We've had some problems with the circumcision-related tags. And by circumcision, I mean the act of circumcision rather than the finished product. Truth is there isn't really a standardized way to handle these, but I'd like to address that in this thread.

What do we need?

• A simple reliable way to blacklist them, preferably through a single tag. It's useful to have an easy way to blacklist a broad category like this that many people prefer not to see.
• A way to search for them. People who want to search for this should have common terms fall into their appropriate categories.
• A straightforward, intuitive path that ensures that the most important parts end up getting tagged. plastibell and clitoridectomy are definitely specific, but aren't necessarily going to be helpful for tagging.

_______________________________________

Proposal 1:

• genital_mutilation
• castration
• circumcision
• pussy_circumcision <- female_circumcision
• penis_circumcision/penile_circumcision
• (penectomy)^†

^† This implication wouldn't work since it's being used both for the act of removing the penis and the finished product (sort of like having castration and eunuch all in one tag). As of right now, there isn't a replacement name for these.

This mostly relies on tags that already exist, but it has a few suggestions for potential new tags and one minor name change.

• Benefits: Simple and the changes are less involved. It removes a gendered tag for one with potentially more broad scope (despite it being the more common name in real life).
• Drawbacks: It still leaves out other things related to genital-related pain that people may want to search/blacklist. There are also cases that include circumcision-related activities, but not necessarily stuff that actually show "mutilation" (post #644557).

_______________________________________

Proposal 2:

• genital_torture <- genital_mutilation?
• castration
• circumcision
• pussy_circumcision <- female_circumcision
• penis_circumcision/penile_circumcision
• cock_and_ball_torture
• ballbusting
• (penectomy)^†

^† This implication wouldn't work. See note on Proposal 1

This is similar to Proposal 1, but it is focused on using a different tag name which could have a broader scope.

• Benefits: Since it isn't held back by the word "mutilation", we might be able to cover more tags with this than we could before. It also simplifies blacklisting as it's very likely that many people will want to blacklist both of these at the same time.
• Drawbacks: The term "genital_torture" is somewhat loaded, but it’s kind of a stand-in right now. Some other names I’ve thought of are genital_abuse and genital_sadism, but I'm open to suggestions.

_______________________________________

I'm personally leaning towards proposal 2, but I would like to look for alternatives for the tag genital_mutilation. If anyone has any ideas here, I'd love to hear them.

Semi-related: The cut -> circumcised alias has been deleted due to it causing a lot of preventable mistags over the years. If you tag this using the alias, please start using the actual tag name instead. If you're like me and can never remember how to spell circumcised, we might be able to work with a different shorthand version to use for tagging (think alias cut_penis -> circumcised).

unpleasant topic :/ think i'd go with proposal 2 though.

parasprite said:
We've had some problems with the circumcision-related tags. And by circumcision, I mean the act of circumcision rather than the finished product.

Huh? Don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.
Circumcision - The act of well, circumcision.
Circumcised - A penis which has been circumcised.

parasprite said:
If you're like me and can never remember how to spell circumcised, we might be able to work with a different shorthand version to use for tagging (think alias cut_penis -> circumcised).

cut_penis would work.

Not a fan of the terms in #2.
Rather than pussy_circumcision it could be clit/clitoris_circumcision.
Penis circumcision sounds alright, another alternative is foreskin_circumcision.

Huh, what is this all about?
Why don't we just use circumcision for both genders? That's the theme and if the people don't like it they blacklist it.
Not familiar with how e621 exactly works, though. :s
We can just merge clitoridectomy / plastibell / female circumcision / and penis_circumcision into -> circumcision

I think that the term genital mutilation is totally inappropriate for this >.>
It's an exaggeration and implies inserting swords into the vagina or cutting the dick off, which misses the topic of circumcision completely.

Peekaboo said:
Huh? Don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.
Circumcision - The act of well, circumcision.
Circumcised - A penis which has been circumcised.
cut_penis would work.

Not a fan of the terms in #2.
Rather than pussy_circumcision it could be clit/clitoris_circumcision.
Penis circumcision sounds alright, another alternative is foreskin_circumcision.

Do you want to add labia_circumcision and such as well?
I think these words would be too specific, after all circumcision is available on both genders. XD
We should just stick with "circumcision" - Done

Vladimirr said:
Why don't we just use circumcision for both genders? That's the theme and if the people don't like it they blacklist it.
We can just merge clitoridectomy / plastibell / female circumcision / and penis_circumcision into -> circumcision

Because that'd restrain people from seeing content that they may want to see, just because there is similar content that they do not want to see.

Aliasing these terms together would be a mistake.
Technically it is genital mutilation, yes.

Peekaboo said:
Huh? Don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.
Circumcision - The act of well, circumcision.
Circumcised - A penis which has been circumcised.

Bad wording. This thread is more about tagging the various types of circumcisions and what that should fall under.

