I don't think we'll ever reach equality until people stop focusing on members of their own sex and focusing on equality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZoABBMQ6f4

Cactus said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZoABBMQ6f4

LOL it didn't took 300,000 dollars to do this, also I love how Thunderf00t struggles to keep a straight face through all this

CuteCoughDeath said:
Statistics on rapes
intimate partner violence
the wage gap
absence in any power structures (government, Cooperate boards)

..all seem to disagree with you.

Men comprise more than 50% of the total population, therefor it is simple statistics that they comprise more than 50% of the rape perpetrators. Furthermore, men are generally larger and physically stronger, and lead lives that promote the abilities needed to overpower other people. Women also tend to wear clothing that would physically hinder fighting back or escaping (tight skirts, heels, etc), and all of that leads to them being easier victims. Further YET, it is estimated (admittedly roughly) that fully 99% of all male-victim rapes go unreported. Most of those are male on male, but a statistically relevant number are female on male. So listing this as a cause for feminism is at best shallow and misguided and at worst intentionally disingenuous as literally none of those have a single thing to do with politics (and feminism is 100% politics).

The article linked earlier in this thread even has pretty soundly debunked the "men commit the majority of domestic violence" thing. They do cause the majority of serious injuries and fatalities, yes, but women were overwhelmingly either single-perpetrator (victim didn't strike back) or initial aggressor (threw the first punch). They also overwhelmingly commit these acts over what society would generally consider selfish and/or petty reasons (such as manipulating or coercing their partner) instead of out of anger/rage or passion (the overwhelming reason for males).

Every single study conducted on the wage gap has shown that AS A RULE (which means there are always exceptions but they are just that--exceptions, not the norm) women earn unequal pay because they do less work. They take more time off (by orders of magnitude, regardless of career). They cost the company significantly more in benefits (mainly health insurance). They are, per hour attended, around 20% less productive in the majority of STEM fields and around 30% less productive in middle management (the gap closes to ~1% less productive in upper management/board partner/chief-anything). Further, more than 3/4 of the globe is paid hourly so only 25% of the female population even has the capability of being underpaid compared to a male in the same position working the same number of hours. It is a statistical non-issue.

The absence in the power structure has more to do with "traditional gender roles" than any nefarious scheme to keep women out. Same reason there aren't female trash-truck drivers or female heavy machinery operators, or why the only females you see on a road crew are the flag-person instead of actually doing manual labor. You cannot legislate this out without negatively impacting people of both genders who are already employed (and doubly so males as you would literally have to kick them out to make room for new females).

Mutisija said:
the men's issues are covered by feminism. those issues you listed are caused by patriarchy and feminism is a lot about dealing with the issues caused by patriarchy.

also what i have gathered, MRAs often seem to spend more time trying to put down women and destroy feminism than actually trying to deal with the actual men's right issues.

There is not ONE feminist group, organisation, or movement in the US that will touch a man's issues with a 10-foot pole.
--man raped by woman has to pay child support to that woman
Women's rights/feminist groups will do everything in their power to bleed the man dry (how dare he impregnate someone even if that's exactly what she wanted!), to the point of completely bankrolling the woman's civil and criminal defense.
--men almost never get custody
You think that has anything to do with the patriarchy? HOW? Child custody has been a feminist core principle dating back to the 70's-bra-burners, they lobbied hard for females to always get custody regardless of the circumstances, and they won.
--men are never defended against domestic abuse
There is a feminist lobby group right now that is pushing for women to be able to extend the "insanity clause" for defense against domestic violence to include "he didn't give me enough money, I'm emotionally abused!" and "he's always at work, I'm emotionally abandoned!". If this passes (and it looks like it will), they could literally commit premeditated murder and get off on it scot-free on a blanket ruling. They have also introduced specific wording into the bill to allow this to apply to WOMEN and ONLY WOMEN. Men don't get to use it.

Modern feminism in the US, both on the internet and in the courtrooms and lobby groups, is literally "we want men to be the sole provider, but we want to earn as much or more money as them, without having to do the shitty jobs so many of them are stuck with or work as many hours as they have to work, while also getting special treatment (paid maternity leave--and they are actively fighting against all forms of paternity leave--, in-house government funded childcare, free government-funded women's health services--everything from birth control to mammograms/pap smears/free childbirth services, etc etc etc), and we also want it so men regardless of their position or authority literally cannot ever tell us what to do"
They want men to literally be their slaves.

