Hello! I recently flagged a picture (#14122) as an inferior edit of the original image (14085). I am not the only one who feels it is such, the picture stands at -15 votes while the original is +76 and there are dozens of comments on the edit with people saying it's ugly, it's terrible, it's horrible, and many other negative comments about the edit. Yet for some reason I check it's flag history and I see it's no longer flagged for deletion but listed as Active. Might I inquire why? It would seem obvious it's inferior between the negative score and the myriad of negative comments about it which point to it being pretty bad and it's not just one person or a few people saying it but many many people saying it.

Given that it's been up for 9 years, I don't think the admins are interested in deleting it no matter how many people think it looks like shit.

post #6268 (click if you dare) has been up for 10 years, has a score of -1312, and has been flagged countless times yet it still hasn't been deleted.

BlackLicorice said:
Given that it's been up for 9 years, I don't think the admins are interested in deleting it no matter how many people think it looks like shit.

Or no one has actually pointed it out.

The decision if something is allowed to stay or not is up to us. Just because something got flagged for deletion does not mean it will get deleted as well.

Also, negative comments and scores have no bearing on our decisions.

BlackLicorice said:
Given that it's been up for 9 years, I don't think the admins are interested in deleting it no matter how many people think it looks like shit.

You can get really old stuff deleted sometimes (example) but like NotMeNotYou said, whether or not people liked it has nothing to do with it.

Really? I wish it would say on the Flag History page for the pic a reason why the admin decided to keep it. Some stuff just needs to be buried in a deep dark mine shaft and forgotten. >.<

BlackLicorice said:
Given that it's been up for 9 years, I don't think the admins are interested in deleting it no matter how many people think it looks like shit.

post #6268 (click if you dare) has been up for 10 years, has a score of -1312, and has been flagged countless times yet it still hasn't been deleted.

I find the idea of terrible art being grandfathered in distasteful. If it's shit then it's shit...just because it managed to fly under the radar for a long time doesn't make it less shit.

Honestly that edit is not only bad, but also mean spirited...as an editor myself I can tell he just lengthened her torso, but did nothing to her legs to compensate. If she stood up she'd look like a dwarf...and that sideboob snaking through the crook of her arm like that is just...lol. That's not how boobs work. Then we have the mean-spirited text on the top dissing the original artist in the most basic font possible. Yep...totally should delete.

Seems to me some mod had mercy on this abomination and the system is set up in such a way that it's impossible to give it a second look.

Roseroar said:
Really? I wish it would say on the Flag History page for the pic a reason why the admin decided to keep it. Some stuff just needs to be buried in a deep dark mine shaft and forgotten. >.<

Dyrone said:
I find the idea of terrible art being grandfathered in distasteful. If it's shit then it's shit...just because it managed to fly under the radar for a long time doesn't make it less shit.

Honestly that edit is not only bad, but also mean spirited...as an editor myself I can tell he just lengthened her torso, but did nothing to her legs to compensate. If she stood up she'd look like a dwarf...and that sideboob snaking through the crook of her arm like that is just...lol. That's not how boobs work. Then we have the mean-spirited text on the top dissing the original artist in the most basic font possible. Yep...totally should delete.

Seems to me some mod had mercy on this abomination and the system is set up in such a way that it's impossible to give it a second look.

There's good reason why there's mention of grandfathered posts at the beginning of the uploading guidelines.

There is absurd amount of complete trash and memes from the time that site was established and I'm willing to guess that many didn't "fly under radar" but more of they were just accepted then. Current staff simply couldn't handle it if users were able to flag old posts for quality standards, it would need someone dedicated for the job which would handle all posts from the beginning, who would also handle all the effected users and possible complains that it would generate and could take from months to years of time if they were doing it fulltime and paid.

So just downvote shit that is clearly shit and move on. If something like this really bothers someone, artists and character owners are able to takedown any content for any reason, so you can nicely ask them to file takedown for poor edits like that.