Not a fan of the terms in #2.
Rather than pussy_circumcision it could be clit/clitoris_circumcision.
Penis circumcision sounds alright, another alternative is foreskin_circumcision.

Hmm, the issue with clitoris_circumcision is they do sometimes cut parts of the labia off. I agree that pussy_circumcision sounds really weird though.

Vladimirr said:
Why don't we just use circumcision for both genders? That's the theme and if the people don't like it they blacklist it.
Not familiar with how e621 exactly works, though. :s
We can just merge clitoridectomy / plastibell / female circumcision / and penis_circumcision into -> circumcision

That's kind of what I was thinking, actually. Setting it up so that when someone tags penis_circumcision it automatically adds circumcision. I don't know about the more specific tags but they're probably worth mentioning.

I think that the term genital mutilation is totally inappropriate for this >.>
It's an exaggeration and implies inserting swords into the vagina or cutting the dick off, which misses the topic of circumcision completely.

Hah, I like the visual. It's the closest we have right now though which is why I mentioned it. That's one of the reasons why I'm hoping to find a broader tag. "Mutilation" isn't exactly what we're looking for and is probably too loaded culturally to be used for this.

Peekaboo said:
Because that'd restrain people from seeing content that they may want to see, just because there is similar content that they do not want to see.

Aliasing these terms together would be a mistake.
Technically it is genital mutilation, yes.

we use the euphemism "circumcision" for males for ages.
Why shall females become something special?
clit/labia removal are considered as circumcision. There is no need to make an extra tag for it.
I don't quite understand how people can mistakenly see something that they don't want to see if searched after circumcision. ...

You could add a rating like "strong violence" on inkbunny so that people needn't see graphic stuff

Vladimirr said:
You could add a rating like "strong violence" on inkbunny so that people needn't see graphic stuff

That would be really nice to have, but it's probably a bit out of the scope of this thread.

I will take note of this as I think it's a feature that's worth considering.

Vladimirr said:
we use the euphemism "circumcision" for males for ages.
Why shall females become something special?
clit/labia removal are considered as circumcision. There is no need to make an extra tag for it.
I don't quite understand how people can mistakenly see something that they don't want to see if searched after circumcision. ...

Someone might not mind seeing one sort of circumcision, but would mind seeing a different sort, depending on a variety of factors. Therefore yes, it is relevant to make an extra tag to distinguish between the two.

Keep in mind this isn't necessarily for someone searching circumcision, but for related pictures showing up in all sorts of searches.

Consider a person who has a problem with female circumcision, but not male circumcision. They search "female solo pussy", and happen across female circumcision images. They are not particularly happy about this. So what can they do?

If there is only one tag for both, they can't blacklist just female circumcision effectively, because it would also block male circumcision, which they don't necessarily want to block.

The circumcision tag would still exist - just, the two more specific tags, penis_circumcision and pussy_circumcision would also exist. I fail to see the problem you have with that, and yet I see the problems with not having that in place.

Clawdragons said:
Someone might not mind seeing one sort of circumcision, but would mind seeing a different sort, depending on a variety of factors. Therefore yes, it is relevant to make an extra tag to distinguish between the two.

Keep in mind this isn't necessarily for someone searching circumcision, but for related pictures showing up in all sorts of searches.

Consider a person who has a problem with female circumcision, but not male circumcision. They search "female solo pussy", and happen across female circumcision images. They are not particularly happy about this. So what can they do?

If there is only one tag for both, they can't blacklist just female circumcision effectively, because it would also block male circumcision, which they don't necessarily want to block.

The circumcision tag would still exist - just, the two more specific tags, penis_circumcision and pussy_circumcision would also exist. I fail to see the problem you have with that, and yet I see the problems with not having that in place.

If someone is not okay with seeing female circumcision. They can block "female". XD
That'd be weird if someone would like male circumcision, but not female circumcision. If you are into this stuff, you'll like it on both genders.
If you don't like female circumcision, you wouldn't like females.
=P
Again circumcision is the overall theme, which is sufficient to describe the situation regardless of gender. If you want to distinguish between genders, you would need a differentiation between male and female "torture" as well. Between male and female "masturbation" as well. etc.
See? It's not making sense what you are saying.

I think that penis / pussy circumcision would be too specific. Again the differentiation between the genders are weird and unnecessary.
"Circumcision" describes the theme of it. There is no need to put a hint towards the genders into it, too.

However, I have some tags. clithood removal, clitoral foreskin removal, clitoris removal, labia removal, infibulation.
All these tags are expressing different steps of female circumcision.
We could include these tags and merging them all into -> circumcision

Vladimirr said:
I think that penis / pussy circumcision would be too specific. Again the differentiation between the genders are weird and unnecessary.
"Circumcision" describes the theme of it. There is no need to put a hint towards the genders into it, too.

Alright, let's put male/female circumcision to the side for the moment.