Tuvalu said:
I don't think we'll ever reach equality until people stop focusing on members of their own sex and focusing on equality.

We will simply NEVER hit equality of -result-. This is because people are not equal in ability, this is a scientifically provable, universally accepted, empirically testable demonstrable fact.

We hit equality of opportunity 20 years ago, and people aren't satisfied with it. Because they want something for nothing, and the easiest way to get that is to get the government involved by making false accusations and trampling other people in your climb to the top.

**edit**
And about 15 years ago we flew right past equality of opportunity to bias things yet again, with the introduction of hiring quotas based on race and gender. "hey you're discriminating against me even though all the evidence says you're not, I need to be artificially promoted beyond my skill and effort by having you discriminate against those guys on my behalf!"

CuteCoughDeath said:
Statistics on rapes
intimate partner violence
the wage gap
absence in any power structures (government, Cooperate boards)

..all seem to disagree with you.

Statistics on rapes? Men report it way less than women for the reasons of society, as well. Statistics for rapes are also not proof of a need for feminism. That's proof of rape.

In intimate partner violence (domestic violence) women actually hit men more than men hit women, and in over 60% of cases men hit after the woman hit first.

The wage gap is a myth perpetrated by people who averaged ALL jobs together. All. They didn't account for age, degree, job, hours worked, nothing. Four burger flippers earning $7 an hour were being averaged in with the female CEO of some company, earning thousands.

As for absence in power structures, that's due to:
Choice
Requirements

Are you saying we should let anybody with a vagina in to fill a quota? You want somebody leading our nation simply because they have a vagina? Because to me, that seems quite sexist.

I have a pretty low opinion of the subject.

Mostly because it has really stupid supporters attempting to gender-guilt me with a lot of made-up contradictive nonsense with no factual basis.

It's hard to care when your entire organizing structure is predominantly represented by sperglords who think they're making a difference; so cleanly and efficiently the same, they all seem. This makes it really easy to form a broad generalizing opinion of them all when they all act the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snJA1MVrXcE&feature=youtu.be&a

RioluKid said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snJA1MVrXcE&feature=youtu.be&a

"This video has been removed by the user." "Sorry about that."

don't you just hate it when the video you just linked suddenly goes poof?

treos said:
"This video has been removed by the user." "Sorry about that."

don't you just hate it when the video you just linked suddenly goes poof?

here is the reuploaded version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4tXdY_du8

about the only intelligence i hear in his videos are from sargon himself. the rest tends to just go in one ear and out the other.

that last part about sums up my opinion of feminism whenever i hear anyone talking about it.

what i know for sure is while feminism is about women's rights for some people.

on the other hand...for people like anita sarkeesian feminism is little more than a battle for female supremacy and...i generally regard her as a nutjob idiot hypocrite tbh who, while she claims to hate the whole victimizing thing, plays the victim card whenever she can. can't handle criticism at all, attacks people when they call her out on her blatant BS, and typically suffers from the hatred of countless people when her own actions are typically the cause for said hatred.

oh AND she hates video games despite the blatant lie about being a gamer herself. shes gone and attacked a youtube channel i like, AlphaOmegaSin, in the past for calling her out on her BS among other things. likely other channels like that as well.

hmmm...can't think of much else right offhand but i'm sure theres more to be said about anita.

Mutisija said:
the men's issues are covered by feminism. those issues you listed are caused by patriarchy and feminism is a lot about dealing with the issues caused by patriarchy.

also what i have gathered, MRAs often seem to spend more time trying to put down women and destroy feminism than actually trying to deal with the actual men's right issues.

Feminism is dealing with things that offend the feels of women. There is no patriarchy.

From what I've seen, feminists bitch and moan about random stupid shit and MRA's bitch back about seemingly less stupid shit.

That's why I'm an egalitarian.

This thread is annoying and useless and should have run it's course a long time ago.

AKBAR_THE_CORNCOB said:
Feminism is dealing with things that offend the feels of women. There is no patriarchy.

