Personally I don't think you should since it's normal for them. I didn't see any reference to this issue in its wiki page either.
I would like to hear what you guys have to say before I start untagging posts.
Sorry if I used the wrong category for this post.

I made this exact same thread before, I've forgotten what was decided.
Glad I'm not the only one that wondered this.

Edit: https://e621.net/forum/show/212551
Found it! Here's the previous discussion if that helps, personally I think tagging ferals nude doesn't make much sense, anyway I gotta go I'll be back in a few.

Good question. It looks like the issue is still under contention. The admin ruling (Ratte and Knotty_Curls) is don't tag ferals as nude. But Genjar and BlueDingo point out correctly that nude ferals are still nude.

Personally I've been tagging nude characters as nude, whether they're anthro, feral or humanoid.

clothed_feral

Ratte said:
clothed_feral

But that does raise the question, should clothed anthros be tagged with clothed_feral? 🤔

Ferals are naturally nude, so tagging them as nude doesn't help anyone, similar to all_fours. This would just make it much harder for user to search what they want when majority of content is suddenly just from tag feral.

Mairo said:
But that does raise the question, should clothed anthros be tagged with clothed_feral? 樂

Ferals are naturally nude, so tagging them as nude doesn't help anyone, similar to all_fours. This would just make it much harder for user to search what they want when majority of content is suddenly just from tag feral.

Probably not, since they're anthros, not ferals.

Random said:
Probably not, since they're anthros, not ferals.

I do believe that was a joke.

leomole said:
Good question. It looks like the issue is still under contention. The admin ruling (Ratte and Knotty_Curls) is don't tag ferals as nude. But Genjar and BlueDingo point out correctly that nude ferals are still nude.

Personally I've been tagging nude characters as nude, whether they're anthro, feral or humanoid.

I've been doing the same when tagging a character as nude. Like you said, a nude character is nude regardless of their body type. To determine what tags I should add (nude, mostly_nude, partially_clothed, etc) I judge based upon the amount of clothing the character has (if any), how much of their body is covered, and what parts of the body are covered by said clothing.

There's no reason to tag ferals as nude since they're assumed to be nude by default. I might agree with tagging clothed_ferals with mostly_nude or bottomless if those apply, but the nude tag itself should only be for anthros, humans, humanoids, and taurs.

Feral clothes <- 34k results
Feral -clothes -nude <- 148k results
Feral -clothes nude <- 48k results
Nude <- 459k results

It's interesting that nude is perhaps already tagged a third of the time for this. But I don't see any point in tagging random ferals with nude. Nobody searching for nudity is looking for this post #1545810. A nude feral is just feral -clothed_feral

Doomguy666 said:
I made this exact same thread before, I've forgotten what was decided.
Glad I'm not the only one that wondered this.

Edit: https://e621.net/forum/show/212551
Found it! Here's the previous discussion if that helps, personally I think tagging ferals nude doesn't make much sense, anyway I gotta go I'll be back in a few.

I still stand by everything I said in that thread, tits and wine and all

I somewhat wish I could ask myself why I made that thread and didn't actively participate in the conversation, what the hell was I doing?
Anyway as I said I think tagging ferals with nude seems redundant if I look up feral I'm not expecting to see clothes and if I wanted to that's when I'd use clothed_feral.
For the most part it seemed to be resolved, to summarize ferals don't get tagged as nude but removing the nude tag from all feral posts would be a lot of work, and some stuff about gods, tits, and wine.

Exceptions are rarely good for tagging, and that one is no different.

Like I said in the other thread, it's an exception that cannot work in practice: users won't stop to think if something is 'nude by default', they just tag what they see.

What about other things, such as flora_fauna? Should those not be tagged as nude either, because plants don't usually wear clothes? What about animated objects? And does a nude human who transforms into feral stop being nude?

Tagging them as nude may be redundant, but giving records to users who don't remember all the exceptions and just tag what they see would be worse.

CrocoGator said:
Nobody searching for nudity is looking for this post #1545810.