Dyrone said:
I find the idea of terrible art being grandfathered in distasteful. If it's shit then it's shit...just because it managed to fly under the radar for a long time doesn't make it less shit.

Disclaimer: I'm speaking generally. I haven't even looked at the referenced posts.

I mostly agree, excepting that a lot of "good" art from years ago hasn't aged well. What may have been well above a minimum quality threshold 8 years ago might not get approved today. Some old art may be bad by today's standards yet was good for its time. There's much value in preserving that, largely to "see how far we've come". Some things, though, are just too painful to look at now, IMO. Maybe they were never even decent. A green thumb would be needed to sort old weeds from decomposing flowers.

Mario69 said:
Current staff simply couldn't handle it if users were able to flag old posts for quality standards

I think you're severely overestimating the amount of users who comb over extremely old posts, and then overestimating again the subsection of those users who would take the time to flag.

I'm not a fan of retroactively enforcing rules, that generates a huge mass of work, but if I had to guess I would say quality standards when this edit was posted are much the same as they are now. So it's more or less asking for a second look.

Mario69 said:
artists and character owners are able to takedown any content for any reason, so you can nicely ask them to file takedown for poor edits like that.

I had thought of that. I'm very tempted to try and contact Adam Wan about this one...the edit seems kind of disrespectful to him, he might want it taken down.

abadbird said:
Disclaimer: I'm speaking generally. I haven't even looked at the referenced posts.

I mostly agree, excepting that a lot of "good" art from years ago hasn't aged well. What may have been well above a minimum quality threshold 8 years ago might not get approved today. Some old art may be bad by today's standards yet was good for its time. There's much value in preserving that, largely to "see how far we've come". Some things, though, are just too painful to look at now, IMO. Maybe they were never even decent. A green thumb would be needed to sort old weeds from decomposing flowers.

This edit was shit back then and it's even more shit now, it was a snub toward the origonal artist and a really horrible edit.

Did some digging around because I'm tired of watching this thread play out.

Yes, low-quality submissions are grandfathered if they were approved before our quality overhaul. However, the system is not "set up in such a way that it's impossible to give it a second look." Takedown requests are fairly straightforward and are often honored.

That's exactly how post #14094 (a similar edit) was removed, over 6 years after its upload.

I wondered: why only that post and not the one in question (post #14122)?

So I gathered the timestamps:

One might get the impression that the latter post was missed by the character owner who issued the takedown. But how? When searching `adam_wan` at the time of the takedown, all three posts appeared in succession. All three posts had their current character tags. Both edits were tagged with edit. post #14122's tag history shows that it has been a child post (no pun intended) of the original since 2010.

None of this makes sense until you check the deleted post's tag history. Apparently, it was not connected to the original at the time of the takedown. Whether the parent post removal was intentional or not is irrelevant. Would the character owner have seen the other edit if this one had been connected to the original? Who knows.

Obviously there are two possibilities for why post #14094 was removed but post #14122 has remained. Based on all of this information, we can guess how either possibility occurred.

• Possibility #1 - The character owner has never seen post #14122.
• post #14094 may have been directly linked to the character owner OR they stumbled upon it. The takedown followed shortly after.
• The character owner might not be the type to do vanity searches.
• Possibility #2 - The character owner has seen post #14122,
• yet they never issued a takedown for one reason or another.

Is this all confusing? I have great news - none of this matters!

If you've read through this entire ramble, you may have noticed a frequently repeated term: the character owner.

None of you are either character's owner.

Only the artist or the character owner(s) can request the takedown. We're not about to make decisions based on gossip and the hope that our actions align with the character owner's wishes.

If you are that concerned about this image, then contact the character owner rather than tell us what to do on their behalf.

Holy fucking shit. Happy holidays.

Roseroar said:
Some stuff just needs to be buried in a deep dark mine shaft and forgotten. >.<

Use your blacklist. Problem solved.

Knotty_Curls said:
Yes, low-quality submissions are grandfathered if they were approved before our quality overhaul.

