I believe puma is the more international word for this large cat. It would also leave the word open for the other meaning of the word cougar.

Do admins have the power to do one-time tag convertions?

Sorrowless said:
I believe puma is the more international word for this large cat. It would also leave the word open for the other meaning of the word cougar.

Do admins have the power to do one-time tag convertions?

It would just be an alias, but I'm against it. Cougar even is suggested as the primary word, with puma as a secondary, and cougar is more commonly named than puma.

Siral_Exan said:
It would just be an alias, but I'm against it. Cougar even is suggested as the primary word, with puma as a secondary, and cougar is more commonly named than puma.

Where? I had never heard the word cougar until at some point online. Not that I can remember.

Sorrowless said:
Where? I had never heard the word cougar until at some point online. Not that I can remember.

Are you in a spanish area? It's more common there... But in North America, they are called Cougars. But, feel free to wiki it, even the wiki declares that they are also commonly called mountain lions, puma, panthers, or (something new to me) a catamount. That last one is supposedly late-middle English, a shortened word of catamountain, which means cat of the mountain.

Siral_Exan said:
Are you in a spanish area? It's more common there...

In my country they are called Poema's. Heck the their latin name is Puma Concolor, maybe its a European thing to call them Puma's

Siral_Exan said:
Are you in a spanish area? It's more common there... But in North America, they are called Cougars. But, feel free to wiki it, even the wiki declares that they are also commonly called mountain lions, puma, panthers, or (something new to me) a catamount. That last one is supposedly late-middle English, a shortened word of catamountain, which means cat of the mountain.

Mighyenta said:
In my country they are called Poema's. Heck the their latin name is Puma Concolor, maybe its a European thing to call them Puma's

Yup. We call them puma in Europe. Can't say for sure for all countries however.

Mighyenta said:
In my country they are called Poema's. Heck the their latin name is Puma Concolor, maybe its a European thing to call them Puma's

Must be European Spanish. Honestly, that gets annoying to determine...

Siral_Exan said:
Must be European Spanish. Honestly, that gets annoying to determine...

Couldn't find anything on the dutch wiki about their name sake. Wikipedia isnt always such a useful source.

Mighyenta said:
Couldn't find anything on the dutch wiki about their name sake. Wikipedia isnt always such a useful source.

Useful, maybe. Accessible, yes. iPhone dictionary, though, still trumps it on speed and accessibility, and that is where I found out about catamount meaning. And, puma's quickest answer was, literally, another term for cougar.

While people should know the different animals and the different names for animals, puma would work better as an alias to cougar if you are worried about mistags on your end. The NA word works better than the rest because it is identifiable rather quickly, and it counters the slang word. This is under the same statement with bitch's alias.

Siral_Exan said:
Useful, maybe. Accessible, yes. iPhone dictionary, though, still trumps it on speed and accessibility, and that is where I found out about catamount meaning. And, puma's quickest answer was, literally, another term for cougar.

While people should know the different animals and the different names for animals, puma would work better as an alias to cougar if you are worried about mistags on your end. The NA word works better than the rest because it is identifiable rather quickly, and it counters the slang word. This is under the same statement with bitch's alias.

You said the NA word would counter the slang word? Don't you mean puma instead?

Sorrowless said:
You said the NA word would counter the slang word? Don't you mean puma instead?

https://e621.net/forum/show/207743

The alias from bitch to female completely prevents the use of the word bitch. In such regard, cougar, as a species tag, completely prevents the use of the word for predatory women stalking younger males. In this case, we don't need to alias, since it is already a name of a species. But, since this is starting to feel unnecessary...

Why do you think aliasing to Puma would be a good thing; what benefit does it have?

Siral_Exan said:
https://e621.net/forum/show/207743

The alias from bitch to female completely prevents the use of the word bitch. In such regard, cougar, as a species tag, completely prevents the use of the word for predatory women stalking younger males. In this case, we don't need to alias, since it is already a name of a species. But, since this is starting to feel unnecessary...

Why do you think aliasing to Puma would be a good thing; what benefit does it have?

I stated my reasons on the first post. People from around the world are more likely to recognise the world puma rather than cougar. And yes, it saves us from confusion of the slang. Opens it up for use, even.

Sorrowless said:
I stated my reasons on the first post. People from around the world are more likely to recognise the world puma rather than cougar. And yes, it saves us from confusion of the slang. Opens it up for use, even.

I'm pretty sure most of the userbase is American though.

cougar and puma are NOT interchangeable.

A cougar (A species) is a type of puma, but pumas (A genus) include cougars and jaguarundis.

Sorrowless said:
I stated my reasons on the first post. People from around the world are more likely to recognise the world puma rather than cougar. And yes, it saves us from confusion of the slang. Opens it up for use, even.

"Opens it up for use, even"... Are you sure you really want to list, or see, any image with that, when Mature_female literally fills that meaning, and then some?