Same can be said about any other safe-rated post. It's unlikely that anyone searching for nudity is looking for these either:
post #1479200 post #1401811

The only wrench in the works I can think of would be cosmiclife's arts. They often have ferals 'clothed' in underwear and 'unlocked' to nude later after patreon hits a certain threshold. Other than that, I can't think of very many examples where it would matter to have a nude_feral tag.

I guess you could consider shaven ferals nude. Is there a tag for that? Shaved ferals sounds like, and probably is a fetish to some.

Seems like we only have shaved -- which implies some shaving, but not necessarily total shaving. Most images seem to have partial shaving.

Sorrowless said:
I guess you could consider shaven ferals nude. Is there a tag for that? Shaved ferals sounds like, and probably is a fetish to some.

It's apparently the creator of ozy and millie, and heavenly nostrils has that particular fetish.

Genjar said:
Exceptions are rarely good for tagging, and that one is no different.

Like I said in the other thread, it's an exception that cannot work in practice: users won't stop to think if something is 'nude by default', they just tag what they see.

I can agree on the notion that less exceptions is good. However like I said earlier, all fours is similarly excluded with ferals, because by default they are always on all fours.
It's extremely rare to see clothing on feral character excluding some hair decoration because there's no traditional clothing that would fit the character, thus it makes more sense to only tag exceptions rather than everything under the tag.
post #88044

Mairo said:
I can agree on the notion that less exceptions is good. However like I said earlier, all fours is similarly excluded with ferals, because by default they are always on all fours.

And yet, there's thousands of feral posts that are tagged as all fours. Not to mention that it's getting implicated from doggystyle. Even if that's unimplicated, who's going to clean those and keep it clean? all_fours feral -anthro -humanoid -human finds over 5400 posts, and it's no doubt also tagged for many anthro_on_feral, etc.

Same goes for nude: it's not worth the time to try to enforce such exception, for minimal benefit. And punishing users who are tagging nude characters as nude, or ferals as all four, is not something that I can agree with. Because those are such easy mistakes to make.

Genjar said:
And yet, there's thousands of feral posts that are tagged as all fours. Not to mention that it's getting implicated from doggystyle. Even if that's unimplicated, who's going to clean those and keep it clean? all_fours feral -anthro -humanoid -human finds over 5400 posts, and it's no doubt also tagged for many anthro_on_feral, etc.

You're kinda arguing "are"s and we're all arguing "ought"s. You're saying that feral posts 'are' getting tagged with nude or whatever, but like, we know, shit gets mistagged all the time, we're saying whether or not it 'ought' to be tagged. Dickgirls getting tagged as female isn't evidence that dickgirls should be tagged as females.

What would the advantage of tagging ferals with nude? I can't think of a single reason that feral (sans like feral yoshis or other similar extreme edge cases) should be tagged as nude. Especially since we have clothed_feral what would be the point of having both tags?

Also I feel like the case with ferals getting tagged with all_fours is mostly because people are mistagging that rather than quadruped.

darryus said:
You're kinda arguing "are"s and we're all arguing "ought"s.

On e6 these are related concepts. One of the reasons for TWYS is it allows tagging by knowledgeable users AND naive newcomers. If most people people tag feature X as tag X that's a good argument for defining tag X as feature X. Knotty_Curls has a good comment about this that I can't find at the moment.

What I get from this is that all four and nude shouldn't be tagged to quadroped ferals in most circumstances and that it's not a big deal if it happens.

I haven't tagged nude on ferals historically for most of the reasons stated, but it really would be so much simpler if we did.

I don't understand why it would be difficult to go back through and simply remove the nude tag from feral posts?

Step 1: search for "feral solo"
Step 2: do a mass removal of the nude tag from that search.

This would help the problem because it would reinforce to users that the nude tag is not supposed to be used on ferals....because as it stands now when you do a search like that and get 300 frickin' pages it would be easy for one to assume that tagging nude on ferals is not only a standard practice, but even an expected one.

Or do you guys even have the capacity to mass edit?

Dyrone said:
I don't understand why it would be difficult to go back through and simply remove the nude tag from feral posts?

Step 1: search for "feral solo"
Step 2: do a mass removal of the nude tag from that search.

