I was thinking about two things I generally don't see tagged, and wasn't even exactly sure what would make sense.

One thing is a flaccid penis in a sheath. fully_sheathed seems to be at least really close, but is that generally considered the furry parlance for it? I'm thinking the term would sort of be a little more general, in that it's disambiguated in the wiki from penis_tip. I'd say you could have an image with or without a portion showing, but being flaccid, which the wiki says it's not to be confused with, and in either case, it's still an unaroused penis in a sheath and I'm not sure there's an agreed-upon term for it.

The other thing is text of a character requesting some act or other. Maybe it's too specific, but it seems fairly meaningful and specific. That is - text on the page in general, just dialogue, might be something searched for, but more specific than that, someone might be looking for, say, a POV image with a character demanding oral or something. Struggling to think of something that would be appropriate to call that in just a word or two, though.

Any thoughts? These seem like things worth tagging to anyone else?

I believe forum #181201 is used for these situations.

While I don't know about the first one, that second one sounds like dialogue. That's really what we use to tag a person saying something.

Furrin_Gok said:
I believe forum #181201 is used for these situations.

While I don't know about the first one, that second one sounds like dialogue. That's really what we use to tag a person saying something.

I intended forum #181201 to be for new tag announcements, but it's completely escaped my control at this point XD

notnobody said:
One thing is a flaccid penis in a sheath. fully_sheathed seems to be at least really close, but is that generally considered the furry parlance for it? I'm thinking the term would sort of be a little more general, in that it's disambiguated in the wiki from penis_tip. I'd say you could have an image with or without a portion showing, but being flaccid, which the wiki says it's not to be confused with, and in either case, it's still an unaroused penis in a sheath and I'm not sure there's an agreed-upon term for it.

To me that sounds like just flaccid (possibly half-erect) and sheath together, since it clearly isn't included in either other tags, but I'd like to see examples of what you mean first. This discussion is pointless if it doesn't actually apply to existing images on the site, and a description is just not clear enough.

The other thing is text of a character requesting some act or other. Maybe it's too specific, but it seems fairly meaningful and specific. That is - text on the page in general, just dialogue, might be something searched for, but more specific than that, someone might be looking for, say, a POV image with a character demanding oral or something. Struggling to think of something that would be appropriate to call that in just a word or two, though.

There's begging in some cases, but generally most of what specifically goes on in dialogue (besides dirty_talk and insult) doesn't get tagged. Nothing prevents you from applying order where relevant, but if it's just stuff "Hey, can you please do a reacharound?" I don't think there's any good reason to tag it.

Circeus said:
...sounds like just flaccid (possibly half-erect) and sheath together...

Right - so, I'd sort of think that some combination of those would make sense, except that the wiki pages sort of advise against it as they are now. I'd say they might be in need of an edit, but I think they do make sense as they are now. fully_sheathed says to use penis_tip instead when you can see it, which makes sense, but also says to only use flaccid if the penis itself is visible. And then flaccid in turn says not to be used if the penis is hidden inside, and to use genital_slit or fully_sheathed instead. That all makes sense, and obviously you could find what you were I'm describing by just searching like "~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip" or something. I'm just curious if there exists a term that blankets those all. Example here... Among these three images, only one should have (and does have) the flaccid tag. But I could imagine some piece of domain language that would encompass them all:

post #951365 post #998481 post #525196

Circeus said:
..generally most of what specifically goes on in dialogue (besides dirty_talk and insult) doesn't get tagged...

Right, and I think that makes sense. The complexity added by trying to break down every single thing that's ever talked about would way outweigh the likelihood of anyone getting any value out of its added searchability. This, I'm thinking, is sort of just potentially a specific enough flavor of dirty talk that it might possibly be worthy of some tag of its own. Things like this:

post #676307 post #905477 post #351453

are sort of a pretty specific subset of dirty_talk images, and I could see them being searched for with some difficulty, trying to filter them out of things more to the tune of "oh yeah baby your dick feels so good, etc, etc," or even the more general domination things like "take it all, bitch," said mid-fuck or something. order might make sense - at least to narrow things down. Among the things currently using it, most seem like complete mis-tags, but then

post #696269

seems to fit the mold I'm talking about and

post #17387

seems to be a distinct but arguably sufficiently similar thing for the word order.