I believe that this was brought up, but European Spanish word. Not everyone knows it. The only reason I knew it, because of highschool and constantly changing elementary schools, was the RVB joke in episode 2.

But, allow me my retort: this site is predominantly English, even in general standards. The site even wants the English translations of translatable names (most commonly seen from the language(s) Pixiv uses). The only exception noted is grey, but the literal difference between American and European is an a or an e...

When I was comparing the bitch statement, we already have a tag to troll the users of said, it is a species tag called cougar, but there is better terms that are more recognizable on both trolling or literal standards. Mountain lion was what I knew it by, because of a/multiple survival handbook(s), and unlike puma, it dissects the meaning two common-er words to state a species. It is not hard to say "I'm in a mountain, and this is a big cat." to interpret the meaning. I wouldn't be taking the time to say that, I'd probably be standing perfectly still and hoping they pass me by...

As for changing the meaning of cougar to "A creepy old lady," I think text-book definitions heavily trump American Slang here. If you do that, all you're going to do is confuse people looking for actual cougars.

Prefer the puma term over cougar given the slang and such as well, not to mention it's the name for the genus.

Siral_Exan said:
"Opens it up for use, even"... Are you sure you really want to list, or see, any image with that, when Mature_female literally fills that meaning, and then some?

I was just saying. I know there are tags covering "cougars" already. Or is it? Being a mature lade having sex with someone younger is one thing. Going after them on a more regular basis is another.

I was writing a longer post, but then poking through the wiki, I discovered something that renders Sorrowless' argument mute.
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=cougar_%28mature%29

Alias them all to "mountain_lion".

Random said:
Alias them all to "mountain_lion".

To be honest, I would prefer that if lion didn't exist as a tag. But that is just saying the name, not the species.

Let's just tag every species in Latin. /s

Honestly, though, that's why Latin species names exist. Plenty of languages have misleading or overlapping common names for different species.

+1 to aliasing both to mountain_lion.

mountain_lion is good, too. Still think puma is better as it works well in both NA and the rest of the world.

Fum said:
Let's just tag every species in Latin. /s

Honestly, though, that's why Latin species names exist. Plenty of languages have misleading or overlapping common names for different species.

A little dramatic, don't you think?

I vote puma, because it's internationally recognized. Slang has nothing to look for on this site.

Another vote for Puma, since it's the genus.

Using the Latin names for everything would be worth consideration if not for all the fictional species... and constant taxonomy changes.

Puma sounds adorable. +1 for puma

Sorrowless said:
A little dramatic, don't you think?

That's why the /s. Latin is the perfect solution here, but so impractical it would cause more harm than good.
We call them pumas here, but I would imagine most americans would vote aliasing puma to cougar.

I'm surprised so many were positive to change cougar to something else. What is needed for this to become a reality? A few more admin approvals?

Sorrowless said:
I'm surprised so many were positive to change cougar to something else. What is needed for this to become a reality? A few more admin approvals?

Patience and an admin who wants do deal with this. However, it might be a good idea to submit an alias request about it, than keep it as is.

I didn't just tally up all the +1s for each change, but why just pick a different one of the equally valid alternatives? FWIW, Wikipedia redirects all of the synonyms to cougar. At least in English. And if people are looking for any of those English words when they don't already know them, that's probably where they'll be going. We already have a character tag for Cougar the superhero. Probably much better off creating a disambiguation and aliasing them all to cougar.

Delian said:
I vote puma, because it's internationally recognized. Slang has nothing to look for on this site.

Yeah, about that... we have tags like cum_in_pussy/ass.

Fenrick said:
Yeah, about that... we have tags like cum_in_pussy/ass.

...

Maybe cum is a more internationally recognized word than sperm or semen?

I don't know if that's likely but ass most assuredly is not

Sorrowless said:
Maybe cum is a more internationally recognized word than sperm or semen?

Fenrick said:
I don't know if that's likely but ass most assuredly is not

What about pussy too? The male genital tag is penis, but vagina and vulva both alias to the slang for simplicity. I don't think the long term trend of tag configuration here supports the notion that internationally recognized slang is the dominating standard. More about condensing ideas down into discoverable things.

I meant slang as in, puma being an (american slang) word for an older woman stalking younger guys.

Anyway.
Cougar / Mountain Lion = US
Puma = Rest of the world

It's not even about puma being the word for genus. The word is simply recognized and used in most countries outside US.

Using cougar is only understood inside US. It's a "local" word that's only used in one country.

And last time I know, this wasn't a US-only site.

Fenrick said:
I'm pretty sure most of the userbase is American though.

I wonder. How sure you are of this? Becase I would disagree

Siral_Exan said:
Useful, maybe. Accessible, yes. iPhone dictionary, though, still trumps it on speed and accessibility, and that is where I found out about catamount meaning. And, puma's quickest answer was, literally, another term for cougar.

In an American dictionary, they're going to tell you what an American word for puma is. You know what's the definition for "cougar" in British dictionary? I wonder ...