This would help the problem because it would reinforce to users that the nude tag is not supposed to be used on ferals....because as it stands now when you do a search like that and get 300 frickin' pages it would be easy for one to assume that tagging nude on ferals is not only a standard practice, but even an expected one.

Or do you guys even have the capacity to mass edit?

Normal users can only tag 150 posts in an hour and ferals as nude isn't really a huge deal, at least compared to some other things, like posts that are either missing essential tags (for example there are 25k posts completely lacking any gender tags and over 136k posts lacking form tags) and tonnes of other mistagged posts.

Dyrone said:
I don't understand why it would be difficult to go back through and simply remove the nude tag from feral posts?

Step 1: search for "feral solo"
Step 2: do a mass removal of the nude tag from that search.

This would help the problem because it would reinforce to users that the nude tag is not supposed to be used on ferals....because as it stands now when you do a search like that and get 300 frickin' pages it would be easy for one to assume that tagging nude on ferals is not only a standard practice, but even an expected one.

Or do you guys even have the capacity to mass edit?

Because it's not that simple. You may have non-feral characters in an image with a feral who are also nude. Or you may have a clothed_feral and a nude anthro.

nude feral solo could be done that way, but then, even on the first page of that, there are several characters here that I wouodl say are not even feral and thus, SHOULD be nude:

post #1562172 post #1560269 post #1560037 post #1559892 post #1555217 post #1554449

SnowWolf said:
Because it's not that simple. You may have non-feral characters in an image with a feral who are also nude. Or you may have a clothed_feral and a nude anthro.

nude feral solo could be done that way, but then, even on the first page of that, there are several characters here that I wouodl say are not even feral and thus, SHOULD be nude:

post #1562172 post #1560269 post #1560037 post #1559892 post #1555217 post #1554449

How are the ponies not feral?

Furrin_Gok said:
How are the ponies not feral?

I guess that their torsos and necks are a bit on the anthropomorphic side, they're still probably feral though maybe just semi-anthro as well

Furrin_Gok said:
How are the ponies not feral?

Honestly, look at them? Don't look at them thinking "that's a pony" think of them as a animal.

A human can rotate our arm at the elbow -- letting us turn our forarm. Horses cannot rotate their lower leg.

A human arm is free moving from the shoulder joint downward, while a horse's upper arm bone is attached to it's chest by skin and muscle.

This image shows equine anatomy. The bone at the shoulder from 12-13 is a human's upper arm. 13-14 is a human's lower arm. Everything below that is various handbones.

Mr Blue pony has his arms--arms-- folded behind back behind his head. That is beyond impossible for a feral horse.

miss redhead is leaning back onto her elbows. Also impossible for horse anatomy. Her neck and shoulders are basically humanoid. and yeah, she's got her legs up, but:

post #1562578 post #1544310 post #532858 post #1038546

basically most everything in on_back legs_up female pinup

the biggest differences is that she doesn't have hands or feet, and has a thickbodied chibi look.

To me? she's not feral. She's anthro. semi anthro maybe.

on_back legs_up female ferals : post #961115 post #1532969 post #1494784

There's always soem flexibility -- post #1494596 is feral, despite the hyena's shoulder positions.

But if red headed pony got up and started walking around like this:

post #1561669 post #1560888 post #1560466 post #1559453

I wouldn't bat an eye. -- ditto for Mr Blue too.

Furrin_Gok said:
How are the ponies not feral?

Neck and shoulders, like SnowWolf explained. Plus the head shape. The anatomy is nothing like an actual pony.

The tan one is solidly anthro. The blue one seems more ambiguous to me, because the head is closer to feral.

SnowWolf said:
nude feral solo could be done that way, but then, even on the first page of that, there are several characters here that I wouodl say are not even feral and thus, SHOULD be nude:

post #1562172 post #1560269 post #1560037 post #1559892 post #1555217 post #1554449

I think you're completely missing the point here...this has nothing to do with body type, it has everything to do with what people expect. Do you expect a charizard to have clothes? No, so tagging it with "nude" is redundant. Do you expect an anthro or even semi-anthro pony to be clothed? No...they're not clothed in the series, so again a "nude" tag is redundant. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not the feral creature has an anthro body type.