Here's a related subset of dirty_talk: set:itself, for posts with dialog that follows the formula "...not going to ____ itself."

^ I feel this raises an obvious question:
Is there R34 of set:itself ?

notnobody said:
Right - so, I'd sort of think that some combination of those would make sense, except that the wiki pages sort of advise against it as they are now. I'd say they might be in need of an edit, but I think they do make sense as they are now. fully_sheathed says to use penis_tip instead when you can see it, which makes sense, but also says to only use flaccid if the penis itself is visible. And then flaccid in turn says not to be used if the penis is hidden inside, and to use genital_slit or fully_sheathed instead. That all makes sense, and obviously you could find what you were I'm describing by just searching like "~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip" or something. I'm just curious if there exists a term that blankets those all. Example here... Among these three images, only one should have (and does have) the flaccid tag. But I could imagine some piece of domain language that would encompass them all:

post #951365 post #998481 post #525196

What the wiki means is just not to use flaccid when another tag is more accurate. It is perfectly possible to have a flaccid dick coming out of a sheath:

post #930800

As I understand this explanation, you want something that would amount to something roughly like "unerect_male", and honestly I highly doubt such a supertag would be of much use.

This, I'm thinking, is sort of just potentially a specific enough flavor of dirty talk that it might possibly be worthy of some tag of its own. Things like this:

post #676307 post #905477 post #351453

are sort of a pretty specific subset of dirty_talk images, and I could see them being searched for with some difficulty, trying to filter them out of things more to the tune of "oh yeah baby your dick feels so good, etc, etc," or even the more general domination things like "take it all, bitch," said mid-fuck or something. order might make sense - at least to narrow things down. Among the things currently using it, most seem like complete mis-tags, but then

post #696269

seems to fit the mold I'm talking

talking_to_viewer+domination may cover a significant swath of what you want, too. It certainly applies to three out of four of those pics.

leomole said:
Here's a related subset of dirty_talk: set:itself, for posts with dialog that follows the formula "...not going to ____ itself."

Y'know, I think I like the idea of itself as a tag for that.

Circeus said:
...you want something that would amount to something roughly like "unerect_male"

Well, or dickgirl or futanari or herm or intersex. Honestly, when I first mentioned it, I was sort of more just curious about whether there was some term I didn't know and might think was interesting, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like it actually might be pretty useful. Think about - if you wanted one search to find what we're talking about, just spitballing here, it'd be basically:

(~male ~futanari ~dickgirl ~herm ~intersex) (~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip)

And even with that, which is beyond a normal user's limit, you'd still probably very frequently run into the issue where the hits are from unrelated elements (e.g. searched for red lips and found a red flower next to blue lips). Hit rate would be better if you added solo, but then you'd miss the intended element in non-solo pics.

Circeus said:
talking_to_viewer+domination may cover a significant swath of what you want, too. It certainly applies to three out of four of those pics.

True. But there really are a lot of ones like the one it doesn't apply to that I'd think you'd want to find - I say, having tried a bunch of times in the past with varying degrees of success.

Circeus said:
Y'know, I think I like the idea of itself as a tag for that.

Yeah, interesting. Sounds slightly vague just by...itself...though. Maybe even wont_blank_itself or something?

notnobody said:
(~male ~futanari ~dickgirl ~herm ~intersex) (~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip)

A couple tips here:

There's no reason you need to specify all the genders since that's a given with the penis-relates tags present.

dickgirl and herm both imply intersex, so you only have to search for intersex to get both.

futanari is aliased to intersex, which means it pulls up the same results in a search. You can omit that too.