From what I've seen, feminists bitch and moan about random stupid shit and MRA's bitch back about seemingly less stupid shit.

That's why I'm an egalitarian.

i'm not sure what this egalitarian term i keep seeing means BUTif it basically amounts to not picking sides and finding "From what I've seen, feminists bitch and moan about random stupid shit and MRA's bitch back about seemingly less stupid shit." to just be pure stupidity in general then i guess i choose that side in this idiotic "battle of the sexes" type of BS as that's really all it boils down to in the end.

treos said:
i'm not sure what this egalitarian term i keep seeing means BUTif it basically amounts to not picking sides and finding "From what I've seen, feminists bitch and moan about random stupid shit and MRA's bitch back about seemingly less stupid shit." to just be pure stupidity in general then i guess i choose that side in this idiotic "battle of the sexes" type of BS as that's really all it boils down to in the end.

Egalitarianism is the advocacy of equality for all. It doesn't really just stop at male and female. It goes to race, religion, etc

AKBAR_THE_CORNCOB said:
Egalitarianism is the advocacy of equality for all. It doesn't really just stop at male and female. It goes to race, religion, etc

that.... is.. exactly... what... feminism... is. the fact that there are few extreme white feminism idiots burning bras and telling to neuter all men and muslim women to stop using hijab because it oppresses them does not change what feminism is not meant to be.

Not sure if anyone mentioned him yet or not but I pretty much echo with Sargon of Akkad. Here's one video I randomly picked.

ZigguratVertigo said:
Not sure if anyone mentioned him yet or not but I pretty much echo with Sargon of Akkad. Here's one video I randomly picked.

+1 for Sargon.

Mutisija said:
that.... is.. exactly... what... feminism... is. the fact that there are few extreme white feminism idiots burning bras and telling to neuter all men and muslim women to stop using hijab because it oppresses them does not change what feminism is not meant to be.

Okay I have to step back in here.

Where in the world are you getting this?

Feminism is an issue concerning gender equality. Can you provide me a reputable source that defines it as being about all forms of equality? Because it really seems like you are redefining the term in a way that no one uses it. And yes, before you ask, I can provide a source that describes it as being about women's rights.

I... I seriously don't even know where to begin with this. I can only imagine you are confusing individuals who are fairly egalitarian and who identify as feminists as being a defining characteristic of feminism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4s4pZNMq3Q&feature=youtu.be Even women are getting feed up of this feminist pc "progessive" society we live in.

RioluKid said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4s4pZNMq3Q&feature=youtu.be Even women are getting feed up of this feminist pc "progessive" society we live in.

well said, ms. carrera, well said.

say goodbye to ACTA and PIPA, say hello to whiny, butthurt feminists who had they're feeling hurt (time to grow up kids. i've faced lying, profanity spewing, irrationally hateful trolls and haters before but you never hear me whining about it. i just block/mute/etc. them and move on.). heres hoping this new attempt at censorship falls like all the others.

...theres a porn charity? never heard of that before.

Blazikendude said:
But you're a cactus. Cactuses can't get cancer.

All life can get cancer, even plants.

acozybunny said:
All life can get cancer, even plants.

Poor cacti :c

CuteCoughDeath said:
I am appalled at the amount of content on this site that degrades women and portrays them as sex objects.

I think e6 should remove all images that show women:
- in a submissive position
- being used for the pleasure of a man
- being degraded
- being used only in a picture because "they look good"
- depicting unrealistic sexulized traits

If your a misogynist douchbag and come back with "we'll I can find images that analogue these features with using men". Then you clearly don't understand that men hold the power, therefore men; by definition cannot be exploited.

Obvious troll is obvious. C:

Fenrick said:
Poor cacti :c

Poor living things in general :C

RioluKid said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4s4pZNMq3Q&feature=youtu.be Even women are getting feed up of this feminist pc "progessive" society we live in.

I know Mercedes from The Amazing Atheist :D Also Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian were at the UN. *facepalm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjkTtN68SHA
Done.... just..... Done...

Hiatuss said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjkTtN68SHA
Done.... just..... Done...

Anyone who still says that feminism is the advocacy of equality for all can fuck off now, feminist are goddammed psychos and need to go away.