Would doing a mass edit like that be perfect? No, but nothing in life is and if you only allow yourself to do something if the result is 100% perfect then you'll never do anything.

You could further reinforce the search by making it "feral solo nude -clothes".

Dyrone said:
Would doing a mass edit like that be perfect? No, but nothing in life is and if you only allow yourself to do something if the result is 100% perfect then you'll never do anything.

You could further reinforce the search by making it "feral solo nude -clothes".

A brazen mass tag edit like this could potentially add a lot more work than it would be to just do it manually in the first place, if you really want it fixed do it yourself, if not, leave it, someone'll probably get around to it eventually.

Dyrone said:
I think you're completely missing the point here...this has nothing to do with body type, it has everything to do with what people expect. Do you expect a charizard to have clothes?

Do you expect any pokemon to have clothes, regardless of the form? What about a humanoid robot? Fire elemental? Living vehicle? Human-shaped goo? Humanoid flora fauna? I could think of numerous other examples, but the point is that we don't tag things by expectations. Because tagging by expectations is subjective.

And tagging something based on what it 'normally' wears (or doesn't wear) is bad, because the basis of our whole tag system is to 'tag what you see, not what you know'.

Dyrone said:
I think you're completely missing the point here...this has nothing to do with body type,

This is literally about our body type tags. we've only got like half a dozen of them. this has EVERYTHING to do with body type.

it has everything to do with what people expect.

Tag what you see, yes. I would not see ferals there.

Do you expect a charizard to have clothes? No, so tagging it with "nude" is redundant.

Nope. Though I now want to see a charizard in a hawaiian shirt :) I think that'd be cute!

But what I also don't expect from a charizard is a dick flopping around. *shrugs* much less, apparently running happily through a frield, grabbing his tiddy, and cumming spectacularly. Thankfully, life is not really in the habit of conforming to expectations.

I do somewhat see you point though: But in that same respect, Daffy Duck, bugs bunny, foghorn leghorn are all very much anthro, but I would not expect them to be wearing clothes either. Expectation of clothing use is not determination of if the nude tag should or shouldn't be used, nor is it determination of if something is anthro or feral.

Do you expect an anthro or even semi-anthro pony to be clothed? No...they're not clothed in the series, so again a "nude" tag is redundant. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not the feral creature has an anthro body type.

But in that same respect: dick flopping around.

But even more so: Tag what you see, not what you know. If I've never seen MLP, then these characters look like normal anthros. And nude is applicable.

If I made a show/series where every character was explicitly nude all the time, then nude would STILL apply to them, even if they're not 'usually' nude.

Would doing a mass edit like that be perfect? No, but nothing in life is and if you only allow yourself to do something if the result is 100% perfect then you'll never do anything.

Honey. I have a little bit of experience with Tag implications, aliases and mass editing.

There are some situations where you alias/imply first, then clean up.
There are some situations where you clean up first, then alias/implicate.
There are some situations where you don't do anything, because the project is so damn big, it'll never be finished.
There are some situations where you do it anyway even though it'll mess shit up because the mess is better than the problem. Those are rare though.

This situation basically risks untagging nude characters. That's pretty not okay.

You could further reinforce the search by making it "feral solo nude -clothes".

That's a good search -- assuming people do tag their clothing properly. There are over 14,000 search results for that, though. feral nude has over 50,000 posts. So... your search there would be a good *start* to this project, but there's still a LOT more ground to cover, and a lot of it will have to be performed by hand.

It's still unclear to me why such a major clean-up project would even be necessary in the first place. Someone doesn't like seeing ferals when they search for nude? They can alter the search to exclude the feral tag. Or if they want something like nude_anthro_on_feral, then they can simply exclude clothed.

I think the best thing to do would be to just add "it's unnecessary to tag ferals as nude" to the wiki, then forget about the whole thing. They'll still keep getting tagged as such regardless, and it won't affect anyone's site experience beyond having to learn to use the search-function better.

SnowWolf said:
Honestly, look at them? Don't look at them thinking "that's a pony" think of them as a animal.

