Aliasing holding_arms → arm_grab
Link to alias

Reason:

Redundant.

EDIT: The tag alias holding_arms -> arm_grab (forum #264542) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.

Usually holding_X is used when a character is holding their own body part(s) (like holding_arm) and X_grab when a character is holding another character's body part(s).

It seems like holding_arms is an exception, since all posts should be using arm_grab, so +1.

-1

post #997742

I found and correctly tagged it with holding_arms just for this thread.

abadbird said:
-1

post #997742

I found and correctly tagged it with holding_arms just for this thread.

That should be crossed_arms, not holding_arms.

-1
I'm not in favor of breaking a standard, even though the current posts would fit.

How about a disambiguation instead? Most are arm_grab, but it could easily be tagged for crossed_arms. Might also overlap with grabbing_from_behind.

Also, I think we have a different tag for this type of hold, though I don't remember what it is called (thought it was arm_hold, but that's just another tag that's a mess):
post #1554857

Genjar said:
-1
I'm not in favor of breaking a standard, even though the current posts would fit.

How about a disambiguation instead? Most are arm_grab, but it could easily be tagged for crossed_arms. Might also overlap with grabbing_from_behind.

Also, I think we have a different tag for this type of hold, though I don't remember what it is called (thought it was arm_hold, but that's just another tag that's a mess):
post #1554857

Breaking a standard? How do you mean?
Huh, Furrypickle put See: arm_grab as it's wiki back in 2014.
A disambiguation could work with a concise and clearly written wiki, which I don't think I'm up for writing, head not good for much currently.
Did a bit of googling and the closest I could find with the terms I used was a double-underhook (see here) except that it's not from behind. I'm sure there's a name for it, I just can't seem to find it.

LurkingLupinoyd said:
Breaking a standard? How do you mean?
Huh, Furrypickle put See: arm_grab as it's wiki back in 2014.

That looks like it was probably written before that standard was determined. The usage was a lot more messy back then if I remember right and distinctions weren't made until a discussion tackled all of them to form them into a system that made sense of it all between grab/hold/carrying/etc. 2014 seems too early for that though, so I suspect that wiki redirect predates the system which was decided on later. I think if I'd written it after that discussion, it would have been filled out with more information based on it. But idk.

Not to add any complications to this, but it looks like a lot of the holding-onto-own-arm usage is under the holding_arm tag (singular), with a few lonely ones under arm_hold. I'd suspect aliasing arm_hold to --> holding_arm would make sense.

The plural holding_arms discussed here looks messier. And I can kind of understand why: it's not easily done to hold both of your own arms. The logistical difficulty (depending on body type) really invites the interpretation that someone else is doing the grabbing for them, which is why you see the standard being broken. At least, I think that's what is happening with it. And even though we found a couple that didn't fit arm_grab under there, the most of the usage does fit arm_grab really consistently. And especially when a few holding-own-arm gets mistagged as arm_grab anyways, I'm not convinced it would add much messiness for the rare one that does creep in if it were aliased from such an underused tag as holding_arms.

Idk, I could see arguments for both options. I am just not convinced the disambiguation maintenance would add much benefit in this case knowing that the arm_grab tag needs a tidy now and then regardless for the exact same reason. So it might be worth taking the rare hit on this one.

ETA: @Genjar and @LurkingLupinoyd, I think I may have found the tag for holds like this
post #1692446 post #1554857
might be full_nelson ? at least based on usage, a lot of similar holds are under that tag. Though some of the uses might not be exactly the same as the way it's used in the standard wrestling move...the concept does seem to be there though.

furrypickle said:
That looks like it was probably written before that standard was determined. The usage was a lot more messy back then if I remember right and distinctions weren't made until a discussion tackled all of them to form them into a system that made sense of it all between grab/hold/carrying/etc. 2014 seems too early for that though, so I suspect that wiki redirect predates the system which was decided on later. I think if I'd written it after that discussion, it would have been filled out with more information based on it. But idk.

Not to add any complications to this, but it looks like a lot of the holding-onto-own-arm usage is under the holding_arm tag (singular), with a few lonely ones under arm_hold. I'd suspect aliasing arm_hold to --> holding_arm would make sense.

The plural holding_arms discussed here looks messier. And I can kind of understand why: it's not easily done to hold both of your own arms. The logistical difficulty (depending on body type) really invites the interpretation that someone else is doing the grabbing for them, which is why you see the standard being broken. At least, I think that's what is happening with it. And even though we found a couple that didn't fit arm_grab under there, the most of the usage does fit arm_grab really consistently. And especially when a few holding-own-arm gets mistagged as arm_grab anyways, I'm not convinced it would add much messiness for the rare one that does creep in if it were aliased from such an underused tag as holding_arms.

Idk, I could see arguments for both options. I am just not convinced the disambiguation maintenance would add much benefit in this case knowing that the arm_grab tag needs a tidy now and then regardless for the exact same reason. So it might be worth taking the rare hit on this one.

ETA: @Genjar and @LurkingLupinoyd, I think I may have found the tag for holds like this
post #1692446 post #1554857
might be full_nelson ? at least based on usage, a lot of similar holds are under that tag. Though some of the uses might not be exactly the same as the way it's used in the standard wrestling move...the concept does seem to be there though.

I found another tag that covers around 18 of the posts under holding_arms, it's prison_guard_position.

Easiest/most secure double-hold for your own arms that I can find is grabbing the opposite wrist while overlapping forearms, upper arms are generally too thick for a good self-grab, and I don't see any of that under this tag.

Yeah, full_nelson is probably as close we'll get for those. Even though they don't all have the neck-press element, it's close enough.

Otherwise, sounds good! (I think, the cold weather aches are making concentration difficult)

abadbird said:
-1

post #997742

I found and correctly tagged it with holding_arms just for this thread.

MissChu said:
That should be crossed_arms, not holding_arms.

This is a small part of why I don't bother with the forums much anymore. Some people have their heads so far up their butts to "win" non-arguments that they are blinded to what's in front of them. It is both crossed_arms and holding_arms. By the way, nice mistag from deleting holding_arms. Bravo.

Holding/grabbing with hands = hand is grasping something, fingers curled around it such that (skin/fur/etc) texture provides gripping friction and muscle tension can squeeze in place.

Crossed arms/legs = limbs intersect each other, making an X shape.

These concepts should be barely more difficult to master than getting out of bed each day. See you guys in another month?
______

Did you guys consider that some of the holding_arms mistags may exist because the tag had no proper examples and no wiki? When tagging, people will often check a tag's meaning by searching it. If every example is incorrect, then less informed taggers (99.9% of taggers) have an almost zero percent chance of following the correct standard (i.e., *_grab/holding_*).

Moreover, the grab/holding standard as it stands will always produce mistags because, when translating English words to taggable concepts, grab/hold describe the same thing.

You could, you know, clean up the tag (52 posts atm), populate it with correct examples (10+), maybe write a simple descriptive wiki, and see what happens instead of just throwing the tag in the garbage without trying anything.

holding_arms wiki still just
"See: arm_grab"

I see holding_arm wiki is more detailed,

post #1255604 post #1108182

Used to denote a character holding their own arm(s) in an image. Not to be confused with arm grab.

I can think of two routes to go
1) alias holding_arms TO holding_arm
or
2) alias holding_arms to holding_arms_(disambiguation)

I think i prefer holding_arms -> holding_arm
(holding_arm wiki covers both singular and plural arm(s) )

The tag alias holding_arms -> arm_grab (forum #264542) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.