However, I have some tags. clithood removal, clitoral foreskin removal, clitoris removal, labia removal, infibulation.
All these tags are expressing different steps of female circumcision.
We could include these tags and merging them all into -> circumcision

Do you have idea for a tag name that we can merge circumcision, castration, swords into the vagina, etc. into? Not as a replacement (alias) but one that gets automatically added (implication).

parasprite said:
Alright, let's put male/female circumcision to the side for the moment.

Do you have idea for a tag name that we can merge circumcision, castration, swords into the vagina, etc. into? Not as a replacement (alias) but one that gets automatically added (implication).

pain, violence, imminent damage, genital operation, genital modification, genital adjustments, masturbation prevention, listless?

Vladimirr said:
pain, violence, genital operation, genital modification, genital adjustments

I like some of these more than others, but these are definitely worth considering.

listless?

This made me laugh enough to almost spit tea on my keyboard. :P

parasprite said:
I like some of these more than others, but these are definitely worth considering.

This made me laugh enough to almost spit tea on my keyboard. :P

So which are okay?
lol, I just thought about the logical consequences of the operation. :D

Vladimirr said:
So which are okay?

At this point, this thread will wait for a week or so to give everyone a chance to include their opinion. After that, I will post a summary of the final proposal for one last look before putting any aliases/implications through; any additional "cleanup" retagging that needs to be done would most likely be done then.

lol, I just thought about the logical consequences of the operation. :D

ಠ_ಠ (lol)

Vladimirr said:
That'd be weird if someone would like male circumcision, but not female circumcision. If you are into this stuff, you'll like it on both genders.

I'm not sure I agree with that. This is a topic with significant social and religious implications. Many Americans feel that female circumcision is a very negative procedure, for instance, and many do not feel that way about male circumcision. Likewise, for Jews, male circumcision is a very strong ritual, but female circumcision isn't really a thing at all.

If you want to distinguish between genders, you would need a differentiation between male and female "torture" as well. Between male and female "masturbation" as well. etc.

Or maybe between, I don't know, male and female oral sex? Maybe we could have a word for males like... Fellatio? And, and... this just came to me... Cunnilingus for females?

Just trying to point out that such distinctions are far from unprecedented. Just because they both fall under the general theme of "oral" doesn't mean that it's not helpful to distinguish between them.

Clawdragons said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. This is a topic with significant social and religious implications. Many Americans feel that female circumcision is a very negative procedure, for instance, and many do not feel that way about male circumcision. Likewise, for Jews, male circumcision is a very strong ritual, but female circumcision isn't really a thing at all.

Or maybe between, I don't know, male and female oral sex? Maybe we could have a word for males like... Fellatio? And, and... this just came to me... Cunnilingus for females?

Just trying to point out that such distinctions are far from unprecedented. Just because they both fall under the general theme of "oral" doesn't mean that it's not helpful to distinguish between them.

Don't think about reli or social stuff, just about the genitals.
Why would you circumcise one gender only, huh? (I think the cause are those damn feminazis again, protecting just themselves...)
That's biased if you perform male circumcision, you should perform female circumcision as well. I mean it's the same thing.
Reproductive organs remain intact, while sexual pleasure is reduced.
Take Egypt (yes a civilised country) as example. They circumcise both genders without gender bias.
Still it's masturbation regardless of gender.

Vladimirr said:
Don't think about reli or social stuff, just about the genitals.
Why would you circumcise one gender only, huh? (I think the cause are those damn feminazis again, protecting just themselves...)
That's biased if you perform male circumcision, you should perform female circumcision as well. I mean it's the same thing.
Reproductive organs remain intact, while sexual pleasure is reduced.
Take Egypt (yes a civilised country) as example. They circumcise both genders without gender bias.
Still it's masturbation regardless of gender.

We'll still have the broad circumcision tag for both genitals, but there will be the option to also tag it with penis/pussy_circumcision (or whatever the real names end up being).

I've decided to go with proposal 1 since it cleans up the tags without having to move not-exactly-related tags around. I also left penectomy alone since it is mixed with the action and the final product (so to speak).

So I've made the following changes:

• Alias: male_circumcision -> penis_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: penile_circumcision -> penis_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: foreskin_circumcision -> penis_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: female_circumcision -> pussy_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: vaginal_circumcision -> pussy_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: labia_circumcision -> pussy_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: clitoris_circumcision -> pussy_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: clitoral_circumcision -> pussy_circumcision (approved)
• Alias: gelding -> eunuch (approved) - Because I kept forgetting to do this
• Implication: pussy_circumcision -> circumcision (approved)
• Implication: penis_circumcision -> circumcision (approved)
• Implication: circumcision -> genital_mutilation (approved)
• Implication: castration -> genital_mutilation (approved)

Tag Tree:

• genital_mutilation
• castration
• circumcision
• pussy_circumcision
• penis_circumcision