Grouping by parentheses is, unfortunately, not supported on the site.

So male ~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip and intersex ~flaccid ~fully_sheathed ~penis_tip would be the most optimal (with those tags).

It doesn't answer your question in the OP, but it may give you some more options.

Oh, futanari's aliased to intersex? Someone should fix that. Futanari directly translates to hermaphrodite.

But right, so removing all genders from there makes more sense than listing them all. Penis is penis, whatever it's attached to, if that's what you're looking for. So all that would leave in that case is the question of whether there's some conjoining term to represent the low end of flaccid/semi-erect/erect regardless of attachment. Just negating two of those three states would also do part of the job, but also muddle things with non-solo pics.

notnobody said:
Oh, futanari's aliased to intersex? Someone should fix that. Futanari directly translates to hermaphrodite.

Actually, people would tag dickgirls and hermaphrodites as Futanari, so aliasing it to either is out of the question.

Furrin_Gok said:
Actually, people would tag dickgirls and hermaphrodites as Futanari, so aliasing it to either is out of the question.

I don't see how aliasing a word to a translation of it becomes wrong because people might sometimes use it incorrectly. Futanari means hermaphrodie and only hermaphrodite. Intersex is kansei. Having it aliased as it is now is wrong 100% of the time.

notnobody said:
I don't see how aliasing a word to a translation of it becomes wrong because people might sometimes use it incorrectly. Futanari means hermaphrodie and only hermaphrodite. Intersex is kansei. Having it aliased as it is now is wrong 100% of the time.

Nope. It's right 100% of the time: Hermaphrodites and dickgirls are both intersex, after all.
Often times, people just assume Futanari is this "Feminine body with a penis" and don't look into the actual definition, so aliasing it to hermaphrodite wouldn't work because in 90% of the images people tag as it, there's no visible pussy.

Furrin_Gok said:
Nope. It's right 100% of the time: Hermaphrodites and dickgirls are both intersex, after all.
Often times, people just assume Futanari is this "Feminine body with a penis" and don't look into the actual definition, so aliasing it to hermaphrodite wouldn't work because in 90% of the images people tag as it, there's no visible pussy.

Isn't what you're describing an implication, not an alias? An alias removes the source tag and replaces with the other, as if to say "you typed this thing, but you did not mean it. You actually meant this other thing." In this case, that would be like saying "futanari means intersex and only intersex. If you type futanari, you mean intersex. You do not mean herm." But that's not true. Even if you were wrong, if you typed futa, you meant herm. Gender mis-tagging is a common problem we deal with here, right? If someone sees a muscular body without breasts from behind and tags male when it's actually female, the problem was a mis-tag. If someone sees a dick on a feminine body and tags dickgirl when there was actually a vagina behind the balls, it's the same thing. Futa and herm would both imply intersex, but they (as synonyms for one thing between them) stand on their own too. You collapse the two identical terms to each other and then imply them to a broader thing that they imply alongside other words that do too. Getting people to tag what they see is a separate problem to deal with, but not by purposely replacing correct specific tags with correct less specific tags when it isn't necessary.

notnobody said:
Isn't what you're describing an implication, not an alias? An alias removes the source tag and replaces with the other, as if to say "you typed this thing, but you did not mean it. You actually meant this other thing." In this case, that would be like saying "futanari means intersex and only intersex. If you type futanari, you mean intersex. You do not mean herm." But that's not true. Even if you were wrong, if you typed futa, you meant herm. Gender mis-tagging is a common problem we deal with here, right? If someone sees a muscular body without breasts from behind and tags male when it's actually female, the problem was a mis-tag. If someone sees a dick on a feminine body and tags dickgirl when there was actually a vagina behind the balls, it's the same thing. Futa and herm would both imply intersex, but they (as synonyms for one thing between them) stand on their own too. You collapse the two identical terms to each other and then imply them to a broader thing that they imply alongside other words that do too. Getting people to tag what they see is a separate problem to deal with, but not by purposely replacing correct specific tags with correct less specific tags when it isn't necessary.