A human can rotate our arm at the elbow -- letting us turn our forarm. Horses cannot rotate their lower leg.

A human arm is free moving from the shoulder joint downward, while a horse's upper arm bone is attached to it's chest by skin and muscle.

This image shows equine anatomy. The bone at the shoulder from 12-13 is a human's upper arm. 13-14 is a human's lower arm. Everything below that is various handbones.

Mr Blue pony has his arms--arms-- folded behind back behind his head. That is beyond impossible for a feral horse.

miss redhead is leaning back onto her elbows. Also impossible for horse anatomy. Her neck and shoulders are basically humanoid. and yeah, she's got her legs up, but:

post #1562578 post #1544310 post #532858 post #1038546

basically most everything in on_back legs_up female pinup

the biggest differences is that she doesn't have hands or feet, and has a thickbodied chibi look.

To me? she's not feral. She's anthro. semi anthro maybe.

on_back legs_up female ferals : post #961115 post #1532969 post #1494784

There's always soem flexibility -- post #1494596 is feral, despite the hyena's shoulder positions.

You're thinking of What You Know here, reffering specifically to feral equine anatomy only. If you gave the horse frog legs, would it suddenly become anthro? No, it's still a form of feral legs. A dog is able to bend its forelegs at the knee (Yes, their ankle too, but that looks completely different) to position the lower leg over its head. What one specific feral species can or can't do doesn't matter, it's what ferals in general can or can't do.
It becomes a question of the shoulder, which the blue pony's moves in a way that only more anthro animals, such as primates. The red haired pony however, only has her forelegs moved like the hyena's. Not normal for a horse, but still possible in feral behavior.

Furrin_Gok said:
You're thinking of What You Know here, reffering specifically to feral equine anatomy only. If you gave the horse frog legs, would it suddenly become anthro? No, it's still a form of feral legs. A dog is able to bend its forelegs at the knee (Yes, their ankle too, but that looks completely different) to position the lower leg over its head. What one specific feral species can or can't do doesn't matter, it's what ferals in general can or can't do.
It becomes a question of the shoulder, which the blue pony's moves in a way that only more anthro animals, such as primates. The red haired pony however, only has her forelegs moved like the hyena's. Not normal for a horse, but still possible in feral behavior.

... i could go on at length here, discussing TWYS/TWYK, the fact that as far as I know, very few quadrupedal ferals can press their limbs that far back, discussions of cartoony leaniencies for the sake of art, etc.

But ultimately, as I've said and genjar said: Her head and shoulders do not look like a feral animal's. nothing about her posture says feral except the shape of the back legs which would belong just as easily on an anthro.

Furrin_Gok said:
You're thinking of What You Know here, reffering specifically to feral equine anatomy only. If you gave the horse frog legs, would it suddenly become anthro? No, it's still a form of feral legs. A dog is able to bend its forelegs at the knee (Yes, their ankle too, but that looks completely different) to position the lower leg over its head. What one specific feral species can or can't do doesn't matter, it's what ferals in general can or can't do.
It becomes a question of the shoulder, which the blue pony's moves in a way that only more anthro animals, such as primates. The red haired pony however, only has her forelegs moved like the hyena's. Not normal for a horse, but still possible in feral behavior.

Yeeeeah, you're kinda getting to the point where literally everything becomes 'tag what you know'. Tagging wolf vs coyote is impossible without knowing what those species look like and being able to pick out an id specific features. Being able to give an explanation for what specifically makes something look anthro/feral doesn't make it 'tag what you know' more than literally anything else.

Genjar said:
Do you expect any pokemon to have clothes, regardless of the form? What about a humanoid robot? Fire elemental? Living vehicle? Human-shaped goo? Humanoid flora fauna? I could think of numerous other examples, but the point is that we don't tag things by expectations.

I agree, ferals and anthros and flora_fauna and pokemon should just be tagged nude if they're nude.

Genjar said:
I think the best thing to do would be to just add "it's unnecessary to tag ferals as nude" to the wiki

And yeah it's not a critical tag for ferals so I think this is the best solution. I'll do it.