Beanjam said:
If just you're going to hide them behind the "you can't prove I didn't feel this way" defense, then you should just keep them out of the debate.

Forgive me for figuring that my personal experiences with being circumcised were relevant to the topic of circumcision. It is an inherently emotional topic for the people affected, and not enough people realize that. I'm human, and I'm going to have feelings about injustices intentionally committed against me. I'm tired of being silenced about it by people trying to convince me that it isn't important.

Beanjam said:
Oh give me a break. Circumcision is not anything remotely like the female genital mutilation you're trying equate it with. Even by your own absurdly biased assessment of what it does, it still doesn't do anything even remotely like what that does.

Where did I say anything about FGM? I didn't, at all. Putting your own ideas into my words like that isn't very polite. I'm not going to compare and contrast the two, because they're separate issues with different factors and contexts, but they're both worthy of consideration. Any sort of forced genital modification, male or female, is wrong, and it shouldn't be happening. The existence of two different kinds of genital mutilation doesn't detract from the importance of ending them both. They're both completely unfair, to all the men and women they affect.

Beanjam said:
To be frank, no one would give a shit about that if it weren't for the blatant emotional manipulation tactics exemplified in this thread.

If I'm being emotionally manipulative, I apologize. It hasn't been my intention. Having something you value taken from you forever tends to inspire emotion, and what I've felt about it is relevant to the topic. I just want to educate people, because I am convinced that it's an evil in the world that deserves to be eradicated.

Beanjam said:
If you're going to start calling it mutilation, then you better also start calling piercings and tattoos mutilation too.

That's an odd comparison. Both body piercings and tattoos have a legal minimum age, and require consent.

Unsurprisingly, tattooing someone against their will is generally frowned upon.

Beanjam said:
When people like gaunt0 come out of the woodwork to talk about how they were emotionally traumatized by something they couldn't possibly remember, then people are going to call bullshit on it. The anti-circumcision crowd has earned a reputation of being as sensationalist and irrational as other alarmist medical movements like the vaccine = autism movement.

and when people like you appear it's safe to question whether or not your appearing just to cause trouble.

your comparing having a functioning, helpful part of your body removed to the "vaccine = autism movement"? one is medicine related, the other is mutilation of ones genitals. how the fuck do those 2 things come close to being a comparison?

Mutisija said:
idk if it causes trauma or not, i think that its pretty damn stupid to cut a piece of baby's dick off for absolutely no reason

well, no good reason anyway.

Genjar said:
That's an odd comparison. Both body piercings and tattoos have a legal minimum age, and require consent.

Unsurprisingly, tattooing someone against their will is generally frowned upon.

That's without parental consent.

treos said:
and when people like you appear it's safe to question whether or not your appearing just to cause trouble.

You and gaunt0 are the ones who can't seem to make a point without resorting to loaded language.

Beanjam said:
That's without parental consent.

You and gaunt0 are the ones who can't seem to make a point without resorting to loaded language.

and it's pretty obvious that you only entered this thread to argue and cause trouble. you clearly have no interest in debating anything,

you know, i once argued and argued and argued with 2 people like you before. i was hoping not to bring them up in this thread as doing so may have caused trouble but seeing as you seem so similar in your arguments and denial. Maskofdarkness22 and Vladimirr didn't think there was anything wrong with circumcision either (nope, wrong person, my bad) and no amount of arguing would get them to admit otherwise or at least stop. that argument went on until site staff got dragged into the mess and had to end it for us. long story short, i'm pretty sure it resulted in both of them being banned.

so if you have nothing useful to add to this discussion kindly back off and stop causing trouble. (to admin: if this counts as backseat admin then please pardon me as i don't want it to escalate and potentially reach that point with another argument about this topic.)

Beanjam said:
You and gaunt0 are the ones who can't seem to make a point without resorting to loaded language.

... Whether their language is loaded or not, they're still making the point.

I hate my own circumcision. I wish like hell I could have that part of my body back, but I can't. Nobody should have been allowed to make that decision for me. What happened to me was wrong and I'll live with the consequences of it until I die.

I know what I lost. You can say it makes no difference but I have research and numbers saying otherwise. To be frank here your opinion on the matter is not only uneducated and demonstrably incorrect, it's also irrelevant.

Beanjam said:
That's without parental consent.

You and gaunt0 are the ones who can't seem to make a point without resorting to loaded language.

Why are you so obsessed with trying to discredit guant0's personal experiences? They are, by definition, subjective.

Also, where's the popcorn?

Presto said:
... Whether their language is loaded or not, they're still making the point.

I hate my own circumcision. I wish like hell I could have that part of my body back, but I can't. Nobody should have been allowed to make that decision for me. What happened to me was wrong and I'll live with the consequences of it until I die.

I know what I lost. You can say it makes no difference but I have research and numbers saying otherwise. To be frank here your opinion on the matter is not only uneducated and demonstrably incorrect, it's also irrelevant.

They're not making a point any more than the abortion is murder crowd are. The choir is being preached to. As you say, you have research and numbers supporting your point. Even if I were motivated to produce numbers saying otherwise, for you your genitals have been mutilated and nobody should have been allowed to make that decision for you. That is purely a statement of value, just like the statement that children are being murdered because of abortion. The terms being used are arbitrary statements of value, and no amount of semantics can change that.

I just want it to make that clear so there's no illusion that a reasoned debate is possible here or that one has ever been attempted.

In what way is "don't cut pieces off a baby for no medical reason" impossible to have a reasoned debate about? It seems pretty simple to me.

Yes, these are arbitrary statements of value. So is our entire legal system, all of ethics, literally everything. If you want to be so nihilist about things, surely you wouldn't mind if your parents had cut all your limbs off at birth because they believed you'd be happier as a quadra-amputee. I'm not seeing where you draw the line between this and that. If there is a line, it's damn blurry.

Presto said:
In what way is "don't cut pieces off a baby for no medical reason" impossible to have a reasoned debate about? It seems pretty simple to me.

Yes, these are arbitrary statements of value. So is our entire legal system, all of ethics, literally everything. If you want to be so nihilist about things, surely you wouldn't mind if your parents had cut all your limbs off at birth because they believed you'd be happier as a quadra-amputee. I'm not seeing where you draw the line between this and that. If there is a line, it's damn blurry.

Who would possibly debate that you should cut pieces off a baby for no medical reason? I certainly know I wouldn't.

JIDF plz threadlock

Remember children, the right to bodily autonomy ends at your genitals, as outlined by laws and religions all over the world.

Thread locked because this is unnecessary spam from both sides.