Hiatuss said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjkTtN68SHA
Done.... just..... Done...

goody, one of my fave youtube channels for gaming and feminazi related news. first theUK, now the US, we of the internet now face something worse than SOPA, PIPA, or ACTA. now we face: Feminists whose feelings got hurt because some people said mean things to them.

just a thought but should i still consider them to be adults? cause this sounds incredibly childish to me.

treos said:
goody, one of my fave youtube channels for gaming and feminazi related news. first theUK, now the US, we of the internet now face something worse than SOPA, PIPA, or ACTA. now we face: Feminists whose feelings got hurt because some people said mean things to them.

just a thought but should i still consider them to be adults? cause this sounds incredibly childish to me.

Feminism is the radical notion that women should be treated like oversized children.

acozybunny said:
Obvious troll is obvious. C:

I'm not a troll. If you want proof I can discuss how some porn on this site hurts women, just Skype me.

CuteCoughDeath said:
I'm not a troll. If you want proof I can discuss how some porn on this site hurts women, just Skype me.

I don't doubt that some porn on this site hurts women, personally. But you marked yourself very clearly as a troll right from your first post in this thread, regardless of whether you think of yourself as one.

savageorange said:
I don't doubt that some porn on this site hurts women, personally. But you marked yourself very clearly as a troll right from your first post in this thread, regardless of whether you think of yourself as one.

I hate when people use "troll" as synonymous with "person I disagree with".

If she's genuine about her beliefs, she's not a troll, plain and simple. You might disagree with her, that's fine. I do too. But don't call her a troll unless you're saying she's not being genuine. And I see no reason to think that's the case.

aurel said:
*GAAAASSSP*
My record is wrong! I was not trolling! I GENUINELY believed those people should go to hell and burn for eternity :<

No, dear clawdragons, this lady is a troll. :p

So you're saying she's not being genuine?

Okay. Demonstrate it.

If a drawn image harms you then you must have some very delicate sensibilities.

aurel said:
No, I'm saying that
Trolls that are serious
and trolls that are not serious
are both trololololls.

Then how do you define troll? How does one distinguish a troll from a non-troll?

wanna feed all the trolls on this thread

If feminism isn't needed in developed countries then why is my local Toys R Us still split into a pink half and a blue half

Kaeetayel said:
If feminism isn't needed in developed countries then why is my local Toys R Us still split into a pink half and a blue half

It's called marketing deal with it.

Kaeetayel said:
If feminism isn't needed in developed countries then why is my local Toys R Us still split into a pink half and a blue half

Why does color matter? You are fully in control of what you purchase whether it be pink, blue, purple, or every color of the spectrum.

Mutisija said:
that.... is.. exactly... what... feminism... is. the fact that there are few extreme white feminism idiots burning bras and telling to neuter all men and muslim women to stop using hijab because it oppresses them does not change what feminism is not meant to be.

That is not at all what feminism is. Feminism is advocacy of WOMEN'S rights. Not gay rights, not asian rights, not male rights, nothing but female rights.

aurel said:
If feminism is needed, why the pink half takes 90% of the shop?

>half
>90%

GG m8 you recked her RIGHT UP THE ASS

Ratte said:
Why does color matter? You are fully in control of what you purchase whether it be pink, blue, purple, or every color of the spectrum.

It's not the color that matters. It's called market segmentation and it works (as in makes more money). https://youtu.be/3JDmb_f3E2c

And no, we are not in full control of our decisions. We are proverbial rats in mazes, meat machines. We can be influences and controlled though what other people input into us.

CuteCoughDeath said:
It's not the color that matters. It's called market segmentation and it works (as in makes more money). https://youtu.be/3JDmb_f3E2c

And this is bad because????????

Ratte said:
If a drawn image harms you then you must have some very delicate sensibilities.

This.

RioluKid said:
And this is bad because????????

Because marketers are dividing us based on preceptive differences. This creates cultural gaps. these lead to less women in politics, less men in childcare and phenomena like the wage gap. Marketing influences children enough to tell them how to behave based on if they are a girl or a boy.

To all the people complaining that people shouldn’t complain that their sensibilities are been hurt by an image:
This is not about the images existence. This is about the effect the image has on it's audience. Fetishising rape and murder of women leads to desensitisation and normalisation. And analogy is gun violence, some countries (to be unnamed) have
massive amounts of gun violence and it has become unsurprising for random mass shootings to occur. Others have no mass shootings, so when they have do; people loose their shit.