Having to clean out the futanari, or even the herm tag is a lot more trouble than simply forcing people to actually add the right tag. It's not even an English word, so why would you want it? It's easy enough to just type out "Herm" or "Dickgirl." Plus, you don't have to worry about misspellings since it's actually the language the site is in.

Furrin_Gok said:
Having to clean out the futanari, or even the herm tag is a lot more trouble than simply forcing people to actually add the right tag. It's not even an English word, so why would you want it? It's easy enough to just type out "Herm" or "Dickgirl." Plus, you don't have to worry about misspellings since it's actually the language the site is in.

Yeah, I'm saying I agree we don't leave it in; Alias it to the correct word, not stop aliasing it. Futa should be removed and replaced with herm, not removed and replaced with intersex. Herm in turn should imply intersex. That way we don't have to manually clean it out but when it happens automatically it changes to the correct thing.

notnobody said:
Yeah, I'm saying I agree we don't leave it in; Alias it to the correct word, not stop aliasing it. Futa should be removed and replaced with herm, not removed and replaced with intersex. Herm in turn should imply intersex. That way we don't have to manually clean it out but when it happens automatically it changes to the correct thing.

People have used futa for dickgirls and herms, so it is aliased to the next best thing. Otherwise, people will have to monitor the use of herm a bit more, because people misused the word futa because they used it as dickgirl (when the image is a dickgirl) and the usual assumption that X is a herm without the proper evidence (same things if it is aliased to dickgirl, just reverse the tags); not many people bother to keep up with any intersex tag to begin with.

Siral_Exan said:
People have used futa for dickgirls and herms, so it is aliased to the next best thing..

I guess what I'm saying is that by that same logic, we might as well just alias every gender tag to "gendered." People get it wrong sometimes, and we still have that problem either way. But purposely being a little bit wrong all the time doesn't seem like a good solution to mistakes causing things to maybe be a little more wrong some of the time.

notnobody said:
I guess what I'm saying is that by that same logic, we might as well just alias every gender tag to "gendered." People get it wrong sometimes, and we still have that problem either way. But purposely being a little bit wrong all the time doesn't seem like a good solution to mistakes causing things to maybe be a little more wrong some of the time.

This site gives you the tools and a tagging rule to find only what you want, and the ability to avoid what you don't. Having a tag that lets errors occur, even if aliased, is a bad thing.

Futa=intersex is the easiest choice. Not all of us speak the language, the people who tried and demonstrated the tag didn't even know the difference between uses on the site, and the tag combo for it, making it redundant if unaliased, is "dickgirl -balls" or "herm -balls".

The people making the mistake you're describing do so not by lack of understanding the language, but by not reading the gender tagging guidelines or not paying attention. If futa->intersex makes sense as an alias, herm->intersex does for an identical reason. The wiki even clearly explains that you should use herm instead, but instead of making you automatically follow the advice via the alias, it makes you automatically not follow it.

notnobody said:
The people making the mistake you're describing do so not by lack of understanding the language, but by not reading the gender tagging guidelines or not paying attention. If futa->intersex makes sense as an alias, herm->intersex does for an identical reason. The wiki even clearly explains that you should use herm instead, but instead of making you automatically follow the advice via the alias, it makes you automatically not follow it.

Ok, do you know that a futa can be drawn without the pussy shown, and instead assumed because of the lack of balls? The intersex tags have a problem where they are mistagged into the assumed genders (the one intersex and one normal parallels for body type), but futa has been consistently mistaken for the two parallel intersex tags along with the normal parallel body type. The alias to intersex removes both chances of mistagging the intersex, instead of having to fix the gender tag manually (because it's just the umbrella tag) when it's wrong.