Which occurred when? Sorry I'm not a E621 historian...before this thread I had no idea the site had even been around for 9+ years...never seen a post that old.

Knotty_Curls said:
However, the system is not "set up in such a way that it's impossible to give it a second look."

I meant in terms of reporting it as inferior quality, there's no option to ask for a second look in that regard. I was always aware that a takedown could be issued by the original artist...I even mention that in my last post.

Knotty_Curls said:
Stuff

So all that sleuthing and you're still not going to delete? If an similar edit was deleted by the artist why let this one remain? Seems like it just slipped under the artist's radar. That's like if I made an edit where I give a female character a horsedick, then the artist takes it down, then I make another edit where the character has an even bigger horsedick then you're like "well then, we'll just have to see how the artist feels about this second, larger horsedick. I can make no logical assumptions as to the artist's feelings on this issue." What?

But if you insist on doing things the hard and tedious way (this is E621 after all...is there another way?) then I supposed I'll oblige you. I've sent Adam Wan a note on FA asking him if he approves of this edit. We'll see how the artist feels about it.

Dyrone said:
I've sent Adam Wan a note on FA asking him if he approves of this edit. We'll see how the artist feels about it.

Let's hope he doesn't opt to nuke all his works like many other artists do in this situation.

Dyrone said:
Which occurred when? Sorry I'm not a E621 historian...before this thread I had no idea the site had even been around for 9+ years...never seen a post that old.

Well, fun fact? The number thjat represents a post, or a user is incremental. There are a lot of posts here :)

The first post that can be viewed is post #14 posted on Feb 10, 2007 :D

So all that sleuthing and you're still not going to delete? If an similar edit was deleted by the artist why let this one remain? Seems like it just slipped under the artist's radar.

Because artists are fickle creatures. Maybe one edit was made by a friend. Maybe one edit made him laugh. Maybe one edit he enjoyed.

We don't know. Also we don't know what was in the deleted post.

That's like if I made an edit where I give a female character a horsedick, then the artist takes it down, then I make another edit where the character has an even bigger horsedick then you're like "well then, we'll just have to see how the artist feels about this second, larger horsedick. I can make no logical assumptions as to the artist's feelings on this issue." What?

We can 'detective' a little. The comments say "If you're fapping to this more that you're fapping to (the original), then you suck and you can't even argue the drawn/real cop-out this time round." and "It's awwwright." The tags history shows that people have placed a number of tags on it, including it's_awwwright, and diaper.

Perhaps the "it's awwwright' meme's been forgotten? It's was a reference to a japanese comic where an infant was fucked by a grown man. It was rather gory.

So, I'd propose the original edit that was deleted was one that involved making the character from the original post even younger, or perhaps shopping in a younger character in some respect.

Thus, with this idea, it's not unreasonable to think that Adam Wan might disapprove of one edit but not the other, correct?

But if you insist on doing things the hard and tedious way (this is E621 after all...is there another way?) then I supposed I'll oblige you. I've sent Adam Wan a note on FA asking him if he approves of this edit. We'll see how the artist feels about it.

BlueDingo said:
Let's hope he doesn't opt to nuke all his works like many other artists do in this situation.

Well, since I"m doing detective work... let's see. Adam Wan's put in 6 take down requests over the years.

Well, that looks pretty straight forward to me.

He's probably going to ask for the edit to be taken down. Mission accomplished. I doubt he'll suddenly flip his table over one more. If you're being polite, perhaps you might want to look and see if there's anything else in Adam_Wan edit that might be objectionable or unauthorized?

Dyrone said:
Which occurred when? Sorry I'm not a E621 historian...before this thread I had no idea the site had even been around for 9+ years...never seen a post that old.

That brings up a good point. As far as I know, the grandfathering bit is only on our Uploading Guidelines. I wouldn't mind adding it to our Flagging Guidelines and wherever else it might be needed.

I meant in terms of reporting it as inferior quality, there's no option to ask for a second look in that regard.