This is then reflected in their reaction. In the former case, the mass shooting drifts off the news-scope within a week and nothing essentially changes. In the later case, preventative measures are enacted root cause analysis's are performed and people try to improve the overall system.

Clawdragons said:
I hate when people use "troll" as synonymous with "person I disagree with".

If she's genuine about her beliefs, she's not a troll, plain and simple. You might disagree with her, that's fine. I do too. But don't call her a troll unless you're saying she's not being genuine. And I see no reason to think that's the case.

She is a troll because she's posting on a porn site asking it to moderate its content based on morals.

Just like an atheist posting on a christian group that their beliefs are nonsensical is a troll.

Truth does not equal not trolling. Neither does seriousness.

savageorange said:
She is a troll because she's posting on a porn site asking it to moderate its content based on morals.

Just like an atheist posting on a christian group that their beliefs are nonsensical is a troll.

Truth does not equal not trolling. Neither does seriousness.

Your analogy sucks. This site already moderates the porn available. I'm simply suggesting that some additional requirements. I'm like a Christian who asks that Mordalism not be used as an argument.

CuteCoughDeath said:
It's not the color that matters. It's called market segmentation and it works (as in makes more money). https://youtu.be/3JDmb_f3E2c

And no, we are not in full control of our decisions. We are proverbial rats in mazes, meat machines. We can be influences and controlled though what other people input into us.

Then that is your own problem. I bought mainly boys' toys like cars and action figures. It was my money so I bought what I wanted. If you feel you aren't in control of your money then that speaks more about your ability to make decisions than marketing ploys.

CuteCoughDeath said:
This site already moderates the porn available. I'm simply suggesting that some additional requirements.

'Simply suggesting some additional requirements' is vastly understating the change that you are proposing.

Moderation is not at all based on morals currently, and that's because it would be a huge quagmire of subjectivity, all the more so given the subject matter is sex.

That is why I call you a troll. Coming to a porn site and asking it be moderated on the basis of morals? You have left the realm of 'things that might actually happen' FAR behind.

CuteCoughDeath said:
And no, we are not in full control of our decisions. We are proverbial rats in mazes, meat machines. We can be influences and controlled though what other people input into us.

tch, please don't count me in this generalization of the mindless sheep of this world incapable of thinking for themselves.

aurel said:
Yea, this generalization would not apply to everyone. Shopping habits vary greatly...
But damn, there are a lot of mindless sheep <_<

When I see the shit thats going on around me.
People buying ozone generators, and breathing ozone filled air (when its so concentrated one can easily notice the smell from the outside of the house) and they do it all the time.
me: What the hell? do you even know what ozone is?
them: Its "energized air", very healthy, scientists have proven it.
me: (kay, its one of those retards.. load the killer) Yea? by what mechanism it helps?
them: Its "energized" it keeps the body ready with energy, also, look at this paper, scientists have shown that ozone kills bacteria and viruses.
me: No, thats not how it works.
them: what the fuck do you want? scientists have proven it. are you a scientist? No? then stfu.

Really, marketing is as easy, as telling "scientists have proven it" around here <_<
Oh well, at least its not as stupid as:
them: laughing produces vitamin C. me: no, thats stupid. them: scientists have proven it.

o.O that example reminds me of those idiotic febreeze noseblind commercials.

note: there is literally no such thing as going noseblind. it is just a fictional term they came up with to help peddle they're wares to idiots gullible enough to believe such simple minded manipulation.

hmmm... i think you and others around here may like the commercials i hate forums

To bring this full-circle I remember reading something by Ben Goldacre complaining how adverts for cosmetics using fake science to market things were not only teaching the public falsehoods, it's also somewhat sexist in the sense that it gives science the appearance of something impossible to understand on products mainly marketed towards women

I try to stay away from it unless its something like Anita Sarkeesian's "Damsel in Distress" claims towards video game characters

...Why is this toxic fight spreading from 8chan? I left that place precisely because of all the horrible bigotry there.

... My two cents: I seriously don't understand the hate that gets piled on feminism. The crazies are the loud minority. How hard is it to grasp that despite different people's individual strengths and weaknesses, they should all be equal under the law?

