you're unsatisfied with their decision, Nimmy is the one who makes the final calls. Not sure if he's seen that one.

Mario69 said:
I'm not sure how to handle already approved posts with this.

Nimmy told me in forum #193236 that for irrelevant posts I should contact the janitor for the post or an admin.

Genjar said:
Most of the staff doesn't have time to follow the forums, so it'd be better to directly contact the Janitor who approved it.

Okay I'll message the uploader and janitor for post #1094628.

Looking through the 'shygirl' tag I'm kinda... not seeing many that don't look like 'humans in masks'. Most are drawn with straight-up human bodies, human skin-tone, and straps on the mask. I'll admit though I'm probably not into the Mario franchise enough to understand them.

regsmutt said:
Looking through the 'shygirl' tag I'm kinda... not seeing many that don't look like 'humans in masks'.

Many are grandfathered -- or reposts of grandfathered posts. Which are kept by default, regardless of the current rules.

Though if someone's consistently approving human-only posts that aren't grandfathered, then that's something that the admins should be alerted about. You can do that by reporting whoever's approving those posts. ...just be careful not to make false reports.

I come here for both furries, elves, robots, and anything else. If they remove elves or robots, I'd probably leave after downloading all the past elf and robot pictures. Just saying. Some people come here for stuff other than fur. A lot of people just don't post on the forums. Most of those who do post on the forums like just furry stuff, but I'll bet you all my money that elves and robots are still popular.

HypnoBitch said:
I come here for both furries, elves, robots, and anything else. If they remove elves or robots, I'd probably leave after downloading all the past elf and robot pictures. Just saying. Some people come here for stuff other than fur. A lot of people just don't post on the forums. Most of those who do post on the forums like just furry stuff, but I'll bet you all my money that elves and robots are still popular.

There are tons of archive sites for those other materials already.

I myself have no interest in either. Thus why I'm here and not on Gelbooru or whatever.

FoxFourOhFour said:
There are tons of archive sites for those other materials already.

I myself have no interest in either. Thus why I'm here and not on Gelbooru or whatever.

Gelbooru's tagging system sucks. It's so confusing and not at all straightforward like we have here.

E621 is unique in those regards.

Furrin_Gok said:
Gelbooru's tagging system sucks. It's so confusing and not at all straightforward like we have here.

E621 is unique in those regards.

The only thing Gelbooru has going for it is no tag limit in searches. Danbooru has more or less the same tagging system yet gives non-members a two tag search limit.