Hey guys,

Just a QQ please.

I'm pretty sure I've seen users with records for not using a minimum of 4 tags on their upload, normally because they actually upload 3 tags and a rating.

Am I correct in thinking I've seen this, and that the rating tag doesn't actually count towards the 4 tag minimum?

If so, I can't actually see this stipulated in the rules anywhere (or Wiki as a whole). Am I being blind? Maybe it's worth adding it to prevent confusion for first-time uploaders?

Cheers.

WispTheHusky said:
Hey guys,

Just a QQ please.

I'm pretty sure I've seen users with records for not using a minimum of 4 tags on their upload, normally because they actually upload 3 tags and a rating.

Am I correct in thinking I've seen this, and that the rating tag doesn't actually count towards the 4 tag minimum?

If so, I can't actually see this stipulated in the rules anywhere (or Wiki as a whole). Am I being blind? Maybe it's worth adding it to prevent confusion for first-time uploaders?

Cheers.

Yes, ratings do not count as a tag, neither does the tagme tag.

DiceLovesBeingBlown said:
Yes, ratings do not count as a tag, neither does the tagme tag.

Awesome. Thought as much. Is that written anywhere? I can't seem to find it.

I know lots of tags are good, and I fully agree with tagging as much as possible, but it seems kinda harsh to "record" a user for doing something that isn't actually mentioned anywhere as being incorrect (again, unless I'm being blind).

Things like that can dissuade people from posting in the future under fear of being penalised. Wouldn't it be worth adding this as a clarification to the rules page?

WispTheHusky said:
Awesome. Thought as much. Is that written anywhere? I can't seem to find it.

I know lots of tags are good, and I fully agree with tagging as much as possible, but it seems kinda harsh to "record" a user for doing something that isn't actually mentioned anywhere as being incorrect (again, unless I'm being blind).

Things like that can dissuade people from posting in the future under fear of being penalised. Wouldn't it be worth adding this as a clarification to the rules page?

Huh. Could've sworn it was mentioned somewhere... but I can't find it either.

Either way, imho it wouldn't hurt to contact a mod to maybe discuss adding it to the rules

Ratings are ratings, tags are tags.

When you upload a post, there's a selector for the rating. Whereas tags are what you put in the tag box. And once you upload the post, note that the rating is not shown on the tag list. Wholly separate things, there's nothing that implies that ratings are tags.

Granted, some users (myself included) occasionally get those mixed up anyway and say things like 'tagged as explicit'. So there's that.

e621:rules said:

Tagging Abuse / Tagging Vandalism
Suggested Suspension Length: 3 days
This category includes:

• Failure to cite a minimum of 4 tags to an uploaded post

Right there.

Furrin_Gok said:
Right there.

That doesn't specifically state that ratings (and also tagme) don't count which is what this, conversation was about, it doesn't seem to be stated anywhere that those two aren't counted for the tag minimum.

darryus said:
That doesn't specifically state that ratings (and also tagme) don't count which is what this, conversation was about, it doesn't seem to be stated anywhere that those two aren't counted for the tag minimum.

Do we really have to be this pedantic to make it clear that "tagme" is not an acceptable tag? And that the rating, which is not shown in the tag field at any given time, is also not a tag?

NotMeNotYou said:
Do we really have to be this pedantic to make it clear that "tagme" is not an acceptable tag? And that the rating, which is not shown in the tag field at any given time, is also not a tag?

I'm not saying that it necessarily does, it's just that the question posed in the OP specifically mentioned...

...the rating tag doesn't actually count towards the 4 tag minimum? If so, I can't actually see this stipulated in the rules anywhere...

and the answer that Furrin Gok gave didn't really provide any information that hadn't already been established previously by other users' replies.

NotMeNotYou said:
Do we really have to be this pedantic to make it clear that "tagme" is not an acceptable tag? And that the rating, which is not shown in the tag field at any given time, is also not a tag?

You live in the country that label shirts 'do not iron while wearing shirt'. Your point is invalid.

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
You live in the country that label shirts 'do not iron while wearing shirt'. Your point is invalid.

I didn't know Nimmy lived in the United States of Lawsuits.

NotMeNotYou said:
Do we really have to be this pedantic to make it clear that "tagme" is not an acceptable tag?

No. Making the rules unnecessarily long only ensures that the users won't bother to read them.

...
I'll go ahead and add it to the tagme wiki, though. I doubt it'll do much good, but who knows.

Genjar said:
Ratings are ratings, tags are tags.

When you upload a post, there's a selector for the rating. Whereas tags are what you put in the tag box. And once you upload the post, note that the rating is not shown on the tag list. Wholly separate things, there's nothing that implies that ratings are tags.

Granted, some users (myself included) occasionally get those mixed up anyway and say things like 'tagged as explicit'. So there's that.

probably because while they dont appear on the tag list they can be edited manually in the same menu for imputing regular tags, they are also input as tags when it comes to searches..

NotMeNotYou said:
Do we really have to be this pedantic to make it clear that "tagme" is not an acceptable tag? And that the rating, which is not shown in the tag field at any given time, is also not a tag?

And it is not at all pedantic to state the exclusion of "tagme" in the tagging guide and rules as it is added to the same list as any other tag, and the wiki states nothing about treating it different then other tags. Mods may well be reported for abuse of their power if what was apparently violated is stated nowhere in the rules and when for all intents and purposes the user fulfilled the written rule of adding at least 4 tags.

Darou said:
probably because while they dont appear on the tag list they can be edited manually in the same menu for imputing regular tags, they are also input as tags when it comes to searches..

Just because they can be edited or added to the tag field doesn't mean they're treated as tags by the rules. The fact they work there is more of a necessity than anything else.

Also, "Failure to properly set the rating of your upload (https://e621.net/help/ratings)" is its own bullet point under Tagging Abuse.

Darou said:
And it is not at all pedantic to state the exclusion of "tagme" in the tagging guide and rules as it is added to the same list as any other tag, and the wiki states nothing about treating it different then other tags. Mods may well be reported for abuse of their power if what was apparently violated is stated nowhere in the rules and when for all intents and purposes the user fulfilled the written rule of adding at least 4 tags.

I mean, you can report anyone for anything, it's just part of the rules that staff has leeway and that the rules are explicitly stated to be not exhaustive.
The whole spiel of: "Note that the following guidelines are not exhaustive, and may not address all manner of offensive behavior. As such, the forum moderators shall have full discretion to address any behavior that they feel is inappropriate." Taken directly from the second paragraph of the Code of Conduct Introduction on the rules.

Darou said:
probably because while they dont appear on the tag list they can be edited manually in the same menu for imputing regular tags, they are also input as tags when it comes to searches..And it is not at all pedantic to state the exclusion of "tagme" in the tagging guide and rules as it is added to the same list as any other tag, and the wiki states nothing about treating it different then other tags. Mods may well be reported for abuse of their power if what was apparently violated is stated nowhere in the rules and when for all intents and purposes the user fulfilled the written rule of adding at least 4 tags.

If you can't read between the lines (ie, "Tagme means I don't want to add tags" and thus is 100% obviously not a tag), it's your own fault. Lucky you, the mods are lenient here: You only get a warning for messing up once, and as long as you can go six months without making the same mistake, you won't keep the neutral.