If there is a legitimate concern over why a post wasn't deleted, I'd follow the same procedure in our Deletion FAQ thread.

Contact whoever approved it. If a questionable post was uploaded by a Contributor (automatic approval), contact staff. If staff uploaded it, ask the uploader; travel up the chain of command if necessary.

Trusted users should know quality standards. When it seems like that isn't the case, I welcome opportunities to get everybody on the same page.

Any concerns that focus on a post's content (extreme fetishes, etc.) are not legitimate and will probably be ignored.

Again, this only applies to posts that aren't grandfathered.

So all that sleuthing and you're still not going to delete? If an similar edit was deleted by the artist why let this one remain? Seems like it just slipped under the artist's radar. That's like if I made an edit where I give a female character a horsedick, then the artist takes it down, then I make another edit where the character has an even bigger horsedick then you're like "well then, we'll just have to see how the artist feels about this second, larger horsedick. I can make no logical assumptions as to the artist's feelings on this issue." What?

But if you insist on doing things the hard and tedious way (this is E621 after all...is there another way?) then I supposed I'll oblige you. I've sent Adam Wan a note on FA asking him if he approves of this edit. We'll see how the artist feels about it.

Pardon me if I'm getting the wrong impression here.

Do you think I'm annoyed that the artist was contacted? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post, but based on all of the evidence, I think there's no way he hadn't seen it before now. Even if I thought he hadn't seen it, I still wouldn't have deleted it, not because of any ill-will towards the artist but because that's not how we handle things around here. I am more than happy to undo past administration's mistakes, but it needs to be done properly.

Contacting him to remove all doubt is what OP should have done in the first place. Open communication and takedowns are effective enough. We don't need to rewrite our procedures for posts almost a decade old.

EDIT - this thread was made with the intent of getting it deleted, but bringing it up publicly has unintentionally created the opportunity for users to save it before the deed was done.

So, once again, just contact the artist next time. Making it public like this gave me the impression that you're not only concerned about the artist's feelings.

Knotty_Curls said:
Do you think I'm annoyed that the artist was contacted?

No, but I am. Seems like a lot of work to go through just to get a shitty edit deleted, let alone you never know how a random artist will react to being randomly contacted or if they're even still around to contact...the post is 9 years old. Luckily in this case this guy was quite easy to get ahold of and the image is deleted now.

Knotty_Curls said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post, but based on all of the evidence, I think there's no way he hadn't seen it before now.

Yes, I would say that wasn't clear. To me it seemed like you gave equal credence to the possibility that he either hadn't seen it, or he had seen it and didn't care. Given his history of asking for takedowns on other edits of his work my guess was that he hadn't seen it, because if he had he would have had it taken down. Clearly his decision on the matter shows that I was right.

Knotty_Curls said:
Making it public like this gave me the impression that you're not only concerned about the artist's feelings.

I really don't think the OP had a hidden agenda. A lot of people simply arn't aware of what procedures to follow when something goes wrong and they just end up making a forum thread because that's all they can think to do off the top of their head.

Dyrone said:
No, but I am. Seems like a lot of work to go through just to get a shitty edit deleted, let alone you never know how a random artist will react to being randomly contacted or if they're even still around to contact...the post is 9 years old. Luckily in this case this guy was quite easy to get ahold of and the image is deleted now.

Yes, I would say that wasn't clear. To me it seemed like you gave equal credence to the possibility that he either hadn't seen it, or he had seen it and didn't care. Given his history of asking for takedowns on other edits of his work my guess was that he hadn't seen it, because if he had he would have had it taken down. Clearly his decision on the matter shows that I was right.

Just to say, I draw sometimes. So does my best friend. Sometimes we goof off and edit eachother's stuff for lulz. I don't care if she posts still she's edited. If it was posted here, i'd laugh, because it's funny. Notice the trend with his take down requests: UNAUTHORIZED edit. Which suggests that there are AUTHORIZED edits as well.

Just because you were right NOW doesn't mean that you would always be right. c_c