BismuthGalaxy said:
...Why is this toxic fight spreading from 8chan? I left that place precisely because of all the horrible bigotry there.

... My two cents: I seriously don't understand the hate that gets piled on feminism. The crazies are the loud minority. How hard is it to grasp that despite different people's individual strengths and weaknesses, they should all be equal under the law?

You seem to be egalitarian, by that last statement. Here's why people hate feminism so much:
Feminists popularly say they're for equality. This is like if a masculinist said they're for equality. Wrong entirely. The names themselves should be dead giveaways, the definitions and the actions of said groups are also dead giveaways. Egalitarians are the ones who advocate equality.

BismuthGalaxy said:
...Why is this toxic fight spreading from 8chan? I left that place precisely because of all the horrible bigotry there.

... My two cents: I seriously don't understand the hate that gets piled on feminism. The crazies are the loud minority. How hard is it to grasp that despite different people's individual strengths and weaknesses, they should all be equal under the law?

don't know what bigotry you're referring to (that's more of aa religion thing, i think) but in regards to feminism: that loud minority is trying to get the internet censored. that minority isn't out for equal rights, it's for gender superiority. how can people not dislike/hate that?

heck, i've seen videos on youtube where even most normal feminists don't like anita and her kind.

CuteCoughDeath said:
Because marketers are dividing us based on preceptive differences. This creates cultural gaps. these lead to less women in politics, less men in childcare and phenomena like the wage gap. Marketing influences children enough to tell them how to behave based on if they are a girl or a boy.

Men and women are not the same there is something called sexual dimorphism, emotonially the twoo genders are different, men and women have different interests dividing the market isn not wrong or evil it's just basic biology DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

CuteCoughDeath said:

To all the people complaining that people shouldn’t complain that their sensibilities are been hurt by an image:
This is not about the images existence. This is about the effect the image has on it's audience. Fetishising rape and murder of women leads to desensitisation and normalisation. And analogy is gun violence, some countries (to be unnamed) have
massive amounts of gun violence and it has become unsurprising for random mass shootings to occur. Others have no mass shootings, so when they have do; people loose their shit.

This is then reflected in their reaction. In the former case, the mass shooting drifts off the news-scope within a week and nothing essentially changes. In the later case, preventative measures are enacted root cause analysis's are performed and people try to improve the overall system.

The desensitisation and normalisation only happens when the consumer of the media has any pre-existing mental condition, there are tons of studies that show media DOES NOT increse the viloence or agression of the consumer, stop using the same song and dance of jack thompson and sarkeesian.

treos said:
tch, please don't count me in this generalization of the mindless sheep of this world incapable of thinking for themselves.

Same goes for me.

RioluKid said:
Men and women are not the same there is something called sexual dimorphism, emotonially the twoo genders are different, men and women have different interests dividing the market isn not wrong or evil it's just basic biology DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

Men and women are different, but almost all of the different interests arise from nurture, not nature. Like I said before, it's the two halves of the toy shop which are the main source of the problem, and it seems there is a lack of people combatting this.

Kaeetayel said:
Men and women are different, but almost all of the different interests arise from nurture, not nature. Like I said before, it's the two halves of the toy shop which are the main source of the problem, and it seems there is a lack of people combatting this.

That's BS, but even if ti weren't why should men and women have the same interests, women have their spaces, why can't we men have our spaces like geek culture for example what is wrong with that??????????

aurel said:
Yes, you know what would be convenient? Having sex stores with no order what so ever. You would just come inside a shop, and find a single big box of stuff, then you would stick your hand deep inside the pile of cocks, and when you pull out a toy, you buy it. Regardless, its made for males or females.

Huh? I don't see how this relates to my argument.

RioluKid said:
That's BS, but even if ti weren't why should men and women have the same interests, women have their spaces, why can't we men have our spaces like geek culture for example what is wrong with that??????????

Why should there even be "spaces?"

Kaeetayel said:
Huh? I don't see how this relates to my argument.

That's basically what would happen if there wasn't any differentiation of products, services or media

Kaeetayel said:
Why should there even be "spaces?"

Because men and women are DIFFERENT how is that idea hard to understand??????