In shorthand: you can only be wrong with futa if you tagged it on a female without a visible penis. If it is aliased to herm, you can now be wrong with both female and when it is used for dickgirl, and vice versa if it is aliased to dickgirl. That is worse, a bad trade off, than what is currently used, because there are now two possible ways to mistag it instead of one.

Even the most experienced taggers can get tags wrong by wiki definition, so do you really expect a new tagger to both wiki up and understand the difference between herm, dickgirl, and by your suggestion the word futa (for understanding purposes)?

Am I missing something with the focus on balls? Balls are an expected part of both herm and futanari. Sometimes people draw them with penis only, but that's style, not definition. Dickgirl is girl minus pussy plus dick and/or balls. Herm is same thing, not minus pussy. It's really simple, and based on tag what you see rules, which aren't any more likely for a new tagger to know than any of the rest of this, you're identically likely to be wrong either way. I'm saying it's more simple than you're giving it credit for. Herm and futa are identical. Dickgirl has no pussy. All are intersex. So alias it to the most accurate two, and imply them both to the umbrella term. Or, for the sake of consistency, if we have so little faith that new taggers can understand two out of three, just go whole hog and alias all three to intersex.

Futanari do not need to have balls. "Full package futanari" is even a term coined up for when they have balls, and the point of balls is it helps obscure the pussy (which'd make it dickgirl. In shorthand it makes & breaks futa by terminology). It even is termed for female body with a penis, it has been used sexually as much as literally, which means hermaphrodites (sexually) and dickgirl (literally) are both correct tags to them. TWYS steps on both terms as well, because artists and tags do not have to adhere to the term to use the name (go compare herm & Dickgirl on FA, herm dwarfs the other despite some of them not showing a pussy).

It has been used as a name to tag both intersex types, regardless of meaning. This is why the alias was made, it was to stop a good portion of mistags by making tag neutral towards either gender.

I legitimately hope that you are joking about aliasing "all three" into intersex... Intersex is for all four intersex genders, the alias from futa to it is to prevent inconsistencies with it's complexity. dickgirl, herm, cuntboy, and maleherm all apply to only one type of gender, futa can apply to two.

And the presence of balls, to revisit, confirms or denies futa when it has been used as a name, for characters with balls and without balls.

Just to note - enjoying this discussion... As much of an impasse as it feels like, it's a bit of learning about the history of the site mixed with a bit of efficiency discussion and a bit of sort of use case thinking. Anyway:

Not joking or advocating, just making a point. What's the difference between someone knowing how to properly use maleherm vs their knowing how to properly using futanari? In both cases, it's either domain knowledge or reading of guidelines. I've never seen the term maleherm outside of here, so beyond just guessing, I would've had to look up the wiki to understand it. And I'm sure you're right that people frequently misuse the Japanese term based on whatever they've interpreted by things they've seen before. Still, there's no reason why a flat-chested, masculine character with both sets of genitals is anything by a hermaphrodite, based on the dictionary definition, as far as the uninitiated would be concerned. But it's totally valid to say that maleherm is a unique enough term that nobody comes here with an incorrect preconception of it, where they might come in and consistently misuse futanari if they've looked at a ton of hentai. I just always rail against the notion of doing non-optimal things to account for user stupidity. A word means what it means, regardless of how people misuse it. If we're going to pretend otherwise, that's reasonable if it saves enough remediation work to be worth it, but let's not pretend that misuse actually changes the definition. I'm not sure if I'm trying to give respect to the language or just being a real stickler, but I don't like to muddle meanings unnecessarily. I guess I'm probably more sensitive to it with language knowledge.

If we were trying to be really clear and simple, the system would actively reject nonexistent tags, and in this particular case, users would have to either enter male, female, or intersex, and then augment with either masculine, feminine, or both. It'd be somewhat less informative, but simpler.