So yeah. This being an international site, it should be using words that are understood in more than one country. There's no need to argue about cum, which is international slang.

Delian said:
I meant slang as in, puma being an (american slang) word for an older woman stalking younger guys.

I wonder. How sure you are of this? Becase I would disagree

In an American dictionary, they're going to tell you what an American word for puma is. You know what's the definition for "cougar" in British dictionary? I wonder ...

So yeah. This being an international site, it should be using words that are understood in more than one country. There's no need to argue about cum, which is international slang.

I would still quantify 43% as "most," considering that the next-highest demographic 7.7%, making it just under a fifth as large. There's honestly no sense in dictating things that way when a large portion of the userbase isn't even from an English-speaking nation.

In a British dictionary, "ass" would refer to a donkey. Yet we use it to refer to the posterior. I'm not saying it should be that way, but the history of tag naming conventions on this site, be it right or wrong, doesn't align with what you are saying.

Delian said:
I wonder. How sure you are of this? Becase I would disagree

At first I was like WTF! Where do the rest of the world go for furry porn? Then I realized that we don't see the smaller statistics. Over half of visitors are not from the US. Still, there are surprisingly many Americans here. What is the reason for it? The furry community blooming locally perhaps? Most fur cons I know of have taken place over there. Other cons too for that matter. Maybe the US is simply the land of the geeks looking from an international standpoint.

Sorrowless said:
Still, there are surprisingly many Americans here. What is the reason for it?

Population.
USA (43.2% of e621 users) has more population than Germany, UK, Canada, and South Korea combined.

Genjar said:
Population.
USA (43.2% of e621 users) has more population than Germany, UK, Canada, and South Korea combined.

That is a major factor, yes. Still, there are more people in Europe then in North-America. While it's safe to say that this is an American site, it is also an international site since about 50% isn't.

notnobody said:
What about pussy too? The male genital tag is penis, but vagina and vulva both alias to the slang for simplicity. I don't think the long term trend of tag configuration here supports the notion that internationally recognized slang is the dominating standard. More about condensing ideas down into discoverable things.

Tbh I'm still salty about this.

Genjar said:
Population.
USA (43.2% of e621 users) has more population than Germany, UK, Canada, and South Korea combined.

Not to mention America sort of started the internet as we know it. (Theres a reason it's so commercialized and why there's American laws that govern the internet)

Delian said:
It's not even about puma being the word for genus. The word is simply recognized and used in most countries outside US.

Using cougar is only understood inside US. It's a "local" word that's only used in one country.

Are you, um, sure about that?

Most countries outside of US do not speak English, and often have names for animals that sound nothing like their English counterparts. Especially non-native animals. You kinda learn the word the same way you learn what "mile" means.

That second meaning of "cougar" is much more local in this sense. I mean, how many people do you think are aware of the second meaning without knowing the first?

If admins were to confuse as many people as possible, "catamount" or even "mountain_lion" would do a better job anyway.

GDelscribe said:
Not to mention America sort of started the internet as we know it. (Theres a reason it's so commercialized and why there's American laws that govern the internet)

With that logic all websites should have a large amount of Americans on them.

Sorrowless said:
What is the reason for it?

The US has the second-highest number of internet users of any nation, and I'm pretty sure furries are more well-known here than in most countries, which translates to more people getting into it.

Sorrowless said:
With that logic all websites should have a large amount of Americans on them.

This isnt a kind of logic it's a literal fact lmao. The internet was originally made in America in the 60s as a way to communicate and back up important university documents.

When it got too expensive to maintain commercial companies were allowed to buy into it and sell it to people in return for ad revenue and other things.
Its why your telecom companies sell you your Internet service.

And arguably a massive amount of non English websites still have Americans on them. Theres a massive American internet population and its really not surprising at all to think that at least one American has used 90% of existing websites.

GDelscribe said:
This isnt a kind of logic it's a literal fact lmao. The internet was originally made in America in the 60s as a way to communicate and back up important university documents.

When it got too expensive to maintain commercial companies were allowed to buy into it and sell it to people in return for ad revenue and other things.
Its why your telecom companies sell you your Internet service.

And arguably a massive amount of non English websites still have Americans on them. Theres a massive American internet population and its really not surprising at all to think that at least one American has used 90% of existing websites.

So a large amount of visitors on Japanese websites are American?

Sorrowless said:
So a large amount of visitors on Japanese websites are American?

I think you're employing a logical fallacy my dude.
And even before pixiv opened up its doors to american users it was still populated with american users. Same with niconico and a bunch of other popular japanese websites.

I've used japanese "exclusive" websites for years since I'm heavy into the touhou fandom and used to be big into mugen. So. Id say theres a very large american population even there.

All aside to that just because most websites have had some american visitors and users does not mean that all sites have a majority american userbase. Those things don't correlate at all really.

I've always regarded puma and cougar as synonymous, and I'm American. +1 to this idea.